EB July New Units Preview [Archive]

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 00:04

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.

Work is as always being done on EB and today we show off some of our latest units. Enjoy some of these latest units that will appear in next release.

Thanks goes out to our great unit artists alin, stefan25, Xprime, and blank Please give them as much credit as possible!

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http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/9/7/17/t_africanforem_2dbda32.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img37&img=/9/7/17/f_africanforem_2dbda32.jpg)
African Forest Elephant - Qarthadastim

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/9/7/17/t_AsturianCanm_c9a0292.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img37&img=/9/7/17/f_AsturianCanm_c9a0292.jpg)
Asturian-Cantabrian Axeman

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/9/7/18/t_garamantinem_e97c7dd.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img34&img=/9/7/18/f_garamantinem_e97c7dd.jpg)
Garamantine Warrior

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/9/7/26/t_swebozgenerm_d7e50b4.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/7/26/f_swebozgenerm_d7e50b4.png&srv=img29)
Sweboz General

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/9/7/17/t_BosphoranThm_6c868c4.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img29&img=/9/7/17/f_BosphoranThm_6c868c4.jpg)
Thureopherontes Toxotai - Hellenistic

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/9/7/26/t_arabslingerm_dbcad0b.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/7/26/f_arabslingerm_dbcad0b.png&srv=img01)
Arabian Slingers

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/7/26/t_pahlavanarcm_79b6110.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/7/26/f_pahlavanarcm_79b6110.png&srv=img27)
Pahlavan Archers

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/9/7/17/t_Parthohellem_28b3a3f.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img27&img=/9/7/17/f_Parthohellem_28b3a3f.jpg)
Partohellenikoi Thureophoroi

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/9/7/20/t_CIFINMAXPRVm_421af55.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img40&img=/9/7/20/f_CIFINMAXPRVm_421af55.jpg)
Cohors Imperatoria(Reskin)

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/9/7/20/t_CEFINMAXPRVm_c3bddb5.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img31&img=/9/7/20/f_CEFINMAXPRVm_c3bddb5.jpg)
http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/9/7/26/t_fcess2m10f5m_8226322.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/7/26/f_fcess2m10f5m_8226322.jpg&srv=img01)
Cohors Evocata (Reskin)

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We hope you have enjoyed this preview of some of the new units and content.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

We give special thanks to Picoodle (http://www.picoodle.com) that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

Bactron

07-27-2007, 00:07

Redmeth

07-27-2007, 00:09

Lovely, just lovely. A superb job by all the artists! :yes:

Wolfman

07-27-2007, 00:47

:hyperventalates: :jawdrop: These unit are awesome!

keravnos

07-27-2007, 01:33

Oh my god, I have just pissed myself. Really nice preview. Now I dont know for who I am going to play in next realese. For Pontos with their amazing new general or for Sweboz with their new amazing general?

And BTW for which faction is Partohellenikoi Thureophoroi? For Getai?

And about that Thureopherontes Toxotai - the image name says bosphoran... So is this unit greco-scythian? I remember that someone posted here something about how Athens used scythian archers. So this will be such kind of unit?

ParthoHellenikoi Thureophoroi=(parthian-greek thureos shield carriers) is a unit that represents the 300.000 greek colonists who stayed behind in the area that now is Iraq, when the Pahlavan (Parthians) took over, (and ingame other areas that they might conquer too) They represent an evolution from the hoplites and Thureophoroi, to the more persian clad infantry that fought alongside their famous cavalry later on. We know that there were a lot of Greeks who retained their identity until much, much later, as Trajan fought both Greeks and Pahlavan in his conquest of the Messopotamia. Evidence has shown Greeks and Pahlavan to be shackled back to back under a Roman triumphal banner.

They are Greeks admitted into some Pahlavan clans fighting along their Pahlavan overlords against their enemies, getting more and more Persianised as time went on.

Thureopherontes Toxotai (thureos carrying archers) (or the famous T.. I mentioned earlier) are another "melange" unit. They are greeks, rich greeks from the cities in present day Ukraine, who got rich from trading with the mainland, but who, along with the hoplite tradition of their motherland, were also influenced by the archery of the Steppes. There were funeral steles found on present day Ukraine that have both those, thureoi and bows/arows, honouring the dead in battle Thureopherontes Toxotai.

Lovejoy

07-27-2007, 01:52

Awesome! As always. Keep it up! :2thumbsup:

paullus

07-27-2007, 03:02

Rather, most of the people whom we would identify as these thureopherontes toxotai were more likely significantly Hellenized Skythians, not vice versa, if naming patterns are any indication. Still, by that point, Skythian-influenced Hellenes and Hellenized Skythians were not tremendously different, at least not in places like Pantikapaion. Similar I suppose, in some respects, to the soldiers represented by the Parthohellenikoi Thureophoroi.

The Celt

07-27-2007, 03:07

Aww...:embarassed: I was so hoping there'd would be Keltikoi Kataphractoi in this preview. Oh well, my crusade goes on!:2thumbsup:

Great preview guys.~;)

pezhetairoi

07-27-2007, 03:13

I squee at the Roman cohorts! For one, a fact that shows how far EB has come is how lifelike the face inside the helmet of the Imperatoria legionnaire has become. If that is going to be what I see in the battle map when I zoom in, I am going to cry with joy.

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 03:20

The reskinning of some Romani units was purely greedy on the Roman team members parts, but we felt some mistakes needed to be corrected, and Xprime did a beautiful job improving the asthetics of the units he did, great work as always. The little details on the new cohors are what makes them stand out to me, wether from the silvering on his belt or the details of the pugio or the mail-scarf around his neck!

Spoofa

07-27-2007, 03:20

what all roman units have been reskinned?

KARTLOS

07-27-2007, 03:32

who is the garamantine warrior for?

anyone who conquers the fazzan?

is there any indication that the actually dressed like that?

