King of the Romans OOC thread X

[Privateerkev]

I know and I was just continuing the joke. Unfortunately for me, my rather dry and unique sense of humor is hard for me to put into a text format while keeping all of the nuances intact.

As for avatars, we only have one "useless" avatar anymore. We have two other spares left that are good. And we are about to get another when a Swabian comes of age in a turn or two.

[Cecil XIX]

All this talk of marriage makes me a little nervice, as there's a polish princess right near Bran. I don't know what the odd are of a princess with a charm of 7 seducing a family member with a loyalty of 6, but I'm sure it's too close for comfort.

I did check out her stats though, and she'd give her husband the Wife is Charming, Useful, and Revered traits. So at least there's a good reward for the risk. :yes:

[StoneCold]

But if your avatar bag her, Arnold is going to be pissed... :P

[Cecil XIX]

"Hey, *she* came on to *me*! There was nothing I could do!"

[Privateerkev]

Alright, I know there is some IC discussion on this but I want to have this clear in my head OOC. What happens if a Duke dies and there is no heir and the Duke has no kids? Does the Kaiser appoint one? Rule 4.7 only talks about a Duke resigning which I assume is for OOC reasons, like if the player who is playing the Duke quits the game like Lucjan did. How does CA 11.1 fit into this? Also, can a Duke change his heir? Can he name one now and then change it?

The reason I am asking is because Ansehelm has gone off on a suicide mission and refuses to name an heir. Before I have Jan make a stink about it, I want to at least get the rules straight in my head OOC. :D

[TinCow]

Ok, going to try my battle again. Hopefully there will be no PC issues this time.

[econ21]

Alright, I know there is some IC discussion on this but I want to have this clear in my head OOC. What happens if a Duke dies and there is no heir and the Duke has no kids?

I don't think we have covered this possibility in the rules (if he also has no adopted son or son-in-law). I would say the Kaiser decides the procedure, in his capacity as interpreter of the rules.


Does the Kaiser appoint one? Rule 4.7 only talks about a Duke resigning which I assume is for OOC reasons, like if the player who is playing the Duke quits the game like Lucjan did.

The ammendment that the Kaiser appoints successors for Dukes who resigned was for in character reasons. It came about after Hummel resigned due to leading a "rebellion". It seemed odd to let a disgraced Duke pick his successor. I don't think it is relevant here, except that it provides a precedent for the Kaiser picking a Duke.


How does CA 11.1 fit into this?

If there is a dispute over how the Kaiser interprets the gap in the rules, then CA 11.1 does seem applicable.


Also, can a Duke change his heir? Can he name one now and then change it?

Yes - there's nothing in the rules about nominations being irrevocable.

[Privateerkev]

Ok, thanks!

One of the reasons Ansehelm gave for not naming an heir was his wish to eventually give it to one of his kids. He seemed to think it was a one time thing. I'm glad that is not the case.

[TinCow]

Battle Done. The Duke managed to escape with 7 other men, but that spy sitting next to the citadel did his job admirably.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1270-4.zip


https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/cagliariattack.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/results.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/lolstart.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/lolresults.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/cagliariexterm2.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/milandead.jpg
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/cagliari/famous.jpg

[StoneCold]

With how the AI is in MTW2, I am guessing Spain is going to besiege Caliari next term and be a war with the HRE.. :P

[AussieGiant]

"Hey, *she* came on to *me*! There was nothing I could do!"


You think Arnold's going to buy that line Cecil :smash: LOL

"So Sigismund, let me get this straight...you know I'm looking for a bride to continue the blood line of House Austria. Then some ultra hot Polish tart waltz's up to you and you just happen to fall on top of her while you are both completely naked??!! Is that the line your using?"

[Tamur]

Oj, nice work there TinCow, not much left of them!

[Cecil XIX]

"So Sigismund, let me get this straight...you know I'm looking for a bride to continue the blood line of House Austria. Then some ultra hot Polish tart waltz's up to you and you just happen to fall on top of her while you are both completely naked??!! Is that the line your using?"

"Yes, lord!"

Anyways, no that Milan is destroyed I'm wondering how we're going to end with other factions. I propose that we make the Venetians our vassals. As I understand it we take Thessalonica and Crete, destroy their armies in Rhodes, place a stack or three right next to rodes, then offer them Crete and a lot of money. Simple, right?

Seriously, I think it's a good idea. It would help our reputation, and be a nice little in-story 'glorious achievement. And, if Thessalonica should go to Austria, so much the better. :beam:

[AussieGiant]

Now that's a good idea Cecil!!!

Your line regarding the Polish hottie however leaves a lot to be desired Siggy!!?? :beam:

[Stig]

Ok, thanks!

One of the reasons Ansehelm gave for not naming an heir was his wish to eventually give it to one of his kids. He seemed to think it was a one time thing. I'm glad that is not the case.
No he knows he can change it, he simply does not want to unheir someone

[Cecil XIX]

It has just occurred to me that since the roster is about availability, we should post what time zone we're (usually) in as well. Also, I made map of the Reich color-coded to ducal ownership. We haven't had one of those in quite a while.

https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1610/thereichki2.png

[OverKnight]

Nice, Cecil XIX, but I think Paris is still Imperial unless I missed the announcement.

The report for 1270 has been updated:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1632582&postcount=242

I will continue on with 1272 momentarily.

[Cecil XIX]

I've finally posted the report for Sigismund's second and third battles.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1633178&postcount=128

Oh, and Paris is Swabian. Both XDeathFire and FactionHeir have posted queues for it.

[econ21]

It has just occurred to me that since the roster is about availability, we should post what time zone we're (usually) in as well.

Yes, I did wonder about that. Something about when players might usually fight their battles might be useful to Chancellors. Perhaps people could edit their entries to include something like:


Time zone: GMT (most likely to fight battles in evenings, GMT1900-2400).

[OverKnight]

Oh, and Paris is Swabian. Both XDeathFire and FactionHeir have posted queues for it.

That doesn't prove anything, the territory has to be assigned by the Emperor.


5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

So if this has been done, than Paris is Swabian, if not, it remains under the direct rule of the Kaiser. I do not recall an announcement, do you?

[Cecil XIX]

Hmm. I didn't know the Emperor could delegate build queues. But the front page of the chancellor's report does list Paris as an Imperial Possession. Ajacco too, for that matter. Here's a more accurate map. (click to enlarge)

https://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6024/thereichtk3.th.png (https://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thereichtk3.png)

[TinCow]

Hmm. I didn't know the Emperor could delegate build queues. But the front page of the chancellor's report does list Paris as an Imperial Possession. Ajacco too, for that matter. Here's a more accurate map. (click to enlarge)

https://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6024/thereichtk3.th.png (https://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thereichtk3.png)

Kaiser Siegfried gave Ajaccio to Bavaria as a thank you for supporting his claim to the throne:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1627444&postcount=518

[AussieGiant]

Right then!!

Where at war with Sicily.

The Cod piece is back on.

OK...send me in!!:whip:

Can someone send me or post up some maps of the area Arnold is in?

[Ignoramus]

Lorenzo is a fool. Now Wolfgang's fleet will get sunk. :wall:

[OverKnight]

No worries Ignoramus, Wolfgang's fleet is close to Florence and he'll be in Marseille by next turn. Of course depending on what the Spanish do, he might have to make a detour to Ajaccio.

Which brings me to. . .

Battle Queue 1272

Edit: Check for latest save.

First come first serve. Post when you take, and when you upload.

Kaiser Siegfried - Completed

You have chased down some rebels south of Magdeburg. Strike east and finish them.

Duke Gerhard

Father, you face some rebels west of Innsbruck. Feel free to use the Innsbruck garrison to assist you in putting them down.

Count Ansehelm - Completed

You have forced a large Russian Army to retreat. Strike south if you want to finish them, or you may continue east on the Novogorod road, it is your choice.

Count Fritz - Completed

You have pursued a force of Polish Nobles northwest of Thorn. Crush them.

[TinCow]

Since Sicily controls Tunis and Tripoli, we would have a good chance of peace with them after we take Naples and Palermo, since we would then no longer share a land border.

[OverKnight]

I have updated the report with the info AG was looking for.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1634700&postcount=243

[Stuperman]

Since Sicily controls Tunis and Tripoli, we would have a good chance of peace with them after we take Naples and Palermo, since we would then no longer share a land border.


TC you Mind reader.


There might be a small problem though, I won't be able to fight fight my battle for ~56 hours (sunday afternoon, eastern time GMT -5, but we're on DST so that screws it all up). I'm going to Warped tour, I was actaully going to change my status, but I thought I'd check my pm's first.

If this is a problem then I can name an alternate, or OK can fight it. The good news is that I'll have the last battle report up at the same time, the computer with all the SS's is at my GF's house. I live out in the sticks where broadband Internet is unavaiable, so I keep my gaming computer at her house so I can get my CS:S and DOD:S fix.

[OverKnight]

While I'm glad you're doing something fun, 56 hours might be too much. I'll put you at the end of the queue. If the other battles are resolved quickly, your battle will be auto-calced. If it takes some time, you might fit it in.

I could push it off until 1274, but Gerhard is needed down south.

Have Fun!

[Ignoramus]

Just a call out to the fellow KotRers that the MTW2 Multiplayer Campaign still has plenty of spots left, including the HRE, so get joining.

[Privateerkev]

Um, no one has answered yet why Swabia is posting build queues for Paris.

Is Paris Swabian?

Or are people posting queues for territories they do not control?


I didn't know the Emperor could delegate build queues.

Yup, the Kaiser posts a build queue for every territory not given to a house. Which, as far as I know, is Rome, Paris, and Sardinia.

[Stig]

Paris is not Swabian.
And Ansehelm is a duke ~D

[TinCow]

Um, no one has answered yet why Swabia is posting build queues for Paris.

