Riding with the fashion police in Iran... [Archive]

Devastatin Dave

07-24-2007, 18:05

Interesting article...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070724144415.2esww75r&show_article=1

This reminds me of many governments that pull this sort of thing to try to distract the public (Terri Shiavo, abortion this and that, Monica). But my concern is how far does this go once these girls get out of sight of the camera? Is this our future possibly with the influences of this culture? Please discuss...

InsaneApache

07-24-2007, 18:20

I wouldn't dare tell my wife what she could or couldn't wear. :sweatdrop:

Devastatin Dave

07-24-2007, 19:30

I wouldn't dare tell my wife what she could or couldn't wear. :sweatdrop:
Just think, maybe in a couple of years, you will be able to, if certain trends continue. Hell you might even be able to beat the crap out her as well or have the moral police do it for you.

I also understand that they will be targeting men as well for not looking "Islamic" enough. How long before the citizens of Iran turn on their government for doing stupid things instead of taking care of its people...

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

07-24-2007, 22:09

That depends on how long the West continues to prop up the regime by demonising it.

Husar

07-25-2007, 00:40

I wouldn't dare tell my wife what she could or couldn't wear. :sweatdrop:
I guess you married her because you like her and care about her opinion and not because someone else arranged it so you have someone to do your housework....:sweatdrop:

InsaneApache

07-25-2007, 00:45

I do the housework. I know my place. :whip:

Nuff said. :shame:

Husar

07-25-2007, 00:58

I do the housework. I know my place. :whip:

Nuff said. :shame:
That was my point.:beam:

Alexander the Pretty Good

07-25-2007, 02:49

I'm starting to think that maybe if we just ignored Iran (nothing good nothing bad) they'd solve their little government problem pretty fast.

Marshal Murat

07-25-2007, 05:19

Cops....
Bad clothes, bad clothes
What you gonna do?
What you gonna do?
What you gonna do when they come for you?

Bad clothes, bad clothes,
what you gonna do
when they come for you???

Dog - Fashion Hunter

I can see the American sitcoms now....

I think that if the government wants to restrict clothing to preserve moral integrity, then go ahead. Teens will be teens, and will push the acceptable boundaries. They will find different outlets, and if you shut off the clothing, then they will divert their idle hands elsewhere.
Good luck, but I say you shouldn't try to be a fashion police where there are other problems to be solved.

HoreTore

07-27-2007, 15:48

Just think, maybe in a couple of years, you will be able to, if certain trends continue. Hell you might even be able to beat the crap out her as well or have the moral police do it for you.

You've been smoking too much of the "they're coming to invade us!!!"-pipe...

We've beaten christianity here in europe, we'll easily beat Islam too. I don't see why it should be any harder, it should in fact be easier, as christianity has been here for over a thousand years, while islam doesn't have a foothold here.

Ice

07-27-2007, 20:46

I'm starting to think that maybe if we just ignored Iran (nothing good nothing bad) they'd solve their little government problem pretty fast.

It's hard to with media like this.

Although this just makes me laugh about how much of an ass backwards country Iran really is, I believe you are right in the fact that they need ignored.

Redleg

07-28-2007, 03:31

You've been smoking too much of the "they're coming to invade us!!!"-pipe...

We've beaten christianity here in europe, we'll easily beat Islam too. I don't see why it should be any harder, it should in fact be easier, as christianity has been here for over a thousand years, while islam doesn't have a foothold here.

That is rather an amusing comment considering the Pope still sits in Europe with a large following of Europeans that at least listen to his words.

Gregoshi

07-28-2007, 07:25

...while islam doesn't have a foothold here.
Then why all the clamouring of concern about the Islamic "invasion" of their countries from our European Organites, HoreTore? ~:confused:

Tribesman

07-28-2007, 08:08

Then why all the clamouring of concern about the Islamic "invasion" of their countries from our European Organites, HoreTore?
Because moaning about the threat of Jews running the country is just sooooo last century .
Get with the program , moan about the Muslims:2thumbsup:

HoreTore

07-28-2007, 09:58

That is rather an amusing comment considering the Pope still sits in Europe with a large following of Europeans that at least listen to his words.