Teleklos Archelaou

07-27-2007, 04:01

KARTLOS

07-27-2007, 04:05

Any indication? Yeah. :laugh4: I'll let tanit reply or someone who has tanit's notes (he's on a dig I think), but we have confirmation on that unit's appearance (the development art pic specifically) from a quite famous historian of the region (works on the Fazzan Project), so we feel pretty sure about it. :grin:

what all roman units have been reskinned?

cool, sounds very interesting. they just looked a bit over-wild to me! i thought they farmed cotton.

Omanes Alexandrapolites

07-27-2007, 08:14

Brilliant preview - as always :thumbsup:

Cybvep

07-27-2007, 08:38

Great preview, as always. A question: what kind of axe does Asturian-Cantabrian Axeman have? It looks quite interesting, although strange O_o.

Thaatu

07-27-2007, 09:40

Awesome units, really filling the map. :2thumbsup:
Will the Carthagian elephants have archers or javelineers in the tower?

Swordmaster

07-27-2007, 09:57

Kick-ass. As a true Romanophile I had to shed a tear when I saw those new skins. Superb, truly superb.

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

07-27-2007, 10:01

Thaatu

07-27-2007, 11:05

Uh... Wouldn't want to be hit with that.

I Am Herenow

07-27-2007, 11:32

(The Asturian-Cantabrian Axeman are holding both an axe and a javalin at the same time, so that is why it looks funny.)

As far as the axe goes, here is the example axe (posted by Dux Corvanus):
http://premium1.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan//pie_00000681.jpg

Great preview, guys, but just one thing: how come this axe's handle stops at the axe head, whereas with the actual unit, there's a bit more handle coming out through and past the axe head?

Cheers :beam:

Redmeth

07-27-2007, 11:50

You just quoted your response, it's the javelin held in the same hand as the axe, look closer.

Pius Curus

07-27-2007, 12:25

I Am Herenow

07-27-2007, 12:31

You just quoted your response, it's the javelin held in the same hand as the axe, look closer.

Oh yeah - my mistake! :oops:

JeffBag

07-27-2007, 13:22

Foot

07-27-2007, 13:35

Who did the Romani reskins? Is it a new EB member? I don't think I've seen that style in EB before. Personally, I think that the chainmail texture could be better, but everything else, especially those shield textures, are incredibly sexy.

Xprime, he came in from OR, and has been most productive for us. We really want to start on MTW2 units, as he's really wanting to use the higher detailed models and larger textures we'll be able to utilise. But even on a 1000 poly count model and 256x256 texture his work really shines through.

Foot

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 13:38

Xprime did the Romani work. The hamata looks almost identical to the artifact examples we gave him to work by, and we're very satisfied with it. Xprime is not a new member, but you've seen him mostly do work on FMs before and bodyguard units. His attention on the Romani was a result of us basically stealing him for a month or two.

The scutum was taken from historical example, and was held as such in order to be used as much as a weapon thrusting as a defensive piece of equipment. It could also more easily be rested on the ground in such a fashion, and raised when in use.

ElectricEel

07-27-2007, 14:20

Great work. I like the roman units, in particular.

Aren't the arabian slingers a reskin, even though they are not marked as such on the preview?

paullus

07-27-2007, 14:41

But the Swebos general looks slightly cultivated, civilized. I think that he could looks more animal and natural.

Thanks for your compliments on the other units, and I hope someone can answer your questions concerning the positioning of the scutum. As for the Sweboz general, why particularly do you feel it is important he should look "animal" and "natural"? Even though the archaeological record from Germanic lands in the Pre-Roman period are quite scanty, the amount of good quality metalwork (chain mail, swords, buckles, fibulae, etc) found in richer contexts solidly confirms to us that the wealthier warriors of the Sweboz (such as the Family Member/General) were able to afford both locally produced metal accoutrements, and imported (and perhaps locally modified) materials, like the chain mail, sword, and helm. While Germanic kings were not living in the palaces of Alexandreia or Roma, many of them did sit on top of the amber route, and had managed to accrue considerable wealth over the centuries from that position, wealth which they used to create good quality local goods, or to import prized goods from other areas. I hope that helps, and thanks again for the comments!

Tellos Athenaios

07-27-2007, 14:45

I have one question, how the Romans Legionary carry the shield? I have read that he carried the shield from down to up (if you look on his fore arm) , no from up to down as we can see on the pictures. Is it true or not?

Well, I happend to carry a replica of such a shield a year or so back - and not knowing about shield-carrying techniques at al, I held it as you described "from up to down". It simply seemed to me the most convenient way of holding it, especially after I had held the cavalry shield which is heavy. Though, admittedly the replicas I held were replicas of later legionaries, those who did wear the pathetic segmentata.
So I merely pressume this to be the way the earlier guys held their shields. :shrug:

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 14:46

Indeed, see my response above :)

blitzkrieg80

07-27-2007, 15:00

(ah- Paullus beat me to it...)

Well, first of all, the Germanic peoples were no less "civilized" than any other culture during EB's timeframe, unless living in a city and having a non-barter trading system is your definition of "civilized."

The idea behind this Sweboz FM or King/ đruxtīnaz (literally "lord of the warband") is accruate representation of the true elite of the Germanic warband system, which we know surely existed at EB's timeline through the support of ample evidence in linguistics and persistence of warband terminology. Booty, status, and favor are driving forces behind the warband structure, so there would be quite a deal of wealth concentrated at the top. With evidence of rich Celtic neighbors and linguistic evidence of borrowing vocabulary and thus use of Celtic advanced metallurgy, it can easily be asserted that the small aristocracy was not very different from their Celtic neighbors, concerning metalcraft: weapon and jewelry.

The FM has clothes made from animals, so do you mean he should be naked like an animal, or he should be licking himself? Sorry for the sarcasm, but your phrase was rather vague, but I'm guessing you are probably referring to rough animal-skin/fur, but animal-skin is something a rich peasant could easily have had and is that really very worthy of the highest ranking member of a huge population of creative/resourceful people? There is no reason to think that the Germanics had to borrow textile technology from any source or that there was a huge improvement in textile technology between EB's time and the Dark Ages, so it is by great effort an attempt has been made to correctly portray a peoples who show themselves to be quite rich in textiles, art and culture, despite being potrayed as animalistic savages by propoganda of Roman and Classical sources. Just to add, we did NOT use anything from the Dark Ages, despite it being a great example of how seemingly primitive people had quite sophisticated culture and textiles, besides actually being very similar to EB's timeline and Germanic.

