In the interest of Public Safety, it is time to ban meat forks [Archive]

Don Corleone

07-18-2007, 13:51

I know how many Orgahs feel that anything that could potentially be used as a weapon (guns, knives, bats) should be banned outright, since we don't want people using weapons to defend themselves. Well, here, from Texas, we have a new threat to our dysfunctional utopia.... meat forks. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289582,00.html)

Get this, she wasn't even defending herself. She actually stopped a criminal from sexually assaulting a 3rd party. Shame on her! If this isn't illegal, it should be. She should have done the right thing... gone inside, called the police and waited the 40 minutes for them to arrive to give a statement. I'm sure the 7 year old getting assaulted would have been happier under these circumstances. And what about the rights of the poor helpless child she stabbed with the fork? (The assailant was 17... I always love how when it comes to making decisions like having an abortion, a 12 year old is a grown woman, but when it comes to taking responsibility for those decisions, poof, all those up to age 21 become 'helpless children').

20 years for the woman and an all-out ban on meat forks, I say! We can't have people getting involved.

Gregoshi

07-18-2007, 14:04

Real heroes cry "Spoon!"

Strike For The South

07-18-2007, 14:11

Only in TEXAS. I live in the greatest state. GO TEXAS. GO COWBOYS

Sir Moody

07-18-2007, 14:34

Don Corleone

07-18-2007, 14:43

Husar

07-18-2007, 15:42

Well, the 17 year old guy probabl had a bad childhood and stabbing him with a meatfork in the butt is against his human rights because it's humiliating, she should've called the cops and given the 17 year old the meatfork so that a trigger happy cop can shoot him.:dizzy2:

Lemur

07-18-2007, 17:34

Could a brother get a link?

Odin

07-18-2007, 18:12

I think she would have been prosecuted in the People's Republic of Massachusetts.

Now now Don....

How else could we measure socialist public policy if we didnt have Massachusetts? Heck just today we are revamping the Auto insurance industry in MA, no more state regulated pricing, we actually are getting a semi consumer based market driven competition laden policy.

Well with some restrictions of course... You know how socialism is, yes you have options its just preselected for you.

But have no fear, she would get a fair trial here Don... I mean its Boston and she is african american, we have so few of them left to blame for our woes she would be welcome with open arms.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by Odin, are his own and are meant in jest in reply to Don Corleone only. Supposed intent, personal offense, and any other ridiculous BS that you become afflicted with by reading this post is merely a symptom of your thought processes, and not necessarily a result of the intent of the original poster.

Banquo's Ghost

07-18-2007, 18:33

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by Odin, are his own and are meant in jest in reply to Don Corleone only. Supposed intent, personal offense, and any other ridiculous BS that you become afflicted with by reading this post is merely a symptom of your thought processes, and not necessarily a result of the intent of the original poster.

:laugh4:

___________________
1. No laughing

:embarassed: :lipsrsealed2:

Husar

07-18-2007, 18:47

Could a brother get a link?
This one (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289582,00.html) is in the first post already. ~;)

KafirChobee

07-18-2007, 19:06

So, they are prosecuting the woman and her son for rescueing a 7 year old from a possible rapist? Or, is the supposition that she would be prosecuted elsewhere? Like Massachusetts or another Blues state? That's quite a leap.

Or, do we all assume that any laws restricting the use and/or selling of guns is bad? That by maintaining records that track weapons is somehow an afront to our personal freedom and will eventually lead to the banning of selling combat knives and even Bar-B-Q forks.

Quite a premise. Goes well with the ATF's attitude that States do not have the right to investigate arms dealers in other States simply because weapons sold in one were used during the commitment of a crime in the other (regardless of the number of times a dealers weapons show up).

Still, good for the lady taking action. Many wouldn't have been bothered - though the screams of a child would prompt most to do something.

Lemur

07-18-2007, 21:32

So, they are prosecuting the woman and her son for rescueing a 7 year old from a possible rapist? Or, is the supposition that she would be prosecuted elsewhere? Like Massachusetts or another Blues state? That's quite a leap.
No, it certainly doesn't sound like they're being prosecuted.

"They were citizens that jumped in, most definitely, and did a good deed," Joe Harn, a spokesman for the Garland Police Department, told MyFOXdfw.com. "These people are heroes."