The difference between europe and the US:

in the US, politicians can talk about faith and christianity, even conservative christianity. Here however, they'll get burned at the stake if they dared to do so...

Banquo's Ghost

07-28-2007, 11:24

The difference between europe and the US:

in the US, politicians can talk about faith and christianity, even conservative christianity. Here however, they'll get burned at the stake if they dared to do so...

Now, you're making a fundamental mistake by characterising "Europe" as a homogenous state.

Your assertion about religion might be correct for Norway, but here in the Republic of Ireland, religion (in the shape of the Catholic Church) has a significant role in politics - and has to be addressed by politicians - often within the framework of their own faith or lack thereof. The same is true of other states with a catholic heritage such as Poland, Italy and Spain (though perhaps to a lesser degree for the latter two).

(Ironically, at a time - 40-odd years ago - when Iran was quite a modern liberal state, Ireland was practically a mediaeval theocracy that imprisoned women in work camps for the crime of getting pregnant outside marriage).

In the United Kingdom, because the Church of England is the established religion under the constitution, bishops of that faith are granted a seat in the House of Lords and thus legislative power. A Roman Catholic however may not marry the head of state or become it.

Being known as a person of faith can be an electoral asset in many parts of Europe. I will however concede that it is rarely seen as a "requirement", but we have an awful lot of officially Christian parties etc. Indeed, looking it up, you actually have a Christian Democrat party in Norway, so where does that leave your assertion?

I suggest therefore that there are parts of Europe that have a far more significant political role for Christianity than the US. In addition, I suspect that in the United States - similarly diverse - religion does not play quite as big a role in politics as we like to imagine.

HoreTore

07-28-2007, 13:17

Indeed, looking it up, you actually have a Christian Democrat party in Norway, so where does that leave your assertion?

....And they've been debating for years whether they should drop the word "christian" from the name, as it scares voters... Anyway, they rarely talk about christianity, their big cases are environmentalism and foreign aid... Whenever they say something that sounds like conservative christianity, they're silenced by everyone else very quickly.

Redleg

07-28-2007, 15:53

....And they've been debating for years whether they should drop the word "christian" from the name, as it scares voters... Anyway, they rarely talk about christianity, their big cases are environmentalism and foreign aid... Whenever they say something that sounds like conservative christianity, they're silenced by everyone else very quickly.

Your own statement defeats your initial comment however. So in essence Europe has not beaten christianity, even in Norway the concept of christianity still exists - it might be marginalized in the government but as a religion it still exists.

Is there not churches in Norway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Norway

In spite of the relative low level of religious practice in Norwegian society, the church in many cases functions as a provider of social services of last resort, and local clergy often play important social roles outside their spiritual and ritual responsibilities. In 2004 a survey conducted by Opinion AS showed that only 47% of the responders actually considered themselves Christians, while 49% did not consider themselves Christians. [6] Another survey conducted by Gallup International in 65 countries in 2005 found that Norway was the least religious among the Western countries surveyed, only 36% of the population considered themselves religious. However, only 9% explicitly stated that they were atheists, while the biggest group, 46%, were those that considered themselves neither religious nor atheists. [7]

Certain bishops' stance on whether gay and lesbians can serve as ministers is under continuous debate, [8] and the church has weighed in on political issues from time to time, resulting in considerable controversy.[9]

It seems Norway still has a state religion also. Something that the zealots in the United States have never accomplished.

I would say that christianity is far from beaten even in your neck of the woods.

Strike For The South

07-28-2007, 15:59

Although 83% of the Norwegian population belongs to the state church, only about 3% attend church services or other religious meetings more than once a month

Ive always wondered why Europe and America difer so much on religon. why did we turn out so different. I couldnt imagne only 3% of Texans attending church and nearly everyone Ive ever known in my entire life has been a christian (wether it be Anglo-protastant black-protastant mexican-catholic polish-catholic czech-catholic) and had there wedding in a chruch. Granted everyone really isnt as jesuse as say 50 years ago but everyone still belives

InsaneApache

07-28-2007, 16:25

Lots of religious wars dampened our enthusiasm.

