Completely uneven battles

[Rocket_Boy]

Do you reckon we'll be able to play them them or does m.t.w. automatically just wipe out the underdog. I'd love to see a horde of mine sweeping through europe taking on forces 1/3 their size (and smaller) just for slaughter.

Or conversely, a small army in a totally cut off province have a go at defending itself against impossible odds making a heroic last stand.

I mean a lot of the battles that would have taken place during this period would have been uneven to say the least, and a shock result is sometimes on the cards.

[Stephen Hummell]

Of course, why not.

Are we the only 2 here today cause this has to be the most boring day of the summer on the Sword Dojo?

[Papewaio]

In STW that would happen. But it is more likely you will face high odds as the AI would run when severly outnumbered or better quality.

Field an army of about 500 mixed calvary and I found the AI will flee even at 3 to one odds.

'Don't worry Daimyo there is only 500 of them'

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif 'That is 500 elite calvary being led by Takeda Shingen! Run for the hills'.

[Rocket_Boy]

I was just checkin'. I've never played Shogun, so pretty much all I know about MTW is from the demo. Hey at least you guys over in the US get a summer. It looks like we're going to miss out here in the Uk this year, it sucks!

[Stephen Hummell]

Don't worry you will get the game in late augest-early sep. I mean, basicly everything Total War is based in the UK.

[Rocket_Boy]

I actually meant that we probably aren't going to get a summer (ie. weather wise). Where I live, this year so far, we've had about 4 days in which sunbathing has been a possibility with predictions of more rain to come. I'm surprised that suicide rates are'nt through the roof. Apologies for getting a bit off-topic though.

[Thane Talain MacDonald]

Ah the lovable dread score http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Yager]

In STW whenever you fielded a marginally larger force on expert they would turn tail and run. Heck, I've had them trapped inbetween me and the sea before and they've run only to have their leader commit suicide.

Another thing that irks me is when a full unit retreats. They haven't even been bloody shot at and they run. This especially gets to be when the full unit turns, runs, and runs directly into a full enemy unit and get annihilated.

[A Nerd]

I hate when you invade a province and the enemy decides to meet...and when you march towards him he walks toward the end of the map and then runs away...

[LittleGrizzly]

this always irritated me as i would never run id have a good unit slaughtered before i gave in but the computer noooo.......

[Papewaio]

I feinted attacks all the time. But it was normally a single unit of Ashi sent in to spook the enemy. I would then call the attack off. This may have some vice problems in MTW and not sure how that will help with morale.

---- EDIT particulalry poor grammer ----

[This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 07-24-2002).]

[Nobunaga0611]

Quote Originally posted by Yager:
Another thing that irks me is when a full unit retreats. They haven't even been bloody shot at and they run. This especially gets to be when the full unit turns, runs, and runs directly into a full enemy unit and get annihilated.[/QUOTE]

SERIOUSLY. This bothers me more than anything else I think. I understand morale is a big part of the game. People here have even done studies on it. Its a big part of the shogun academy. But if I'm a general, and I tell you to attack a unit, you damn well better attack them. None of this getting close to them and then running away.

And this brings me to the worst part of Shogun. I've yet to say anything about this, but, does anyone know why units move on their own? I understand a lot of it has to do with them being 'Impetuous', but seriously, if I'm defending a province, and I place a group of Sam. Archers on the top of a hill, why do they move to a point half way down the hill, away from the attackers, before they even get there?? I understand that sometimes they're gonna move on their own, but I have yet to see a single unit move to a place thats better than where I put them. If anyone knows how to stop this, PLEASE tell me!

[Nelson]

Me too. Feints can pin units that might otherwise reinforce the true objective.

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CONITOERGOVINCO

[Papewaio]

Units need to maintain a certain distance between each other. So if they are too bunched up they will separate out into a more 'comfortable' distance.

Also with respect to morale. There is a lot of distance effects so you can march up to an enemy but get too close and be outnumbered and when you reach a certain distance it may be to much and they panic and run.

[Yager]

I'll just use an example of a battle I had today with some other folks on the net. My army was facing two others right off the bat so I decided to head back into the safety of my allies. The lag was decent and everything was alright. I leave one unit of Ashigaru to hold back a cav charge and have the rest of my units turn tail. The ashigaru fight for awhile but 3-4 cav spill over and hack up eight musketeers. The death of these eight musketeer cause a break in my forces. 4 units of musketeers suddenly break and rout. The only problem is that they rout directly back into the enemy... what is the point of that? Firstly, they shouldn't have routed after a measly 2 cav breakthrough, secondly, it isn't exactly retreating when you run into the enemy. To top this all off these units running away caused my nodachi to run and for some reason whenever I tried to rally them they would pause a moment and run away no matter how far they are. Even going beyond this the units that I did get back to friendly lines, the second I moved them they routed. This included my generals unit. GAH.

I'm all for morale and a little bit of unit deviation from the plan. If they were a known bloodthirsty unit and they assaulted an enemy, that'd be okay. It is the ranged units that really get annoying though. When they are put in an area they are meant to be there.

To solve all this I plan to have my general sit at the rear of all the troop and whoever of my army begins to run first I charge in and slay the leader. Sun Tzu's Academy.

[Papewaio]

Move away from the enemy to often (ten clicks in a row) and your guys will just rout.

The amount of casualties, the rate of casualites, and the potential amount of casualites in the next few cycles all effect morale. As does routing units. Enough routing units and they will all rout.

[youssof_Toda]

Sure that will happen but it's more fun to turn it around and win it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[PSYCHO]

In MTW I think the routing AI works differently.
In STW troops routed back to the enter points.
In MTW troops rout away from enemy units.

Cheers

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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO

[Stephen Hummell]

I'm bored, but PSYHCO's right the AI is alot better in MTW.

[w00tage]

I hope so

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"A warriors death in battle should be bloody"