KotR King of the Romans OOC thread IX [Archive] - Page 3

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 15:21

No, go ahead. I make it that those voting for the Council have 21 votes out of the 83 total in the game, so there is a 1/4 vote for the Council.

EDIT: this will be constituted under CA 11.1, so will include Salier. I don't see CA 11.7 coming into play with the succession - I don't there is a dispute over the rules with the succession; it is more political.

83? What am I missing? I can only come up with 80. We started at 80 last election. Then Crusaders/King lose 5 because of CA 11.4. But Dukes gain 4 because of same CA. Matthias gains one for being Chancellor. Totals stays exactly the same at 80. And my spreadsheet is just a cut/paste of Econ's table on the chancellor report thread. And my totals are summed up by the spreadsheet itself because I do not trust my math. :book:

*edit*

And stig, as far as I know, Steward is just an in game title for fun. It is not official unless there is no Duke. Not just if there is no Duke around the board. So, as far as I know this Duke council should be the 4 Dukes unless they say publicly in the Diet that they are sending their seconds. I am getting kinda nervous IC and OOC that there is only one actual Duke on this council. If people sit in for Dukes, without it being clear on if they are an official second, then the results of that council will be questionable and CA 11.1 will just get invoked all over again.

gibsonsg91921

07-30-2007, 15:56

I guess my preferred alternate is Stig, cuz hes fought so many for me.

Stuperman

07-30-2007, 16:14

Both myself and Arnold sre on the council, which makes 2 dukes at least.

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 16:24

Yeah, I was in error both OOC and IC about what I read. Jan has publically amended his statement in the Diet. Hey mistakes happen but they tend to make the RP'ing more fun! :2thumbsup:

rumors and untruths are part of politics. its just that this one was by accident. :laugh4:

*edit*

Has anyone else noticed that Lothar has not voted in the succession dispute poll? Neither has Duke Gunther but he hasn't been around much.

Interesting....

*insert dramatic mystery music here*

econ21

07-30-2007, 16:45

83? What am I missing? I can only come up with 80.

You are right. I included the influence of 3 spare avatars by mistake.

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 16:48

Yeah I was wondering if you did that. If you included them it would be +6 voting power and not +3 anyways. They have one elector vote and one stat vote. Thanks for clearing that up. :book:

Stig

07-30-2007, 17:52

I guess my preferred alternate is Stig, cuz hes fought so many for me.
Gah, I just decided to stop playing for today ... anyone else to fight the battle for ya?

And stig, as far as I know, Steward is just an in game title for fun.
Not in this case, as the Steward can do anything a Duke can, except for one or two minor things (calling Ducal Edicts for example).

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 17:57

Stig

07-30-2007, 18:02

Yeah but you don't get the influence. The title Steward was only meant for the early game portion when there were no Dukes for two houses. These days its just a formality unless the person playing a duke is not going to be around for awhile.
Which is the case, DG is leaving for a couple of more days again.

Gezien ik komende woensdag het land nog langer verlaat, lijkt het me het beste jou de leiding te laten behouden. Ook met het oog op mijn avatar's naderende dood.

Given I coming Wednesday still longer, seems it leaves the country me the bests you the control preserve to let.

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 18:06

Yeah but I guess my point is that leaves Ansehelm as more of a "designated second". So steward with the little s and not Steward with the big S. From what econ made clear, you can not be "Steward" unless there is no Duke at all. A "designated second" is more of a steward who makes decisions and speaks for the Duke but has none of the Ducal powers.

Dutch_guy

07-30-2007, 18:07

Gezien ik komende woensdag het land nog langer verlaat, lijkt het me het beste jou de leiding te laten behouden. Ook met het oog op mijn avatar's naderende dood.

Since I'll be leaving the country, and this game, for three weeks as of coming Wednesday, I deem it best to let you stay in charge [..as Steward, Duke in my stead]. My avatar's nearing death is also taken into consideration

Thought I'd do it myself as babelfish is so...crappy.

:balloon2:

Stig

07-30-2007, 18:08

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

{I have to type something as otherwise I won't be able to post}\

Thought I'd do it myself as babelfish is so...crappy.
I prefered Babelfish, was funnier ~D

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 18:12

Well, that clears that up. Still leaves the question of Count Hans stewardship unclear though. :yes:

gibsonsg91921

07-30-2007, 18:15

haha stig if u cant thats cool. since i have until 6 AM CST tues then thats plenty of time.

in the future, stig can be my alternate if i need one, or anyone else really. i dont care as long as i dont die haha

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 18:16

Well, OK says he would wish there to be "designated alternates" so a clear line of responsibility and permission can be established. Especially concerning things like avatar death.