We are not trying to portray that every Germanic man looked as this individual but there is no reason to think that aristocrats would have looked similar to peasants or even close to the slightly higher than peasant middle-class craftsman and such... The whole point of being an aristocrat is thinking you're better than everyone else and looking the part. There is absolutely no evidence of egalitarianism amongst the Germanic peoples, despite being unique in their freedom and curbing of autocratic powers. Agricultural comminuties by their very nature are not egalitarian and the only reason there isn't a multitude of archaeological graves of noblemen is the sheer lack of finds in general, especially considering the huge population those few that have been found are suppose to represent. It is unfortunate coincidence that all of the best archaeology is of the lower classes concerning Germanic peoples and it may very well have been that they were a large class, but similarly, the Romans had a huge lower class and it would be inappropriate to portray Roman family members as Velites.

I Am Herenow

07-27-2007, 15:01

What does OR and FM mean?

Redmeth

07-27-2007, 15:36

OR=Ortus Romani a mod group that worked on a M2TW mod set in the Classical Period. They folded into EB a while back.
FM=Family Member

I Am Herenow

07-27-2007, 16:09

Cheers, and in that case, what does "ortus" mean? :beam:

Redmeth

07-27-2007, 16:12

Ortus=Google

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

07-27-2007, 17:11

The Asturian-Cantabrian Axeman look very very very realistic and historic, the same Thureopherontes Toxotai - Hellenistic and Romans Cohors too!

But the Swebos general looks slightly cultivated, civilized. I think that he could looks more animal and natural.

I have one question, how the Romans Legionary carry the shield? I have read that he carried the shield from down to up (if you look on his fore arm) , no from up to down as we can see on the pictures. Is it true or not? It is not life nessesary and I cant be a hairsplitter and bullshit seeker as Sherlock Holmes was:holmes:, it is only my question for forum.

Ah, I see, it took me a while to work out what you meant, you mean palm up with knuckles facing inward as opposed to palm downward with knuckles facing out.

I have it on good authority that the former way is a good way to break your elbow, while it may seem more convenient for carrying the reality is that it makes the shield virtually useless because it cannot be manuvered and you can't effectively crouch behind it.

The way we have it is correct and it is the way experimental archaeologists do it, I expect the book you read was out of date.

Imperator

07-27-2007, 17:41

I haven't been around recently, so I only saw the July preview yesterday...and now this...If only, if ONLY I had my laptop with me, I'd play the h*** out of EB right now. Those skins are gorgeus, and I've no doubt they are accurate to boot. Those Roman skins are particularly nice- my deepest and warmest congratulations to the skinner, he (or she, I suppose, but I sorta assume it's a he) really makes them look so real, so deep, so fully-dimensioned it makes me shudder. Incredible work, really. EB has so many incredible ideas- and clearly has some remarkable people behind it- so I suppose it's no surprise that (in my opinion) EB as it is now, is already twice the game RTW, MTWII, or any other mod is. Really spectacular work (makes me wish I wasn't so dumb/lazy so I could lend a hand...if only I could mod :wall:) you guys really have a lot to be proud of. :2thumbsup:

(sorry for the speech...no wonder EB spreads their previews out on a monthly basis, look what two previews in two days can make people do :clown: )

locutuslavita

07-27-2007, 18:23

awesome preview guys!
just on question: When these new romani units will for the testudo, will you see the black thing atop their helmet go through the shield (as for the post marian legionaires?

Janius

07-27-2007, 18:33

Congratz for the skinners, brilliant work as always :yes:

I especially like those Romani reskins, the details are fenominal.
Are those 256x256 or 512x512 textures that have been used?

I wonder if Xprime also reskinned the Cohors Reformata...

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 18:37

You'll have to keep wondering. And they are 256 textures. Pretty great, huh?

abou

07-27-2007, 18:39

awesome preview guys!
just on question: When these new romani units will for the testudo, will you see the black thing atop their helmet go through the shield (as for the post marian legionaires?
I don't think we know yet. They aren't in the internal builds yet. Should be in our next internal release though because Xprime is really good about uploading units and getting them to Spendios, who integrates them.

Congratz for the skinners, brilliant work as always :yes:

I especially like those Romani reskins, the details are fenominal.
Are those 256x256 or 512x512 textures that have been used?

I wonder if Xprime also reskinned the Cohors Reformata...All our units except for the generals are 256x256. Sometimes we want to go up to 512x512, but we don't want to make the game even more resource intensive for players without super computers.

As for the reformata... wait and see.:beam:

Janius

07-27-2007, 18:54

You'll have to keep wondering. And they are 256 textures. Pretty great, huh?

I'll will keep wondering then :beam:

If Xprime is able to get this detail with only 256x256, his models in EB2 will blow us all away :2thumbsup:

Maeran

07-27-2007, 18:59

I feel like the little child who missed the birthday cake.

Where are these pictures?

Zaknafien

07-27-2007, 19:02

uh, the first page of this thread, probably?

Maeran

07-27-2007, 19:20

Not for me they're not. Firefox shows nothing but the text. The same page in IE gives me 11 red crosses.

Janius

07-27-2007, 19:21

Your firewall might be blocking them :book:

Tellos Athenaios

07-27-2007, 19:44

In which case you should turn off the blocking of refferals.

Kepper

07-27-2007, 19:54

Great preview guys i cant wait to play the next version EB:2thumbsup:

Lysander13

07-28-2007, 04:52

Beautiful artwork on all the units. The Romani reskin looks great and these guys.....The Asturian-Cantabrian Axeman...this unit to me looks simply amazing.

Xehh II

07-28-2007, 06:24

these units look awesome, but what faction is that axeman?

Bactron

07-28-2007, 09:18

"these units look awesome, but what faction is that axeman?"