I guess Don is jokingly suggesting is that (a) nobody but Republicans believe in self-defense or defending the weak, and (b) nanny-state liberals will now want to ban meat forks, 'cause that's just how they are.

I hear the next National Review cruise is looking for comedians ...

Don Corleone

07-18-2007, 22:01

No, it certainly doesn't sound like they're being prosecuted.

"They were citizens that jumped in, most definitely, and did a good deed," Joe Harn, a spokesman for the Garland Police Department, told MyFOXdfw.com. "These people are heroes."

I guess Don is jokingly suggesting is that (a) nobody but Republicans believe in self-defense or defending the weak, and (b) nanny-state liberals will now want to ban meat forks, 'cause that's just how they are.

I hear the next National Review cruise is looking for comedians ...

Moi? :clown: Three points for working in the National Review cruise, though, mon amis.

To my credit, I never linked Republicans w/ self-defense or Democrats with Nanny-stateism. I think both parties have plenty of the lattter, not so much of the former. I can see members of both parties clamoring to hold hearings on reducing the threat from these new 'weapons of NVM* destruction'.

*NVM=not very much

Lemur

07-18-2007, 22:05

Then my apologies for mis-reading your original post. I retract my partisan aspersions!

Goofball

07-18-2007, 23:02

You're not sliding far enough down your slippery straw-slope there, Don. After reading of this shocking incident, I, as a card-carrying lefty, demand not that we ban meat forks, but that we ban meat. That's going right to the root of the problem. Without meat, there wouldn't be any meat forks.

Problem solved.

Oh, and the mother should be sentenced to 1000 hours of community service cleaning the masturbation receptacles in the sex-offender wing of the nearest state pen.

Don Corleone

07-19-2007, 00:56

KukriKhan

07-19-2007, 01:08

I hate these stories - they never tell you what happened to the chicken being barbequed.

Did it burn? Was the fork held as evidence? If not, did she wash it before returning to the bar-b-q? Did the 7-year old eat with his rescuers?

What was the side dish?

Bah! Reporters.

(apologies to AII; just kiddin' ol buddy)

Don Corleone

07-19-2007, 01:11

Real heroes cry "Spoon!"

I understand the battle cry was "Fork you, pal, you're done".

Gregoshi

07-19-2007, 01:35

I ain't goin' there Don. That's why I went in the much safer "spoon" direction.

Crazed Rabbit

07-19-2007, 01:46

ive always been of the opinion weapons which have one purpose should be banned, ie Guns and Swords - im hevaily anti-weapons yet i carry a Mutipurpose tool which includes a very nasty knife blade (used to trim and cut wires) - its a tool some people misuse it but it wasnt meant to be used as an offensive weapon. A ban would be Stupid.

Ah, the anti-self defense crowd. Why don't you get a wire cutter tool on that instead of a knife? I trust then that you don't want the police carrying even a night stick?

Only in TEXAS. I live in the greatest state. GO TEXAS. GO COWBOYS

Which state can you carry a gun on your hip in plain sight; Washington or Texas? ~;p

That by maintaining records that track weapons is somehow an afront to our personal freedom and will eventually has lead to the banning of selling combat knives

Corrected;
Certain types of knives have been banned because of stupid ninnies.

CR

Seamus Fermanagh

07-19-2007, 03:40

Which state can you carry a gun on your hip in plain sight; Washington or Texas? ~;p

Virginia. And we're a commonwealth, not a pauncy "state." :wiseguy:

Crazed Rabbit

07-19-2007, 04:01

Bah! We were named after the first president, not by some old king's soldiers! What other state can say that?

CR

Lemur

07-19-2007, 04:05

By the way, question for the two of you... I never once mentioned Left, Democrat, Liberal or Socialist. The two of you felt the need to defend yourselves against charges I hadn't leveled. Freudian slip? ~:doh:
And when do you plan to stop beating your wife?

Let's face it, Don, the meme you were mining -- self-defense will be outlawed by nanny-state wimps -- is an old one in the Limbaugh/Coulter sphere. You did not specifically mention political castes, and I was in error thinking you were going there, but please. It's a bit precious to lay out the familiar framework, omit a key word, and then pounce on those who respond as having revealed the bias that dare not speak its name.

I love ya, Don, but this is a sissy punch.

And yes, I will freely admit that while I am not and never will be a Democrat, I positively loathe what the Republican party has become.

Gregoshi

07-19-2007, 04:10

Wasn't it Abraham Lincoln who once said "Fork scores, and seven rears ago..."

