Overall flavor of MTW vs STW

[marlboro]

All,

Putting aside the fact that MTW will be much more complex as compared to STW, will the atmosphere of the game be the same?

Part of why I love STW as because of the mystic and mystery of the japans shogunate history. Imagining that you have loyal retainers willing to fight to the death, the Japanese music score, and the interest of the samurai gave the game a bit more flavour.

I do not know if MTW can capture the same style. Any thoughts?

[SattP]

This is a pretty premature thread. I doubt you can judge the atmosphere of a game even if you know everything about it without actually playing it. My guess is it will be pulled off similarly with a different style, but I can't guess the atmosphere of the game.

[marlboro]

I have played the demo, but yes, I am still waiting for the MTW release on the 30 Aug

[Forward Observer]

Marlboro, you have just asked the $64,000 question.

Of course most STW fans will buy the game because they are already familiar with the game play, and I would assume that many new players who are have a specific interest in Medieval history will come on board, but--and this is an awful big but--will the game survive this total shift in historical background, content, and flavor? It is also very hard to get an objective view when you are disussing this topic at a "fan site".


I am sure that this is the also number one question on the minds of the developers and publishers, so it's anyone's guess at this point. Only time will tell.


Cheers

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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[NagaoKagetora]

Part of the reason why I like Shogun Total War so much is because it was/is a breath of fresh air. It deals with a country and time period which I had never really been interested in.

I doubt that MTW will have the same "impact" on me. But that doesnt mean that it wont be a very cool game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.crozier/skgv.jpg
Kagetora
Kenchikuka - Kampfgruppe Wiking

[SattP]

Nag, do you play WW2OL? I'm just curious.

[Forward Observer]

Quote Originally posted by NagaoKagetora:
[B]Part of the reason why I like Shogun Total War so much is because it was/is a breath of fresh air. It deals with a country and time period which I had never really been interested in.

I doubt that MTW will have the same "impact" on me. But that doesnt mean that it wont be a very cool game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[/QUOTE]

My feelings, exactly!



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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[NagaoKagetora]

Rgr that SattP. I belong to KGW, 4th Panzer Div, EU section currently fighting in the Antwerp sector of the map.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.crozier/bannerghc.jpg
Kagetora
Kenchikuka - Kampfgruppe Wiking

[Yager]

I'll probably relate more to MTW than STW. Images of knights marching off for a cause, something greater than themselves. Templars crashing through enemy formations and longbows launching hails of arrows. STW was always about power, to become the shogunate. MTW seems to put the focus on religous ideals, freedom, etc for a person. That sort of air alone makes me want to pick up the game.

[Emp. Conralius]

I'll have to go with MTW. Although I loved STW, MTW is just a lot more appealing. Let's face it, besides elementary (and somewhat steriotyptical) knowledge of ninjas and samurais, the Sengoku Jidai was relatively an unkbown subject to the masses. But really the epicness of STW changed all that. But in MTW, the game is branching out to a much larger audience, as well as a much larger fan base. Japan, to most Westerners, is a pretty much alien culture. And now I believe in MTW, people will feel more comfortable being their ancestors, and maybe changing history that is well known to them.

[Taohn]

Quote Originally posted by Yager:
STW was always about power, to become the shogunate. MTW seems to put the focus on religous ideals, freedom, etc for a person. [/QUOTE]

Well, I don't think STW is more focused on power than MTW. I mean in both games you usually represent a ruler who wants to be top dog and will do anything to become that.

Also, medieval Europe was a dirty cesspool compared to Japan in the same time period. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by Taohn (edited 07-21-2002).]

[marlboro]

I guess it was that alien culture that made STW even more fun and that started a massive fan base. While MTW will be technological better that STW, it remain to be seen if it can surpass STW in atmosphere.

This will be up to the individual, but I am keeping my fingers cross. I did love “Defender of the crown”, pity there is no “pillage and rape” option!!!

Hmm... Rape their horses and ride of on their women..... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Forward Observer]

Quote Originally posted by marlboro:


I did love “Defender of the crown”, pity there is no “pillage and rape” option!!!

Hmm... Rape their horses and ride of on their women..... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif [/B][/QUOTE]

I apologize sincerely for what I am about to post, but your last line reminded me of a joke.

It seems that the famous old west outlaw Jessie James had just boarded, and is about to rob, a passenger train. When he enters the first car and shouts: "Stick em' up. This is the James gang and we're going to rob all of the women and rape all of the men"

Suddenly a lady in the passenger group shouts back: "Jessie, you must be mixed up---don't you mean rob all of the men and rape all of the women?"

