View Full Version : Wedges
Looks to me these will be more useful than in STW?
They seem to have a greater effect in wedge now.....
R they more effect in MTW than in STW?
Nobunaga0611
08-05-2002, 00:14
Yup. If you charge with say a group of knights in wedge formation, depending on who you're charging, you can actually break their formation, instead of just running into the front line like in STW.
IMO i think these will be used much more in MTW...as they do seem more affective as they should be..
My guess is also this will or should affect moral on the unit been split in 2?
chilliwilli
08-05-2002, 00:18
I only use a wedge if I have many advantages since its very easy to get your flanks attacked in this formation.
Funky Phantom
08-05-2002, 01:54
It definitely should, but im not sure if it does...
Kongamato
08-05-2002, 02:41
Well, here is what will be a prime example of the use of a Wedge Formation.
Housecarle
Almost eclipsed by newer feudal fighting men, the Vikings are approaching the twilight of their glorious history. They are extremely tough, handpicked warriors whose tactical strength lies in the 'shield wall', a formation that presents a solid front to the enemy. Vikings are only truly vulnerable if they break formation.
So, these guys will totally lose morale if you break their formation. Similar units will probably lose morale like this too. A wedge will be the sure-fire way to stop the Housecarles.
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Did they differentiate? They do not keep you distinctive. We do not have the necessity of differentiated you. I may of it no i prove differentiated between you at you that you feel you!
vyanvotts
08-05-2002, 03:02
mmmmm potato wedges
Nobunaga0611
08-05-2002, 03:18
Yeah I remember seeing that same thing in more than one description. Also, I think using a wedge formation WOULD be the only way mounted knights could defeat a unit of Billmen. So in that sense, it will add a bit more options in a battle. In STW you'd never think of sending a group of cavalry at a unit of YS. Eventhough the Billmen will probably recover from the impact of the charge, theres still a possibility that breaking their formation will give the knights just the advantage they need.
yes the bad of shogun was the excessive specialization of units , always a spear beat a cavalry unit ...in MTW that will be horrible cos it was the age of cavalry !!
no way if a cavalry unit cant rout a pikemen unit ... even swiss pikemen were somthimes in difficulty against cavalry and i dont want to see a templar charge crashing against a peasants pikemen units , can happen 1 time but must be the exception .
more often cavalry charges were broken by arrows ( Crecy , angicourt ) or because outnumbered ( nicopolis , hattin ).
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
08-05-2002, 04:48
If Knights are gonna be able to charge in wedge, surely there must be a command for foot-soldiers to be able to open their ranks (not loose) to defend against the wedge cahrge effectively at times.
What do you think? So you say have ur spearmen behind ur archers and then ur archers can open up and the knights charge through only to find themselves pinned on a spear or pike.
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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!
No Fear Legend.
MagyarKhans Cham
08-05-2002, 05:28
needless to say that vikings are as well vulnerable against teh Mongol Horde
Nobunaga0611
08-05-2002, 09:51
One of the most important things for me would be open possibilities. I mean that, a foot group with spears holding position wouldn't always win against a cavalry unit, depending on how you used that cav. Like someone's sig (I forget who, Kraellin possibly) says, 'The only thing thats absolute is, there are no absolutes'. As long as almost all things work depending on how you use them, I will be happy. (Kinda confusing, but I think you all get it)
Nobunaga0611, I did a test in STW custom battle and was able to beat 1 unit of YS with 1 unit HC with equal honour on the Ironing Board map. And yes it involved head on charge and no manouvering around the flanks.
Anyone know how I achieved this?
Give it a go and see if you can work it out.
Having said that I never used Cav in STW campaign because they simply were not cost effective.
In MTW cavalry options will be better but I am still a little concerned that infantry will still rule the battlefield particularly in campaign games where cost is everything. Cavalary will be used for chasing down the routers.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
08-05-2002, 15:06
Dr, you know I think MTW will see the use of larger cavalry armies.
