(Romani) What auxilia do you use?

[Rodion Romanovich]

I installed EB again - first time since pre 0.8, and I see there are plenty of improvements since last time I played :2thumbsup:

One consequence of the changes is however that I no longer know much about how (which government) to get good auxilia and where (which province/city). I remember there was some excel sheet or similar with this info, but I can't seem to find it, plus I don't have excel :shrug:

If someone happens to know off the top of their heads, units that I'd be especially interested in info on, are: sotaroas, any heavy infantry (comparable to principes or better/larger unit size if possible!) available to recruit in Gaul or Germania, and finally scutarii or other Iberian infantry units. Slightly OT considering the thread title, I'm also wondering when the Camillan era ends and I get improved infantry?

Apart from this, I'm also interested to hear what strategy for auxilia units other EB players like to use in their Romani campaigns. Which units did you find most helpful? What auxilia strategy would you recommend me to use?

[bovi]

Check out Arkatreides' unit cards, it's a sticky.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I generally use auxilia units that are easy to find, since I'm already having to deal with core units that have to be shipped in for replacements. For missiles, I usually use Celtic Slingers in Gaul & Germania, Balaric Slinger mercs in Iberia, Cretan Archer mercs in Greece/Thrace/Asia, and Persian Archers in the Middle East. Before Marian Reforms I ship Roman Cavalry everywhere, afterwards I use Iberian, Gallic, and Thracian Avxilia cavalry across Europe and Median Cavalry in the Middle East. Sometimes I use local levies or mercs to add a couple expendable infantry. (Africa and Eqypt are basically a recruitment void for the Romans right now, so you have to ship everything in to those places.)

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thanks, I checked those unit cards. However, they didn't include iosatae, which I know I can recruit, so it isn't complete for the romans yet... Well I guess I'll have to use the simple way of finding out: testing!

[jhhowell]

(Africa and Eqypt are basically a recruitment void for the Romans right now, so you have to ship everything in to those places.)

What are you talking about? Africa is awesome for Roman auxilia. Numidian skirmishers are AFAIK the best javelin units in the game, and the associated cavalry is quite handy as well. Not to mention the elephants in Ippone and Kirtan. From what I've seen, Egypt has the usual Greek auxilia, which is no bad thing. Akontistai aren't as good as Numidians, but you use what's handy, and they're dirt cheap. Peltasts are also very nice - unlike the other javelin units they're still a capable light infantry unit after the ammo runs out. After the Marian reforms I can see Hippeis being valuable, since most of the Marian cavalry looks rather poor (I'll miss my Equites Extraordinarii...).

For the legions themselves, the only auxilia I use are the missile units, since Accensi, Leves, and Velites are both lower quality than the various auxilia counterparts, and have to go back to Italy to retrain. Balearic mercs or Iosatae for slings, Numidians or Peltasts for javelins (Akontistai if there's nothing better handy), and the Danube legions drop the javelin slot for Sotaroas instead. Where practical Numidian cavalry supplements the cavalry component of the legion. And a couple of armies have elephants, too. :beam:

Iberia is pretty good for local rebel-quashing infantry (Caetrati); in principle the various Greek regions should be too (Classical Hoplites). The Alps offer Noricene Gaecori, which suck less than the standard Gallic infantry you can recruit. Sadly you can't get the Gallic swordsmen with a level 2 government. The only way to get principes or better quality infantry that I know of is via mercenaries (Scutari and Scortamareva in Iberia, Mercenary Pezhetairoi in many coastal provinces, Gallic swordsmen up in the Alps and Gaul, plus the Samnites who you can potentially recruit in your faction MICs in south Italy anyway).

Cretan archers require a level 3 or 4 government on Crete; my habit is to always build the minimum numerical value for governments, so I'll make do with mercenaries like I do with the Balearics in the western Med. Missile units tend not to take heavy casualties... Regarding the Balearics, the first three levels of regional MIC offer nothing on the island; perhaps you can get slingers from the fourth (or fifth?), if it's worth it to you.

Marseilles is a noteworthy city, since it offers the Celtic auxilia plus many of the Greek ones too. One suspects that a level 3 or 4 government might allow one to recruit Massilian Hoplites, which may or may not be a desirable tradeoff.

Not sure if Rome can get the Syrian archers; that would rock!

Don't bother with the MICs in Illyricum, all you get is a really lousy melee cavalry unit (from memory, 4 AP attack, 14 defense, may charge without orders).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I don't use many skirmisher or skirmisher cavalry. I use Leves or Velites early on, but don't want to ship them far from Italy. It is much better to use Pila for skirmisher purposes. Plus, Numidian Skirmishers are some of the most boring looking units in EB. Then there are the elephants, which are way too expensive for their amount of combat return, so I don't use them either. So, for me, there is nothing of interest in Africa.

