View Full Version : Buying tap water in a bottle
KafirChobee
08-05-2007, 20:31
As most of you have probably heard by now, Pepsi admitted that their "special" bottled water is nothing more than tap water from Massachussetts. Coke, Nestles and the other bottled water providers (manufacturers) will soon confess the same.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/
Now, some cities really do have disgusting water. Orlando, for instance, water tastes like it comes directly from a swamp - foul tasting stuff. Live there and buying ones drinking water seems reasonable - though holding those responsible for it would seem more productive.
Another factor involved in this is the privatization of our public water supply to corporations. [which began under the Reagan administration (no corporation left behind) with the concept that businesses could run our public works better than our elected officials] Personally, it sounds good - but the reality of it is that it's a sham.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/58589/
Pretty neat, eh? Scamming us with our own tap water?
:balloon2:
As most of you have probably heard by now, Pepsi admitted that their "special" bottled water is nothing more than tap water from Massachussetts. Coke, Nestles and the other bottled water providers (manufacturers) will soon confess the same.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/
Now, some cities really do have disgusting water. Orlando, for instance, water tastes like it comes directly from a swamp - foul tasting stuff. Live there and buying ones drinking water seems reasonable - though holding those responsible for it would seem more productive.
Another factor involved in this is the privatization of our public water supply to corporations. [which began under the Reagan administration (no corporation left behind) with the concept that businesses could run our public works better than our elected officials] Personally, it sounds good - but the reality of it is that it's a sham.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/58589/
Pretty neat, eh? Scamming us with our own tap water?
:balloon2:
Uh, I've known for a long while that it was tap water. The information wasn't exactly secret. It's still filtered tap water and it tastes much better than what comes out of my faucet.
Innocentius
08-05-2007, 20:47
Since I'm a horrible commie who think the state should control atleast something (from the impression I've gotten this far anything to the left of conservative liberalism could be viewed as communism... thank you, Reagan and Nixon) I find it pretty absurd that private corporations should provide the drinking water. "We'll save $X-million a year if we just don't bother to filter the water first!"
Moreover, from an environmental aspect, bottled tap water is a disaster (think of all the wasted plastic etc).
Strike For The South
08-05-2007, 20:48
My tap water tastes good. Go Aquifar!!!!!!!!1111111111111
Ser Clegane
08-05-2007, 20:58
Coke, Nestles and the other bottled water providers (manufacturers) will soon confess the same.
Coca-Cola already did that a couple of years ago and it was an absolute PR fiasco for them - not only was there a lot of publicity in Europe about "Dasani" only being tap water
(http://www.independent.co.uk/living/food_and_drink/news/article71689.ece), Coca-Cola also had to recall the product from the UK market (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3550063.stm) because they managed to turn the tap water into a less healthy water, which then led to "Dasani" not being introduced in France and Germany (http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2004/03/24/coke040324.html) as planned :laugh4:
Incongruous
08-06-2007, 02:50
Mmm, over here in NZ tap water is good.
Crazed Rabbit
08-06-2007, 03:36
KafirChobee, are you trying to blame the privatization of drinking water for the soda companies selling filtered tap water, which isn't a crime at all ( though false advertising is)? You know, not every single sin in the world is Reagan's fault.
There are some workers who don't have access to water lines, and bottled water is very nice to have.
Moreover - on your assertion that private managed water utilities are 'a sham' - anecdote is not the plural of data. Yes, I'm sure there are bad examples, but there are bad examples of public utilities, too.
CR
My tap water tastes good. Go Aquifar!!!!!!!!1111111111111
Not everyone has the benefit of a bored well. Or good filters.
Another factor involved in this is the privatization of our public water supply to corporations. Another factor of what?
I don't think most people are naive enough to buy bottled water thinking it's healthier than any other filtered water. I would guess it's mostly the convenience of it that makes it popular.
As for Dasani- leave it to Coca-Cola to make bottled water that has an ingredients list. :dizzy2:
Personally, I think Dasani tastes like crap and I've always steered clear of it.
Papewaio
08-06-2007, 05:02
Mmm, over here in NZ tap water is good.
Aotearoa... Land of the Long White Cloud... the Maori name for NZ kind of gives away that it has a lot of good clear fresh water.