As many people are tending to start off with a western european faction(england main choice) then the longbow and the men-at-arms will make up the infantry, but then all the possible types of Knights will undoubtedly turn the player to a horse-crazy buffoon and so we will see alot of cavalry. Although maybe these foot-knights will be used alot also.
For the muslim states I don't know because I don't know that much about them.
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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!
No Fear Legend.
foot-knights i think u will see many usin these http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
DarknScaly
08-05-2002, 19:42
Quote Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
If Knights are gonna be able to charge in wedge, surely there must be a command for foot-soldiers to be able to open their ranks (not loose) to defend against the wedge cahrge effectively at times.
What do you think? So you say have ur spearmen behind ur archers and then ur archers can open up and the knights charge through only to find themselves pinned on a spear or pike.
[/QUOTE]
Open ranks and die!
Extra ranks of spearmen (billmen, feudal sergeants, chivalric sergeants, pikemen etc) stop cavalry dead in their tracks (wedge or no wedge).... watching a unit of 40 chivalric knights run into a wall of 6+ deep spear-types is a joy.
The pay-off for this depth of rank is obviously frontal coverage..you need more units to cover the same frontage... I once placed 100 chivalric sergeants 8 deep on a bridge and watched them stand against the Horde for ages... they were crucifying the cavalry until the AI moved up some arrow units and started slaughtering them.
Cavalry armies are thus easy and simple to stop when defending a province..and the realtive cost of foot v horse makes them the prime choice for defence.
The "problem" for foot armies is mobility and not being able to chase-down mounted contingents - hence when attacking they are vulnerable to more mobile units and not being able to close with the enemy (and this is where mounted archers can wear them down)
..but if you attack with cavalry armies be prepared to get wasted if there are any spear-type units about... I've seen a high valour chivalric sergeant unit fend off and cream 5 heavy horse units even though totally surrounded..once the initial charge is over the horse get owned - so if you dont break such units fast you suffer tremendously.
In MTW...
... You shall witness the awesome power of the Wet Gunny Wedgie Army of Doom!
[Gunny Sargeant]: I have no rival! No man can be my equal! I must be the ruler of y'all!
GAH!
Hirosito
08-05-2002, 21:17
another story by vanya it seems...please...continue
LOL....Vanya http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
It rains then what>? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Quote Originally posted by FasT:
LOL....Vanya http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
It rains then what>? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]
It is not a question of IF it rains...
The name of that legendary army does not start with "WET" for nothing...
In rain, they excell. When its dry, they carry water canisters and have slaves spray them with water to keep the guns wet. And if they run out of water... they PEE on their guns! And if their bladders are empty... they soak them in the blood of the dead! And if there are no dead around whose blood they can bathe in... then they are in Nirvana, for there are no more heads to cut off!
GAH!
Kamui_Imagawa
08-09-2002, 03:51
er...yeah great! Well i for one am scared of your wet wedgie gun guys...but anyway! Well i think you just have to be careful with your cavalry...give them an advantage (hill, feeling fresh etc.) i think with the wedge charge they could break a unit of spearmen, if they don't break then your in trouble so i suggest using an advantage when facing spearmen however against foot knights you may as well tell your men to kill themselves to save themselves against the dis-honour of the utter massacre they would recieve.
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The assasin of night is a dangerous foe, the assasin of day is extremely dangerous
Aelfred Magna
08-09-2002, 04:05
Vanya . . . just out of sheer curiosity . . . how are these wet gun guys going to, um . . . *cut* . . . heads off?
last I checked, a lead slug wasn't exactly a cutting weapon. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
. . . sorry, couldn't resist http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
mizuYari
08-09-2002, 18:23
DrNo made a same honour HC charging same honor YS. But a YS only costs 200 bucks, while a HC costs 650. Upgrading the YS to use up all 650 bucks, you probably have H2 HC against H4 or better YS.
Charge my yari squad with heavy cav anytime and makes sure you pay for it!
MizuYari
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