I am guessing that he will be an regional unit - available in the northern province of Iberia (Cantabria).

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

07-28-2007, 10:29

"these units look awesome, but what faction is that axeman?"

I am guessing that he will be an regional unit - available in the northern province of Iberia (Cantabria).
I checked, and currently they are set for Luso, Carth, Aedui, and Arverni.

spirit_of_rob

07-28-2007, 11:57

Awesome units, really filling the map. :2thumbsup:
Will the Carthagian elephants have archers or javelineers in the tower?

Depends on the type of Elephant what the crew are armed with there are two crew variants javlin armed and bow armed i forget which that is tho

Ludens

07-28-2007, 12:10

Stunning. I especially like faded-gaudy look of the Sweboz general, but the new legionaries and the Arabian slinger look very good as well.

NeoSpartan

07-28-2007, 17:23

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2thumbsup:

sgsandor

07-29-2007, 02:29

You guys are friggin' dope! I take my hat off to you guys! Wow! One question...When do we get to play it?

abou

07-29-2007, 02:44

It's a surprise.

Tanit

07-29-2007, 11:37

cool, sounds very interesting. they just looked a bit over-wild to me! i thought they farmed cotton.

For the Garamantine unit we were unhappy with the depiction shown in most mods as it comes froma drawing that is a conglomeration of different periods and cultures but nothing firmyl Garamantian. So we decided to go deeper and try to find out the truth about the Garamantian's appearance. In order to do this we contacted Professor David Mattingly who works on excavations in Libya including the Garamantine capital of Garama. He was very helpful and supplied us with images of Garamantine rock art from our period of history as well as information regarding the economy and military of Garama at the time and stuff on their cultural dress. He also showed us images from Egyption paintings of Libyans that are very similar to the rock art and help to give us a better image of the appearance of the Garamantines. I am not sure if the images he showed us are published or not yet so I have to check before I post them. Posting unpublished material in archaeology is a really big no no.

Digby Tatham Warter

07-29-2007, 12:43

It's a surprise.
I am surprised you didn't ask him how long a bit of string is.

Nice to see that Karthies Forest Nellie, will now be getting a Howda and extra fire power.

If the textures in EB are mainly 256x256, then what will they be in EB2, 512x512?

Congrat's to all you EB's, on the further advancement of your hard labours.

Cheers,
Digby.

Basileus Seleukeia

07-29-2007, 13:46

Nice to see that Karthies Forest Nellie, will now be getting a Howda and extra fire power. Digby.
A question to the EB team: Wasn't the original reason why the Carthies did not have howdas on their elephants the one that they didin't use those? Just wondering.

Bactron

07-29-2007, 14:18

For the Garamantine unit we were unhappy with the depiction shown in most mods as it comes froma drawing that is a conglomeration of different periods and cultures but nothing firmyl Garamantian. So we decided to go deeper and try to find out the truth about the Garamantian's appearance. In order to do this we contacted Professor David Mattingly who works on excavations in Libya including the Garamantine capital of Garama. He was very helpful and supplied us with images of Garamantine rock art from our period of history as well as information regarding the economy and military of Garama at the time and stuff on their cultural dress. He also showed us images from Egyption paintings of Libyans that are very similar to the rock art and help to give us a better image of the appearance of the Garamantines. I am not sure if the images he showed us are published or not yet so I have to check before I post them. Posting unpublished material in archaeology is a really big no no.

Wow that is quite a story. You guys rocks (and so doe's Professor Mattingly)! Really the dedication, the talent, the will etc., you have it all.

LusitanianWolf

07-29-2007, 17:58

AWESOME!!!!!!!!:jawdrop:
I want the next release!!!!! Congrats to the team!!

KARTLOS

07-29-2007, 21:59

For the Garamantine unit we were unhappy with the depiction shown in most mods as it comes froma drawing that is a conglomeration of different periods and cultures but nothing firmyl Garamantian. So we decided to go deeper and try to find out the truth about the Garamantian's appearance. In order to do this we contacted Professor David Mattingly who works on excavations in Libya including the Garamantine capital of Garama. He was very helpful and supplied us with images of Garamantine rock art from our period of history as well as information regarding the economy and military of Garama at the time and stuff on their cultural dress. He also showed us images from Egyption paintings of Libyans that are very similar to the rock art and help to give us a better image of the appearance of the Garamantines. I am not sure if the images he showed us are published or not yet so I have to check before I post them. Posting unpublished material in archaeology is a really big no no.

thanks for the reply.

who wil they be available for?

Tellos Athenaios

07-29-2007, 23:03

If the textures in EB are mainly 256x256, then what will they be in EB2, 512x512?

M2TW uses 1024x1024, but that space is used to store all internal units variations as well. So, effectively it amounts to a number of 512x512 textures packed in a bigger one. Or so I thought one of the artists explained.

Tellos Athenaios

07-29-2007, 23:04

thanks for the reply.

who wil they be available for?

Carthies & Eleutheroi, at least.

abou

07-29-2007, 23:08

Yup, four 512x512 variant skins.

adishee

07-30-2007, 02:43

I don't think we know yet. They aren't in the internal builds yet. Should be in our next internal release though because Xprime is really good about uploading units and getting them to Spendios, who integrates them.

All our units except for the generals are 256x256. Sometimes we want to go up to 512x512, but we don't want to make the game even more resource intensive for players without super computers.

As for the reformata... wait and see.:beam:

Oh please! Those are 512s :yes:

paullus

07-30-2007, 05:34

nerp...you should've seen the 512 versions!

russia almighty

07-30-2007, 07:45

I could have sworn that RTW was limited to 256x256 or is that just mod gentlemen's agree .

anyway the most interesting unit so far is the parthian auxiliary . TPC didn't lie on GFAQS about Parthia getting pimped out .

Pius Curus

07-30-2007, 09:55

@Philipvs Valliendervs Calicula

I did not await so many notes to my innocent questions. I am very sorry of my mistake, I have found the book...scutum was carried really "from up to down", but it is strange, that in early medieval period the "almond shield" was carried from "from down to up".