HoreTore

07-28-2007, 23:22

Your own statement defeats your initial comment however. So in essence Europe has not beaten christianity, even in Norway the concept of christianity still exists - it might be marginalized in the government but as a religion it still exists.

Is there not churches in Norway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Norway

It seems Norway still has a state religion also. Something that the zealots in the United States have never accomplished.

I would say that christianity is far from beaten even in your neck of the woods.

A couple of points:

1. When I said "Christianity is defeated", I didn't mean that it no longer exists, I meant that it no longer poses a threat to us. It's at a point where it doesn't matter if it's islam or christianity, they wont affect anything anyway.
2. Our good old state church... Do you want to know just why we still have our state church? Our government(that is, our labour-party) has used it as a very effective way of making it liberal. That the labour party has dominated the selection of priests/bishops is seen as the main reason why the church is very liberal today.

Husar

07-28-2007, 23:47

I meant that it no longer poses a threat to us.
Yes, it was very dangerous especially to "us" christians.:dizzy2:

Redleg

07-29-2007, 01:48

A couple of points:

1. When I said "Christianity is defeated", I didn't mean that it no longer exists, I meant that it no longer poses a threat to us. It's at a point where it doesn't matter if it's islam or christianity, they wont affect anything anyway.

Defeat has a pretty clear meaning my young friend. Also I doubt very much that christianity or islam does not have an effect on the cultures and politics of Europe. One can find an article on the subject and its effect on some European country weekly if not almost daily.

2. Our good old state church... Do you want to know just why we still have our state church? Our government(that is, our labour-party) has used it as a very effective way of making it liberal. That the labour party has dominated the selection of priests/bishops is seen as the main reason why the church is very liberal today.

Again proves my point very well. Christianity via the church still has some role in your nation.

HoreTore

07-29-2007, 09:45

Defeat has a pretty clear meaning my young friend. Also I doubt very much that christianity or islam does not have an effect on the cultures and politics of Europe. One can find an article on the subject and its effect on some European country weekly if not almost daily.

Again proves my point very well. Christianity via the church still has some role in your nation.

Defeat doesn't mean "wiped off the face of the earth". Take Germany in WWI, for example. It wasn't smashed like in WWII, but it was still defeated, wasn't it? A few hundred years ago, Christianity was simply everything here. Our morals were decided by the priests. That is something you absolutely can't say about europe today. Christianity had a leading role, now it doesn't. I'd say that is defeated- Not total defeat though, if we don't keep our guard up, they might return...

Ironside

07-29-2007, 10:32

Ive always wondered why Europe and America difer so much on religon. why did we turn out so different. I couldnt imagne only 3% of Texans attending church and nearly everyone Ive ever known in my entire life has been a christian (wether it be Anglo-protastant black-protastant mexican-catholic polish-catholic czech-catholic) and had there wedding in a chruch. Granted everyone really isnt as jesuse as say 50 years ago but everyone still belives

Tbh most of nothern Europe's marriages (red Sweden, but the situation is simular in the whole area) are still carried out in church (that said, being born out of wedlock haven't been eyebrow rasing for 30-40 years atleast), but more in the way of tradition than actual serious beliefs. Same with baptism and funerals, while the confirmation numbers has really dropped.

But there's some interesting differences yeah, not even our Christian democrats refers to God (although they can refer to Christian values) and saying that you took guidance from God for a decision is probably equal to political suecide.
And in somewhat recent news, the leader for the Christian democrats overran a vocal minority within his own party and supported the decision of allowing some types of abortion travels (that is you can travel to Sweden to have it done (within Swedish rules), when it's illegal to do it in your own country). :book:

One reason might have to do with the old religious procecution and the refugees that fled to America, as you have to be quite strong in faith to bother about it enough to be procecuted in the first place.