P.S. Rome gets Syrian Archers, but needs TypeIII or TypeIV to get them. They are great, but I usually build TypeIIs in Syria and Assyria.

[jhhowell]

I don't use many skirmisher or skirmisher cavalry. I use Leves or Velites early on, but don't want to ship them far from Italy. It is much better to use Pila for skirmisher purposes. Plus, Numidian Skirmishers are some of the most boring looking units in EB. Then there are the elephants, which are way too expensive for their amount of combat return, so I don't use them either. So, for me, there is nothing of interest in Africa.

P.S. Rome gets Syrian Archers, but needs TypeIII or TypeIV to get them. They are great, but I usually build TypeIIs in Syria and Assyria.

Ah, that makes sense. I disagree, but I can see where you're coming from. ~:)

Out of curiosity, how do you deal with armies consisting almost entirely of phalangites (often with a few normal heavy infantry mixed in - say a bunch of pezhetairoi with those Ptolemaic galatians)? Those are the main motivation for skirmishers in my African armies. I find that the pila just don't have the ammo to do much, and I try very hard not to let a unit get stuck pinning a phalanx for very long (the good phalanxes can survive a "sandwich" long enough to do a lot of damage to the guys facing the spearpoints, in my battles). So mounted and foot skirmishers help me a lot; if I can get the foot skirmishers behind a phalanx, perhaps as it's first making contact with a unit, a couple of volleys of javelins absolutely devastates it.

I also find it satisfying and appropriate to clean up small phalanx detachments in the desert with pure Numidian groups (2 foot, 2 cav vs. 3 klerouchikoi phalangitai - that was fun).

Re: elephants, if I cared about money, I wouldn't have built them. :beam: Indeed the high cost is something of a feature, not a bug, much like my fleets of quinquiremes. Gotta at least try to avoid those Nota Censoria and related traits. As for actual usefulness, I think I'm running about 50/50 very effective/useless so far. Depends whether the AI has skirmishers, and whether I notice them if they do...

[LordCurlyton]

I use whatever auxillia the locals provide. Whenever I play Romani I tend to build Type IV everywhere outside of Italy proper until I have built everything available, then I upgrade to Type III, repeat the build process, then upgrade to Type II if possible (which is vastly more often than not). Maybe my next go with the Romani will see me actually get rid of the highest level regional MIC a I do so, though I might wait until the Marians to do that as I feel that helps the feel of standardization and Romanization of my captured territories that I like. And besides, Rome used many allies, so I don't let it bother me.
EDIT: And until the Marians the most common cavalry you will use outside of Equites of both stripes is Brihentin from allied Gallic territories (Type IV gov) and Hippeis from the VAST number of Hellenic-influenced territories (Type II, III, or IV). And don't knock the Illyrian lights, they put up a much better show than the stats would seem to indicate. In and around Illyria I will use them instead of my nearby Roman cavalry, with one Equites Extraordinarii to deal with those pesky heavier cav units.

[gran_guitarra]

I find that its good to build a type 3 or 4 government in 1 out of every four or five settlements, spaced as evenly as possible. Odds are you will usually get most of the auxiliaries available.

I usually use either purely legionary stacks, or "allied" stacks with support. I find the best auxiliaries to be:
Iberi Scutari/Hastati Samnitici for standard infantry, Neitos for elite infantry (Triarii stats with a sword), any good cavalry unit from Gaul or Hippies, and Toxotai Kretikoi/Thraikoi Peltastai/Peltastai for skirmishers (I like people who don't need as much babysitting).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Ah, that makes sense. I disagree, but I can see where you're coming from. ~:)

Out of curiosity, how do you deal with armies consisting almost entirely of phalangites (often with a few normal heavy infantry mixed in - say a bunch of pezhetairoi with those Ptolemaic galatians)? Those are the main motivation for skirmishers in my African armies. I find that the pila just don't have the ammo to do much, and I try very hard not to let a unit get stuck pinning a phalanx for very long (the good phalanxes can survive a "sandwich" long enough to do a lot of damage to the guys facing the spearpoints, in my battles). So mounted and foot skirmishers help me a lot; if I can get the foot skirmishers behind a phalanx, perhaps as it's first making contact with a unit, a couple of volleys of javelins absolutely devastates it.

I also find it satisfying and appropriate to clean up small phalanx detachments in the desert with pure Numidian groups (2 foot, 2 cav vs. 3 klerouchikoi phalangitai - that was fun).