Hooahguy

07-30-2007, 18:30

i like the units, but i think the plume of the cohors imperatoria should be taken off and the shields a little bigger. other than that- awesome! great work!

Foot

07-30-2007, 18:37

i like the units, but i think the plume of the cohors imperatoria should be taken off and the shields a little bigger. other than that- awesome! great work!

I mean, is there a reason for that? That's not a productive thing to say really. Do you have evidence that their shields are the wrong size, or that they shouldn't have plumes?

Foot

Hooahguy

07-30-2007, 18:45

I mean, is there a reason for that? That's not a productive thing to say really. Do you have evidence that their shields are the wrong size, or that they shouldn't have plumes?

Foot

according to Adrian Goldsworthy, plumes for the regular solders started to die out by Augustus time.with the shields, they just look better when theyre bigger.

Foot

07-30-2007, 18:52

Yeah, nevermind, saw the discussion over at the TWC. I guess others can take it up, I imagine there won't be any changing though, the roman guys have put a lot of work into these units.

Foot

Hooahguy

07-30-2007, 18:54

its ok- i guess ill just have to deal with it :laugh4:

Zaknafien

07-30-2007, 23:48

Plumes are here to stay. Shield sizes are taken from recreations of period shields. What makes you think its too small, just out of curiosity?

geala

07-31-2007, 13:49

Really great! When will... (don't answer).

If you will not give the Garamantine warrior also to the Ptolemaioi regional MICs, it will be the first time I have to play Quart-Hadast.:beam: Is it a javelinman? It seems to be and I hope so.

I'm not so aware of the Roman units, but does the lost of the feminalia on the posted units mean that this questionable piece of cloth/leather will also (and with even more reason) disappear on the Marian units?:2thumbsup:

The scutum of the Cohors Imperatoria is not the older oval scutum, but the transitionary form with straight small sides. Apparently it was considerably shorter than the older scuti. I have more problems with the shield of the Cohors Evocata, being of the older oval type (?). At first glance I would say a longer one (from ankle to the shoulder) would please my feelings more, but I would never argue with the specialists about it. Maybe my feelings come from the memory of the D. Ahenobarbus altar, being some earlier.

I have a question about the Arabian slinger. Does not A. Marcellinus wrote somewhere that many Arabian warriors walked half-naked? Don't know where I read it. The depicted guy is wearing a lot of cloth instead. (Btw I don't think that wearing many clothes makes a human a better one or even more civilised, so don't get me wrong in that way that I thought, the Arabians were primitive). I'm just wondering about your sources.

The Sweboz general is fine. I'm just fighting these bloody German barbarians :beam: and hope to see this gentle leader of my foes soon. As a sidenote: I would not say that the Germanic tribes of the EB era were civilised. They had a culture and no culture is more worth than another, but civilisation for me is connected with a more differentiated society, a form of public life with real citizens beyond tribal loyality and at least partly urban culture. So perhaps the Celts were civilised but not the Germans. It is not necessary to be too politically correct, otherwise every definition (which means distinction) gets lost. That does not mean the Germans were not proper clad, armed and armoured if it could be afforded.

Edit: Another question. The Thureopherontes Toxotai, how will he handle his shield when shooting with the bow? Is it held in the left hand still or slung around the back?

Summary: I cannot wait for the next EB release...:yes:

Hooahguy

07-31-2007, 15:23

Plumes are here to stay. Shield sizes are taken from recreations of period shields. What makes you think its too small, just out of curiosity?

well, i looked into the subject, and i found out i was wrong about the shields. you had the size right- 3.3 feet in length, 2.75 feet in width.

as for the plumes, im gonna fight that tooth and nail. the type of helmet that is shown for the cohors imperatoria is the Coolus-pattern helmet. i dont have the exact quote from Adrian Goldsworthy, but here is all i can remember about what he said, about creasts and plumes during the Principate:
“Crests were prized objects for soldiers…. crests on the helmets for soldiers during the Principate were strictly for parades, not battle.”

Hooahguy

07-31-2007, 15:47

a question- will the praetorians be reskinned too? and will they have crests on their helmets this time?

Zaknafien

07-31-2007, 18:17

well, a crest is not a plume, you know. I'll respond in depth later but I have to go back to work.

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

08-01-2007, 00:01

well, i looked into the subject, and i found out i was wrong about the shields. you had the size right- 3.3 feet in length, 2.75 feet in width.

as for the plumes, im gonna fight that tooth and nail. the type of helmet that is shown for the cohors imperatoria is the Coolus-pattern helmet. i dont have the exact quote from Adrian Goldsworthy, but here is all i can remember about what he said, about creasts and plumes during the Principate:
“Crests were prized objects for soldiers…. crests on the helmets for soldiers during the Principate were strictly for parades, not battle.”

Coolus helms don't really mount crests like the later IG helms, they have knobs better suited to feather/horsehair plumes. Such plumes were quite cheat, you just need a horse with a black tail.

Later, the box mounted crests were usually not worn because they were easily damaged and quite expensive. It's worth noting that we cannot be sure exactly what type of crest the Legionaries wore.

In EB the Praetorians wear the later IG helm, which is why they do not have crests or plumes. Those units which require changes are reskinned, the list of units require such changes is still under review. I do not wish to say whether or not a unit will be changed until that unit has actually been altered.

As to Goldsworthy, he is far too general in many cases and makes far too many statements, such as the one you posted. Most of his commonly accessable books are designed for the interested layman. His "Complete" Roman Army, for example, glosses over the difference between the early and late 3rd Century.

As to the size of the Evocata's Scuta, it's as exact as our artist could make it.