Fragony

07-19-2007, 09:58

Can't we just ban sexual assaulters? Over here she would be so screwed.

Sir Moody

07-19-2007, 16:46

Ah, the anti-self defense crowd. Why don't you get a wire cutter tool on that instead of a knife? I trust then that you don't want the police carrying even a night stick?

Im against citizens carrying weapons of self defence (and the tool i carry came with the knife blade not a wire cutting tool and since i allready have a good tool i dont need to go looking for another one just to get rid of the knife).
Im all for arming our Coppers to the teath as long as they are trained how to use the weapons effectively (which i havent seen much evidence of)

Goofball

07-19-2007, 16:52

Hey, for all your griping Goofy, my master plan worked. This kinder, gentler Backroom gets dull at times. I long for the good ole days of ideological warfare over Kerry appearing in a Bunny Suit for the cameras. I start this thread and here we are, Lemur armed to the teeth and you out of retirement.... :laugh4:

I came up with this thread on a coffee break. And frankly, there's plenty of truth to it. Note, I'm not partitioning Democrat/Republican or Left/Right. As I said to Lemur, you can find the 'knee-jerk' let's-ban-it types in either party.

By the way, question for the two of you... I never once mentioned Left, Democrat, Liberal or Socialist. The two of you felt the need to defend yourselves against charges I hadn't leveled. Freudian slip? ~:doh:

C'mon Don. I thought you would realize that as a lefty, I don't believe in my or anybody else's right to defend themselves against anything. Hence, you are clearly mistaken in your charge of me defending myself. :beam:

(BTW, go have a look here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1614083#post1614083 to see what I was doing on my retirement. I almost hesitated to post the pic because I was afraid my fellow lefties might stamp "no dessert" on my ration card after seeing it.)

Seamus Fermanagh

07-19-2007, 17:21

C'mon Don. I thought you would realize that as a lefty, I don't believe in my or anybody else's right to defend themselves against anything. Hence, you are clearly mistaken in your charge of me defending myself. :beam:

(BTW, go have a look here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1614083#post1614083 to see what I was doing on my retirement. I almost hesitated to post the pic because I was afraid my fellow lefties might stamp "no dessert" on my ration card after seeing it.)

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: Well turned.

Seamus Fermanagh

07-19-2007, 17:28

And when do you plan to stop beating your wife?

Let's face it, Don, the meme you were mining -- self-defense will be outlawed by nanny-state wimps -- is an old one in the Limbaugh/Coulter sphere. You did not specifically mention political castes, and I was in error thinking you were going there, but please. It's a bit precious to lay out the familiar framework, omit a key word, and then pounce on those who respond as having revealed the bias that dare not speak its name.

I love ya, Don, but this is a sissy punch.

....and Bush and Company waltzed right into the trap laid for them by Wilson, Plame, Fitzgerald et. al (though a lot of my right wing radio folks still seem to want to argue this for some reason :inquisitive: :dizzy: ). It's all part of the glorious game of modern political discussion.

And yes, I will freely admit that while I am not and never will be a Democrat, I positively loathe what the Republican party has become.

Don't worry. New Year's will be here before too long, and then we can watch the primary season really heat up. Before long, as Mencken suggested, both sides will have accomplished their primary objective -- proving that the other party is unfit to govern. :devilish:

Husar

07-19-2007, 18:47

(BTW, go have a look here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1614083#post1614083 to see what I was doing on my retirement. I almost hesitated to post the pic because I was afraid my fellow lefties might stamp "no dessert" on my ration card after seeing it.)
It can't be that bad, I already came across two threads where you are advertising it.:laugh4:
That was after my fanboy comment though. ~;)

Goofball

07-19-2007, 18:51

It can't be that bad, I already came across two threads where you are advertising it.:laugh4:
That was after my fanboy comment though. ~;)

Yeah, I guess I am kind of engaging in a bit of shameless self-promotion.

Hey, what can I say?

When you look that bad-ass, you have to tell people about it...

:hmg:

Banquo's Ghost

07-19-2007, 21:05

Wasn't it Abraham Lincoln who once said "Fork scores, and seven rears ago..."

Brilliant, maestro, just brilliant. I imagine you know this sketch (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qu9MptWyCB8), but it could have been written for you.

:bow:

KukriKhan

07-20-2007, 02:13

"Nawwooo. Ayyooo's, th' let'ah."