As apposed to Aus... Land of the Sunburnt Country... which gives away that we are looking at using either recycled water or converted sea water to supply enough freshwater.
Completily unrelated, but our tap-water is of better quality then the bottled stuff, go figure.
Sydney water is fairly good nowadays, if you disregard that huge water-scare/poor quality/high bacteria and protozoa concentrations we had in 1998. If Coca-Cola Australia uses tap-water from somewhere I'm going to move there, because it tastes pretty good.
seireikhaan
08-06-2007, 09:01
Our tap water is pretty meh, it tastes kinda funky. We get bottled water mainly for convenience, and the fact that it 'tastes' better.
Peasant Phill
08-06-2007, 16:59
The problem here seems to be false advertising IF Pepsi mentioned somewhere that it was anything but tap water. I don't have a problem with using tap water in bottles other than it should be clearly marked on the bottle.
On the matter of privatly owned services that used to public I'm more outspoken. I'm very wary towards services that have changed from the public to the private scene. Experience tells me that although the cost may be less (but certainly not in all cases) the service provided is also less.
In my country (Belgium) the energy market has recently been privatised and complaints have sky rocketed. Also the postal services will be privatised in the next couple of years and it's clear already that the fairs will go up for all except those who make daily use of postal services in huge amounts.
I don't think that these days anybody but the most liberal minded (used in the sense of as little government as possible) can claim that private is always better than public.
KafirChobee
08-07-2007, 00:56
KafirChobee, are you trying to blame the privatization of drinking water for the soda companies selling filtered tap water, which isn't a crime at all ( though false advertising is)? You know, not every single sin in the world is Reagan's fault.
True, not every sin is Reagans, 'cept those associated with deregulation and privatization.
There are some workers who don't have access to water lines, and bottled water is very nice to have.
Er, access to water is important. The arguement is?
Moreover - on your assertion that private managed water utilities are 'a sham' - anecdote is not the plural of data. Yes, I'm sure there are bad examples, but there are bad examples of public utilities, too.
No doubt there are examples of poor management in public facilities (utilities) - but, they can be held accountable. Businesses after the privatization are not. They tend to raise rates faster, and are less likely to upgrade or even maintain the infrastructure they have been given control of.
CR
The example that comes to mind is the Tennessee Valley Authourity (TVA), created under FDR to supply cheap energy to the region, and other purposes (increase economic benefits and institute new farming methods). The price of power went up there in the 70's (after the 73' oil embargo) and 80's by 5 times what it had formerly been. A small detail left out of the equation was that the voters were sold into privatization - which caused most of the increase. The Feds stepped in, retook control and it now runs efficeintly - again.
http://www.tva.gov/abouttva/history.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority
Now, one of our cities here - Ft. Worth, I believe - had total city control of their power system. After hurricane Jeanne, the cost to their consumers for electricity and water was higher than many of their mortgage payments. After a voter revolt the rates suddenly dropped back to pre-Jeanne rates. Seems a few (all, but one) of their Council-people wanted to sell the public works to a private company and got their hands stuck in the cookie jar. One is in jail, others remain under investigation - only the one remains on the Council (guess which one).
Look what privatization has accomplished in Iraq. $Billions$ in waste, and "lost" funds. Privatization breeds corruption. Always has.
Crazed Rabbit
08-07-2007, 01:11
No doubt there are examples of poor management in public facilities (utilities) - but, they can be held accountable. Businesses after the privatization are not. They tend to raise rates faster, and are less likely to upgrade or even maintain the infrastructure they have been given control of.
Yes, they can be, by canceling the contract. Slam enough lax companies and the rest will get their acts together. If this is all you've got after all these years of privatization, then it seems like its better than public utilities, especially considering cities are still turning over more things to private companies.
Now, one of our cities here - Ft. Worth, I believe - had total city control of their power system. After hurricane Jeanne, the cost to their consumers for electricity and water was higher than many of their mortgage payments. After a voter revolt the rates suddenly dropped back to pre-Jeanne rates. Seems a few (all, but one) of their Council-people wanted to sell the public works to a private company and got their hands stuck in the cookie jar. One is in jail, others remain under investigation - only the one remains on the Council (guess which one).