Hooahguy

08-01-2007, 14:15

thanks for the info- i guess ill just have to make do with the plumes- or whatever you call them. but i am curious- can you cite your sources for your evidence that legionaries during the early Principate had plumes or whatever you call it, on their Coolus helmets?

ps- im pleased that the evocata wont have the IG helmets, as they do now. so to summarize, im pleased with the work in general (cant wait to use them!:grin: ) and they look fantastic- so life like! :2thumbsup:

Hooahguy

08-01-2007, 14:17

As to Goldsworthy, he is far too general in many cases and makes far too many statements, such as the one you posted. Most of his commonly accessable books are designed for the interested layman. His "Complete" Roman Army, for example, glosses over the difference between the early and late 3rd Century.

then which historians do you think are reliable?

abou

08-01-2007, 16:34

Goldsworthy is fine, but, as Philip said, he is too general. His latest book Caesar is great and I recommend it, but for an analysis of the Roman army you are going to need to look somewhere else. Stay away from Osprey though. They have a book published about the Republican army, but they kept showing plates with details from the Sacrifice and Census portion of the Altar from the Temple of Neptune (previously known as the "Altar of Domitius Ahenobarbus"), which has been dated to ~100 BC.

Hooahguy

08-01-2007, 17:32

o ya- IIRC, in recent excavations of the site of the disaster of the Teutoberg Forest, a number of Coolus helmets have been found, without horsehair plumes, or whatever you call them. and IIRC, horsehair doesnt decay, so i guess this is proof there were no horsehair plumes during the principate, but i may be wrong.

as a side request- can you make the Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers darker? they are so white they make my eyes bleed! :laugh4:
no, seriously, they are really light-colored.

Tellos Athenaios

08-01-2007, 17:38

Perhaps you have your brightness levels too high? I've adjusted my monitor settings to correct levels, and the skirmishers display just fine (without the head-hurting white-out).

Hooahguy

08-01-2007, 17:38

is the brightness level in the options menu?

paullus

08-01-2007, 17:40

yeah i think so...and who are the hellenic heavy skirmishers? peltastai?

Hooahguy

08-01-2007, 17:47

ya- they are- pretty good soldiers too! :grin:

ConanCromsen

08-01-2007, 18:01

Nice Pictures! Nice Work!
When is the EB 1.0 release? :download:

Foot

08-01-2007, 18:07

Nice Pictures! Nice Work!
When is the EB 1.0 release? :download:

EB 1.0 will be released shortly after it is done.

Foot

Swordmaster

08-01-2007, 22:43

is the brightness level in the options menu?

It should be on your monitor.

Hooahguy

08-02-2007, 00:06

It should be on your monitor.

thanks- i couldnt find it on the options menu! :laugh4:

Hooahguy

08-02-2007, 00:24

ok- so before i "surrender" to the makers of this game about the plume argument, can someone associated with the historical accuracy of the game cite the source they used that convinced them to put plumes on the helmets on the cohors imperatoria? :study:

Zaknafien

08-02-2007, 00:44

just some food for throught for you, I dont have time to dig into our sources right now. But you know that the horsehair plumes and crests were probably not even horsehair and were in fact fabricated much like the wolf pelts believed to have been worn by the velites and later antesignani.

however, I can tell you that the Imperial Gallic and Imperial Italic helmets had plume-tubes on the side of the bowl which could receive decorative plumes in addition to the forked crest-box holders. Now, no example of a crest-box has survived from this period, but we know they were widespread (and plumes) due to their placement on the helmets. An excellent plume tube was found at Rheingonheim, for example. Soldiers on the relief formerly known as the Altar of Domitus Ahenobarbus wear long, presumably horse-hair plumes that hang down the rear of the helmet to the shoulders.

If you read Ceasar, he recalls an attack by the Nervii which was so rapid that the legionaries did not have enough time to either remove their shield covers, nor afix their 'insgnia' , a term which probably refers to helmet plumes.

It might intrest you to know that, curiously enough, no fittings have been identified that might have belonged to a transverse crest worn by centurions.

Hooahguy

08-02-2007, 00:59

If you read Ceasar, he recalls an attack by the Nervii which was so rapid that the legionaries did not have enough time to either remove their shield covers, nor afix their 'insgnia' , a term which probably refers to helmet plumes.
but that was during the marian era, not principate

It might intrest you to know that, curiously enough, no fittings have been identified that might have belonged to a transverse crest worn by centurions.

o- wow- i didnt know that thats pretty interesting- thanks!

Hooahguy

08-02-2007, 01:01

well, i guess ill be "surrendering"....:surrender2:
now that i look less objectivly at it, i actually think that they look pretty cool w/ the plumes... but they look almost exactly like the evocata. was that intentional?

Tanit

08-02-2007, 17:21

In response to the earlier question the Garamantines are a regional and thus available to anyone who conquers Garama. Also look out because more African locals are coming to an EB near you.

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

08-02-2007, 21:19

...were in fact fabricated much like the wolf pelts believed to have been worn by the velites and later antesignani.
They were fabricated? That's cool. I have always been a bit worried about the thousands of poor wolves that had to die for those velites.:no:

What about the bear-furs weared by the Signiferes and Aquiliferes? I once heard that the Romans had a corps of Ursarii especially for the purpose of getting enough bear-skins for the Legions.

Hooahguy

08-03-2007, 22:02

ok- i got some evidence which proves both of us right- in the book "Warfare in the Classical World" John Warry writes that plumes were still used during Augustus time during battle, but shortly afterwards they were restricted to parades. so i guess both of us are right. :2thumbsup:

Tellos Athenaios

08-03-2007, 22:52

Now, that's the beauty of a topic such as 'the world back then'. ~;)

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

08-04-2007, 00:35

but that was during the marian era, not principate

There are two things that make us think they probably had a simple plume well into the Principate, firstly there's not real reason not to, soldiers had been wearing sugh for centuries, secondly, we know Centurians and other Officers wore their more complicated crests. Overall the evidence suggest that they wore a simple plume, probably of undyed horsehair or maybe dyed wool. We cannot, however, say for certain. At the same time though I can't tell you who was and was not using the old Republic Scutum, it may have been abandoned around the time of Caesar or have still been in use at the death of Augustus.

Tellos Athenaios

08-04-2007, 05:06

Wasn't the scutum retained for cavalry auxilia, or am I confusing it with another, similiar type of shield?