:laugh4:

Gregoshi

07-20-2007, 02:19

I imagine you know this sketch (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qu9MptWyCB8)...
No, I hadn't seen that before, but I was laughing (forkless) butt off. I found myself cracking up in anticipation of the next item on the list. Thanks for sharing! :laugh4:

Reverend Joe

07-20-2007, 02:32

As an absolute antigovernment, antisociety crazed anarchist, I certainly would like to be able to own my own arsenal of weaponry, free of government interference, so that I might one day exercise my absolute right as a person to "keep and bear arms, especially for the explicit purpose of taking up arms against the Government or fellow citizenry, as such actions are deemed necessary." (2nd Amendment, revised. :laugh4: ) However:

1. I recognize and respect that my political, social and economic beliefs are unrealistic, unworkable and generally totally insane.

2. When people are given free access to guns, they tend to end up killing each other a lot more. Not out of any inborn malice or violent nature, but because the majority of Americans are far too stupid and/or crazy (i.e. me) to be trusted with a firearm. The biggest problem with this is that they do not weed each other out via lead hail; unfortunately, they mainly end up shooting people who do not deserve it, and hence the Darwin Effect fails.

Knives, though, don't need regulation. That's silly. You can't attempt a drive-by stabbing without being killed and/or laughed at profusely.

Gregoshi

07-20-2007, 02:38

Knives, though, don't need regulation. That's silly. You can't attempt a drive-by stabbing without being killed and/or laughed at profusely.
You can drive a knife into someones heart, gut, whatever. It can be done, so you can stick a fork into that argument. ~D

Reverend Joe

07-20-2007, 02:44

You can drive a knife into someones heart, gut, whatever. It can be done, so you can stick a fork into that argument. ~D
I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a lot harder. You have to approach someone without being noticed, possibly chasing them down or engaging in hand-to-hand combat, and when it's done, you're stuck with a knife covered in blood, fingerprints, DNA, etc. With guns, you aim and pull. The idiot screen is a lot better with a knife.
Anyway, how many people accidentally stab someone to death, as opposed to people who accidentally shoot and kill a human being? This also means that the chances of uncertainty in judging cases is a lot lower.

Gregoshi

07-20-2007, 02:47

Um, I wasn't serious Gonzo. You gave me an opening and I lept at the puns.

Reverend Joe

07-20-2007, 02:55

Um, I wasn't serious Gonzo. You gave me an opening and I lept at the puns.
:brood: I... hate... puns.
:hmg:

No hard feelings. :wink:

Gregoshi

07-20-2007, 03:09

No problem. I figured it had to be something like that. You are much more passionate about Backroom issues than I to indulge in puns. As for me, my thoughts on our exchange are best summarized by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young:

If you can't be with the ones you pun,
Pun the one you're with.

Sorry I used you Gonzo. I feel so dirty now...and ashamed. :shame:

Crazed Rabbit

07-20-2007, 03:58

Im against citizens carrying weapons of self defence (and the tool i carry came with the knife blade not a wire cutting tool and since i allready have a good tool i dont need to go looking for another one just to get rid of the knife).
Im all for arming our Coppers to the teath as long as they are trained how to use the weapons effectively (which i havent seen much evidence of)

Sheesh - well please keep your 'give all power to the government and obey them like sheep' attitude outside of the USA.

When people are given free access to guns, they tend to end up killing each other a lot more. Not out of any inborn malice or violent nature, but because the majority of Americans are far too stupid and/or crazy (i.e. me) to be trusted with a firearm.

The facts don't back that up; rather, they prove the opposite:

http://www.perc.org/perc.php?subsection=4&id=572

In three years, more than 200,000 people had migrated to California, most of them trying to get rich quick. If there were ever a recipe for chaos, this would seem to be one: people of varied backgrounds and ethnicities, all armed and all seeking a valuable resource. But the mining camps quickly evolved rules for establishing mining claims and for judging disputes. The fact that each person carried a six-shooter meant that each had a relatively equal amount of power. That minimized violence.

(Tip o' the ole hate to Seamus)

(BTW, go have a look here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...83#post1614083 to see what I was doing on my retirement. I almost hesitated to post the pic because I was afraid my fellow lefties might stamp "no dessert" on my ration card after seeing it.)

That is pretty sweet. I'd post a picture of me all decked out in my work gear and equipment, but I'd probably get fired.