Gee, that sounds like a problem due to public utilities.
Look what privatization has accomplished in Iraq. $Billions$ in waste, and "lost" funds. Privatization breeds corruption. Always has.
That makes no sense - it the US govt controlling the direction of funding in Iraq. The assertion that private companies are more corrupt than public governments is absurd.
CR
Papewaio
08-07-2007, 04:06
Sydney water is fairly good nowadays, if you disregard that huge water-scare/poor quality/high bacteria and protozoa concentrations we had in 1998. If Coca-Cola Australia uses tap-water from somewhere I'm going to move there, because it tastes pretty good.
Westmead is where the factory is located... right beside Westmead Children's hospital (probably the main children's hospital for the state)... coincidence? There is also a Starbucks within the hospital... lots of caffeine for nervous parents doing all nighters.
Alexander the Pretty Good
08-07-2007, 04:11
I haven't heard anyone being forced to buy bottled water. :shrug:
Papewaio
08-07-2007, 04:57
If you ever go to Indonesia I suggest you not only use it for drinking but also for brushing your teeth.
Or you will find out what this means pretty quick:
"You are a brave or foolish man to fart in Indonesia."
Banquo's Ghost
08-07-2007, 09:57
I haven't heard anyone being forced to buy bottled water. :shrug:
:beam:
Hey, Tribesman, how's the water in Galway? :wink:
Peasant Phill
08-07-2007, 10:00
If you ever go to Indonesia I suggest you not only use it for drinking but also for brushing your teeth.
Or you will find out what this means pretty quick:
"You are a brave or foolish man to fart in Indonesia."
I can already see the slogan on posters in the airport. :laugh4:
On the topic of privitasation:
Is it really because private utilities are so much better for everyone in real life? I know the theory well enough but let me remind you all that the theory states that privately owned utilities are superior to publicly owned utilities because if they weren't they wouldn't make enough profit. Profit being their goal (while public value being the goal of public organisations).
Theory isn't real life. Consumers can't just change manufacturer (this is probably another word in English, please correct me) without costs. Thus our free market isn't a real free market but a olygopoly (lots of consumers, small number of manufacturors) at best. As such manufacturors can still make great profits without providing the best product/service.
If you ever go to Indonesia I suggest you not only use it for drinking but also for brushing your teeth.
Or you will find out what this means pretty quick:
"You are a brave or foolish man to fart in Indonesia."
How will that help if it is simply tap water?
Seriously the main thing here is that the consumer should be aware of what they are buying. Alot of people may not be aware that they are buying tap water at the premium price of mineral water. Generally such products don't have "this is only tap water" written on them, they merely don't have "this is mineral water" on the label. It is up to the consumer not to get ripped off, though I regard such products as an example of corporate cynicism.
Seriously the main thing here is that the consumer should be aware of what they are buying. Alot of people may not be aware that they are buying tap water at the premium price of mineral water. Generally such products don't have "this is only tap water" written on them, they merely don't have "this is mineral water" on the label. It is up to the consumer not to get ripped off, though I regard such products as an example of corporate cynicism.
this would mean people would have to actually take responsibility for thier choices. 1. what they buy and 2. not knowing the product they buy.
Blasphmey !
Its the Bush admins fault..... :thumbsup:
Blodrast
08-07-2007, 17:44
this would mean people would have to actually take responsibility for thier choices. 1. what they buy and 2. not knowing the product they buy.
C'mon, that's not fair... If it doesn't have "this is tap water" on the label, how the hell would one know it is tap water ?
Do you know all the ingredients in each and every product you buy ? Do you always do a thorough research on every can of sardines you buy, or on the pollution figures of the water in some corner of the Indian Ocean where your lobster/whatever fish comes from ? Also on the chemical composition of the grain that the chicken you eat is fed with ?
Please. A customer is supposed to be reasonably aware, the keyword here being reasonable. But when the company doesn't tell you exactly what the product is, you'd need to go to ridiculous (and impractical) lengths to protect yourself...
In this case, they sell you one thing and don't call a spade a spade, it's as simple as that.
C'mon, that's not fair...
When you make a purchase, its your responsibility to ensure you are getting what you pay for.