GeneralHankerchief

07-30-2007, 18:26

Just to let everybody know, the Dukes have decided to discuss the succession issue privately.

Tamur

07-30-2007, 18:42

I would please like to sign up for... errr... something. It appears that I have come back to internet stability in time for some rapidly changing circumstances around here.

So, someone tell me where I can fit in?

gibsonsg91921

07-30-2007, 18:45

u can go to the first page of Chancellor's and Governor's Reports to see unassigned avatars and the Imperial Library to see their stats. theres a few franconians and a swabian available i think

GeneralHankerchief

07-30-2007, 18:49

Tamur!!! :cheerleader:

Best thing to do is to read the History of the HRE thread (in stickies and my sig) and then the Chancellor's Reports to see which avatars are available.

TinCow

07-30-2007, 18:57

Tamur

07-30-2007, 19:01

Thanks gibson & GH (edit: and TinCow!), great to be back after... months. Good heavens that was a long spell of non-PBM-ness.

I'll take a look at the pages you mentioned. And definitely, my hat's off to OverKnight, phenomenal job of keeping things organised with the history. It was wonderful to pop onto the internet as I travelled and catch up with just the few moments I had.

Will post up later when I've had a chance to digest names & events a bit.

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 19:08

Welcome!

Right now there is one Swabian in Outremer, one Franconian in Outremer, 2 Franconians around Thorn, and one old Franconian in Rome.

Dutch_guy

07-30-2007, 19:11

Welcome Tamur !

Hope you'll make the right choice and join the house of Franconia :beam:

:balloon2:

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 19:12

Well, unless he picks the younger Hummel brother, he has little choice. :laugh4:

TinCow

07-30-2007, 19:20

The Library has reasonably up-to-date shots of all the avatars, including unassigned ones, if that helps.

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 19:32

Just to let everybody know, the Dukes have decided to discuss the succession issue privately.

I just thought of something. Are we at least going to make public, who sat on the council? Could be important for whether the council was "fair and impartial".

Tamur

07-30-2007, 19:58

Well, after doing a bit of reading I wonder if Fritz von Kastilien would be take-able? I did enough reading just now that I've got a good feel for who he should be. But I know there's a bit of a player bubble already in Franconia, so if there are problems with this, no trouble.

Do the other houses need some instruction in the birds and the bees? Or are they simply shy of their spouses?

(oh dear I probably should not start off this way!)

edit: and thanks TinCow for pointing me to the library, it's a big help to see the traits.

Stig

07-30-2007, 20:11

Fritz is still open, and don't worry, you can say anything you want in this thread.
Well unluckely not anything, but hey.

Welcome btw

Privateerkev

07-30-2007, 20:34

Alright, I have been trying to keep this straight in my head so I'll just pour out my ideas onto here and people can tell me if I missed something or got something wrong.

Sometime soon/now the Dukes/King/designated alternates are going to meet according to the poll in CA 11.1. If this results in a new Kaiser then;

I assume CA 11.2 immediatly activates and the new Kaiser picks a new heir/same heir. (I have a theory as to who it will be but we'll see)

I assume CA 11.6 immediatly activates and the new Kasier picks a new King/same King. Then the King picks new or same Crusader Counts.

Influence will then be calculated accordingly.

If even one character believes that there is a "large dispute" in how this new Kaiser became Kaiser, then I assume CA 11.1 activates and the Diet Speaker immediatly puts up a new poll asking if 1/4 of the voting power wants another Duke Council.

If the old Kaiser disputes this current Duke Council's rulings, then I assume he can activate CA 11.7 and he will meet with the four Dukes/their alternates and vote on the matter.

If even one Duke disagrees with who is Kaiser after all of this, he will activate Edict 11.9 and it will be put to a public vote.

How am I doing on this so far? :book:

gibsonsg91921

07-30-2007, 21:14

yeah, fritz is cool.

better not usurp peter's power since fritz is his older brother...

lol jk

Tamur

07-30-2007, 21:43

What's that I see on the trait list betwixt "Terribly Scarred" and "Religious"... I think I see it there in the pixels.

Incredibly Envious of Péter

Hmm.

:beam: Just kidding! Fritz will be nice. Well, mostly.

econ21

07-30-2007, 23:50

Welcome Tamur! Fritz is already knighted, so he can get stuck in some battles already. There are always fights around Thorn.