CR

Sir Moody

07-20-2007, 10:53

Sheesh - well please keep your 'give all power to the government and obey them like sheep' attitude outside of the USA.

People are stupid (you only need to look at the sales of the daily mail to realise this). I can just about tolerate going out into the masses so long as i know the majority of them wont be armed. I feel considerable safer knowing that if im walking down the street the people around me arnt carrying things that will kill me if i look at them funny.

Oh and if you think the government doesnt already have all the power your completely naive...

Don Corleone

07-20-2007, 13:16

People are stupid (you only need to look at the sales of the daily mail to realise this). I can just about tolerate going out into the masses so long as i know the majority of them wont be armed. I feel considerable safer knowing that if im walking down the street the people around me arnt carrying things that will kill me if i look at them funny.

Oh and if you think the government doesnt already have all the power your completely nieve...

If you think Chavs aren't going to carry weapons just because you and your legalistic friends outlaw them, you're the one who's being completely naive. (just think Evian, spelled backwards :idea2: )

Papewaio

07-20-2007, 14:04

Knives, though, don't need regulation. That's silly. You can't attempt a drive-by stabbing without being killed and/or laughed at profusely.

It would be weird to see a drive by lancing...

Ronin

07-20-2007, 14:39

If you think Chavs aren't going to carry weapons just because you and your legalistic friends outlaw them, you're the one who's being completely naive. (just think Evian, spelled backwards :idea2: )

criminals don´t stop carrying guns because you change the law...

they stop carrying guns when the police start seriously enforcing the law and throwing people into jail for stiff sentences.....they´ll get the picture...they have over here.

Don Corleone

07-20-2007, 14:46

criminals don´t stop carrying guns because you change the law...

they stop carrying guns when the police start seriously enforcing the law and throwing people into jail for stiff sentences.....they´ll get the picture...they have over here.

You mean the law that we don't enforce now which is why we supposedly need new laws? I mean, we have to consider the circumstances here. Let's not blame the perpetrator, when it's not his fault. It's socity's, right? So let's punish society. See, that's how I see gun control, or knife control, or whatever is next on the docket to be banned (such as meat forks). Rather than holding perpetrators accountable, we take broad sweeping measures that only punish law abiding citizens. Those who would commit crimes with knives, guns or meat forks will continue to. One more violation isn't going to slow them down especially not when we don't hold them accountable when they are caught. And before you dismiss me as being on a screed, let me simply ask you, what is a so-called 'life sentence' in Portugal? In England? In America, for that matter?

Sir Moody

07-20-2007, 15:50

If you think Chavs aren't going to carry weapons just because you and your legalistic friends outlaw them, you're the one who's being completely naive. (just think Evian, spelled backwards :idea2: )

Another wonderful factor of british society - the masses just love the newspapers who proclaim Chav's as massive problems and wide spread - If people stoped reading the news and looked around they would realise that the Chav's are a minority and (mostly) are harmless (just very annoying). Crime happens and so does violent Crime but not enough to justify walking around with your own private armoury.
Thanks for the spelling ive never been able to spell (my code looks a right mess most the time) the spell checker didnt see anything wrong (damn thing).

Don Corleone

07-20-2007, 15:58

Another wonderful factor of british society - the masses just love the newspapers who proclaim Chav's as massive problems and wide spread - If people stoped reading the news and looked around they would realise that the Chav's are a minority and (mostly) are harmless (just very annoying). Crime happens and so does violent Crime but not enough to justify walking around with your own private armoury.
Thanks for the spelling ive never been able to spell (my code looks a right mess most the time) the spell checker didnt see anything wrong (damn thing).

I used the term Chav as a catch-all for whomever it is out in your crowds that you're so paranoid about, as per your earlier post. If your point is that the majority of the jokers in the crowds you're afraid of aren't Chavs, you're missing my point.

And I'm the last person to correcting anybody's spelling or grammar. I didn't do it to correct you, it just gave me a chance to throw that 'evian is naive spelled backwards' saying out there. :clown:

Sir Moody

07-20-2007, 16:21

Don Corleone

07-20-2007, 16:26

Im afraid of the populace in general walking around armed not minoritys who would break the law anyway - at least if they carry weapons they will get arrested if the police stop them BEFORE they have a chance to use them

So, in your scenario, they'd be the only ones that were armed. Do you think this is a good idea?