If it doesn't have "this is tap water" on the label, how the hell would one know it is tap water ?
By going to the website. on the bottle it says "for more information about our purification process visit www.aquafina.com"
No where on the bottle does it say its spring water, on the front of it in it says "purified drinking water" and thats exactly what it is
Do you know all the ingredients in each and every product you buy ? Do you always do a thorough research on every can of sardines you buy, or on the pollution figures of the water in some corner of the Indian Ocean where your lobster/whatever fish comes from ? Also on the chemical composition of the grain that the chicken you eat is fed with ?
Berating me with silly rhetoric questions evades the point of the discussion and detracts from your authenticity as a poster. Attacking through ridiculous supposition lends one to think that your position is thin to begin with.
Please. A customer is supposed to be reasonably aware, the keyword here being reasonable.
The lable states what the product is, if the customer chooses not to read it and understand what it means, they choose not to be "reasonably aware" that isnt the manufaturer's fault.
But when the company doesn't tell you exactly what the product is, you'd need to go to ridiculous (and impractical) lengths to protect yourself...
In this case, they sell you one thing and don't call a spade a spade, it's as simple as that.
the paradox of this quote is you have just done exactly what you claim the manufacture shouldnt. Im looking at a bottle of aquafina as I post this, are you? :thumbsdown:
Blodrast
08-07-2007, 18:38
No, I'm not looking at a bottle of anything - I don't have any.
I'm not berating you or anything, I'm simply asking if YOU actually go to aquafina.com, and to all the other .com's for all the products you're buying, since this is what you're suggesting. If you are, then more power to you, if you're not, then I'm afraid it's just hypocrisy.
See, the problem is that you made a blanket, absolute statement (and repeated it): "It's your responsibility to make sure you get what you're paying for.".
And I claim that that statement is, for all practical purposes, well, impossible to achieve in real life.
You know as well as I do that nobody actually goes to verify the provenience of each and every single product they buy, or the possible bad reports on some of the ingredients.
Yes, you can keep reasonably informed (e.g., IBM Deskstar hdds are crap and will die on you, so you prolly shouldn't buy one; dry & wet pet food has been contaminated, so don't buy it; etc, etc); but you can't be expected to verify each and every product you ever buy, in great detail.
If you keep supporting that one should nevertheless do so, well - shrug -, it's your prerogative; but I suspect that you know things do not work that way in real life, and I suspect you don't check everything either.
Also, I'm sorry, but "purified drinking water" is NOT the same (to me) as tap water. "Drinking water" means to me just that it's good to drink. It tells me nothing as to where it's coming from...
Also, I'm sorry, but "purified drinking water" is NOT the same (to me) as tap water. "Drinking water" means to me just that it's good to drink. It tells me nothing as to where it's coming from...
It's not tap water, but "purified tap water". That's why it doesn't taste like most crappy tap water that comes out of the facet.
I don't know why this is shocking to everyone. Like I said, I've known for years where this stuff comes from, and I haven't minded at all. I'll drink the bottled water that tastes best to me, and Aquafina actually tastes better than many of the of the so called "spring water" that I've drank.
I'm not berating you or anything, I'm simply asking if YOU actually go to aquafina.com, and to all the other .com's for all the products you're buying, since this is what you're suggesting.
the point is simple, the bottle dosent make any claims to be anything other then what it is "purified drinking water". Tap water is drinking water, the water in the bottle is purified. No one needs to visit any website, it says so right on the bottle. For those who are skeptical and want to suppose some wrong doing here, then the simple question is "whats the problem"?
Nothing in this product is misadvertised or misleading, most of the drinking water comes from the tap.
If you are, then more power to you, if you're not, then I'm afraid it's just hypocrisy.
Flatering, kind of like those who chose to suggest that someone is misrepresenting something when they havent looked at the bottle, or done the requsite 3 minutes of reading on a website to back thier claim?
See, the problem is that you made a blanket, absolute statement (and repeated it): "It's your responsibility to make sure you get what you're paying for.".And I claim that that statement is, for all practical purposes, well, impossible to achieve in real life.
