View Full Version : Archers?
Forward Observer
08-16-2002, 05:26
With all of the various archery units in MTW, will there be any as versatile as the Samurai archers in STW? I mean let's face it, after they ran out of arrows, they could act as passable melee troops.
I think that longbowmen, for example, didn't carry any other weapons except maybe a simple dagger. This kind of relegates them to the same status as musketeers in
STW. Just curious.
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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
Papewaio
08-16-2002, 05:53
Quote Originally posted by Forward Observer:
I think that longbowmen, for example, didn't carry any other weapons except maybe a simple dagger. This kind of relegates them to the same status as musketeers in
STW. Just curious.
[/QUOTE]
... a simple dagger, and a bloody large maul...
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
08-16-2002, 06:10
I don't think that MTW will have anything like samurai archers because the principals were different.
In Japan saurai were samurai. If one chose to use the bow he did, but he was also skilled in the arts of sword-fighting.
In Europe an archer was an archer. He was not expected to do much more than that therefore he wasn't trained to do more than that. For that armies had men-at-arms and knights.
So I doubt you will find any archers units as stable as the samurai archers from STW and MI.
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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!
No Fear Legend.
DarknScaly
08-16-2002, 07:10
Some of the turkish units are passable infantry as well as archers - indeed many of their infantry units are passable archers as well as good infantry (Ottomoan infantry springs to mind.)
Trebizond archers are dodgy light infantry, desert archers are useless in mellee... hmm Futuwas are both good archers and good infantry (light armoured but fanatics)..and longbowmen with armour upgrades are also pretty good - especially high valour ones... (they carry hand axes and bucklers in the game btw)
Theres another Turkish unit that is a cross between an archer and an infnatryman (cant remember its name [turcomon foot i think]) and of course some of the Jannisary units are both.
Byzantine Cavalry are both mounted archers and reasoanble mounted troops, Sipahi-of-the-porte. again both good archers and excellent heavy cav.
Hand gunners are actually very heavily armoured and thus have pretty darn good defence in mellee (except against units with armoured attack bonuses), hmm Mongol INfantry of course are both archers and mellee types...
probably some others I forget.
Normal archers and xbowmen are pretty useless in a scrum, Genoese sailors not much better but they can move fast, arbalasters and pavise arbalasters are useless in attack but not totally useless in defence (especially the pavise guys who get the shield defence bonus).
thats about all i can think of right now.
Emp. Conralius
08-16-2002, 08:22
took the words right outta my mouth....
almost all archer units of the middle ages could fight in melee and were equipped with large melee weapons too, the most popular during medievil times i think was things like single headed war hammers...
Rob The Bastard
08-16-2002, 14:50
So...to summarize...
The archers may be completely craven and run like headless chickens...
or
Come complete with bloody great big rat bashers that will give panel-beating a new meaning.
Sweet.
Quote Originally posted by Forward Observer:
I think that longbowmen, for example, didn't carry any other weapons except maybe a simple dagger. This kind of relegates them to the same status as musketeers in
STW. Just curious.
[/QUOTE]
Historically the longbowmen were armed with swords and daggers and were quite capable to defend themselves in hand-to-hand combat. Of course, they had less armour then a man-at-arm so they could not fight on equal terms but they did not run away from close combat.
What about the naptha throwers, I never had the chance to get MI so I never used Thunder Bombers, but do they have any melee value?
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What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.
[This message has been edited by NARF (edited 08-16-2002).]
Emp. Conralius
08-17-2002, 05:29
Quote Originally posted by NARF:
What about the naptha throwers, I never had the chance to get MI so I never used Thunder Bombers, but do they have any melee value?
[/QUOTE]
they wreak.....
Emp. Conralius
08-17-2002, 05:30
what's with the fac that in MTW, the longbowmen whip out axes (rather large ones) in hand to hand combat?
Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
they wreak.....[/QUOTE]
I think you're refering to their bomb's rahter than h-t-h Emp.
Thunder Bombers do have h-t-h ability but it's very poor, same as ashi ranged units like Arq & X-bow.
Also with the range of thunderbombers being very poor the best way I found to use them, is to get another unit to engage the enemy unit you want to destroy, and have the bombers come up right behind your unit as it's attacking and blow the enemy away.
i.e. peasents positioned in front of your bombers. They are lethal when they can get their bombs away, taking out any unit no matter how strong it is.
I would guess Naptha Throwers will be about the same in range and effect so similar tatics should work.
NapthaThrowers are much better in melee.....
NT:
CHARGE_BONUS( 1 ), MELEE_BONUS( 0 ), DEFENCE_BONUS( 2 ), ARMOUR_LEVEL( 3 ), HONOUR_LEVEL( 2 ), AMMO( 3 )
....while Thunder Bombers literaly have (0,-6, -3, 2) to fight with fists.
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I am the law and you can't beat the law.
DarknScaly
08-17-2002, 19:49
Quote Originally posted by Emp. Conralius:
what's with the fac that in MTW, the longbowmen whip out axes (rather large ones) in hand to hand combat?[/QUOTE]
even nowadays all Welshmen carry axes and small bucklers - even when going to work.
THis is known....
Papewaio
08-20-2002, 06:48
Quote Originally posted by DarknScaly:
even nowadays all Welshmen carry axes and small bucklers - even when going to work.
THis is known....[/QUOTE]
Dark are you from Cymru?
TheLordofWater
08-21-2002, 07:28
ohhhhh i wish the archers good melee like LOTR elves
were do the longbowmen keep the axes and bucklers?
Azmogeddon
08-21-2002, 14:59
Back pocket. ACME blow-up instant weaponry.
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Azmo
[long-time lurker]
Quote Originally posted by Prodigy:
NapthaThrowers are much better in melee.....
NT:
CHARGE_BONUS( 1 ), MELEE_BONUS( 0 ), DEFENCE_BONUS( 2 ), ARMOUR_LEVEL( 3 ), HONOUR_LEVEL( 2 ), AMMO( 3 )
....while Thunder Bombers literaly have (0,-6, -3, 2) to fight with fists.
[/QUOTE]
The problem is that there is only 12(standard) men in a unit though so get outnumbered all too easily. I think a 100 man peasent unit may well beat them in straight h-t-h, no bombs!
Best to use the bombs and then get them out of harms way for next battle as they cost 4 times as much as peasents.
One thing that is interesting is support cost. Applying the formula..
12/10 * 1.238 * 5 = 7.428 florins a turn, compared with something like 37 for Peasents. So could prove to be a great unit to keep for defensive duties.
Stephen Hummell
08-21-2002, 19:17
The naptha throwers have MC hammer pants on for some reason.
Quote Originally posted by Stephen Hummell:
The naptha throwers have MC hammer pants on for some reason.[/QUOTE]
It's their big trouser pockets for storing their 3 molotov cocktails http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Stephen Hummell
08-21-2002, 19:40
The naptha throwers chants:
can't touch this.
Too legit. Too legit to quit.
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