Samurai Warlords - Multiplayer desync (possible reason)

[R'as al Ghul]

Dear Samurais,

last Sunday we had more desync problems than ever before in Samurai Warlords. I've never crashed or desynced in a game before but last Sunday I crashed every single game.
My apologies to those that might have dropped because of me. If one player drops the game often gets unstable and others drop, too.
Yesterday CBR and me did some tests and I got my version running again. I tried several changes to my system but the reason was obviously a damaged directx install. The file error.log in the main folder of the game (default: Programs/Total War/Medieval - Total War/) gave this error for all the crashed games:
\Source\VikingsPatch\Crusaders_TW\main3d_1.cpp(1929) : DirectX call : DDERR_SURFACELOST

After reinstalling directx 9.0c the problem went away immediately.
I'd suggest that those people who've dropped on Sunday check their error.log file and if they have the same error as quoted above reinstall directx.
----------------------------------------------------

As a failsafe we've decided that it would be best to have a beta_5 install ready. In case we experience problems again we could then switch to beta_5 which has always been a stable version so far.

To install beta_5 you need a completely untouched vanilla MTW/VI 2.01 install. It will neither work to install over beta_8 nor over a different mod.
Download beta_5 here: (Changed this to CBR's installer like Yuuki pointed out.)http://www.mizus.com/files/files/MTW/Stats/STWmod_beta5_11b.exe
For beta_5 you also need the MP-Mappack 1-3. Download here: http://www.mizus.com/files/files/MTW/Maps/MP_MapPackVol1-3.exe
---------------------------------------------------

See you all on Sunday. Let's try beta_8 first before we decide to switch back to beta_5. Those that had problems in all or any game last Sunday should run test games before Sunday if possible.
Please give us feedback.

:bow:

R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

I should add that the error didn't show in a 4v4 Custom battle. So, even if your 4v4 custom battle test runs smoothly, that's no guarantee that a 3v3 MP match will work, too.

R'as

[Togakure]

Thanks for the info R'as al Ghul, and for the stated plan for Sunday. Days like last Sunday happen in TW MP, so not a big deal in my book. I'm glad we're going to give Beta 8 another whirl, as the idea of going backwards to Beta 5 doesn't thrill me much, though I do want to be able to play consistently without the technical issues. In the interests of all as we have only a few regular players, I'll install a copy of Beta 5 to be ready, just in case we have issues with Beta 8 on Sunday.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Roger that. THanks Ras.

[Puzz3D]

For Samurai Wars beta5, I recommend using CBR's beta5 installer (http://www.mizus.com/files/files/MTW/Stats/STWmod_beta5_11b.exe) because it comes with the 11b stats and the correct deadpage file to show corpses. The older beta5 zip file doesn't include these, so you'll need the Samurai Wars 11b stats (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Mtw_Uploads/MTWupload/samuraiwars_11b.zip) if you use the older beta5 zip. CBR's installer enables the Samurai Wars 11b stats by default. Don't use the stat swapper because you'll get the 10b stats by mistake.

[R'as al Ghul]

For Samurai Wars beta5, I recommend using CBR's beta5 installer (http://www.mizus.com/files/files/MTW/Stats/STWmod_beta5_11b.exe) because it comes with the 11b stats and the correct deadpage file to show corpses.

Ah yes, I didn't think of that. Thanks Yuuki.
I've changed the link and info.

[R'as al Ghul]

The same version that I tested with CBR last week and which ran fine then crashed again this Sunday.
My beta_5 version runs fine on the same machine with the same directx.
The directx error I mentioned above appeared in both versions, so I guess it's unrelated to our problem.
It's still the case that beta_8 runs for some people and we've been playing it for weeks/ months.
Atm I don't know what to do and how I can find out what the problem is.

Maybe I'll make a completely new MP version based on beta_5.
I did upload an add-on some time ago which contains the frontend files for the lobby, a new japanese flag and the japanese battle order icons. That should work in any case and I'll post the link again.
What I really miss from beta_8 are the great maps and the beautiful textures. Maybe they go together with the beta_5 animations. Then there's the missing reload animation for the archers, maybe that fits in, too.
What probably won't work and may be cause for the problems are the animations for cav.
I'll keep you updated.

Gah.