That's when an obviously sweet little guy in the back jumps up and screams: Shutup lady, and let Jessie rob this train the way he wants to.

I warned you, and once again I apologize.

Cheers


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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[SattP]

That's cool, Nag, I haven't been playing much recently because I just got into Shogun. My name is sattp in game, but I'm usually defending smaller towns.

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

LOL FO-sama hed to the OT forum and post in my joke thread. Twas very funny! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!

No Fear Legend.

[Masaki Nagatsuka]

I certainly hope the atmosphere is different!

You couldn't get more different between the European culture and the Japanese culture!

[Vanya]

You want flavor comparison?

Soup WITH heads vs soup WITHOUT.

You want visual comparison?

Watch "Kingpin".
The hot chick vs the landlord lady.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

GAH!

[Gothmog]

Yager:
MTW seems to put the focus on religous ideals, freedom, etc for a person

Yeah, we all know mostly Crusades and Jihads were just lame excuses for robbery and murder. In that aspect, at least Sengoku samurai didn't pretend to be holy.

Anyway, back to the topic.

I am more familiar with Japanese Sengoku Jidai than European Medieval, but interested in both.

STW excels in the real time modeling of middle-age warfare, and apparently MTW will inherit that. And on top of everything, MTW now adds more richness on the role-playing of leaders, management of domestic and foreign affair, and more variety of the culture and region.

So it seems that MTW should be a better game. But then again, sequals can be better, can be worse. Just as my favorite civlization games, the original was superb, CIV II was the best, everything later than that just keep going down down hill. You never know.

I just wish they won't produce another TW. For that'll be completely boring and doomed to be a disaster.

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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
http://www.grahamday.dial.pipex.com/rose-knight1.gif

[Orda Khan]

Better than STW? I doubt it mainly because the code of honour, the bushido will be missing. The Japanese were culturally more advanced than barbaric Europe.
What was that old amiga game called? Populous? I can't remember but as a civilisation game it has never been touched and this is usually the case. The original was just that, the original idea. Anything else is just a different theme based on the original idea.
Different maybe but not better

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Kocmoc]

imo, MTW just use the same engine how STW.

we see different units ...more units...and a different tactic-window....but at the end its the same, i dont care wich units i command, mongols, japans ....europeans...

all the same units kill each other and there will be a diff use of units counter units....and so on...

koc

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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)

[Kocmoc]

btw, i forgot who wrote it, but TW3 will be with phantasy units, this is the only possible solution and a pretty good idea and thios will be again the same....

counterunits....kills....cheapunits....expensiv....and so on, just an other look and a bit other tactic window,...


koc

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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)

[Kocmoc]

it was this boy
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000508.html




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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)

[Forward Observer]

Well, now that the subject has been brought up. If MTW is even just moderately successful, you know that there will at least be an expansion pack with new countries, campaigns, or what have you.

If the game is wildly successful, you know there will eventually be a TW 3. Now which way would you want them to go? Back in time to say--the Romans or the Greeks and their contemporaries or forward to say--the Napoleonic period or even the various colonial wars of the 17, 18, and 19th century.

The problem with going forward is including all of the new technology and keeping a balance without making the game overly complex. Just look at the complexities that many perceive will be caused by simple siege engines in MTW. Now imagine what all of the multitudes of different artillery, ammunition, and small arms of all types and sizes would cause if the Napoleonic period is chosen, not to mention how important naval warfare became as a part of this period of conflict.

Although the thought of watching the battle of Waterloo unfold in the TW style is awful tantalizing, going back in history is probably the best way to go. This type of warfare just seems to fit the game's engine so much better. If you still have room for more complexity, apply it to the socio-economic and political part of the game.

Just some random thoughts--I could be wrong.


Cheers


P.S. Please--none of that sword and sorcery fantasy crap. The only elf that I want to see is mini-me in the new Austin Powers movie.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 07-22-2002).]

[Masaki Nagatsuka]

I personally couldn't care less if they don't do another Total War after Medieval.

I really couldn't care less if they didn't do Medieval!

The allure of Shoggy was the setting. Not the engine. The Bushido, the Samurai, the Daimyo!

But now that I got sucked into the Total War scene, I'm gonna have to buy Medieval!

[MJDore]

I think the best bit of Medieval Total war is the fact that it is Medieval....

When they brought out Shogun i kept thinking to myself wouldnt it be cool if they had done the game during the medieval period in Europe.

The Japanese were not more advanced than the europeans they only got the gun during the time period in shogun TW.

and what Europe lacks in Bushido gains in the code of chivalry