Speaking of which, as I understand it, there is a battle which needs fighting in Franconia right now. Gibson should do it, but apparently can't. His normal alternate, Stig has stopped playing for the day. So, Tamur, would you like to jump head first into the PBM and fight Gibson's battle for him?

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1260-3.zip

Orders for Peter are here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1623520&postcount=424

Sometime soon/now the Dukes/King/designated alternates are going to meet according to the poll in CA 11.1. If this results in a new Kaiser then;

I assume CA 11.2 immediatly activates and the new Kaiser picks a new heir/same heir. (I have a theory as to who it will be but we'll see)

I assume CA 11.6 immediatly activates and the new Kasier picks a new King/same King. Then the King picks new or same Crusader Counts.

Influence will then be calculated accordingly.

I agree with the above.

If even one character believes that there is a "large dispute" in how this new Kaiser became Kaiser, then I assume CA 11.1 activates and the Diet Speaker immediatly puts up a new poll asking if 1/4 of the voting power wants another Duke Council.

I think that would be pointless - all that would happen would be that the same Council would meet to look again at the same issue they have just decided. And I don't think one character on their own can create a "large dispute"; they would need to take some other's with them or they are just shouting in the wind. In this case, I think I would require 1/4 of the electoral power to shout out in the Diet. I would not be keen to create a pointless poll.

If the old Kaiser disputes this current Duke Council's rulings, then I assume he can activate CA 11.7 and he will meet with the four Dukes/their alternates and vote on the matter.

As I said to AG, I am not seeing a rules dispute in this succession crisis so I don't see a role for CA11.7. We have clear rules to deal with the succession - notably CA11.1 and Edict 11.9 - and we are following them.

If even one Duke disagrees with who is Kaiser after all of this, he will activate Edict 11.9 and it will be put to a public vote.

I think this comes into play immediately after the Council makes its decision - if their decision is not unaminous, it goes to a Diet vote.

How am I doing on this so far?

I think you may be over-analysing - I'd prefer to worry about it if it happens. But I admit it is interesting to speculate. And hard to avoid given that the Council is meeting in secret.

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 00:09

I think that would be pointless - all that would happen would be that the same Council would meet to look again at the same issue they have just decided. And I don't think one character on their own can create a "large dispute"; they would need to take some other's with them or they are just shouting in the wind. In this case, I think I would require 1/4 of the electoral power to shout out in the Diet. I would not be keen to create a pointless poll.

As I said to AG, I am not seeing a rules dispute in this succession crisis so I don't see a role for CA11.7. We have clear rules to deal with the succession - notably CA11.1 and Edict 11.9 - and we are following them.

I think this comes into play immediately after the Council makes its decision - if their decision is not unaminous, it goes to a Diet vote.

I think you may be over-analysing - I'd prefer to worry about it if it happens. But I admit it is interesting to speculate. And hard to avoid given that the Council is meeting in secret.

Well, overanalyzing tends to be what I'm good at. :beam:

Plus, I am planning Jan's possible legal moves depending on what the news is. If Jan finds out that Hans sat in as the Swabian Duke/alternate, he is going to request CA 11.1 be activated on the grounds that the conflict of interest is a "large dispute". Invoking CA 11.1 in this case would be important because, if Hans is Kaiser, he then can not sit in on the second CA 11.1 Duke Council. If people argue IC that one character can not invoke CA 11.1 by himself, then Jan is going to claim that what constitutes a "large dispute" in CA 11.1 is a "rules dispute" so it will go before the Kaiser. Since this rule has to do with the Kaiser, then CA 11.7 will be invoked and the Kaiser and 4 Dukes will meet to consider what a "large dispute" in CA 11.1 means. What happens at that ruling will then influence what Jan's next legal move, if any, will be. :book:

OOC I am absolutly loving the succession dispute. IC however, Jan is horrified that what looks to be a possible coup is taking place by semi-legal means. Coups IC are cool, but you can't expect everyone to just sit by quietly. Jan took an oath to Kaiser Siegfried and that oath stands until the Kaiser dies or steps down. This convuluted legal mumbo-jumbo is the best way I can think of to RP this loyalty IC. I must say, you guys sure provide a fun way for a grad-student to avoid working on his historiographical essays! :yes:

econ21

07-31-2007, 00:16

If Jan finds out that Hans sat in as the Swabian Duke/alternate, ...

The Council may be meeting in private, but I think the membership of the Council should be public knowledge. I'll have Elberhard to ask for it in the Diet.

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 00:19

The Council may be meeting in private, but I think the membership of the Council should be public knowledge. I'll have Elberhard to ask for it in the Diet.