R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

I'm not really satisfied with switching back to beta_5.
Of course, the most important thing is being able to play the mod at all.
But I feel as if countless hours of work have been spent for nothing.
Things missing in beta_5 MP:
- models (Pagodas, Temples, cherry trees, etc)
- map textures
- cav animations
- despeckled monks (no black spots)
- rectangular unit flags
- battle-order icons
- lobby design
- a large number of clans

I'd like to hear your opinions on beta_5. What do you miss, what can be left out and what do you absolutely need in terms of graphics.


R'as

[Togakure]

Hi R'as. I can imagine your anguish. My suggestion is to make small focused changes and then test them with a number of players as you evolve beta 5 back to where beta 8 is if you go that route. This way it will be easier to isolate any issues that come up. I am available to help with testing.

Rather than open the door to a lot of great ideas, I think it would be best to focus on getting to where Beta 8 is first (with the desync problems of course), one step at a time. I'm happy now, even with beta 5--I enjoy playing, the battles, the friends. The rest is "nice to have." Getting to a stable, easy to install, relatively lagless, desync-less Beta 8 would be fabulous. Anything else after that would be icing on the cake for MP.

Thanks for your incredible contributions so far. I love what you all have done.

[Puzz3D]

I'd like to hear your opinions on beta_5. What do you miss, what can be left out and what do you absolutely need in terms of graphics.
Although I dropped a couple of times due to my network connection, there were no desyncs by anyone on Sunday with beta5. I think we are limited in our capacity to test the stability of the MP game, and therefore we should limit improvements to beta5 to those that we are confident will not affect MP stability. I also question if it is worth putting any more hours of work into this mod for MP. Also, the beta5 is compatible with vanilla MTW/VI, so players only need one install. The beta8 can continue development as an SP mod, so I wouldn't say the work that has gone into it is wasted.

The original 8 factions are sufficient for MP, and there is an advantage in that the colors are clearly distinguishable. I get confused when two players have similar colors.

There are many more maps to choose in beta5, and you can use all the seasons. Perhaps the STW textures and models are ok and we could use them, but we have to have a way of testing the stability of the game with those textures. It would also mean more work making new maps because we definitely need more large maps for MP than we have in beta8.

I'm ok with the unit graphics in beta5. A unit's graphic could be improved without affecting stability, but these are minor things. New animations are problematic because they may introduce more delay into the game which I think would reduce MP stability.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

very frustiaing for me not getting my games to work. lets go to Pike&Musket, it worked fine for me on MP lol.

[CBR]

Warman: just dont use the statswapper.


CBR

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Warman: just dont use the statswapper.


CBR


already did :sweatdrop:

[Puzz3D]

already did :sweatdrop:
Just reinstall beta5 over your beta5. The install enables Samurai Wars by default.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Just reinstall beta5 over your beta5. The install enables Samurai Wars by default.


Thank you :yes:

[Tomisama]

I'd like to hear your opinions on beta_5. What do you miss, what can be left out and what do you absolutely need in terms of graphics.


R'asRas, the things that I would like to see back most right away are rectangular unit flags, shogun lobby design.

Sorry that this hasn’t gone as well as hoped :sad:

[R'as al Ghul]

Ras, the things that I would like to see back most right away are rectangular unit flags, shogun lobby design.

Sorry that this hasn’t gone as well as hoped :sad:

Ah well. I'll get over it. Thanks for the nice words everyone.
I just find it frustrating that I can't find out why beta_8 isn't working properly.
I'm sick of operating on this black box that MTW-VI is. You feed it the same data twice and you get two results. How am supposed to test things that way? Of course it's nice to have beta_8 as a working SP mod and we can be proud of what we've accomplished but I mostly play MP these days and of course I'd like to be able to enjoy the fruits of our labour, too.

Anyway, I'm putting an installer together which will include little things like the flags, the lobby design, etc.
I'd love to slightly change the secondary colours of the beta_5 clans, too. Nothing big, no problems to be expected.
To do that I either need to change the startpos era or include a new one. With a new one we're compatible to people who don't install the patch because we still have the regular beta_5 startpos. If I overwrite the beta_5 with a changed beta_5_plus startpos we'll only be compatible to those players who install the patch.
Do you guys think that if I release a patch on Thursday or Friday, that all players manage to download that till Sunday?

R'as

[Puzz3D]

I just find it frustrating that I can't find out why beta_8 isn't working properly.
Too much was changed between beta5 and beta8. To find the problem, we would have to make one change at a time between tests.