Because they made a mistake.

[Privateerkev]

Ah ok, I didn't know if it was given to them. Since Swabia had less territories than the other houses, I assumed they owned Paris and the list just didn't get updated. Thanks for clearing that up. :book:

[Ituralde]

Downloading the save right now! Time to kick some rebel butt!

[Stig]

I'm also taking it now, but merely to say if I need to fight that battle, I take it I will, if I will I'll take the save after Ituralde posts again

[TinCow]

Northnovas, you're not in danger of dying anytime soon. Karl will likely live until around 1340, which is a long time off yet.

[Ituralde]

And the battle is once again fought and won!

As with the last battle I won't bother to put a Battle Report up for it. So for those interested here are the beginning and end screens of each battle:

1270: Battle against the Danes:

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/c5d3f5b98acf3ac0d30ec5e000c61e00c4dd47f6.jpg
http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/19587f09f0726e0de926d6b044d544691361e29e.jpg

1272: Battle against the Rebels:

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/5c2bac7c131cda28978cc1914847d52bb2d946a6.jpg
http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/e116bde0d1292be8ccb0fc069641b51abf9b47d9.jpg

Ironically I have holidays right now, but for some reason I am busier than usual and can't find the time to even make those two Battle Reports that I wanted to do to develop my character a little bit.

Additionally I will be on Reserve Duty for the next two weeks at least, and since my laptop decided to suddenly go crazy, I won't be able to check the forums as often as I had planned. Sorry for giving you such an inactive Kaiser to interact with at the moment. I'll stick in though, and I hope the results will be worth it. :beam:

Concerning Paris, so far I haven't given it to Swabia and their recent actions are not an encouragment. :2thumbsup:

Cheers!

Ituralde

kotr1272-1 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1272-1.zip)

[Stig]

Taking it now

[GeneralHankerchief]

Concerning Paris, so far I haven't given it to Swabia and their recent actions are not an encouragment. :2thumbsup:

I like this Kaiser.

[Cecil XIX]

So, Ajaccio is assigned to a house but hasn't had a build queue posted, but Paris isn't assigned to a house and has had two queues posted? :dizzy2: Oh well, here's the final version.

https://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8443/thereichxb9.png

Incidentally, I realized that using an all-cavalry force in Sigismund's third battle was technically against the army composition rules. Can I get a ruling on that?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I wouldn't worry about it.

Incidentally, this may because I too am guilty of this in Conrad's encounter with the Egyptian Sultan. :hide:

[Privateerkev]

Cecil, not only two build queues posted but Paris has had build queues issued by two different people in the same Diet session. Its the confused city... :beam:

[Stig]

Another great victory:
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0086.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1272-2.zip

I am still planning on a story but all is moving so quick, hence why I decided on some long messages to the Diet instead.
Least of things Helmut deserves a story written about him, if you see what he does in these battles.

[Tamur]

Wohoo, lots of battles! I'll get this one fought tonight late, and will write up both tonight or die trying. I'll post up when I take the save, again it will be somwhere around 06 GMT

[GeneralHankerchief]

A fitting end for a noble man, FLYdude. :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

I like it, it's a good counterpoint to some of our more melodramatic endings (to which I'm a guilty party). :2thumbsup:

[GeneralHankerchief]

That's probably what he was aiming for, and it means I'm gonna have to tone down Conrad's (eventual) death scene when it happens. Curses... :scastle:

[econ21]

FLYdude: which new avatar would you like now? The first post in the Chancellor and Governors thread is up to date. We have two young Swabians and Helmut von Hamburg spare.

[OverKnight]

I hate to be a pest, but this again highlights the gradual extinction of Bavaria and Austria.

Perhaps we should consider tweaking the game to make non-family generals recruitable? Myself and FactionHeir have mentioned this and I think it can be done.

[econ21]

Perhaps we should consider tweaking the game to make non-family generals recruitable?

I have no objection to that - spare avatars are thin on the ground overall, so it could help with that as well.

[OverKnight]

Cool, I'll dig around while at work for the exact mechanics and then see if I can make it work with an old save once I'm home.

Hopefully it won't be one of those things you can only do at the beginning of the game.

[TinCow]

There are currently 4 unmarried women of marriable age. 2 of them belong to Austria (Mahrens) and 1 belongs to Bavaria (Steffen). If they all three of them get married, that could easily solve the House problem for at least another generation.

[Ignoramus]

It would be lovely if a house got extinguished. Just think about the squabble in the Diet about the allocation of the house's lands.

[OverKnight]

There are currently 4 unmarried women of marriable age. 2 of them belong to Austria (Mahrens) and 1 belongs to Bavaria (Steffen). If they all three of them get married, that could easily solve the House problem for at least another generation.


That's true, but in my 5 end of turns as Chancellor, I've only had one marriage, Hedewigis to that 55 year old. Bavaria in particular will need at least stop-gap avatars until the next generation arrives, if ever.


It would be lovely if a house got extinguished. Just think about the squabble in the Diet about the allocation of the house's lands.

Lovely? I've invested too much in Bavaria to have it's bones picked over by Swabian or Franconian vultures. :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

I've mentioned this in the Diet IC.

I don't want to be rude but this type of thing in Medieval times was a BIG thing.

I'm more than likely going to push hard with Arnold.

You simply can not have an heir. Succession is the single most important thing to Lords of the Realm.

[Privateerkev]

I know that we agreed to not discussed what happen when we play ahead with save games. So, I put stuff in spoilers.

I looked ahead. The recent deaths will set things in motion. Jonas's daughters will marry. Zirn will keep having kids. Lothar will have a kid.

I do not think we have to hack the game.

[TevashSzat]

It would be lovely if a house got extinguished. Just think about the squabble in the Diet about the allocation of the house's lands.

Hmm....If I can only hire assasins like the AI does....

[AussieGiant]

Hi PK,

But its not really preferable for the Duke not to have an heir from his own family.

I'm not saying its the end, but I've not got a lot of interest in joining another House after so long.

[Tamur]

Taking the save, will post it back up in 90 mins or so.

[Cecil XIX]

I do not think we have to hack the game.

I'm not going to look. But for the love of God, tell me when it happens.

[OverKnight]

Who will rid me of this troublesome Duke? :laugh4:

Hey AussieGiant, I'm kind of disturbed that the Vader-esque Dread Knight is the voice of reason in this spat.

Still it's fun crossing swords with you. :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Who will rid me of this troublesome Duke? :laugh4:

Hey AussieGiant, I'm kind of disturbed that the Vader-esque Dread Knight is the voice of reason in this spat.

Still it's fun crossing swords with you. :2thumbsup:


LMAO!!

I'm was just about to have Bane try to reason with the Duke...you read my mind. :beam:

:duel:

[Tamur]

Fought and won, Fritz wasn't feeling too kindly so the captured Captain got the sword after the battle. Posting up results and pre-battle stats, will have to write-up tomorrow, it's late on this part of the planet.

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1272-3.zip

[OverKnight]

All the battles for 1272 have been fought except for Stuperman's. I have a lot of work to do on this turn (Spaniards, Sicilians and Mongols, oh my) so I don't know exactly when I'll get to the next turn. Most likely within 24 hours.

econ21, remember when you went on that berserk run at the end of your term and did a turn a day? How in hell did you do that?

[Ignoramus]

Privaterkeev: I'm using a Swabian page to represent the fact the although Wolfgang's banned from the Diet, his mood towards Siegfried is changing. I can't do much at sea anyway.

[Privateerkev]

Also econ, would we be able to get some of your mad mod skillz in the Diet thread? Wolfgang keeps posting in the Diet when I am pretty sure that he is still banned. I remember you saying something about deleting his posts until the Kaiser lets him back in. I am operating off of this quote by the Kaiser,


I hereby expell Wolfgang Hummel from this Diet until he apologizes for his insubordination and refutes his allegiance to Count Hans!

Ig, as far as I know, bannings include proxies. You need to have Wolfgang take this up with Kaiser Siegfried or at least the Prince.

[OverKnight]

Getting back to recruiting non-family member generals, I found this on the FAQ at the official forums.


Question #36: How do I recruit generals?

Answer #36: It is very easy to mod the game so that you can recruit generals. Just add this to your export_descr_buildings.txt file:

recruit_pool "Mongol Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { mongols, timurids, }
recruit_pool "ME Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { moors, egypt, turks, }
recruit_pool "Greek Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { byzantium, }
recruit_pool "EE Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { russia, }
recruit_pool "SE Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { spain, portugal, milan, venice, sicily, }
recruit_pool "NE Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { england, scotland, france, hre, denmark, poland, hungary, }

You'll need to do this for each building which you want to allow the creation of general's units.

My questions is, if we make the changes now, will it show up in the game? Or is export_descr_building.txt one of the files that's only read at the beginning of the campaign?

Edit: Also if we make these changes, would the other Northern European factions begin recruiting Generals as well?

[Privateerkev]

My opinion is that we just sit on this and see how the game reacts to all the avatars that are dying. 2 have just died and 3 more won't be around much longer. This will force the game's "heir and a spare" function to kick in and start the breeding mechanics.

just my :2cents:

:beam:

[AussieGiant]

Being a purist and all, I'm still inclind to wait as PK suggests.

But, I'm getting mighty tempted right about now!!!

[FactionHeir]

Finally read through everything.

Firstly: OK That is correct. Its a very easy thing to do and I alread got a file ready for that (since I have them recruitable in my SP games). To answer your question, yes they are retroactive. It would probably be a good idea to restrict it to HRE and change the cost of the recruitment in the EDU as well lest you want to use add_money instead. Also, the numbers for recruitment need to be looked at. I believe all thats needed is the chancellor using a modded file for a short while for the hiring and then discarding it. Saves lots of downloads etc. If you want, I can send you such files.