I'd appreciate that. I have been wondering who is in it and no one has been able/willing to give me a straight IC or OOC answer about the makeup of the whole Duke Council. I think I know who 4 of the members are but I can't find out who the Swabian delegate is. :no:

gibsonsg91921

07-31-2007, 00:34

i can fight my battle tonite i said, i just wasnt sure yesterday.

econ21

07-31-2007, 00:35

i can fight my battle tonite i said, i just wasnt sure yesterday.

Excellent! I think your battle is all Overknight needs to end the turn. Good hunting!

Tamur

07-31-2007, 01:13

i can fight my battle tonite i said, i just wasnt sure yesterday.

Wonderful news. I still haven't quite dealt with all the boxes here, but tomorrow I'll be ready.

Best of luck Péter! We will expect to hear the kielbasa sizzling over your fires rather than the enemy's tomorrow night.

OverKnight

07-31-2007, 01:56

I'm off to work in an hour, so gibsonsg91921 doesn't have to rush, just get the save back in the barn by 1200 GMT Tuesday. If my time zone math is decent, that should be plenty of time.

There's a few pieces of book keeping, some building with the small amount of florins left to me and I have to fight AG's battle, and off to 1162 we will go. I'll probably post another battle queue before going into another report.

AussieGiant

07-31-2007, 02:28

Wow another "mod" joins the game!!

Welcome Tamur. I believe we are collecting some serious skills here in the game.

Council members have been disclosed.

gibsonsg91921

07-31-2007, 03:11

o definitely lol thanks all

gibsonsg91921

07-31-2007, 04:02

i fought it - heres the end SS:

http://123pichosting.com/images/5893kotrpetey.JPG

OverKnight

07-31-2007, 04:35

Good job gibson91921. Do you happen to know what were the odds going into the battle?

If not I can check myself.

Our "Dark Lord" demands statistics, and statistics he shall have.

Once I get back from work I will continue 1160 and proceed with 1162 and post a battle queue.

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 04:38

Why can't we have a "light lord"? Why does it always have to be a dark lord?

gibsonsg91921

07-31-2007, 04:53

nah i forgot to check. it was not a hard one, tho

Stig

07-31-2007, 08:52

Why can't we have a "light lord"? Why does it always have to be a dark lord?
Dread is teh kool, Chivalry isn't ~D

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 09:10

I guess that is a matter of opinion. :beam:

And the answer I thought of to my question was:

Dark Helmet: "So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

:laugh4:

TinCow

07-31-2007, 12:10

Why can't we have a "light lord"? Why does it always have to be a dark lord?

Dark Lords don't show dirt and stains as much.

Tamur

07-31-2007, 13:30

Dark Lords don't show dirt and stains as much.

But they do show sock fuzzies.

edit: say that five times fast!

FactionHeir

07-31-2007, 13:41

Welcome Tamur.

I just managed to finish reading the OOC thread.
Looks like it will be private, but how do I present my evidence and my (living) witnesses then?

Also, I am not sure I will be having internet for the next 28 hours again, but I will try my best!
Please take the stuff slow as it takes a lot of time to post everything and organize it in travelling.

Thanks

Stig

07-31-2007, 13:46

Hans can't bring evidence for the Ducal council. Wolfgang is to do that if he decides to vote for Hans.

Next to that, where is Hans going to get witnesses? He will have to make them up, while Warluster had Dieter in Jobst's stories for quite some time.

AussieGiant

07-31-2007, 14:36

I think I need to be clear here guy's,

The council is not waiting on anyone to present evidence in a formalised manner. This is not being run like a court. We have decisions to make and that is all that is being discussed.

Decisions are being made already and as soon as the final votes are cast there will be an announcement.

If there is anything to present do it now. The only time line is when all votes are collected and that has started.

Hans can present but publicly and Wolfgang is the voter for Swabia.

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 15:36

Wolfgang is the voter for Swabia.

Oh the irony...

:laugh4:

I was wondering what would become of the Hummel character after the "la-revolution". Looks like he landed on his feet. :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant

07-31-2007, 16:01

Well he gets a vote and then his moment of glory is done.

Call it 15 minutes of fame for the imfamous :balloon2:

OverKnight

07-31-2007, 16:33

Battle Queue 1262

We've got 5 battles lined up. First come first serve. Only claim the save if you're ready to fight and upload the new save in one fell swoop.

