Missile Infantry

[mrdun]

How exactly do I charge with infantry like Hastati without them throwing their Pila? for mexample if there is a cavalry charge in to them I want them to bhrace themselves not weaken their stance throwing Pila. Also how come on the description of Hastati their Pila "breaks" when thrown. This did not happen untill the Marius reforms so therefore enemies should be able to throw them back.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi goldendunner,

How exactly do I charge with infantry like Hastati without them throwing their Pila? for mexample if there is a cavalry charge in to them I want them to bhrace themselves not weaken their stance throwing Pila.Holding down the "Alt" key on your keyboard and then right-clicking to attack, enables missile units to begin using hand-to-hand combat prior to their projectiles running out.

Hope this helps, good luck, cheers!

[mrdun]

Ahh. Thanks Omanes, I was using Ctrl and wondering why it wasn't working.

[Caius]

This did not happen untill the Marius reforms so therefore enemies should be able to throw them back.

Actually, it was Julivs Caesar who made this reform of the pilum.

[mrdun]

Actually, it was Julivs Caesar who made this reform of the pilum.

What? Sorry Garci' but I think your are wrong this time.

http://faculty.vassar.edu/jolott/old_courses/republic1998/marius/reform.htm

[Caius]

Well, both were right! :laugh4:


Caesar later moved away from this adaptation; instead choosing to leave the iron beneath the point untempered, so that it would bend on impact and be impossible to return.

[mrdun]

I'll agree to that.:yes:

[Revenant69]

Well, I'll put in my $0.02 worth.

The pilum was later modified in such a way that when it hit someone, whether in a shield or in a body, it would bend, thus the enemy would not be able to throw it back. Moreover, the bent pilum, being stuck in a shield, seriously hindered enemy's movement.

[mrdun]

But who brought in the "bendy" pilum? I still think it was The New Man and Caesar stole it, sorry Garci.

[gaiusjulii]

But who brought in the "bendy" pilum? I still think it was The New Man and Caesar stole it, sorry Garci.

I found this:

Early pila do not seem to have had this characteristic; Gaius Marius is sometimes given credit for this modification. Opinion among archaeologists used to be that the main function of the shank was to disable the pilum by bending, but it is now thought that the pilum was a weapon designed primarily to kill, the 'non-return' aspect being an added bonus.


It seems to suggest that no really knows who created the shaft bending Pilum, maybe it was the idea of common soldiers rather than an actual reform, but who ever discovered was a bloody genius. :yes:

[Caius]

How much pila did units used to have?

[Benandorf]

Only a couple/a few, I believe.

[Stuperman]

Just to add to the confusion, didn't Caesar have his troops use the pilum as a spear against cavelry when he fought Pompey at Pharsalus. Which says to me, that they were the non-bendy kind, as they'd have to be pretty rigid to be spears.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Legionnaires in classical times (Caesar/Augustus) had two pila. A small one for a larger distance of about 30 meters and a heavier one for circa 10 meters, afaik directly before impact when charging.
That way, there was no chance the enemy could reinstall any of line or close gaps.

Not more because such a pilum is rather unwieldy and you can manage to carry two of them, but more would be a problem. If someone always dropped something, that would hinder the movement of the whole unit.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Most cavalry will NOT charge home against a hedge of spears. Training horses to that level is difficult at best. Bayonets at the end of a rifle are only a little longer than a pilum, yet Napoleon's finest cavalry never swamped a "square." The cavalry edge away from such a defense...unless the defender breaks formation. Romans weren't much for breaking formation (decimation if you did and all that).

The Pilum, though rather short for true spear work, still gave the Roman legio a weapon which could form such a "hedge" at need.

If a charge did go home against such a hedge, the bending of pila-heads as they stuck into enemy horses and shields would have been irrelevant. The Romans would be quickly dropping any such weapons anyway as they fought all close combat with sword and shield. Keeping a spear in a melee when you're trained mostly with a sword wouldn't be a good call.

[Randal]

It's not so much the line of spears they will not charge. It's a solid line of bodies, that appears to a horse to be like a brick wall. Nobody will run head-first in a brick wall, and neither will any horse.

The spears are needed so the infantry can actually strike at the riders effectively. If the riders have longer reach than the infantry, they still have the advantage because the infantry needs to stay in line.

[SpartanPhalanx]

It's not so much the line of spears they will not charge. It's a solid line of bodies, that appears to a horse to be like a brick wall. Nobody will run head-first in a brick wall, and neither will any horse.

The spears are needed so the infantry can actually strike at the riders effectively. If the riders have longer reach than the infantry, they still have the advantage because the infantry needs to stay in line.
Doesn't stop my idiotic scythed chariots charging into the odd phalanx when I've ordered them to charge into skirmishers though :thumbsdown:

[ixidor]

Now THAT wouldn't be too good for the chariots' "health", would it? :laugh4:

[ShaiHulud]

How exactly do I charge with infantry like Hastati without them throwing their Pila?

The 'Fire at Will' button! Turn it to off and they'll not throw. On and they'll throw till they're depleted. In the case you offer, they'll just throw one and then charge, unless Fire at Will is off..