Lets suppose for a minute I agree with you thats its impossible to achieve in real life, how is the expectation of that clarity then transferred to the manufacture? Again, the bottle says exactly what it is, purified drinking water. It dosent say that it is purified tap water, but the problem seems to be that some believe there is a difference, there isnt.
You know as well as I do that nobody actually goes to verify the provenience of each and every single product they buy, or the possible bad reports on some of the ingredients.
No they dont, but when your making a purchase the onus of verification is on the customer. Unless there is gross misleading by the producer of the good, that isnt the case here.
but you can't be expected to verify each and every product you ever buy, in great detail.
If you keep supporting that one should nevertheless do so, well - shrug -, it's your prerogative; but I suspect that you know things do not work that way in real life, and I suspect you don't check everything either.
I dont claim anyone should be expected to verify anything. I do expect that when people do buy something and something is revealed about the product that some form of responsibilty is taken by the customer.
Again i think it stems from the fact that I dont find anything misleading about the packaging of this product. Apparantly others do, perhaps they believe that there is a natural spring somewhere running off a mountain and the manufacture has people holding bottles in the stream and then putting a cap on it.
Also, I'm sorry, but "purified drinking water" is NOT the same (to me) as tap water. "Drinking water" means to me just that it's good to drink. It tells me nothing as to where it's coming from...
Your right it dosent say where it is coming from, and the retailer who sells it isnt required too either. If your buying something and you want to know where it is coming from you should ask, not assume.
Tribesman
08-07-2007, 20:21
I haven't heard anyone being forced to buy bottled water.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Drinkable tap water , what a novel concept .:thumbsdown:
Hey, Tribesman, how's the water in Galway?
Its fine for if you want to flush the toilet :yes:
Its funny though , the poor buggers in Kilreekil campaigned for over 50 years to get a water supply , they finaly got it in January and can't drink it .
The irony is since people are going on about the public/private suppliers . Here it is normal for the private (and expensive)group water schemes to be undrinkable for long periods , but very unusual for the public supply to be screwed .
Still on the bright side they recon we may get the choice of not having to buy bottled water by 2009 , not bad going for the 3rd largest city in a supposedly booming developed western country .
Blodrast
08-07-2007, 20:24
Apparantly others do, perhaps they believe that there is a natural spring somewhere running off a mountain and the manufacture has people holding bottles in the stream and then putting a cap on it.
Well, actually, there is; (at least some kinds of) mineral water come from such sources. They do sell bottled mineral/spring water, and it's exactly that (as opposed to purified tap water). I drank it from bottles, and I drank it from some of the branches of those springs (obviously not where they get it from, but from tiny creeks).
Anyway, I guess we're in a kind of impasse here, and I don't see how the argument can make any progress, so I'll stop.
If you felt offended at any point, it was not intentional, and you have my apologies; I was merely trying to make a point, but perhaps I didn't find the best way to do so, if you felt offended.
If you felt offended at any point, it was not intentional, and you have my apologies; I was merely trying to make a point, but perhaps I didn't find the best way to do so, if you felt offended.
No I am not offended. I do appreciate you offerring an apology, it isnt necessary. I find here in the back room that its much safer to assume the worst from fellow posters and take them literally then attempt to discern what they may or may not mean.
When someone offers me a flury of rhetorical questions I oblige with a sarcastic quip, or a pointed lecture, the intent is to match or surpass any intended sarcasm or ill will.
Perhaps not the best tactic but given some of my personal expirences, it helps sort out those who want to have a real chat from those who are talking out of there ass.
:medievalcheers:
If we were at a bar, I'd buy you a mineral water, but request the bartender remove the label just for more potential intrique.
cheers.
Blodrast
08-08-2007, 01:13
I'm aware that I was sarcastic, and it was intentional - with the intention being to prove that a literal interpretation of a certain quote would lead to ridiculous situations.
However, like I said, in hindsight, since it didn't really lead to a prolonged discussion, perhaps it wasn't the best approach.
Also, to be honest, I tend to be very sarcastic in real life, as well. I'm aware of it, but you can't always hold it in. ~D
If we were at a bar, I'd buy you a mineral water, but request the bartender remove the label just for more potential intrique.
cheers.
If we were at a bar, I'd make you buy me a beer, not stinking tap water! ~D :medievalcheers:
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