Zalmoxis

08-04-2007, 19:09

I like that Sweboz general, great job guys :2thumbsup:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

08-04-2007, 19:43

Wasn't the scutum retained for cavalry auxilia, or am I confusing it with another, similiar type of shield?

You're confused. The Cavalry used a shield rather like a large theouros, pretty much the same as the Infantry Auxillia.

paullus

08-04-2007, 22:14

I like that Sweboz general, great job guys :2thumbsup:

Thanks! I hope we'll have several nice new things for the Sweboz, the general being one of the most important. Judging from your name, you may be pleased to know there have been several new things for the Getai as well. :2thumbsup:

russia almighty

08-05-2007, 01:58

^Like that unit in your sig ?

Tellos Athenaios

08-05-2007, 02:28

How come? ... What sig? :grin:

paullus

08-05-2007, 14:05

a what?

I Am Herenow

08-05-2007, 14:10

In other words, will that ginger guy* be in the game?

* An artist's impression of the aforementioned ginger guy:

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/9/8/5/f_Getaipicturm_3749b53.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/5/f_Getaipicturm_3749b53.png&srv=img29)

Tellos Athenaios

08-05-2007, 16:17

Before I say yes or no, I need to know if you can find the preview by yourself. Hint: development.

Pius Curus

08-06-2007, 11:46

Kahju

08-07-2007, 15:05

http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/5/fido79/f_UnknownWarrm_485ec95.jpg&srv=img02

ehm...it is my small piece. I dont know what I penciled for a warior, someone could help me with indetification? I mean he could be a Samnite warior, with some equipment of roman hastat. Maybe he got this equipment after successfull battle against conceited Romans:)

It looks like he's passed out on a table!

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/9/8/5/fido79/f_UnknownWarrm_485ec95.jpg

http://www.paulspond.com/journalimages/sleepybrian2.jpg

Sorry. (not)

Thaatu

08-07-2007, 17:56

Hmm.. A self portrait perhaps?

Hooahguy

08-07-2007, 17:58

well, that does look like a very comfortable ping-pong table.... :laugh4:

Pius Curus

08-08-2007, 13:11

Hey Kahju:) That is really cool sleep position:) I saw somewhere on web drunk positions, but you found new one:)
The picture is wrong scaned:-/ It should looks like lunge from behind the shield:)...but it should be:) Could you write me how can I place the picture directly into the forum without prolink, pls?
Thx

Kahju

08-08-2007, 15:12

Hey, that guy's not me! It's just a random picture I found on the Internet. When I saw Pius' drawing, I immediately noticed how the guy he drew seemed to be sleeping on a table, so I used Google to search for a similar RL picture. Unfortunately, I had to browse through hundreds of "drunk passed out hot teen girls abused xxx" pictures before I found anything suitable.

Could you write me how can I place the picture directly into the forum without prolink, pls?

Use the button on the button row. Sorry, I can't give any better advice. But it isn't hard.

Anastasios Helios

08-10-2007, 07:16

Sweet...can't wait for the new units to be released.

Rundownloser

08-10-2007, 08:24

Who are those cloaked folks fighting the evocata in the last picture? Are they another new unit?

Altogether, the units look awesome. Right out of the park.

geala

08-10-2007, 10:07

In response to the earlier question the Garamantines are a regional and thus available to anyone who conquers Garama. Also look out because more African locals are coming to an EB near you.

Thank you, that is very good news. Could you already say something about the locals: from the Sahara or black Africa? Nubian archers or javelinmen for instance would be great, such light troops are of good use even in the late game.:yes:

Anastasios Helios

08-10-2007, 17:30

Yeah...I was estatic when I began playing EB, my first campaign was Sabean. I was little disappointed when I saw the lack of "Black African" troops. The Nubian and Ethiopian spearmen look exactly alike except for their names. In fact, the look almost like the Nubian spearmen from RTW except for the lack of a phalanx. The Aethiopikon Agema is amazing, but the region needs something along the lines of Nubian archers/skirmishers.

Also...I am lost to why you can recruit the "Galatikoi" soldiers in Aegyptos...did they really settle so far south?

abou

08-10-2007, 17:33

Yes, and in relatively large quantities.

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

08-10-2007, 21:07

I thought they only settled the Delta.

abou

08-10-2007, 21:10

I thought they only settled the Delta.
Oh, well I wasn't sure if he meant south as in Egypt or south as in southern/upper Egypt.

paullus

08-10-2007, 21:46

no, there were galatians up and down the nile, though primarily at/near alexandreia, memphis, and in the fayum in the latter 3rd c, and then later in the thebaid as well. they were also present on kypros, and some were settled in "syria," which could refer either to galatians formerly in seleukid service at antioch, or galatians in settlements in phoinikia and iudaia. however, we will be looking for ways to limit their numbers in eb2

Anastasios Helios

08-11-2007, 05:15

Tonight, I sent a mighty army of Elite Africans and Sacred Band Horses from Carthage to retake Lepki which had recently fallen to the children of Ptolemios. In an nearby oasis the Aegyptioi ambush the children of Dido and in the dense palm forest, the Carthaginians are cut to pieces by those bloody Kelt mercenaries. Again, Carthage fails to reestablish her supremacy in Libya...

....If I don't end this campaign by sacking Galatia

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 16:17

hello to all .............

I wanted to ask the permission in order to use the file.cas of

Thureopherontes Toxotai

I want to create with it an unit of Nuragic warrior.

therefore a armed model serves me is of bow that of sword

naturally I will have to completely modify the skin of thureopherontes.

I can make it?

:help::help::help::help:

Havok.

07-24-2008, 16:20

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 16:27

Havok.

07-24-2008, 16:38

no .....I want to only recreate the nuragic warrior…

if then I will succeed to do good them and they will appeal to you I would be also content you inserted if them in E.b.

but not creed because it is the firstime that I modify the skin

I guess there's no problem at all, but since i'm not a member of the EB team, i suggest you wait a bit more, till one of them say if you can or cannot.

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 16:44

and as I make to ask it to it?

I create a new one 3d or I attend that they answer to me here?