Prinz Elberhard - Completed

Khan Orda has retreated towards Edessa. He is within reach of your army on the bridge east of Aleppo. Your mission is to bring him to battle and slay him at all costs.
https://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7147/run0tv4.jpg

Count Fredericus - Completed

It seems the Khan has promoted a promising Mongol, Jebu of the Borjigin, to leadership of the former Mongol rearguard north of Edessa. This is a sign of desperation and must be exploited. Take your garrison and destroy this army. Again this new family member must be killed at all costs. I know your forces are worn down, but the Mongols are in worse shape.
https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/flydude18/battle-k4.jpg

Count Jan von Hamburg - Deferred until next Queue

During the new year, the Egyptian forces menacing Acre chased you north into the Mountains. (OOC: You faced 1:7 odds and I retreated you) However, much of the force dispersed when they rebelled against their Sultan. The odds (5:4) are now even and you face a small rebel army of battered peasants and depleted Mamluk Archers. If you wish, strike south and avenge your retreat. (One of the Crusade Armies could assist, but I thought you'd like a battle)

Count Hans - Deferred until next Queue

You have brought your Crusade forces south and have pursued Sultan Moussa, the man who ordered the taking of Jerusalem. Bring him to God's Justice south of Aleppo. (OOC: Since you're away from the game let me know how you want to resolve the battle.)

Count Peter von Kastilien - Completed

Several small Polish Armies have swarmed over the bridge south of Thorn. To protect the nascent Teutonic Crusade and Thorn, clear the area of all Polish forces. Start by attacking Captain Stanislaus to your north, this will bring the Polish King to his countryman's assistance. Kill or capture the King if you can and then proceed to secure the area. This might involve several battles. You are not to have the Teutonic Crusade engage in battle. Those men have a long march ahead and must be preserved for now.
http://123pichosting.com/images/3602kotrpetey2.JPG

http://123pichosting.com/images/5209kotrpetey3.JPG

Here's the save:
EDIT: Link removed because it isn't current.

Get to it. :2thumbsup: Let me know if you have any questions.

AussieGiant

07-31-2007, 16:42

God I wish I could play the game now!!

After those types of order I feel pumped!!:2thumbsup:

TO GLORY MEN!!!

KILL EM ALL, or if you don't have the stomach, release them and have tea and scones with them...your choice.

Privateerkev

07-31-2007, 19:31

Alright, as much as I have been procrastinating, I need to head to the library for the day to skim a few books on how post-colonial theory has been applied to writings on the Spanish Empire. I will be able to get back onto the boards but I will not be able to play the game until tonight when I get back home (8 or 9 hours from now). OK knows what is up and we have it worked out. Good luck with the battles.

And AG, Jan was thinking of holding hands with them and singing kum-bai-ya. Would Duke Arnold and his friends wish to join us? Seeing Grom and Bane singing around the campfire while roasting marshmallows puts a smile on my face. And afterwards, we can all play "trust games" where someone falls backwards and the others catch them.

:beam:

econ21

07-31-2007, 21:30

I've downloaded the save and am going to fight the battle now. :sweatdrop:

econ21

07-31-2007, 23:59

OK, the battle was fought (3:2 odds):

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1262-1.zip

https://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7147/run0tv4.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Frustratingly, the Mongol leader and some of his infantry escaped to around Aleppo. Elberhard can't reach them. Salier might be able to take them. Alternatively, Karl Zirn could backtrack but that would risk desertion.

The only positive feature is that I think Elberhard could move to support Fredericus's attack. FLYdude is welcome to do that, but don't please let the AI control Elberhard!

GeneralHankerchief

08-01-2007, 00:03

The AI controlled Elberhard in my battle and he came out fine.

Dutch_guy

08-01-2007, 00:07

Okay, yet another heads up [a shameless quote from a PM]:

Just a quick note saying, yet again, that I will not be participating in this game the coming three weeks and that Stig will take full responsibility for the Franconian House. So for him personally the situation won't have changed [as he is currently in charge as Steward already].

I hope my avatar manages to outlive my vacation, and that I will still be Günther when I return - keep the old man out of trouble please !

Anyway, I hope I can manage to tune in from my holiday destination at some point, but I'm not counting on it.

Have fun, and see you all in three weeks then :2thumbsup:

:balloon2:

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 00:17

Have fun on your vacation DG! :balloon2:

I hate to say it, but if Fredericus and Gunther, are at age 60, they might not live out the week, let alone 3. In four turns, they will be 62 and we are moving through the turns at a fairly good clip now that the Diet session is over. I've heard of generals living to 63 but I have not personally seen any older than that. People with "aged" avatars (there are at least 4) might want to think of who they want to take over as a new character once their old ones die. Just a thought. There are still 4 spares but one of those is 50.