As for marriages and children, some modding may allow more marriages to happen or children to be born. Let me know if thats needed (campaign_db file). Ideally, only the chancellor needs this (and players who fight AI turn battles)

As for the Hümmel issue, I think he was banned for being threatening. Hans hasn't been banned as far as I know even though he still has not sworn allegiance to Siegfried.

[Ferret]

Getting back to recruiting non-family member generals, I found this on the FAQ at the official forums.



My questions is, if we make the changes now, will it show up in the game? Or is export_descr_building.txt one of the files that's only read at the beginning of the campaign?

Edit: Also if we make these changes, would the other Northern European factions begin recruiting Generals as well?

all you'd need to do is only add

"recruit_pool "NE Bodyguard" 1 0.2 1 0 requires factions { hre }"

but yes I think this would only affect a new campaign

[TinCow]

Recruitable generals can be recruited anytime. Plus, you have to remember that they will not show up on the family tree, so they're not ideal. Let's wait at least until the end of this Chancellorship to see how things play out.

[FactionHeir]

Yes, I'm thinking we really only should be considering it once we got more players than avatars again.

Bob: As a general rule, any file found directly in the data folder will affect a running game. Subfolders are more selective.

[Northnovas]

It's good to know there is a backup but I think I would take FH suggestion and wait to see if there is a real need; too many players not enough avatars. Let's see what continues to develop.

[Cecil XIX]

If we can mod the rate at which generals marry and procreate, that would be a much better solution that having recruitable generals. We can't even control what house the latter goes to, after all.

[TinCow]

Actually, recruitable generals can go into any house, because they're not part of the family tree.

[Privateerkev]

As for the Hümmel issue, I think he was banned for being threatening. Hans hasn't been banned as far as I know even though he still has not sworn allegiance to Siegfried.

I don't think anyone took the threatening very seriously IC. If you read the Diet thread when this was going on, it seemed more like the Kaiser did it because of the questioning of his authority. Hans was much more diplomatic and strategic in the questioning of the Kaiser's authority and hence, was not and is not banned.

[Stig]

I would prefer more marriages. Yes Franconia might not have a avatar problem, but only Dieter is married.
When I play this game all my generals get proposals when they're 17 years old.

As for Hummel, he and his minions are banned. If you want to go into the Diet again Igno you should have thought about this before you started all this.

[Privateerkev]

Well technically Jonas and Wikerus are married as well. But I too would like more marriages. It would be nice if Jan and Ansehelm can pop out some spawn and continue this feud for generations. :beam:

As for Hummel, the Prince has spoken. Hopefully Wolfgang will take him up on his offer it will be done with.

[Warmaster Horus]

Sorry to interrupt. The FAQ says this is to place to sign up, so here I am. I'd like to be in the House of Bavaria, if possible.

[econ21]

Hi, Warmaster Horus, welcome to the PBM!

We currently have no spare Bavarian avatars, but have just been discussing modding the game to make generals recruitable. So basically you have two choices:

EITHER: pick one of the spare avatars listed in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors report thread. We have two young Swabians - I think the young Franconian may be taken by FLYdude.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1

OR: have a recruitable Bavarian general. (The downside of this is that your avatar will not appear on the family tree unless he marries/is adopted into it.)

What's your preference? (You could always download a savegame to check on the location of the spares.)

[Warmaster Horus]

I'll take a recruited Bavarian general, if it's not too much of a problem.

[OverKnight]

I can make the changes and recruit a general for 1274. But I can't find export_descr_buildings.txt for M2. Am I missing something?

[gibsonsg91921]

wow looks like i missed a lot - only gone since tuesday. i forgot to post reserve duty, but i guess i didnt have battles anyway. unless i died and i havent checked mausoleum. lol

[econ21]

I can make the changes and recruit a general for 1274. But I can't find export_descr_buildings.txt for M2. Am I missing something?

Thanks, OK. Perhaps the best thing is just to ask Factionheir to send you his modded file(s)? I'll PM the request to him now.

[TinCow]

One thing to be aware of with recruited generals is that they will sometimes get Man of the Hour adoption offers after battles. There's no way to tell which House the man will go to if you accept. This happened with Mandorf and by sheer luck he ended up under Otto. I wouldn't count on it happening again though, so accepting a Man of the Hour with a recruited general runs the risk of screwing up the family tree.

[econ21]

...so accepting a Man of the Hour with a recruited general runs the risk of screwing up the family tree.

Good point - maybe players with recruitable generals should indicate whether they wish a potential "Man of the Hour" adoption to be accepted or not?

[OverKnight]

Well, I unpacked all those data files and found export_descr_buildings.txt. Even followed a tutorial on how to make a new .cfg file and .bat, as the .bat used for FH's fixes didn't work anymore.

Long story short, I can't get recruitable generals to work, either in the current save or a new campaign. This means I'm doing something wrong, so I'll wait for someone who knows what they're doing to come along.

I'll stick to what I know, actually playing the game.

[AussieGiant]

I'm concerned we are doing this.

What's wrong with what I did for months and just playing as an elector and waiting for a real avatar? You can be made a count and have the same voting influence as many others. The only thing you can't do is fight battles?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm concerned we are doing this.

What's wrong with what I did for months and just playing as an elector and waiting for a real avatar? You can be made a count and have the same voting influence as many others. The only thing you can't do is fight battles?

Agree 100%.

And welcome Warmaster Horus! I'm sure that TinCow will be glad that Bavaria gets another Elector... :hide:

[Privateerkev]

I agree with AG and GH. I'm a purist. I like playing the vanilla game. No need to hack or mod every time the game throws us for a loop. I say lets just roll with it. I worry about the slippery slope this may lead us down. I get concerned when people on here bring up the option of modding every time there is an issue with game mechanics. I will probably always vote against modding or hacking the game. The only way I would accept this is if one of two things happen (or both):

A.) Econ, in his position as gamemaster wants it.

B.) The majority of the players want it.

Otherwise I feel that we are trying too hard to create the kind of game we want instead of playing the game we have. CA did a good job giving us a setting that we can be creative in and have fun interacting with each other. We should concentrate on that and not worry every time something in the game seems weird. If it was killing our fun, then I'd say do it. If it isn't, lets just roll with it.

[Northnovas]

I'm concerned we are doing this.

What's wrong with what I did for months and just playing as an elector and waiting for a real avatar? You can be made a count and have the same voting influence as many others. The only thing you can't do is fight battles?

I was in the same situation as AG waiting for an Austrian avatar and was involved enough. As mentioned above you still can be involved and have the influence for voting. I would like to wait and if we get in a crises mode a House with no heirs then lets look at a way to modify the game.

That's my official statement for now. Hopefully I will have an avatar when I get back. We need a couple slow days like today so I won't be too far behind. Recording all post counts in the current threads so I will know where to pick up.
Updated the roster and on reserve duty.

[AussieGiant]

Good idea NN.

Have a great holiday!!

[FactionHeir]

Got the PM and sent back some questions to you regarding which features you want, econ.
Once I get the response its a 1 minute job really. (I'm guessing econ is sleeping now for the next 7+ hours though)

Questions sent in spoilers.

- Do you want normal or late period BGs? (late are the same as early except they got 1 more armor but they can't get the armor upgrade as earlies do. all in all, same stats but different looks)

- Where do you want them to be hirable? I.e. which building requirement (or even region requirement) if any.

- Zero cost or want to actually pay for it?

[Cecil XIX]

I think increasing the marriage and childbirth rate makes much more sense then making Generals recruitable. I'm sympathetic to the purist viewpoint, and I agree that people should be willing to accept that they won't always have an avatar. I simply don't want an entire house to die off because people aren't getting married. That's ridiculous. But I don't want to be able to summon avatar on command either, there should be a bit of randomness. Recruited generals miss out from not being on the family tree, since they can't have relatives.

[FactionHeir]

I think that is easy to say when you have an avatar really.
Back when most people were waiting for one, I would believe that if that option had been known, it would likely have been readily accepted.

Getting and keeping new PBM players should be more of a priority rather than making them wait long enough to put them off. And there have been at least 2 people who joined and left because of that. Probably more.

Having said that, I don't mind providing both files (recruitable generals and increased rates)

[Cecil XIX]

Hmm. You mean it could be the chancellors choice? Or that players can choose between getting an avatar quickly or getting one with relatives and a possible lineage? Either makes sense.

[AussieGiant]

I played without one for nearly 4 months if I remember correctly.

I'm not in favour of artificially creating avatars.

I contributed to the game, created a character and was able to vote on legislation.

I'm only interested in creating an OOC option if one of the houses would die off. Even then it would be limited use, one time only action to correct imminent ending of a house.

I know you are a modding machine FH, but no one can tell me it is not possible as I believe I was the longest serving person to play without an avatar in this game.

It is possible and it is certainly better than modding the game in my opinion.

[Stuperman]

hey, hey I'm back early, are we still in 1272?

edit: I've got 1272-3 and will fight the battle, if OK's moved on than so be it.

[OverKnight]

Go ahead and fight it, I can back track. Just get it done soon.

[Stuperman]

battle's done, I got a new name, woot woot,

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1272-4.zip

http://img38.picoodle.com/img/img38/9/8/12/t_setupm_b0fac2e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/12/f_setupm_b0fac2e.jpg&srv=img38)

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/9/8/12/t_bbm_fdb336e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/12/f_bbm_fdb336e.jpg&srv=img36)

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/9/8/12/t_newnamem_55d3348.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/8/12/f_newnamem_55d3348.jpg&srv=img36)

[OverKnight]

Excellent. I have the save.

[Stig]

I say no to recruiting generals. Become an elector, and if you really want to play become a spy or merchant or something, or the top cardinal.
I'd say increase marriages and birthrates, and leave it at that.

[OverKnight]

1272 has been updated.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1634700&postcount=243

We will proceed to 1274 shortly.

