Taking down the Papacy?

[l3asu]

Hi, I'm in Byzantine campaign and loving it, very fun an unique position they are in.

So I've moved directly westward to the point where I've captured Sicily and Southern Italy which destroyed the Sicilians. Now I plan to move on and capture Corsica and Sardinia and parts of North Africa, but right above my Souther Italian province of Naples is the Papacy and my question is what are the precautions and effects of taking down the church with the iron fist of Orthodox Christianity?

I have nothing against the church so far, but the annoying Milanese are nibbling at Naples and it would end up being unwise to march over papal lands to show them whose boss on top of that not having an adjoining province for support.

[phonicsmonkey]

Being at war with the Pope brings with it the risk that you'll end up at war with several other of the Catholic nations, either because they are currently allied with him, or because he can call a crusade against you which some or all of them will join.

taking Rome itself would seem to pose a higher risk, as he also has been known to assign missions to the human player of a catholic nation to regain Rome and restore it to the Papacy.

The jury is still out as to whether the AI factions get these missions also, but it's a plausible theory which explains other behaviour, so....

Having said that, if you go so far as to KILL the pope, you can often get peace straight away by bribing the new one....and if you are well organized you'll be able to repel any attacking catholics, crusading or otherwise

[Philbert]

If you stick east on the Italian peninsula you don't go over Papal lands at all. Naples borders Bologna there.
Once you take Bologna you have a good platform to go for Milan and Venice, though Milan and Venice will go at Bologna with all their might.
Naples will be safe then though.

[Valdincan]

As stated, many Catholic factions may declare war on you. But if you have a strong military defending your lands, you should be fine.

[sapi]

Papal guard spearmen can pose a real problem for the cavalry-heavy armies of the byzantines.

I suggest that you take them in a siege, bypassing the infantry on the walls as you blitz the town square and defend from the defender there.

Once rome has fallen, and the pope with it, you should be able to negotiate for peace with the next pope.

[l3asu]

What about taking out both Rome and the other papal province in one fell swoop with the pope inside and everything?

Will there still be a pope and papal states?

[icek]

there will always be pope if there are cardinals. some faction will get a mission to give a home for pope and pope wil be elected.

[Sentinel]

Logic would dictate that if you are allied to the pope it is less likely that he would call or sanction a crusade against you than if you were his enemy. The question is, is the pope / diplomacy programmed to act logically. Do you feel lucky?

Your empire already has a number of exposed borders, with enemies all around you. Creating another front line in northern Italy is going to make life harder. Why not bypass Rome and take Bologna. Then give it to the pope in exchange for an alliance. This will prevent the other catholic factions moving down Italy to attack Naples and Sicily. Giving you a little breathing space to concentrate on your other objectives.

[Jasper The Builder]

Bring on the Pope i say, Let him call his crusades!!

I hate being a catholic nation, I can't wait till we have Protestants factions in some of these mods, Rome is only good for a sacking and killing the pope and being up to our knees in catholic blood, Soi Surrender or you'll die coz we are the marching barmy english :2thumbsup: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Rebellious Waffle]

The Papal States are, to all appearances, immortal. I'm running a Byzantine campaign now, and I've controlled all the Old World provinces for almost forty turns -- I've systematically scoured the entire map with spies, assassins and a *huge* watchtower network, killing every last Papal agent, taking every Papal city, and killing every Papal army. Still, twenty turns after I got control of every region, the Papal States persisted.

And they're still at war with me.

Their diplomats never accepted a ceasefire; now all their diplomats died of old age or lead poisoning (lead is poisonous at high speeds) they have no priests, they have no navy and they have no Pope. But they're still kicking, somehow, some way...


EMPEROR IMBERT: Okay, guys, it's been almost a hundred years since you had a Pope. Perhaps it's time to throw in the towel?

PAPAL STATES: Buggrit, I told 'em. I TOLD 'em. Milennium hand and shrimp!

EMPEROR IMBERT: Look, you can move all the remnants of the Papal States to a nice apartment downstream of St. Peter's Basilica. You can live there with your ten cats and click rosaries to your heart's content.

PAPAL STATES: How's the mochachino?

EMPEROR IMBERT: Rotten. There's no Starbucks in the Middle Ages.

PAPAL STATES: We will never surrender!

EMPEROR IMBERT: You're crimping my reputation, dude. I'm still Despicable because of this "war" between me and the pigs in your yard.

PAPAL STATES: NEVER!

[hoetje]

so, does anyone actually know how to eliminate the papal states entirely?
It is far from logic that the papal states still stands after all Rebellious Waffle did :s

[Lacessit]

PAPAL STATES: Buggrit, I told 'em. I TOLD 'em. Milennium hand and shrimp!


Foul ole Ron made it to Cardinal?! :2thumbsup:

[Zarky]

so, does anyone actually know how to eliminate the papal states entirely?
It is far from logic that the papal states still stands after all Rebellious Waffle did :s

No, no way. You can only remove pope.

As to the topic, for non-catholic faction it would be extremely stupid to even try attacking papacy, for Byzantines i suggest you gather couple (2-4) strong armies and fort them up in Rome region, leaving you free path to walk trough to Florence for example. Of course you need to regularly bribe and ally the papacy for just in case, but atleast you won´t become too wealthy.

[Lacessit]

No, no way. You can only remove pope.

Actually, If you systematically assasinate the complete college of cardinals, and thén kill the pope, the papacy just sort of... ends! :inquisitive:

[Zarky]

Actually, If you systematically assasinate the complete college of cardinals, and thén kill the pope, the papacy just sort of... ends! :inquisitive:

You would need to assassinate all cardinals during the same turn, or until there´s no high piety enough left (which just isn´t worth it) And if you´re non-catholic you can´t track their movement.

[Rebellious Waffle]

so, does anyone actually know how to eliminate the papal states entirely?
It is far from logic that the papal states still stands after all Rebellious Waffle did :s


I agree, it's quite vexing. I thought for sure that exerminating their agents woud do the trick, but evidently I was mistaken. I've even swept the seas with search fleets, thinking that there might have been a Papal dinghy bravely ploughing the waves, but all I got were more rebels.

A perusal of the faction rankings scroll shows that the Papal States have been flatlined at zero in every category for some time. But somehow they're listed as a "living faction".

I figure it's jis' Foul Ole Ron and the Smell, now...