The AI controlled Elberhard in my battle and he came out fine.

I bet the AI couldn't make him swear like Elberhard though. :laugh4:

Ignoramus

08-01-2007, 01:40

So do I send Wolfgang's vote to AussieGiant?

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 01:47

From what I have seen him say IC and OOC I think you are supposed to send it to him. But, I do not know for sure. :no:

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 03:43

i call the save!

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 04:10

well here we are. the FHA kinda got boned after the first battle - theres still an army that we will be unable to engage successfully in the area. heres the two screenshots. i captured and executed the king - felt great!

http://123pichosting.com/images/3602kotrpetey2.JPG

http://123pichosting.com/images/5209kotrpetey3.JPG

flyd

08-01-2007, 04:28

I've stolen the save and are holding it for ransom.

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 04:37

What do you want for it?

I have :2cents:

OverKnight

08-01-2007, 04:51

gibson, remember you need to post a link to the newest save. Otherwise we run the risk of confusion and someone playing on from the wrong save.

I assume http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1262-2.zip is the save you uploaded?

I also assume that's what FLYdude downloaded?

I hope so. :sweatdrop:

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 04:54

I don't know what FD downloaded but I can confirm that the link you posted is the one that went up right after Gibson posted his results.

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 04:57

yeah thats what i uploaded - sorry i didnt know im new to this lol

flyd

08-01-2007, 05:00

Yes, I picked up 1262-2.zip. The few prisoners, along with their leader, were released and retreated towards Aleppo.

Save: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1262-3.zip

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/flydude18/battle-k4.jpg

OverKnight

08-01-2007, 05:12

[Mr.Burns]Excellent[/Mr.Burns]

Once I get home I'll take a look at the latest save and probably put out a new queue as Hans's battle doesn't need to be resolved until the end of the turn and PK's battle has been deferred for now.

I've decided I won't be using Crusade mechanics to hunt down Mongols. It seems more satisfying grinding them down the old fashioned way. So they'll live to fight another turn.

I will also post an interim report for 1262 once I'm home as well.

Edit: The leader was released? D'oh! Ah well Orda got away as well. I guess this will be a battle of attrition rather than decapitating the Mongols from the top.

Stig

08-01-2007, 09:12

Wow, you got some casualties there Gibson, ah well the King is dead, and Thorn should be open for retraining again.

econ21

08-01-2007, 09:58

Overknight: please keep an eye on the historical armies restrictions. I think Elberhard had too many knights.

OverKnight

08-01-2007, 10:18

I realize that, but the army under Elberhard was the only one that could be gathered together in a turn. I was drawing in and combining forces from around Outremer. I had little time to recruit spearmen to balance out.

Considering it was a fight against the Mongols, I figured I could fudge it a bit. When reconstituting the HAs I will keep a strict eye on the restrictions, but with Elberhard's army, I worked with what I had.

As my term progresses all the armies, many of them which were in violation of troop guidelines when my term began, will follow them.

AussieGiant

08-01-2007, 12:33

Econ, please, for the love of god, tell me I didn't just read Big E killing a few prisoners??:laugh4:

Are you going to the dark side young jedi?

FactionHeir

08-01-2007, 13:15

I thought he voted for that release resolution even? :tongue:

On a different note, I should now be able to be online more regularly again. Checking back maybe in an hour and then again in 10 or so. Might then not hear much for another 12 due to more train travel.
Will be back to absolutely normal in around 40 hours from now, with access to M2TW as well.

OverKnight

08-01-2007, 14:27

It turns out there are no more battles to be farmed out for this year.

I'm fighting some rebels with Arnold, Hans's battle is going to be auto-resolved unless he gives me a proxy (he won't be able to fight the battle until time's elapsed) and the bandits blocking Jans are going to be run off, though he still has the option of fighting them 1:1, they'll run if anything else approaches though.

I'm going to assemble a report for 1262, so the effected parties can get back to me if they want to speak up.

Edit: I'm going to bed, so I won't be able to get 1264 today. So a little change of plans. If Privateerkev wants to fight that 5:4 battle against the rebs, take the latest save and do it. If FactionHeir wants to name a proxy, he can take the latest save and fight as well. Just make sure the save is the current one.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1262-3.zip

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 16:00

Econ, please, for the love of god, tell me I didn't just read Big E killing a few prisoners??:laugh4:

Are you going to the dark side young jedi?