[Warmaster Horus]

Marriages and Birthrates can be increased? If so, then forget what I said earlier. I'll wait until a Bavarian comes up.

[FactionHeir]

They can indirectly, but only to a very small extent. No promises on a huge marriage + child boom there.
Also, if you were to wait for a coming of age event in Bavaria, you'd probably have to wait some 32 turns still. Thats around 3 more chancellorships.

[Warmaster Horus]

No problem.

[OverKnight]

If people don't want to recruit generals, then it's time to move some avatars to the less represented houses. Warmaster Horus, welcome by the way, is the only person waiting for an avatar. I say we give him an unclaimed Franconian or Swabian and transfer that avatar to Bavaria.

If we have avatars available, then let's use them.

[Privateerkev]

If we recruit generals, what effect would that have on marriages and births?

If we marry these recruited generals into houses, or get MOTH, what effect would that have on marriages and births?

Whats funny is, with the succession dispute, there was all of this talk about who was "pure" and who wasn't. If I am reading this correctly, if we do this, eventually no one will be "pure". We will have lots and lots of recruited generals but few if any will be in the tree. And if they are, they won't be of Heinrich's blood which seems to mean something to a few of the characters in this game. The game seems to have a set number of slots available according to how many territories you have. Once you reach that, the game stops letting people marry and stops poppin out kids. We will start filling up "slots" with generic redshirt generals. Because of that, any chance of continuing the "royal" line of Heinrich will eventually die. Which is unfortunate because it adds some spice and intrigue to the game. We'll end up with a nation full of middle management and no CEO's which isn't exactly "feudal".

I agree with AG. If we were at some sort of crisis point, then I'd say go for it in a very limited way that solves the immediate problem. But were not yet. We just lost two old avatars and three more are on their way to meet the reaper. I truly believe the loss of five avatars will kick the game into "breed" mode. That and I don't know if all of the players who lost avatars are coming back.

Also, if people have bailed on this game because they could not get an avatar right away, I don't feel really bad. I admire AG for sticking it out for 4+ months. I lucked out and found this game when there was a massive spare avatar boom. Others here are "old skewl" and got avatars in the beginning because they were in the old WOTS or the KOTR playtest. Most of the rest had to wait. If there are spares, you get one. If there aren't you wait in line like everyone else had to. I plan on playing the next one of these that Econ and company put on. And if I don't get an avatar out of the starting gate, I'll wait in line. The same goes if Jan dies. If there is a spare, I'll take him. If not, I'll learn some humility real fast and become a generic elector in the Diet who will very nicely and very politely point out things that others don't want pointed out. :beam:

*edited to include a response to OK*

If you want to move a spare, the best would probably be the new von Dassel one in Swabia. Its a dead end line that isn't attached to other characters as family. Hummel and Hamburg both are part of established family lines with relatives.

[Stig]

I say we give him an unclaimed Franconian or Swabian and transfer that avatar to Bavaria
That's a big no no.
If we might solve things for now, but remember that there's only 1 married Franconian at this point. Sure others might marry, but nothing is sure for now.

[Privateerkev]

That's a big no no.
If we might solve things for now, but remember that there's only 1 married Franconian at this point. Sure others might marry, but nothing is sure for now.

Well, technically there are three married Franconians right now.

But I think the one that makes the most sense from a RP perspective to move is von Dassel. He's the kid of that old avatar no one ever picked. It would be easier to make up a story than it would with Helmut Hamburg or Jens Hummel who have families. Besides that there is the new spare that will go to Austria and the old guy who will die soon and clear room for a better avatar. I want to take this chance to say that adopting the old fart was a good idea on OK's part because it helps move the game's breeding mechanic along. Getting Hedewis married moves the mechanic down the line to the right. Which is why Jonas's daughter just got married.

[Stig]

Well, technically there are three married Franconians right now
No, Von Mahrens children are not Franconian, the old guy is almost dead, so only Dieter is married.

[OverKnight]

Battle Queue 1274

Lots and lots of battles this year, unfortunately Matthias will not be known as the "Peacemaker".

First come first serve, pay attention to the instructions given because some players have multiple battles. Post when you take and post a link when you upload.

Check for latest save.

Sigismund von Mahren - Completed (Stats pending)

There are multiple Hungarian armies scattered in front of the AHA. You may attack them if you wish, but the year must end with you having enough men to seize Bran. Our spy there will be able to open the gates, and I want the Castle taken this year. The rest of the Magyar scum can be crushed once you have used their own arms and supplies to reinforce.

Wolfgang Hummel

Your homecoming has taken a detour. I have sent you to Ajaccio to relieve the siege. Four units of dismounted Chivalric Knights form the Spanish Army. They could beat you and the garrison toe to toe, but if you use your advantage in cavalry and bowmen, victory will be yours. If you win, it will ease your reentry into the Diet, if you lose, and Ajaccio is taken, well I'd keep on sailing west.

Lothar Steffen

I want the Spanish cleared from Sardinia, and I want the Spanish Prince dead. I suggest a night attack on the Prince, who has foolishly not united with his other forces. Cut off the head and the body will die. I will leave the specifics up to you.

Fritz von Kastilien

You have assumed command of the Army of the Interior north of Magdeburg. There are rebels to your west. Disperse them.

Peter von Kastilien - Completed

You have reassumed command of the Franconian Household Army. You have broken the siege of Thorn and pursued the Polish Nobles west. Finish them. After, if you wish, you can engage the Poles who are south of Thorn across the bridge. Do not lose control of that bridge however.

[Privateerkev]

No, Von Mahrens children are not Franconian, the old guy is almost dead, so only Dieter is married.

Um, if you want to split hairs, married means married, not how many kids can come from it. Jonas is married. Wikerus is married. Dieter is married. That is three.

If your argument is that there is only one avatar that can give Franconia kids, then you might be right. Wikerus might still manage to relearn how to make sweet love again if we can find him some viagra. :laugh4:

[econ21]

I've asked Factionheir to provide Overknight with the files to allow recruitable generals. If it were the start of the PBM, I would be reluctant because it could unbalance things vs the AI and because the break with the family tree might disrupt the development of the Houses. But right now, I think an extra HRE general or two would not have a significant impact on the AI and the Houses have such strong identities that we don't need to stick too rigidly to the family tree (which we've already deviated from with moving the von Mahrens). In a way, allowing recruitable generals is just like going back to turn 1, where both Max and Dietrich von Saxony were not on the family tree. It also opens up some interesting role-playing possibilities - a self-man, of undistinguished birth.

I am not keen on modding birth rates or shifting more existing avatars to different Houses - neither solution seems as clean to me as recruitable generals.

Warmaster_Horus: I think you would be best off if you take a recruitable Bavarian general (if you don't want a Swabian or Austrian spare avatar). Please post here if you are willing to accept one and Overknight will make one once he gets the relevant files from Factionheir. Let's make the default position that the Chancellor will accept a Man of the Hour promotion for recruitable avatars - putting them on the family tree - unless the controlling player states in advance here that they don't want them. Such promotion could well move the player to another House, so it's a decision players should think about in advance and issue a veto if they want.

As will be apparent from the chronology of this discussion, we are not implementing recruitable generals just for Warmaster_Horus. There are a number of older players who have lost or will lose avatars who may want a recruitable general to enable them to stay in their preferred House. They should post here if they do and I'll set them up. They can always wait for a non-recruitable avatar, but at this stage in the game, I don't think we should require that.

[OverKnight]

@econ21

Once I get the files I'll see if I can implement. My own attempts at modding we're a failure. I reinstalled the game and everything is running smoothly again.

I believe FH had some questions about the parameters, how many florins to recruit the generals, what buildings to link them to. You might want to touch base with him.

This was the post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1636142&postcount=345

[econ21]

Thanks, OK. I am in touch with Factionheir. He is also modding upwards the birth and marriage rates, so Warmaster_Horus may take that into consideration when making his decision.

[FactionHeir]

KOTRfix v1.27 is up with several new fixes.
The two new files include minor fixes to game mechanics including the marriage/birth rate adjustments and recruitable generals for HRE at normal price at huge cities.
Chancellor is advised to only recruit if requested and approved by the game master.

Also, as a word of caution on the new fix version, I raised the threshold for GoodCommander up to close to the vanilla threshold (it was about half of it before). This means many avatars will find themselves no longer Great commanders or Legendary commanders. They retain the bonus to command skill until they reach the next level though, so in general, it only means they stay at their old level longer and you won't actually notice any decrease in command.

Link: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix127.zip
Or just get it from my sig as usual.

[edit]
As for the MOTH, I believe it is possible to save at the time of getting it (at least I think it was possible in RTW) so we can possibly check which avatar it goes to. If that isn't possible, we can autoresolve the battle with auto_win first to get the MOTH and check where it goes and then let the player fight the battle manually, knowing which decision to make at the end.

[OverKnight]

I'll check out the new fix after I get some sleep. Have fun storming the castle!

[TinCow]

As for the MOTH, I believe it is possible to save at the time of getting it (at least I think it was possible in RTW) so we can possibly check which avatar it goes to. If that isn't possible, we can autoresolve the battle with auto_win first to get the MOTH and check where it goes and then let the player fight the battle manually, knowing which decision to make at the end.

I tried that without success for Mandorf, though perhaps I did it wrong somehow:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1462877&postcount=32

[edit]Err... I take that back. It seems I then figured out how to save, but I didn't say how to do it:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1467927&postcount=151

My guess is that the 'MoH' popup window has to be minimized first, by clicking on the icon in the bottom left. Once it is minimized, you can hit Esc and save. If you hit Esc with any window still up, it closes the window.

[Warmaster Horus]

Well, if we can do that, it solves our problems, right?

In that case, I will take a recruitable general, and once MOH comes up, make sure he's adopted by a Bavarian general.