Sir Moody

07-20-2007, 16:29

How many of them are there when compared to how many of the general populace?

The chance of having a weapon used on you is proportional to the number of people walking around WITH those weapons ie if only the minority have them the chances of actually having them used on you is less.

Don Corleone

07-20-2007, 16:41

How many of them are there when compared to how many of the general populace? Percentages mean nothing. You're advocating a society where the only people that will be armed are those who would actually use those weapons for nefarious acts.

The chance of having a weapon used on you is proportional to the number of people walking around WITH those weapons ie if only the minority have them the chances of actually having them used on you is less.
:daisy: Seriously, this is :daisy:. Your odds of getting mugged have nothing to do with the number of law abiding citizens who may be armed. Your odds of getting mugged depend on 1) how many muggers there are out there and 2) how brash those muggers are. If you disarm everyone except for the muggers, then they'll be pretty damned brash. We'll be their slaves.

If you want to end crime, deal with crime. Throw criminals in jail. Don't start treating law abiding citizens like criminals, because you don't like the idea of people defending themselves.

Sir Moody

07-20-2007, 16:50

i didnt say mugged i said the chance of being stabbed or shot - yes the chances of being mugged are not related to weapons its related to the number of muggers in your area.
By the same logic the chances of being shot or/and stabbed is relational to the number of Weapons being carried in your area.

If you want to end crime, deal with crime. Throw criminals in jail. Don't start treating law abiding citizens like criminals, because you don't like the idea of people defending themselves.

I have no problem with people defending themselves - i have problems with them carrying around concealed weapons the two are not mutrally exclusive

Actually i support the adadge "if you want to stop crime put more Police on the beat" if we increase the size of our Police so that they can actually deal with crime we dont need to arm the populace so they can feel "safe".

Haudegen

07-20-2007, 20:32

So let's punish society.

Hmm, I think most people over here don´t feel punished by gun control laws. But that´s definitely one thing where European and American culture are different.

Let me turn this around: Why do Americans believe in speed control on highways? Why waste the time of millions of people who are forced to drive from east coast to west coast at 55 mph?

If the German government would introduce a general speed limit on highways, I bet many here people would be annoyed ... or even feel punished for the bad behaviour of other less skilled drivers :laugh4:

Seamus Fermanagh

07-20-2007, 20:52

Let me turn this around: Why do Americans believe in speed control on highways? Why waste the time of millions of people who are forced to drive from east coast to west coast at 55 mph?

Actually, its even sillier. We have clearly posted limits on the vast majority of limited access highway (usually 65mph b-t-w) in this country and 80+% of all citizens driving on those roads exceed those limits by 5-15mph unless traffic forces them to slow. Of the remaining 20-ish percent, most obey the limit, but some prefer to exceed it by 25+ mph.

Unless and until they lojak all of the cars with some kind of GPS system and fine everybody for any excess speed, the USA will go on ingnoring these laws.

drone

07-20-2007, 21:07

Hmm, I think most people over here don´t feel punished by gun control laws. But that´s definitely one thing where European and American culture are different.

Let me turn this around: Why do Americans believe in speed control on highways? Why waste the time of millions of people who are forced to drive from east coast to west coast at 55 mph?

If the German government would introduce a general speed limit on highways, I bet many here people would be annoyed ... of even feel punished for the bad behaviour of other less skilled drivers :laugh4:
We do NOT believe in highway speed control, it is forced upon us. 55MPH was first implemented as a fuel-saver, then a life-saver, now it's just a tax. As we all know, it is very hard to eliminate tax schemes. Drive on any interstate over here, if you see someone actually doing the limit they are being cursed at by all the other drivers for slowing down the flow and probably making it more dangerous.

That being said, auto accidents killed 44K people in the US in 2004, while 11K people were murdered with firearms. Which is the bigger problem?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

Lemur

07-20-2007, 21:26

Let me turn this around: Why do Americans believe in speed control on highways? Why waste the time of millions of people who are forced to drive from east coast to west coast at 55 mph?
I'll only add that if I were forced to choose between the right to have guns and the right to drive as fast as I like on freeways, well, it wouldn't be a tough decision. Germany has a much more useful quirk than we do.

Of course, in an ideal world, I could have both.

Crazed Rabbit

07-20-2007, 23:46

The chance of having a weapon used on you is proportional to the number of people walking around WITH those weapons ie if only the minority have them the chances of actually having them used on you is less.