I'd make a new era for those color changes. Also, you could fix the bug in the stat swapper by copying the Projectiles.txt dated 8/25/2006 from the main folder to the \STWprojectile\STWmod folder and overwriting the file which is there, and then including that path in the patch.

Applying a patch for next Sunday shouldn't be a problem even on short notice.

[R'as al Ghul]

Samurai Warlords - new MP addon for beta_5

Dear Sunday Samurais,

after switching back to beta_5, because of the stability problems with beta_8,
some beta_8 eye-candy was missed. I've put together an installer which will
bring some changes but won't interfere with the vanilla MTW/VI campaign or the MP side of the beta_5.
changes:

Menu frontend files
rectangular unitflag added
added the beta_8 mons for the Samurai factions
battle command buttons
battle cursors
fixed the STW Swapper


After installing you'll be compatible with beta_5 versions with or without this add-on installed. None of the changes should interfere with MP gameplay.


Download (8Mb) (http://www.mizus.com/Ras/STW_BETA5_MP_Addon_25-8-07.exe)

See you all on Sunday.

R'as

[Tomisama]

Thanks R'as, looking good :yes: :grin:

I copied the Beta 5 game (just in case), and created a “Beta 5 – Plus” version as a Samurai Warlords dedicated game.

Now with this SW dedicated game, I am looking to get the music, sounds and voices from Shogun, and transfer them to SW. The extraction for STW is simple enough, but the installation to my Beta 5 – Plus creates a swappable file system which I do not need with a dedicated copy.

I believe that the swappable file capability setup confused some who wanted the STW sounds installed, and they gave up on it. But now that others are possibly where I am in this (creating a dedicated copy), that maybe the install could be simplified with modified instructions, or another installer program?

P.S. Standard windows batch files do not work with Vista :sad:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Samurai Warlords - new MP addon for beta_5

Dear Sunday Samurais,

after switching back to beta_5, because of the stability problems with beta_8,
some beta_8 eye-candy was missed. I've put together an installer which will
bring some changes but won't interfere with the vanilla MTW/VI campaign or the MP side of the beta_5.
changes:

Menu frontend files
rectangular unitflag added
added the beta_8 mons for the Samurai factions
battle command buttons
battle cursors
fixed the STW Swapper


After installing you'll be compatible with beta_5 versions with or without this add-on installed. None of the changes should interfere with MP gameplay.


Download (8Mb) (http://www.mizus.com/Ras/STW_BETA5_MP_Addon_25-8-07.exe)

See you all on Sunday.

R'as

so After I reinstall Beta 5 over the Beta 5 version I accidently uses the stats wrapper on, I install this over that? me confuse.

[R'as al Ghul]

so After I reinstall Beta 5 over the Beta 5 version I accidently uses the stats wrapper on, I install this over that? me confuse.

Yuuki told you to reinstall beta_5 because you've used the swapper.
The old swapper is broken and once you swapped you can't get the Projectiles back that we use.
If you just install the add-on, the swapper will get fixed and you can swap the correct stats back.

[Jochi Khan]

P.S. Standard windows batch files do not work with Vista :sad:

Tomisama...
Would installing the ...choice..file to your WINDOWS/system32 allow Vista to read the batch files? I know it was needed with Windows XP.

[Tomisama]

Thanks Jochi :smile:

I checked the Vista system32, and choice is there already, so that's ok.

The problem seems to be with the copy command. From what success I have had with this so far, most other functions are performed, but because of Vista’s enhanced security, the copy command is nonfunctioning.

I am sure that there is a way around this, I just haven’t found the correct one yet.

Are you going to joining us on Sundays soon Jochi-san :yes:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Yuuki told you to reinstall beta_5 because you've used the swapper.
The old swapper is broken and once you swapped you can't get the Projectiles back that we use.
If you just install the add-on, the swapper will get fixed and you can swap the correct stats back.


Ok, SO just install the add on and I be fine right? Excellet! Cya Lat

[R'as al Ghul]

Ok, SO just install the add on and I be fine right? Excellet! Cya Lat
Yes, install the add-on and then use the swapper to get the right projectile stats.

R'as

[Puzz3D]

If the swapper won't run for you, for Samurai Wars just copy the \STWprojectile\STWmod\Projectilestats.txt file to your main game folder. To go back to MTW/VI stats, copy the \STWprojectile\VI\Projectilestats.txt to your main game folder.