And, yes, that decision is final, unless there are too many against it.

[Privateerkev]

Econ made his ruling on the issue so I'm cool with it. He has proven adept at walking the fine line between keeping the game as pure as possible while making sure it is playable and fun, so I have come to trust his judgment on these issues.


I apologize if our debating about the issue at large, in any way made you feel unwelcome. Like econ said earlier, we were having this debate before you posted. You just happened to drop yourself in the middle of it. :laugh4:


By the way, Hi! and welcome to the game! :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the new Austrian avatar sounds more English than German?

[gibsonsg91921]

well, were his name english, it would be edmund baker. becker is german for baker

[Stig]

Well to be completely correct Bäcker is german for Baker, but it's more or less pronounced Becker ~D

I can't really say the entire Kastillien family goes free in something like this. Kastillien is German for Castile

[gibsonsg91921]

yeah, a peter von kastilien was the husband of queen urraca of castile lol

[Cecil XIX]

That reminds me, I was looking up where all these 'vons' were from. We all know where Hamburg is, and Stig just explained that the von Kastilien family is 'of Castille'. I know Mahren is a region in the Czech Republic east of Bohemia. Salza is a tributary, as far as I know. And Kassel is a city in Germany.

Anyways, I'm taking the save.

[Tamur]

I'll need to fight this tomorrow (reserve duty weekends for, err, about eight years lol) but assuming that's ok, Fritz is ready!

[gibsonsg91921]

uhh... peter has no movement points OK. cant fight any battles

[econ21]

In that case, I will take a recruitable general, and once MOH comes up, make sure he's adopted by a Bavarian general.

Sounds good. Where do you want him spawned? We could recruit him anywhere with huge walls. Without looking at the save, I'd say Rome might be a useful place to have a general (with Sicily just starting a war with us).

You probably should try to fight lots of battles to get a MoH promotion. Maybe the Chancellor could try the Lothar Steffen road to glory path and give you command of a small force before you are knighted?

[Cecil XIX]

Battle fought and won. Here's the save.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1274-1.zip

[Warmaster Horus]

Rome would be fine, thanks!

[gibsonsg91921]

hmm - i couldnt recruit any generals when i tried to.

what is everyone's target when they use the switch for the mod?

[OverKnight]

I can't seem to recruit the bodyguards. They show up in the description of the Huge Walls, but they are not available in the recruitment screen.

Here's a picture:

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/rome.jpg

Is anyone else able to recruit or run into the same problem?

Edit: That's bad news about Sigismund Cecil XIX. Very shocking.

[gibsonsg91921]

i cant recruit, i didnt check the stone walls descr thingy

perhaps if we get 'er workin, cecil can invent a new general in budapest.

[Privateerkev]

Well, there is an Austrian avatar ready to go. I can understand creating generals so people can play, but do we have to create them just so we get favorable strategic situations?

[gibsonsg91921]

i dont like creating generals out of nowhere to just help out battles, but i'd hate for cecil to have to miss out.

[TinCow]

Surely Cecil can just take the new Austrian avatar. He's decent and not old at all.

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/edmund.jpg

It's also rather amazing how much more lethal KOTR is than WOTS. Whenever anyone questions whether M2TW is really any harder than RTW, they need to compare the Senate and Imperial Mausoleums.

[StoneCold]

WOW... Jonas sees all his sons to the grave... Kage should write a good story on that... :D

[gibsonsg91921]

i thought there was a story way back that said the 4 von mahrens were all leopold's? or at least sigismund.

[StoneCold]

I think only Sigismund was Leopold's.

[Privateerkev]

As far as I know, we're going by this:


*Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.


So, Becker is Austrian. The way I read the stories, is that Leopold was "visiting" von Mahren's wife the whole time Jonas was away. So, all the kids are Leopolds. Just my interpretation.

And I would really like to avoid recruiting generals just to avoid strategic setbacks.

*edit*

Also, what do people think of a house rule where generals can only be recruited in Rome or the capital of the house they want to join? As far as I can tell, this is to be used to balance out the houses, not benefit us strategically. We're already pawning the AI in so many other ways.

*edit 2*

(Sorry SC, I was editing this before I saw your new post)

[StoneCold]

How about each house should only spawn generals from their house capital, maybe need to designate?

[gibsonsg91921]

whoops! i can fight my battle lol i didnt see the guy RIGHT NEXT TO ME. i got the save

[GeneralHankerchief]

Anyone in the mood for some Queen?

[OverKnight]

Huh? :inquisitive:

[gibsonsg91921]

done! i got the prebattle, postbattle, and prisoner screenies. i cant get to them now, 123pichosting isnt working. but i can give u the stats via TYPING!

10* Peter the Merciless v. 2* Niebor of Kalisz, Peter night attacks.

Deployed: 1506 v. 271
Lost: 278 v. 241
Remaining: 1228 v. 30
Killed: 207(27) v. 324(0)

CLEAR VICTORY

Prisoners Executed:

Niebor of Kalisz, Family Member, 20 Polish Nobles, and 6 General's Bodyguards, for a total value of 1762 Florins.

Péter the Merciless moves the FHA to Thorn Bridge, poised to attack (next turn).

uff forgot how to post the link again! the save is

kotr1274-2.zip

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ba ba BUM BUM BUM... Another one bites the Dust...

Sorry, I'm in that kind of mood.

-edit- Nice job, gibson. :yes:

[gibsonsg91921]

SO YOU THINK YOU CAN STONE ME AND SPIT IN ME EYE!!!!

Actually, GH, i think salier wouldnt mind getting stoned :P

thanks

btw im 6 dread now, cuz i got upgraded to merciless mauler.

[OverKnight]

This is the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1274-2.zip

Players with battles still pending:

TinCow, Ignoramus (empty your PM box), Tamur

I'm tempted to drop a tac nuke on Poland, they just keep coming.

[AussieGiant]

Cecil,

Firstly well done for taking the hit and rolling with the punches.

Arnold's pissed, he's not a well adjusted man, so that's his current state of mind. The grieving will come later.

You should take the new Austrian avatar.

FYI to all.

All the von Mahren son's were adopted except the Father. The only son that was Arnold's half brother was Sigismund.

[Privateerkev]

Anyone in the mood for some Queen?

I want to ride my bicycle.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry, OverKnight, I've cleared space in my inbox and will get on to that save very soon.

[gibsonsg91921]

haha iggy u always seem to have a full PM box. ur so popular

[Privateerkev]

haha iggy u always seem to have a full PM box. ur so popular

I've read through all of the OOC threads for this game and one constant is other players asking Ig to empty his PM box...

:laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

If only that popularity spilled over to Wolfgang...

[gibsonsg91921]

haha i think wolfgang is kind of a rabble rouser before he gets his merit. he rebelled too early - if he became popular people would trust him more

[Privateerkev]

I find it funny that people confuse an unwillingness to properly maintain a PM box for popularity. :laugh4:

As for Wolfgang, having him start a one man revolution right out of the starting gate was probably not the wisest of career moves. In the real world, failed revolutionaries tend to end up very dead so Wolfgang should count his blessings and settle for being unpopular.

[FactionHeir]

Eh, BG recruitment not working but showing up?
One sec, checking.

[edit]
Hmmm seems it is as you say, but doing some tests, it works for any city that builds the walls after implementation, just not for the ones that currently have it :inquisitive:
So Rome is out of the question, but the next city that finishes Huge Stone Walls will be able to recruit.
Odd.
If you want I'll put it on another building that hasn't been built in Rome yet or so as well.

Oh, and that also means that anyone playing the game without the files (or with them not properly installed and working) when a huge stone wall is finished will prevent others from ever recruiting BGs there later.

[Ignoramus]

I don't really want to mod MTW2 again, just to make bodyguards recruitable. That is how come there weren't that many players for WotS - there was too much modifying involved.

[gibsonsg91921]

for some reason it wasnt even showing generals bodyguard for me... that bodes ill

i guess the fix was never working. i dont know why tho???

[FactionHeir]

It won't be necessary to remod it unless that is desired:
Florence is about to finish the huge stone walls in a few turns, so we can recruit there easily.

gibson: Alternative to using the shortcut, you can edit your medieval2.preference.cfg file and add following to the top:

[io]
file_first = true

Then save and mark read-only.
That should also work - or at least has for those who couldn't get the shortcut to work.
This is more of a last resort method as this will apply files in the data folder to every game, not selective as when you use shortcut vs direct executable. Of course you can switch out the cfg file before playing each time, but as you can imagine, that is more tedious.

[Cecil XIX]

Cecil,

Firstly well done for taking the hit and rolling with the punches.

You should have seen ne in real life when it happened., there would have been a lot of screaming and swearing if my family hadn't been in the house. I was playing Sigismund with my own self-image in mind, so I was pretty devestated. And here I was looking forward to Duke Arnold the Merciless with his half-brother Count Sigismund the Merciful.:wall: What's weird is there wasn't any close of Sigismund when it happened. I saw the icon slowlying falling down on the left side of the screen, went to check, and saw him on the ground. Incidentally, I didn't get any pictures during or after Sigismund's death.

Anyways, I would like to take Edmund Becker. I think I'll make him a govenor instead of a general, as I imagine his wife won't be too keen on seeing him fight for a while.

[OverKnight]

Becker is currently in Hamburg, having spawned there because Jonas von Mahren is in the city. He's going to spend his first few turns on the road to make it to Austria.

[FactionHeir]

Add some spice, make him governor of Bran with a bickering wife :grin:

[Ignoramus]

Well, Sigismund was named after Sigismund der Stolze...

...so I guess he would suffer Sigismund's fate.

But my commiserations, it really stinks to lose an avatar that early when you were roleplaying him so nicely.

Anyway, as Wolfgang's political career hangs on a battle with the Spanish, I better get myself ready to fight that battle.