Well, if the total prisoners is under 80, it won't effect his traits. So, us playing chivalrous types can slaughter all we want as long as we kill 79 at a time. :laugh4:

Got the save

Stig

08-01-2007, 16:02

If such news gets out to the known world no-one will ever believe a world you say ~D
Everyone will know your dirty little secrets :whip:

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 16:27

polish nobles are a pain in the arse, especially when the general's bodyguard accompanying them is 50 people so you have to keep an eye on them with ur tougher units. i want vilnius!!!

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 16:40

Alright, battle is done. Boy horse archers are annoying when you just have one unit of heavy cav and your fighting uphill. :P

OK, I'll PM you the results. This is my first time doing this so please let me know if I did it wrong.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1262-4.zip

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 17:03

i like when i get to execute prisoners, especially kings.

hey PK and Cecil, noticing the 2 loyalty points of peter rearing their ugly heads? im still executing, and im not changing my ways lol. thanks for the vote tho! hahahaha. hate me IC, not ooc. just roleplayin

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 17:21

Hey, its cool. You have to figure out how to RP such low loyalty IC somehow. Though you might find it more difficult IC to gain support for legislation in the future. :beam:

gibsonsg91921

08-01-2007, 17:30

yeah.. his loyalty is at 4 now, so i should start regaining trust.

Stig

08-01-2007, 17:45

Well the Hummels are very good in low loyalty ~D

StoneCold

08-01-2007, 17:49

Hmm... maybe Ituralde's avatar should start getting more authority soon or we will start seeing avatars really rebel ingame? What is the min before rebellion of avatar starts happening anyway?

OK, do more assassinations and spying... :P

GeneralHankerchief

08-01-2007, 18:34

Privateerkev

08-01-2007, 18:40

I guess people are using this to justify it:

(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

I'm kind of neutral about it. On one hand I think the more people can fight their avatar's battles, the better. On the other hand I know how real life takes priority and sometimes you just don't have the time.

Stuperman

08-01-2007, 18:58

In WotS there was high drama because one inactive avatar had a battle to fight and he lost in the autoresolve. Why isn't this the case now? If your avatar is up for a battle and you're not available, you should either autoresolve or not fight. Those are the rules.

I kinda feel the same, the 48 hour timeframe has always been clear, and It might help with some of the steamrolling problems we've been having. I mean we spend TONS od time trying to manufacture problems, why not let the game make some for us?

Also, the 'new' avatar that just married In would be a hoot to play, I just wish he wasn't so old.

edit: for spelling.

Northnovas

08-01-2007, 19:07

I guess it would depend of the circumstances big or small battle. You can't be available for every battle but I sometimes think that I would take my chances on an auto-calc. I know I don't feel comfortable having active avatars under my command and then be in a situation to really need them and then the worse happens.

Maybe three options:
1 pass
2 auto-calc
3 other person command

If you know the consequences to your options; but my preference would be 1 if I wasn't available and park the avatar in a city.

FactionHeir

08-02-2007, 00:47

Depending on whether the battle is imperative for a straight path to Jerusalem, I'll use proxy or pass.

As for the proxy... Ituralde can fight it and write about it, if the battle is required.
Just make sure that Hans is fighting at the front line as usual, and you ransom prisoners if the reward is greater than 2000.

gibsonsg91921

08-02-2007, 00:50

lets end turn and keep going! woot w00t

econ21

08-02-2007, 01:10

Am I the only one who feels a little iffy about all of this proxy use?

In WotS there was high drama because one inactive avatar had a battle to fight and he lost in the autoresolve. Why isn't this the case now? If your avatar is up for a battle and you're not available, you should either autoresolve or not fight. Those are the rules.

Yes, I am starting to feel iffy about it too. There's been a bit of slippery slope - we've allowed it for travel and tech problems, but now it is starting to happen if people are busy for a couple of days or even one evening. If Overknight feels the same, I suggest that he get tough on it.

However, the M2TW autoresolve is much more forgiving than the RTW one, I think. For example, we'd probably do better autoresolving against Mongols or Polish nobles than fighting them manually.

My preference is that if players can't fight, they liase with the Chancellor to keep their avatar out of danger. I've floated the idea of "leave" and "active duty" before - rather like the Upper House and Lower House distinction. Players whose generals are on active duty can expect to be set up for battles. Those on leave, should be governing somewhere behind the lines.

I guess people are using this to justify it:

(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

The wording may not be clear, but that clause was for when there are multiple generals in a stack. It is not really proxying, rather deciding whose avatar is in command.

FactionHeir

08-02-2007, 02:01

From the diet:

The fact that you hadn't bothered to speak at all until the matter was virtually settled speaks volumes. If you didn't care enough to present evidence when it could have actually affected something, why should we care that you're presenting it now?