I hope not to have to wait for much time.

Havok.

07-24-2008, 16:48

and as I make to ask it to it?

I create a new one 3d or I attend that they answer to me here?

I hope not to have to wait for much time.
Since i wont take my chances saying 'Yes, you can' just wait till one of them give you the green light

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 16:54

certainly I understand to you, Havok…. :yes::yes:

I wanted to only know if it was the possibility that they saw our argument, or if it must create a 3d in a specific section of the forum,

thanks

Havok.

07-24-2008, 16:58

certainly I understand to you, Havok…. :yes::yes:

I wanted to only know if it was the possibility that they saw our argument, or if it must create a 3d in a specific section of the forum,

thanks

EB Unofficial Modding Projects (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=129) would be more appropriate to such question, though i think in here i think you'll get your answer faster(Creating a new thread would be even quicker) also, pms are good too.

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 17:02

thanks! I create a 3d in that section and attend the permission

hallo!:beam::beam:

Havok.

07-24-2008, 17:08

thanks! I create a 3d in that section and attend the permission

hallo!:beam::beam:

Ja. :beam:

Zarax

07-24-2008, 18:39

thanks! I create a 3d in that section and attend the permission

hallo!:beam::beam:

I just hope you will make the unit a bit lighter, unless you want to represent the nuragic nobles, in that case you would need to move the unit up in the local MIC.

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 19:38

what is the local mic? .............I presume THE Sardinian army

I want to create the heavy infantry and the cavalry.....
these last ones could be recruited from the punic.........historically they formed an alliance against the Roman (Ampsicora.... Josto......for example...)

f I succeed to us I improve the shardanam of E.b in order to render them more similar to the statues…

Zarax

07-24-2008, 20:16

Local MIC = native barracks = troops that are recruited among the original population of the area.
So yes, the Nuragic army...
In any case I wouldn't mind seeing some improvements, pride aside they were still considered quite tougher than in EB description even after the punic wars: "Gaudentes et exsultantes, si taliter se in ferinas species transformaverint. Ut homis non esse videantur."

It's just too bad that every academic that studied the nuragic civilization that I queried about taking a look at EB always refused to be even hinted in being involved in something close to a computer game, it would have been so much easier for everybody...

EDIT: BTW, Cavalry? I really don't see the basis for a native cavalry force, at least not in numbers.
Sardinian geography is not exactly the best for warhorses and back then there still was only the native breed (the native ponies were and still are rugged marchers but no chargers or real runners).
On that side you might want to have some punic civic cavalry but that's pretty much it.

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 20:40

Zarax thanks for the interest that always demonstrates regarding the Nuragic civilization....

therefore you have asked for the Sardinian scholars information on this argument? who?

I'm regret. a lot for their refusal. but some of they consider their studies on that past.... sacred
others are in bad faith, and refuse also the mere hypothesis, that is hardly now making road on the Shardana… while in others you leave of the world is discussed already for a long time.

therefore I do not find their behavior strange: it is pettiness ....

dedalonur9

07-24-2008, 21:39

EDIT: BTW, Cavalry? I really don't see the basis for a native cavalry force, at least not in numbers.
Sardinian geography is not exactly the best for warhorses and back then there still was only the native breed (the native ponies were and still are rugged marchers but no chargers or real runners).
On that side you might want to have some punic civic cavalry but that's pretty much it.

you refer to the mini-horses of Giara.....
but those are of were them living, in Sardinia c' they were also of the little ones elephants, not establish on this..... for your conclusions....

we do not know when the horse was imported in Sardinia.

But the Sardinians for the horses have true cult. if a day you will come in Sardinia, you will see that in many countries the stables rise as an example near the houses…, Orgosolo. and it is a mountain country.

in Sardinia many festivities of Nuragic origin exist based on the horse. as an example S' Ardia.
http://www.sardiniapoint.it/1437.html

I have translate for you:
Perhaps laughed them quite to the nuragico period, as seem to indicate the presence in the sacred area of a bètilo (betilo= Bet-il house of god), said pedra de Santu Antine, that it represents a feminine divinity of the fertility rituals.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjrP274VP_0&feature=related

Santu Antine
it is one of the greatest and Nuraghi important of the Sardinia.
http://www.fontesarda.it/imgsarde/nursan31.jpg

moreover we have various reperti that the nuragici went to horse, in a bronze statue a knight is in feet over a horse, like in other Sardinian tradition: The Pariglia
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=vadvH4jmUT4&feature=related

this is typical askos a Sardinian one, even if they call it found villanoviano vase because in Italy
https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2696/storico003b280dcxw200h2gb9.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
this has been found in a nuragic village
https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2481/getimageof7.gif (https://imageshack.us)
the symbols of the first vase are Sardinian, and the knight has the round shield of the Sardinians

Zarax

07-24-2008, 22:11

Ok, just to establish a few things:
Bi chi soe Nugoresu, ja l'isco chi b'este sa e s'ardia, sa sartiglia e ja connosco santu antine.

That said: I'm not saying there weren't horses in Sardinia at the time, I'm just pointing that given the native resources I doubt that heavy horses went over what in RTW would be represented by the general's bodyguard.
Sardinian equestrian tradition on the other side developed in the middle ages, when norman and arabic horses were imported, creating the basis for today's anglo-arabo-sardo. Sa sartiglia is for example derived from earlier moorish and spanish cavalry contests, quite later than what has been represented in EB.

Once again, we need to distinguish between imported military styles (be it greek, etruscan or punic) from the native nuragic fighting style, which was not unlike the iberian one.
It is more likely that the bulk of the nuragic tribes at the time was made of lighter infantry than showed in bronze statues, wouldn't be surprised if the later mamuthones derived from those as the romans called them Sardi Peliti.

To those that aren't familiar with Sardinian folklore here's what I'm talking about: http://www.mamuthones.it/immagini/foto/mamuth_13.jpg
Not exactly looking like pushovers, no?

EDIT: As I realize that this subtopic was started with thread necromancy I plead a kind moderator to move the posts to a more relevant place before closing the topic.