[AussieGiant]

As i don't have the game...


...is this Becker guy married to one of the von Mahren daughters?

[OverKnight]

Rome is one turn away from finishing Dockyards, we could link bodyguards to that.

When the Bodyguards are recruited, does it actually produce a character with traits and a retinue? I used create_unit to make a bodyguard, and all I got was a unit of 30 cav with no general, similar to what you would have in a multi-player battle.

As an alternative, I'd suggest giving Warmaster Horus this avatar.

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/dassel.jpg

He's a Swabian, but from a minor branch of the family. His dad is an unclaimed avatar and none of the claimed Swabian avatars are old. I think he could be spared without overly effecting the family tree. He's also currently in Northern Italy dodging bribery by taking shelter in a city.

Edit: Yes AG, Edmund is married to Contzel von Mahren, Jonas's daughter. Don't you read my reports? I put so much effort into them. :laugh4:

[Privateerkev]

...is this Becker guy married to one of the von Mahren daughters?

yes

[gibsonsg91921]

i suppose that way works better factionheir, i couldnt find a target that worked.

[AussieGiant]

Edit: Yes AG, Edmund is married to Contzel von Mahren, Jonas's daughter. Don't you read my reports? I put so much effort into them. :laugh4:


Maaate, I read all of your reports. I just wanted to double check ;)

[FactionHeir]

OK As I said, Florence is about to finish its walls, so we can recruit BGs there.
BGs hired via recruitment automatically generate an avatar as well. This avatar's stats are based on lesser_adoption (the kind you get from your usual MOTH)

[AussieGiant]

Cecil.....













Bloody Hell mate. :inquisitive:

You went in with just yourself and a unit of Spearmen...

....I can't help but laugh and cry at the same time.

[Cecil XIX]

And I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for those danged archers.

[Ignoramus]

Battle's fougth and won.

Those Spanish DCK's are nasty - they annhilated the Halberd Militia and Spear Milita, if I didn't have those knights I would have lost.

[AussieGiant]

Cecil,

Can you present Becker to the Austrian thread for some adminstration? :balloon2:

[econ21]

I've updated the playlist, so Cecil is Edmund Becker.

Let's go with Factionheir's plan to recruit generals from Florence. Please can people install the latest mod files he has uploaded?

Sadly, FLYdude has withdrawn from the PBM due to time pressures and so won't be needing a new avatar.

[Ignoramus]

Another veteran bites the dust. That's a real shame. How many veterans from WotS do we have left now?

[TinCow]

Players with battles still pending:

TinCow, Ignoramus (empty your PM box), Tamur

Will play this evening (~ 7pm EST).

[econ21]

How many veterans from WotS do we have left now?

Looking at the playlist, very few. But the positive side is that this game has brought so many new players to the Throne Room.

[Privateerkev]

Let's go with Factionheir's plan to recruit generals from Florence. Please can people install the latest mod files he has uploaded?

Sadly, FLYdude has withdrawn from the PBM due to time pressures and so won't be needing a new avatar.

Is it still the case that the fix is optional unless we are chancellor? I've been stalling on installing anything to my nice pure vanilla game for as long as I can. I like that I seem to be one of the few people that can install CA's patches without having to reinstall the whole game.

Yeah, its too bad about FD but I know how real life can take precedence. Him and I talked about him leaving a week or two ago but I wanted him to be the one to say it in case he changed his mind. Hopefully real life will ease up one day and he can come back.

[OverKnight]

I took the save. Fought a battle with Arnold and did some movement and builds.

Here's the latest save for Tamur and TinCow.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1274-4.zip

[OverKnight]

The report for 1274 has an interim update.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1636302&postcount=244

[AussieGiant]

Love your work OK!!

[FactionHeir]

Kev: If you fight any AI turn battles or get to end turn, its advisable that you have them in or else it might mess up the game for other players.
This is true not only for the new files but also for the usual trait and anc files.

[Privateerkev]

So, if I'm not chancellor, not playing defensive battles, and not ending the turn, then I am not messing up the game for anyone else by not installing the fix?

Awesome! :2thumbsup:

[gibsonsg91921]

well, the mod is like 4 files that you dont have unless u unpack, so it shouldnt be much of an issue to use them. if u want to patch it, just delete the files and then go

[Privateerkev]

*shrug*

Its still the principle of it. If I can get away with not installing it, and it won't hurt the game for anyone else, then I am not going to. If I run for chancellor, get a defensive battle, or for some reason end the turn as a non-chancellor, then I will do it because thats what I agreed to by joining the game. Otherwise I see no need to do it before I have to. I am personally quite satisfied with CA's latest patch and see zero need to change my SP game.

[Stig]

I think FLYdude would have taken Helmut anyway, tho I have to say Helmut is quite old to be a new character.

But now I know that FLYdude won't be taking Helmut, can I have permission to godmod him, so I can use him in my story as I want (I've been waiting for this).

[Privateerkev]

godmod?

As far as I know, he is a spare avatar. He's only in his mid 30's and with the lack of spares, I assume he'll be given to a new player that wants to be in House Franconia. Plus, maybe DG will want him when he gets back.

[Stig]

godmod?
Yeah, me making up a story about him, I kinda need this for all the stories I want to write about the Teutonic Crusade, unless he's claimed so I can write the stories with someone else. DG mostlikely.
And by now he's in his late 30s, should be 37 or 38 by now.

[Privateerkev]

The thing I worry about is this. I am wary of writing stories about NPC's (Non Player Characters) that are still viable avatars. Because, if someone eventually claims him, then they are kind of pigeon-holed into the personality you gave them.

Its the very reason why I did not include Dieter Bresch in my stories about Jan's feud with Duke Arnold even though it would have made IC sense to do so. I was worried about setting up a new player with a feud with an angry Duke. I did not think it would be fair to who ever took him. Now that BTG has claimed Dieter, he is more free to develop Dieter how he wants to develop him. He is not saddled with a feud that he had nothing to do with.

As long as Helmut is a viable avatar, he should be kept a relatively clean slate so that the next player can make Helmut into what they want him to be and not be saddled with what you made him into.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I disagree. If an avatar already has a background then it's more likely that he'll be picked up by a player. I remember this happened in WotS when a player switched avatars while the former one was still alive because the other one had better potential.

The trick is not to totally close off the different directions that can be taken RP-wise.

[Stig]

As long as Helmut is a viable avatar, he should be kept a relatively clean slate so that the next player can make Helmut into what they want him to be and not be saddled with what you made him into.
I completely agree, hence why I ask permission first.
I want to write some stories about the Crusade, but it will be hard not to mention Helmut, and I think I can't just let him jump in.

[Privateerkev]

I disagree. If an avatar already has a background then it's more likely that he'll be picked up by a player. I remember this happened in WotS when a player switched avatars while the former one was still alive because the other one had better potential.

The trick is not to totally close off the different directions that can be taken RP-wise.


I guess its a fine line. I like the idea of building up the avatar's skills and moving him around to hot-spots on the map. But, I wouldn't want to write a story where an NPC had a major role in some event or character interaction. Maybe some players like avatars that have a ready made story to jump into but others, want a clean slate to mold how they wish.

Stig: I didn't say don't mention him. But, if it were me, I wouldn't write about him having much to say or any sort of real opinion. I treat NPC's like any old regiment in stories. In battle I would treat them different because I don't want the avatar to die. But in stories, they are just another soldier to me.

*edit*

GH: Also, with so few avatars, I don't think people are going to be too picky so I am leaning towards making sure people have more RP options and not less.

[Stig]

Stig: I didn't say don't mention him. But, if it were me, I wouldn't write about him having much to say or any sort of real opinion.
That's difficult, he's a noble, he's the oldest son of Fredericus, and he's older than Ansehelm himself. I like bringing others into stories. Hence Gert von Runstede, Ansehelms Veteran Warrior.

[Privateerkev]

Well, there is a difference between retinue and NPC's. Retinue will never be played by another player. NPC's might. Yes, he is a noble and the oldest of the Hamburg/Kastilian kids. But he is not politically active. Also, who speaks for NPC's? What if we both wrote Helmut into our stories. You play Helmut's Duke and I play Helmut's brother so we both have a claim on developing his personality. Who's interpretation wins? I rather that neither of us claim him and that who ever takes Helmut decides what Helmut thinks.

[Tamur]

But, I wouldn't want to write a story where an NPC had a major role in some event or character interaction. Maybe some players like avatars that have a ready made story to jump into but others, want a clean slate to mold how they wish.

On the other hand, this takes a great deal of potential richness out of the story-world part of the PBM. I personally had hoped to find a character who had been mentioned, and had been a part of a few events, so that I had something to hook into when developing the character.

What I look for when starting a character is how others react to him. If there is nothing to start out with, I have to try to provoke a reaction, which is not always successful (or even desirable).

Good thought points, I'll be interested to watch any other discussion on this.

[Privateerkev]

If we had spare avatars oozing out of our orifices, I would be more inclined to have avatars that are clean slates and avatars that are more developed with a story. But, if we have a shortage, then I lean more towards having the ones we do have, be clean slates.

Even if we do have so many that some are developed, the problem becomes, who develops them? At what point are we letting people essentially play 2 or more people? Is that fair to those of us who only have one avatar (or no avatar)? Also, if two or more people want to develop an NPC, who decides who's vision wins out? In every RP/LARP I have ever played, its the GMs/ST's that play NPC's, not other players.