So you're saying carrying a piece of metal and plastic changes the chemical balances in your brain and your personality?

In reality, carrying a weapon will not cause people to go insane. I wonder how people get that view? Perhaps the same government that assures them police need weapons, and are all very professional and much better than any civilian with them.

I have no problem with people defending themselves

You just want to put them at a disadvantage to criminals.

CR

KafirChobee

07-21-2007, 02:15

So you're saying carrying a piece of metal and plastic changes the chemical balances in your brain and your personality?

In reality, carrying a weapon will not cause people to go insane. I wonder how people get that view? Perhaps the same government that assures them police need weapons, and are all very professional and much better than any civilian with them.

You just want to put them at a disadvantage to criminals.

CR
This is one of the wildest arguements I've heard yet.

Cops are all professional about their weapons - well, mostly - normally. They are trained to use them - which is not the same as teaching temper control. Each year more than a few over re-act and kill unarmed people that aren't even suspects. Recall a few years ago (in LA, but was a similar case in Texas) where two cops emptied their guns (then reloaded and emptied them again) into the backs of three Mexican brothers on their Mom's doorstep - one of the cops said (as a reason for it) that one of the brothers flipped them the bird. In Tampa, cops killed a father and son (both white btw) that were fighting - I guess to get them to stop disturbing the peace, or matbe one of them flipped the bird at them. These are only examples - things like this happen everyweek somewhere in the good old USA.

Now, I'm not saying take guns away from cops - but, the arguement that a person with a gun doesn't feel more powerful than those without? Think about it. People with guns do act differently - enpowered. And for some - insain.

Haudegen

07-21-2007, 08:48

We do NOT believe in highway speed control, it is forced upon us. 55MPH was first implemented as a fuel-saver, then a life-saver, now it's just a tax. As we all know, it is very hard to eliminate tax schemes. Drive on any interstate over here, if you see someone actually doing the limit they are being cursed at by all the other drivers for slowing down the flow and probably making it more dangerous.

That being said, auto accidents killed 44K people in the US in 2004, while 11K people were murdered with firearms. Which is the bigger problem?
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

We have had 5094 deaths in 2006.
http://www.n-tv.de/637459.html

44000 is quite a lot. But I guess the reason is that an average American drives far more kilometers per year than an average German does, due to the relative small distances here.

Whether the higher number of car related deaths compared to gun related deaths makes cars a bigger problem than guns depends upon the question whether one considers the benefits of cars in every day live as a sufficient compensation ...

I´m curious: From your responses I see that the speed limit is generally disliked and often ignored by people. Is there no lobby group in America that fights against it?

Husar

07-21-2007, 10:08

I´m curious: From your responses I see that the speed limit is generally disliked and often ignored by people. Is there no lobby group in America that fights against it?
Well, at least there's a gun lobby.
Doesn't the everyday use of guns outweigh that of cars anyway?

Haudegen

07-21-2007, 11:37

Doesn't the everyday use of guns outweigh that of cars anyway?

I don´t see much sense in determining which of the two is the greater evil. Both have some benefits but cost a certain amount of lives every year. It´s not like we had to choose between the two. If anyone thinks that speed control or gun control should be enacted/canceled in his country, he is free to involve in politics and try to change it that way. But I´ll tell you my opinion:

In the context of living in Germany my answer is no.

Husar

07-21-2007, 12:31

How about Africa then? You have no big federal government, everybody can have guns and there aren't many cars which also cannot drive fast because of the lack of paved roads. It has to be the dream continent for NRA guys, makes me wonder why they don't migrate.

Crazed Rabbit

07-21-2007, 16:54

Now, I'm not saying take guns away from cops - but, the arguement that a person with a gun doesn't feel more powerful than those without? Think about it. People with guns do act differently - enpowered. And for some - insain.

All the examples you listed were cops. Coincidence? How many of them were prosecuted for murder?

You're missing the real reason - some cops do this because they abuse the authority given them by the state to feel powerful, which lets them get away with things no none-cop could. It is not guns that leads to this, but almost unchecked power and lack of punishment for transgressors.

I´m curious: From your responses I see that the speed limit is generally disliked and often ignored by people. Is there no lobby group in America that fights against it?

Hmm, good question - there isn't, as far as I know. I guess its easier for people to just ignore it.

Crazed Rabbit