Re: elephants, if I cared about money, I wouldn't have built them. :beam: Indeed the high cost is something of a feature, not a bug, much like my fleets of quinquiremes. Gotta at least try to avoid those Nota Censoria and related traits. As for actual usefulness, I think I'm running about 50/50 very effective/useless so far. Depends whether the AI has skirmishers, and whether I notice them if they do...
I never have much success with missiles against phalanxes. When I got up against phanlanxes, I use either a phanlax army, horse archers, or (for the Romans) mobility of units to encircle the enemies before they can setup properly. Then I hit them with cavarly, if I have it.

---
For those of you that like setting up Type4, building up, then setting up Type2, there will be at least two new 'features' in the next release that will make this 'cheat' impossible. Enjoy it while you can.

[LordCurlyton]

I hardly see it as a "cheat". Its not like the Romans would have stopped using the available cavalry as they transitioned from allied state to mostly-Romanized province, no? That's the basis of the Marian cavalry auxillaries, no? Or am I totally missing the mark? In any case, I said I get rid of them come the Marians since those nobles would no longer be recruited as noble units but enlist in the Roman Auxilia. Or am I again severely mistaken?
As far as missiles vs phalanx backs: it works, really really well. Especially if its HA or slingers, but any decent missile unit will rip the backside of a phalanx up. Akonitostoi and Peltasts are terribly effective, especially the Akonitostoi since they have so many javelins.
EDIT: Again I posted before putting all I had down. I meant to mention that going from Type IV to Type II by way of building everything takes somwhere on the order of 2-3 generations. So say roughly 200-250 turns, depending on how much local infrastructure is irreplacable.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It's not exactly a cheat, but the team wants recruitment to be based on governments. Due to changes between 1.2 and 1.5, recruitment can no longer check if there are buildings present, so a workaround was made so that buildings that recruit check for governments. I don't think this is a major leak, so I'll just tell you. In the next release, if you have MICs that a certain government wouldn't be able to make, then you can't make that government.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Two questions:

1. do type IV ever unlock anything that type III doesn't unlock? Most units I've seen mentioned as non type I/type II seem available in both type III and type IV. So is there ever any reason to build type IV instead of type III?

2. type IV unlocks higher "auxilia MICs" (those that I've only been able to build 2 levels of in my type I government settlements), and they in turn unlock more auxilia, right? In that case I think I understand how the governments work now!

[mcantu]

It's not exactly a cheat, but the team wants recruitment to be based on governments. Due to changes between 1.2 and 1.5, recruitment can no longer check if there are buildings present, so a workaround was made so that buildings that recruit check for governments. I don't think this is a major leak, so I'll just tell you. In the next release, if you have MICs that a certain government wouldn't be able to make, then you can't make that government.


I believe that RTRPE (which is for 1.5) has recruitment based on what buildings are present. Its been a while since I played it so I might be wrong

[bovi]

In the next release, if you have MICs that a certain government wouldn't be able to make, then you can't make that government.

Not precise. You will be able to make the government, but not the MIC. If you have a level 5 regional MIC and type I government, you cannot create a faction MIC of higher level than 1 unless you demolish the regional MIC.

[Ludens]

1. do type IV ever unlock anything that type III doesn't unlock? Most units I've seen mentioned as non type I/type II seem available in both type III and type IV. So is there ever any reason to build type IV instead of type III?

2. type IV unlocks higher "auxilia MICs" (those that I've only been able to build 2 levels of in my type I government settlements), and they in turn unlock more auxilia, right?
Yes. It used to be that the governement determined the kind of units you could recruit in your MICs, but 1.5 introduced a feature that resulted in CTDs when this method was applied. The EB team switched to the current system where the governement does not directly determine what units you can recruit, but how far you can upgrade your factional and regional MICs. The type IV governement allows construction of the level 5 regional MIC (type III only level 4) and hence the most elite regional units. However, since there are very few level 5 units that are also regionals, in most provinces the level 5 regional MIC does not recruit anything the level 4 can't either.

However, since type IV governements often (but not always) provide a bonus to trade income, it still may be preferable to build them over type III's.

[Rodion Romanovich]

ok!

[Magister Militum Titus Pullo]

As Roma, I would recruit numerous Neitos units from northern Italy as they're similar in their professional outlook to Marian-era legionaries. I would transfer Greek hoplites and toxotoi from Sicily as well as Samnite and Lucanian mercenaries to Africa, given the ineffectiveness of Numidian infantry in defensive roles. If a provincial city has less than six thousand in its population, then I would either recruit mercenaries, or lower quality infantry (pantodapoi, psiloi, velites), send them to the city in question, and disband them there. Post-Marian, anythings useful to me.

[antisocialmunky]

Celtic Slingers are one of my top picks, they are all over Europe. Quality wise, I like the Iberian units since I play with 10 stack armies as the Romans. Low level melee units are good cannon fodder since you're stuck moving people from Italy and pretty much everyone else's ranged units are better than your own.