[Kagemusha]

Guys.Remember that im soon dead and Dutch_Guy is already dead.We will both need avatars soon. For me this could be the first avatar i get right from beginning.I inherited both Dietrich and Jonas.:yes:

[Privateerkev]

Guys.Remember that im soon dead and Dutch_Guy is already dead.We will both need avatars soon. For me this could be the first avatar i get right from beginning.I inherited both Dietrich and Jonas.:yes:

This is exactly my point. We should wait and see who is going to take Helmut, then Stig can work with that person on a story. :yes:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Even if we do have so many that some that are developed, the problem becomes, who develops them? At what point are we letting people essentially play 2 or more people? Is that fair to those of us who only have one avatar? Also, if two or more people want to develop an NPC, who decides who's vision wins out? In every RP/LARP I have ever played, its the GMs/ST's that play NPC's, not other players.

Generally it's just first-come, first-served, and we all build on each other. Take Otterbach for example. TinCow introduced us to the character of Charles Otterbach, making her the much-maligned female priest who was forced to submit to Max's advances. Later on I used Otterbach on Heinrich's deathbed, making her one of the few people that was still close to Heinrich. I figured that she would be grateful for him allowing her into the Priesthood. Later on she interacted with Conrad when an explanation was needed for why he wasn't present in the Diet for ten years.

I think we're all civilized enough where if two people want to develop an NPC something can be worked out easily.

[Stig]

m8, by then the Crusade might be over, it's already half way there, and I still haven't been able to write a story because of this.

[Kagemusha]

m8, by then the Crusade might be over, it's already half way there, and I still haven't been able to write a story because of this.

Well i dont mind if you write background story for the character.So go ahead.I have used two times already characters with history.:yes:

[Privateerkev]

Generally it's just first-come, first-served, and we all build on each other. Take Otterbach for example. TinCow introduced us to the character of Charles Otterbach, making her the much-maligned female priest who was forced to submit to Max's advances. Later on I used Otterbach on Heinrich's deathbed, making her one of the few people that was still close to Heinrich. I figured that she would be grateful for him allowing her into the Priesthood. Later on she interacted with Conrad when an explanation was needed for why he wasn't present in the Diet for ten years.

I think we're all civilized enough where if two people want to develop an NPC something can be worked out easily.

My objection is mainly for what I will call "viable avatars". I think extra consideration should be given before putting these people in major roles in our stories. I know technically a Cardinal could be played but we seem to have gotten away from it so I am limiting my objection to generals that aren't too old.

I think it would be unfair to Stig, me, and who ever gets Helmut, if Stig and I start vying for who gets to be Helmut's voice.

*edit*

I'm cool with what Kag just said if he is definitely taking Helmut. If Helmut is going to DG or some new player, then it isn't fair for Kag to tell Stig to write a story about an avatar that isn't his yet.

[Stig]

Well knowing DG I doubt he will really care that much.
The problem is is that because of my playing style I have to mention Helmut loads, he made sure I won the battles I fought, leading his Mounted Sergeants into battle.

[Kagemusha]

Well knowing DG I doubt he will really care that much.
The problem is is that because of my playing style I have to mention Helmut loads, he made sure I won the battles I fought, leading his Mounted Sergeants into battle.

Well it would be up to DG,but knowing him,i dont think he would mind,unless you turn his possible character to something very different then the avatars traits and ancillaries show.

[Privateerkev]

Well knowing DG I doubt he will really care that much.
The problem is is that because of my playing style I have to mention Helmut loads, he made sure I won the battles I fought, leading his Mounted Sergeants into battle.

Well, there is the chance that Helmut will go to a third player. Especially since we have difficulty in recruiting generals. If econ confirms that Helmut is going to Kag, then my specific objection is settled because Kag has just said that he doesn't care if you write a story about Helmut.

[Stig]

Well it would be up to DG,but knowing him,i dont think he would mind,unless you turn his possible character to something very different then the avatars traits and ancillaries show.
Well I wouldn't really do that, but I need to give Helmut some history, I need to explain the fact that he leads the light cavalry in the battles. And most importantly I need to explain why he came along on this mission.

[Privateerkev]

Well I wouldn't really do that, but I need to give Helmut some history, I need to explain the fact that he leads the light cavalry in the battles. And most importantly I need to explain why he came along on this mission.

Why can't you just ask whoever is going to play Helmut why he came along on this mission?

[Stig]

Why can't you just ask whoever is going to play Helmut why he came along on this mission?
I don't know who will play him yet

[FactionHeir]

So, if I'm not chancellor, not playing defensive battles, and not ending the turn, then I am not messing up the game for anyone else by not installing the fix?

Awesome! :2thumbsup:

Only the 2 new files. You would still need the 4 other ones if you fight any battle so your char isn't messed up at Library updates etc.

[Privateerkev]

I don't know who will play him yet

Then how do you know why he went on the Teutonic Crusade?


You would still need the 4 other ones if you fight any battle so your char isn't messed up at Library updates etc.


Oops...

I didn't know that. -_-

[Stig]

Then how do you know why he went on the Teutonic Crusade?
Looky looky, OK send him with me, just incase Ansehelm dies

[Privateerkev]

Looky looky, OK send him with me, just incase Ansehelm dies

Yes, but that doesn't mean you know what he is thinking. Just like it would be wrong if I wrote stories right now about how Helmut and Jan are exchanging letters. I can make the same claim to Helmut that you are making but I think it would be unfair to the new player and to you to do so. We can be reasonably certain that someone is taking Helmut soon so why can't you wait? We got a player here who doesn't even have his first avatar yet. Maybe he will take him.

[Stig]

so why can't you wait?
FOR THE LAST TIME:
The Crusade is already half done, if I have to wait any longer with a story I don't need to write one anymore.

[Privateerkev]

FOR THE LAST TIME:
The Crusade is already half done, if I have to wait any longer with a story I don't need to write one anymore.

Ok, why don't you write it and leave Helmut out? I found a way to write my stories with Jan and Duke Arnold without involving Dieter. Edit it later once you know who is playing Helmut. I have found the self-control to not write stories about how Jan and Helmut are writing letters about their Duke so it is possible.

[Stuperman]

Yes, but that doesn't mean you know what he is thinking. Just like it would be wrong if I wrote stories right now about how Helmut and Jan are exchanging letters. I can make the same claim to Helmut that you are making but I think it would be unfair to the new player and to you to do so. We can be reasonably certain that someone is taking Helmut soon so why can't you wait? We got a player here who doesn't even have his first avatar yet. Maybe he will take him.

If some one writes a part for a 'playerless' avatar, who is then taken over by a different person, there is no rule that says you must continue with the given part. Infact with the stories thread at your disposal the only thing limiting you is your imagination, it could be as simple as he fell off his horse and had a 'vision', picked up a new trait the the new 'owner' runs with.

I don't think that curtailing the creativity of current players to accomidate possible future players will add to the game significantly.

[Privateerkev]

If some one writes a part for a 'playerless' avatar, who is then taken over by a different person, there is no rule that says you must continue with the given part. Infact with the stories thread at your disposal the only thing limiting you is your imagination, it could be as simple as he fell off his horse and had a 'vision', picked up a new trait the the new 'owner' runs with.

I don't think that curtailing the creativity of current players to accomidate possible future players will add to the game significantly.

Yeah but what are the limits? Can I write a story about how Helmut walks into the Diet and tells the Kaiser to go !@#$ himself? Or if I have Helmut walk up to the Bavarian table in the Diet and "drop a load" on it? Are you telling me that would not negativly impact the new player?



Plus, there are so many possibilities for creativity in this game, that I don't believe that limiting one part will stifle storytelling. We have an abundance of gifted storytellers and I am confident that they can find some way around that minor limitation.

[Stig]

Ok, why don't you write it and leave Helmut out?
Do you read my posts?

[Privateerkev]

Do you read my posts?

yup

*edit*

And I did write more than just that quote that gave advice on how to handle the issue.

[TinCow]

Yeah but what are the limits? Can I write a story about how Helmut walks into the Diet and tells the Kaiser to go !@#$ himself? Or if I have Helmut walk up to the Bavarian table in the Diet and "drop a load" on it? Are you telling me that would not negativly impact the new player?

I think you're going a little bit overboard here. You're talking about extreme examples to refute a general policy designed to make things flow well. How about we just let people do what they want with other characters and deal with cases of 'abuse' as they arise. I seriously doubt that anyone will do anything remotely as 'harmful' as what you are suggesting.

I've gotta say, as well, that I'm getting very annoyed with every single itty, bitty rule being questioned down to the last detail. If there isn't currently a problem, I don't see the point in discussing it. We're not running a country here, we're just playing a game. Relax and roll with the punches. We'll deal with problems as they arise.

[Privateerkev]

I've gotta say, as well, that I'm getting very annoyed with every single itty, bitty rule being questioned down to the last detail. If there isn't currently a problem, I don't see the point in discussing it. We're not running a country here, we're just playing a game. Relax and roll with the punches. We'll deal with problems as they arise.

I'm sorry that you feel annoyed but I don't see any problem with what I am doing. I like knowing what the rules mean. I like them being clear. You have lived and breathed this game and its predecessor. I am still learning. Things that may be crystal clear to you but they are not to me yet. You yourself have voiced your opinion in here many times. I am not sure why I should be treated different. Is it because my opinion sometimes differ from yours? I feel the OOC thread is here to voice our opinion about game mechanics as well as ask questions about the rules. I will continue to use it as such despite the fact that it is causing you annoyance. Once a rule has been made clear to me, I don't question it or complain about it. Econ has gone out of his way to solicit our opinions about this game and he truly tries to incorporate our ideas into his decision making. I feel I am doing my part by offering my opinion and will continue to do so depite your feelings on the matter. Feel free to PM me if you wish to have a more extensive personal conversation on the matter.

[GeneralHankerchief]

:drama3:

[Privateerkev]

*tries to make a stern annoyed face at GH*

*fails miserably*

:laugh4:

[econ21]

I agree with PrivateerKev about leaving spare avatars as blank slates. I think it would be ok to mention them in stories, characterising them according to their traits, as long as overall it showed them in a neutral or favorable light. But hoisting a big backstory and motivation on them does prejudice the RP potential for whoever will acquire them.

