Pikes in 1.2

[Goofball]

With 1.1 I was using the "pike fix" where their secondary weapon was removed to keep them from immediately switching to swords upon combat. Do pikes still do this in 1.2? Am I going to have to go through and remove all of their swords again?

Has anybody got a mod that already does this for 1.2?

[Maelstrom]

I don't know the specific answer to your question, but last night I had my longbowmen and sherwood archers overrun a couple of units of pikemen after they had exhausted their ammunition.

I was watching this closely, having never seen pikemen in action before, and in this instance they held onto their pikes throughout - much to their detriment....

They were badly depleted, and I did have a unit of cavalry hovering in the background though, in case this makes a difference.

[khaos83_2000]

I dun use pikes in mtw2. imo, They are plagued with game mechanics issues.
But pikes in rtw works WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better. At least they hold the line like they are supposed to.
Maybe i just don't know how to use them in mtw2

[Per Ole]

pikes in m2tw are not offensive weapons, they are kind of mobile "stakes" (the ones you can place with longbowmen). Pikemen form a line, and have missile troops behind them shooting at the enemy. If you want attack-troops, use swordsmen or other infantry

[khaos83_2000]

I feel that pike in mtw2 can't even HOLD the line. Maybe i just don't know how to use them. I tried using various methods e.g. activate or without defend with spear wall but they drop their spears 3 secs after impact from another enemy unit.

[Goofball]

I feel that pike in mtw2 can't even HOLD the line. Maybe i just don't know how to use them. I tried using various methods e.g. activate or without defend with spear wall but they drop their spears 3 secs after impact from another enemy unit.

You saw this happen in 1.2, or are you still using 1.1?

Modding out their secondary weapon fixes this problem. In my experience, after that "fix" is applied, pikes will hold the line quite well, definitely against cavalry, but also against infantry.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Modding out the secondary weapon makes them a little overpowered though, you have to reduce their attack or kill rate to balance them.

Pikes are brilliant for cancelling out cavalry charges. While cavalry charges are quite badly bugged and often do not work correctly, I've noticed that when they do work they can kill half of a strong infantry unit in seconds. But try a charge like that on pikemen and your horses will get minced.

I think Pikes are realistic in M2TW considering its a medieval era game, pikes then were used really as anti-cavalry units, not as the backbone line-holders that the ancient phalanxes were.

[Herkus]

I think Pikes are realistic in M2TW considering its a medieval era game, pikes then were used really as anti-cavalry units, not as the backbone line-holders that the ancient phalanxes were.
You really don't know much about real medieval warfare (and following renaissance), do you?
The Swiss reinslaufers, landsknechts, Spanish tercios etc. used pike as offensive weapon. :book:

Too bad that the pike fighting both offensively and defensively is seriously f*cked up in m2tw.

[Brutal DLX]

I have to agree. Besides the low upkeep costs, pikes are not really worth producing. They are about the only troops who can withstand even a formed charge by heavy knights, but as the others said, they are unable to hold their formation against most other troops, this being due to their switch to the secondary weapon. Sword units like those of the spanish faction and zweihanders should be the proper melee counters against pike formations, other units (including cav) should always have a hard time engaging them from the front.
IMHO, a proper fix should be done in such a way as that when in spearwall formation, pikes never switch to secondary weapons, so one has to decide whether to keep them marching at greater speed but make them more vulnerable to a sudden charge, or to move them around in spearwall formation all the time.

[Per Ole]

Well, this is a great use of pikes:

https://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5153/correctuseofpikesam5.jpg

https://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3343/correctuseofpikes2wv9.png

[Rhyfelwyr]

You really don't know much about real medieval warfare (and following renaissance), do you?
The Swiss reinslaufers, landsknechts, Spanish tercios etc. used pike as offensive weapon. :book:

Too bad that the pike fighting both offensively and defensively is seriously f*cked up in m2tw.

To be honest, I don't really know anything towards the end of the Medieval Era. But coming from Scotland, where pikes were used in much earlier medieval times, pikes here were used by the Gaels and later by the Kingdom of Scotland largely as anti-cavalry weapons, eg Bannockburn. In M2TW, pikes function well for this role. Maybe you are right and they do not reflect Renaissance era pikemen.

[hoetje]

Well, this is a great use of pikes:

https://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5153/correctuseofpikesam5.jpg

https://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3343/correctuseofpikes2wv9.png

this is probably a noob question,but how do you place them as in the last screenshot per ole?

Thanks,

Hoetje :)

[Per Ole]

Painted it for you:

https://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9234/pikeformationtm4.jpg

Hope you understand it, Here's an overview picture of the same formation in action:

https://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4465/pikeformationfu3.jpg

And here you can see how it'll work close up:

https://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1623/pikeformationupclosetb6.jpg

You can also make a full circle, however this is not really useful unless you're being sorrounded. I usually place a couple of trebuchets "inside" the formation, and also archers. Very good use of pikes imo

[hoetje]

thanks alot mate ;)
will do it soon :D

[Ars Moriendi]

@Per Ole :
I have doubts regarding the usefulness of that pike box formation.

- In singleplayer: the AI rarely tries flanking seriously so no need to completely enclose the formation, a wide deployment would be better; even worse, it limits your movement and initiative options.

- In multiplayer : don't try it, you'll lose badly. Unless it's an 1-on-1 and you know the enemy only has cavalry an he's dumb enough to charge, there's no way to win with that formation. If the enemy has a few good heavy inf units, they will eventually break the spearwall and once inside you're lost. If you're facing archers, the enemy can spread them very thin around your box, minimizing his casualties against your tightly packed missile units. Pikemen are also quite vulnerable to arrows, since they lack shields and, with the exception of the most expensive ones, armour...

[Per Ole]

I never said this formation was for mp, I don't play mp. I've found that it works great against enemies like Scotland and Denmark, armies that focus more on melee then missiles. If you try this against the mongs you'll probably be in a world of hurt (same goes for timids)

[Ars Moriendi]

I never said this formation was for mp, I don't play mp.

I know, I was just trying to cover all possible uses.

In single player, as I stated above, there is no need to close the box, as the AI never goes for the rear - so the units at the back are useless. You'd probably be better taking something else instead, like more archers or some cavalry.

It looks cool, though...

[icek]

i think there should be two types of units using pike wall: pikes and polearms(like those french militia ones). pikes should work good only againts cavalry, polearms should be more versatile. Now i think theres not much difference in battle between those besides their descriptions.