I am rather unsure how I am to reply to this IC considering it was the OOC that prevented me from doing so? :grin2:

gibsonsg91921

08-02-2007, 02:09

"justice can wait"

AussieGiant

08-02-2007, 02:33

Cecil XIX

08-02-2007, 03:04

I am rather unsure how I am to reply to this IC considering it was the OOC that prevented me from doing so?

I realize it's unfair to you, but not to Hans. IC, there isn't anything in the world short of physical impossibility to excuse waiting so long to produce evidence on what is the most important issue to the entire nation.

Northnovas

08-02-2007, 04:35

Well guy's if we get tough on the fighting issue I would have to retire.

I'm not trying to be dramatic but I'm on the road for over half a year.

That means I would basically never be available to fight my battles.

On the flip side I am obviously very active in the game. The idea of using something like a spy, diplomat or other character type is a solution, but I hope you can all agree that this would be like standing on the side line watch the real action take place.

On the flip side some people that are away for a day here or a day there could be using the proxy thing a little too easily.

Maybe we could make up some legislation for it!!! Good god!! More rules. :oops:

I don't want to say I'm a special case but I'm a road warrior for work and this game is a great way to have fun no matter where I am.

I would fight all my battles if I was at home and be more than happy to fight others for them too :beam:

Maybe if the absence is for work or holiday then there is a exemption. It's an honour system of course but that could work.

AG

I think there is a happy medium somewhere. If vacation, work or CPU crash prevents one from playing then I think there would be specific instructions on what to do with the avatar. Sometime auto-calc can work just as fine. You AG are in a unique situation and it has been working fine for you. Look how long it took us to get Austrian avatars yet we were involved.
The proxy works if you know something is coming up and cannot make the commitment then you trust some else to fight the battle and you know the consequences. On the other hand I like the idea mention by econ from another game. If you know you can't be involved because of OOC commitments ( I hate to say real life) then your avatar steps back from the lines and does administration work.
There is balance to keep the momentum going in a game and the involvement of one's avatar without a lot of rules to the game.

OverKnight

08-02-2007, 05:19

Once I get home from work I will wrap up my work on 1262, I still have to do buildings, agent movement, taxation review and a final check that I haven't missed anything. We will then continue with 1264 if nothing exciting happens with the Crusaders.

Considering Hans's battle will be past the 48 hour mark when I get home, I will resolve it at my discretion, balancing concern for avatar and strategy.

The thing about the "active" or "inactive" list is I usually don't know until I put out a call for battle.

Barring a clear consensus from the peanut gallery, I will use Chancellor's discretion on the issue in a battle to battle basis.

AussieGiant

08-02-2007, 06:45

Hi Northnovas,

Well Arnold would have to essentially step back permanently and any other avatar I take would do the same thing.

There would be brief moments when I'm back and IF, the timing was right I'd be able to fight a few battles with the avatar...of course after so much time sitting around that would be hard to organise and be rather "canned" in my view.

Can you imagine me in a house telling the Duke that I'm OOC back in a week after being away for 5 weeks and he should let me take over an army group, while other battle active players having been working away and proving themselves? I don't think that is fair on the guy's able to control armies in my opinion.

I would not want to be an active member able to fight battles regularly and then have the Duke use OOC reasons to let some other guy who's in a city for the last 10 years in the game suddenly pop in and pound away.

Essentially any avatar I control would sit in a castle or city and rot away.

That's the reality of me being away so much.

If that guideline was enforced Arnold would never have ended up the way he is now and more importantly any avatar I take on would likewise be in the same situation.

Personally I'd get bored of that.

Plus, if there is eventually a shortage of avatar's me taking one could be seen as a waste. Something I would also agree with totally. I would not want some prime avatar being handed to me so it can sit in cities for 80% of its life.

Anyway I'm just thinking out loud and I'm more than happy to listen to what the gallery has to say.

This is not directed at you Northnovas. You just asked a good question.

Ituralde

08-02-2007, 10:53

I'm back and it took a while longer to work myself through all of the Threads, you do accumulate stuff. :beam: Just finished with the OOC thread and will continue with the rest. Expect something from the Kaiser soon!

Thanks econ21 for fighting the battle, and I agree that we have been overusing the Proxy thing. Maybe it will be enough right now, to make people aware of the fact and that everyone for himself tries to rethink his position and accepts the occasional auto-resolve. I wouldn't want strict rules for it though. We can all talk, and I'm sure we'll find a solution that is satisfactory for everyone.

Welcome Tamur!

Ituralde