However, in this case, if Kagemusha is interested in taking over Helmut von Hamburg, then we can say Helmut is provisionally allocated to him and so Stig can include Helmut in his story. The two players may want to cooperate over the writing, or at least the backstory for Helmut.

On the mod files, every player who signs up for this PBM is implicitly agreeing that they have installed or will install the mod files. This is quite important to avoid possible glitches with character traits (we had a few in WotS because of mod installation issues).

If I understand it right, the mod need not affect your SP or MP games. IIRC, if you follow Factionheir's installation instructions, you should have two M2TW icons on your desktop: one starts up the vanilla game; the other icon starts up the modded one. I only use the KotR icon when I am loading up a save from this campaign. (Which in practice means I only use the KotR icon... memo to self: must play more M2TW...).

[Privateerkev]

On the mod files, every player who signs up for this PBM is implicitly agreeing that they have installed or will install the mod files. This is quite important to avoid possible glitches with character traits (we had a few in WotS because of mod installation issues).

Ok, I will install tonight. I'll pm FH if I have any difficulty as I do not claim to be the most computer savvy. :book:

[TinCow]

I'm sorry that you feel annoyed but I don't see any problem with what I am doing. I like knowing what the rules mean. I like them being clear. You have lived and breathed this game and its predecessor. I am still learning. Things that may be crystal clear to you but they are not to me yet. You yourself have voiced your opinion in here many times. I am not sure why I should be treated different. Is it because my opinion sometimes differ from yours? I feel the OOC thread is here to voice our opinion about game mechanics as well as ask questions about the rules. I will continue to use it as such despite the fact that it is causing you annoyance. Once a rule has been made clear to me, I don't question it or complain about it. Econ has gone out of his way to solicit our opinions about this game and he truly tries to incorporate our ideas into his decision making. I feel I am doing my part by offering my opinion and will continue to do so depite your feelings on the matter. Feel free to PM me if you wish to have a more extensive personal conversation on the matter.

I am not saying that you are the only person responsible for it. I have personally contributed to this recent trend on a few occasions. The origins of the problem are less important than the result, though. We are now in a situation where we go through an entire OOC thread (~500 posts) per Chancellorship, with the last one only lasting 4 game turns! This particular thread is already nearing it's lock limit and OverKnight isn't even done with his term.

It greatly reduces the immersion of the game for me when I have to read 20-30 OOC posts for every IC post. That in itself isn't a bad thing, but I really do feel like a lot of the discussions in here lately have been completely unnecessary. Perhaps others feel differently, but this is my perspective.

I do not think that asking for a bit of restraint when a problem is not actually before is a very heinous statement. I am not worried about what Stig will write in his story because I know Stig will not abuse the game or otherwise ruin it for other players. He's a good guy, just like everyone else in here. A certain amount of trust and faith in others helps things to flow smoothly.

Finally, this is also propelling us toward an increasingly detailed and complex rule system. This is a bad thing. The rules for KOTR are already very complex and it is to the point where they start becoming a barrier for people who might otherwise consider joining. Keep in mind that, when it comes down to it, pretty much ALL the rules are optional. The Chancellor can do anything he wants, no matter how blatantly illegal it is. Whether he gets away with it or not is an IC issue, not an OOC issue. The same applies to other players. Clarifying every single last aspect of the game in fine print risks draining the relative freedom that makes the game interesting.

[TinCow]

In other news, I am downloading the save now.

[Privateerkev]

TC: I appreciate you taking the time to say that. I think I understand your point of view a little better. I am a big part of why the OOC threads have grown so fast lately. Part of it is my intense interest in dissecting the rules. But part of it simply stems from the fact that I am blessed with a job that has internet access and minimal supervision.

As for the thing with Stig, I felt strongly about something, so I voiced my opinion. Others debated it in what I thought was a healthy and mature manner, so I tried to return the favor. I don't get anal-retentive out of disrespect. Its my personality. Once something is clear and/or econ makes a ruling, I drop the issue. I am satisfied if I am able to get my point of view out there in the most clear and well thought out way that I can. One thing that keeps me coming back is the fact that econ respects our opinion, takes it seriously, and then tries to incorporate it in a way that is the most fair to the most people.

As for what to do with the OOC thread, I like that we can have "light" conversation in here. If we should keep this just OOC business, then I would like for us to at least have an OOC and/or IC "bar" thread where we can just hang out and not worry about burying the more important information in jokes and small talk. Just a thought. I noticed in an older OOC thread that someone floated the idea of a "bar" thread where we can hangout IC and not worry about the formality of the Diet thread and I really like the idea. It might help with what you are concerned about.

[TinCow]

Battle fought. I thought I would do something clever and ignore the night-fight to split the Prince from his army, so that I could kill him on the field for a morale hit to the big force. I placed two units of spears in ambush near where he would enter the battle and placed the rest in ambush in the middle of the map. Unfortunately, the Prince managed to get away from my spearmen after only suffering 1/4 casualties and rode to meet up with his force, leaving my 2 spearmen units in the dust and far away from my main force. At the same time, the entire Spanish force moved on my hidden main army, just as planned. What I didn't plan for was the fact that their Jinettes found my abushers before they stumbled into them, thus enabling them to impale a signficant number and reveal the ambush for the rest of the army. It turned into a totally chaotic forest melee without any discernable lines whatsoever. I only won thanks to the mounted and dismounted Imperial Knights and their fabulous AP. For a good several minutes, I was expecting to write-up a defeat and perhaps even my own death. Considering that Lothar now has a cumulative -3 morale thanks to the worsening witch curse, I think it was only sheer luck that kept my army from routing.

Not one of my best tactical moments. I was lucky to escape with only 60% casualties.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1274-5.zip

[OverKnight]

All right, we have one battle left for 1274, Tamur vs. Rebels. As soon as that is done, I'll be able to end the turn pretty quickly.

[AussieGiant]

Two comments.

* Try to avoid paralysis by analysis as a general rule for lowering OOC posts. A common sense minimalistic approach to rules would be advisable. If someting comes up then lets look at the rules, have a short debate then reach concensus.

---------------

* I'll replay the record I scratched 2 months ago:

"The rule set and bureaucracy levels are reaching counter productive levels".

It should not be a prerequisite to have studied Politics and/or Law to play this game....and I'd say if you read the current introductory threads you would agree there is a somewhat monumental amount to read and digest.

...AND before anyone jumps in and we have another flurry of posts.....LETS try not to bite on this morsel of opportunity to do this all over again :yes:

[Privateerkev]

Two comments.

* Try to avoid paralysis by analysis as a general rule for lowering OOC posts. A common sense minimalistic approach to rules would be advisable. If someting comes up then lets look at the rules, have a short debate then reach concensus.

---------------

* I'll replay the record I scratched 2 months ago:

"The rule set and bureaucracy levels are reaching counter productive levels".

It should not be a prerequisite to have studied Politics and/or Law to play this game....and I'd say if you read the current introductory threads you would agree there is a somewhat monumental amount to read and digest.

...AND before anyone jumps in and we have another flurry of posts.....LETS try not to bite on this morsel of opportunity to do this all over again :yes:

*tries to hold in all of the encyclopedic comments that he has amassed from combing the rules for umpteen hours in order to not respond to AG's comments and not add to the hundreds of OOC rules posts that he is already responsible for.*

BOOM!!!

:tnt:




:skull:

[AussieGiant]

Lol.

[gibsonsg91921]

hey FH, just wanna say thanks for that cfg file thing. it all works flawlessly now!

[Ignoramus]

AussieGiant: Clear some PM space, I have a PM I want to send to you.

[Tamur]

Taking the save, will post it back up with results in about an hour.

[Tamur]

Rebels dispersed, Chancellor. The poor fellows lost about sixty of their number by marching straight into my crossbows.

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1274-6.zip

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/kotr/prebattle-1274.jpg

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/kotr/results-1274.jpg

One of these days I won't be painting any part of the house and will get the three latest battles written up, oj.

[OverKnight]

Excellent. I will take the save when I return from work and will end the turn shortly after. There is a possibility that Peter von Kastilien will be attacked by the Poles, judging by the armies gathered, so we might have a defensive battle over the AI moves.

[AussieGiant]

Sorry Igno.

I'm clear now.

[Privateerkev]

Ig asked someone else to clear their PM box?

I feel like I just entered the twilight zone...

[AussieGiant]

Pretty crazy hey PK!!:beam:

[Ignoramus]

If we are going to make bodyguards recruitable, then we should be strict on where they can be trained. I suggest that one city is designated, perhaps Florence.

This is because only an avatar-led army can fight the battle manually. If we allow generals to be recruited all over the place, this would ruin the challenge of having enough generals in the right places at the right time.

[AussieGiant]

Believe me Igno there are a world of issues to this move.

Firstly and most importantly we are going to have to create even more rules to govern this OOC decision.

I am not even going to think too far on the subject as it is just going to hurt.:wall:

[OverKnight]

Lets not make this a tempest in a tea cup. This will only add one general, for now at least, to Bavaria. If it's abused, we can always refine it with an OOC edict or amendment.

The only area where we could use a general but lack one is Bran.

[AussieGiant]

Don't worry there's no tea cup here. :clown:

One general is fine.

Of all the people in the game I'd be the one to have the greatest need. With three avatars in total, it's not ideal.

The eastern front is never a healthy place but this war with Hunagary seems to be especially leathal :yes:

[OverKnight]

Turns out we got another battle for 1274. gibson has a defensive battle against the poles. Check out my updated report for details:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1636302&postcount=244

[TinCow]

Usually bridge battles are easy, but with that much artillery on the Polish side it could be difficult if the Poles decide to sit back and bombard before crossing.

GL gibson.