It seems Norway still has a state religion also. Something that the zealots in the United States have never accomplished.

While Sweden abolished the state church 2000 (state religion is slightly different and afaik not existant in Norway), if we're going by the data, then the best way to weaken the "religious right" in the US is to merge the state and church. :laugh4:

HoreTore

07-29-2007, 11:10

(state religion is slightly different and afaik not existant in Norway)

Unfortunately, it is... From our good ol' constitution, second paragraph:

§ 2. Den evangelisk-lutterske Religion forbliver Statens offentlige Religion. De Indvaanere, der bekjende sig til den, ere forpligtede til at opdrage sine Børn i samme. Jesuitter og Munkeordener maae ikke taales. Jøder ere fremdeles udelukkede fra Adgang til Riget.

Translation:

§ 2. The evangelic-lutheran religion remains the States official religion. Those inhabitants, who confess to it, has a duty to raise their children in the same. Jesuits and Monks must not be tolerated. Jews are still excluded from access to the Kingdom.

We are in the process of making a new one, however...

Redleg

07-29-2007, 12:25

Defeat doesn't mean "wiped off the face of the earth". Take Germany in WWI, for example. It wasn't smashed like in WWII, but it was still defeated, wasn't it? A few hundred years ago, Christianity was simply everything here. Our morals were decided by the priests. That is something you absolutely can't say about europe today. Christianity had a leading role, now it doesn't. I'd say that is defeated- Not total defeat though, if we don't keep our guard up, they might return...

Once again all you are doing is proving my point. Christianity is still present within Europe. You made a generalization that in some places might be true but overall it is not. The Pope still has great influence in Italian Politics is one examble, and someone else alreadly mentioned the influence present in another nation.

You went with an absolute statement and now your backing off of it. Which is exactly my point.

Have a nice day.

JR-

07-29-2007, 13:46

Ironside

07-29-2007, 18:36

Unfortunately, it is... From our good ol' constitution, second paragraph:

So your church doesn't ultimatly responds to the state, but some other dude like the pope or something? :inquisitive:

State religion= encouraged by the state.
State church= part of the state.

HoreTore

07-29-2007, 19:11

So your church doesn't ultimatly responds to the state, but some other dude like the pope or something? :inquisitive:

State religion= encouraged by the state.
State church= part of the state.

Nah, we have both a state church("protected and encouraged" by our king) AND a state religion..

They're both going down soon though. Both the lefties AND the conservatives wants it gone, plus just about every religious/ideological organization, including just about every church/mission... The only ones who want to keep the status qou(or something similar instead of a radical change), are the centrists and the ruling part of the labour party. But I don't think they can keep that up for long.

Goofball

07-30-2007, 16:58

Your own statement defeats your initial comment however. So in essence Europe has not beaten christianity, even in Norway the concept of christianity still exists - it might be marginalized in the government but as a religion it still exists.

Bold added by me. I think that's what he meant by having "beaten" Christianity, Red. Whereas before the Church had the power to dictate to people (and governments) how they should live their lives, now it really has very little power, and secular governments are the name of the game.

Tribesman

07-30-2007, 17:30

Bold added by me. I think that's what he meant by having "beaten" Christianity,
Yep wheras the church originally had the power to say "only Christians can live here "
then they went to say "only the right kind of Christians and Portugese Jews can live here"
to go on for the State to say " hey who wants to apply for citizenship?"
It would support his position , though the mistake was made of applying broad comments to a whole continent ,he did have a point , but not very well put.

Redleg

07-31-2007, 00:17

Bold added by me. I think that's what he meant by having "beaten" Christianity, Red. Whereas before the Church had the power to dictate to people (and governments) how they should live their lives, now it really has very little power, and secular governments are the name of the game.

Correct - however one must look into why and how the margianization of the church happened. Some was done by the people in an attempt to negate what influence the church has within the government and one must realize that the church also has evolved away from such methods also.