Help - just encountered the Mongols

[rahnz]

I've just finished my first long-term campaign playing as HRE. I have conquered 46 regions (including Denmark/Scandanavia, France, Milan, Sicily, almost all the Venetians, most of Hungary, half of Poland, and some of England) in about 110 turns (it's 1310 or so). However, just as I completed the game by taking Rome, and not having encountered them in my whole game before, I ran into a gigantic horde of Mongols (about 10 stacks, all with Khans with completely maxxed out stats) who are centred around Kiev. I immediately rushed heaps of forces to meet them, but it is a bit of a shambles (I don't have many strong armies put together yet, because most are off attacking cities to the south and far west). Only about three stacks are directly heading into my lands, the rest are kind of circling around Kiev and to the east of that.

I've read heaps of threads about fighting the Mongols etc and am not so worried about specific battle tactics, but I'd like advice on overall strategy based on the position I have reached (ie. having conquered most of Europe). Should I retreat and let them take some of my cities to create a buffer, then consolidate my forces, and try to push them back? Or shall I just keep amassing armies together and counter-attacking them?

I'd be grateful for any tips on overall strategy here. Thanks!

[FactionHeir]

Seeing how you have a large empire and thus likely many castles, I would just stall them for a while by building a fort or two they can waste time on while you raise several strong armies nearby.

As for composition, you want to have a lot of missiles (pavise) and spearmen (sergeants) to defeat them. Heavy fast cavalry is useful too, so you'd want to get several mailed knights for taking out their archers and imperial knights for holding their cavalry.
Don't really need artillery against Mongols.

Your advantage is terrain really, as their units get penalties for fighting in woods and grassland while yours get a bonus. So it doesn't matter where you engage them.
Some will say that you should hold bridges and defend against siege, but tbh, that is not necessary and costs you a lot of upkeep in the long run if they stay relatively idle, which they tend to do.

Just pick a general or two and send them running back to the east.

[Iavorios]

Your situation is quite good actually. Plaing HRE is one of the essayist in this game. If you dont install 1.02 you will be swimming in gold (because of the printing press), but even with it you still have banks, so you should be very rich. And you have all the unit types you need to fight the horde- heavy spears and crossbows, and heavy cav, and heavy infantry, all coming out of a fortresses. So if the Mongols are still in Kiev, make sure you grab Iasu, Bran and Sofia fast. These are all by this time citadels, so you will be able to produce huge armies in no time, close to the battlefield. Block the bridges, the passes and garnison these tree citadels to the top, and this is it. Hell, just to tace Iasu and Bran the mongols will have to sacrifice more then 5 full stacks, that is if you decide to fight them in sieges only.

It will be wise to get Thorn and Halych, just to make sure the mongols don't get there. At the end i thing that 3 full stacks at south, and one north will be more then enough to kill the horde, no matter what.

[Cras]

They can be quite annoying with they cavalry archers.

How I fight:
I have a large number of archers (7+) too to fight the horse units
I have the archers use the spear defence option
I put spearman on the sides (they always try to flank you)
try to make them shoot on my heavy armoured units (they can handle an arrow or 2)
I make sure terrain is on my side (defend hill tops)
Fight in the forrest and use horsemen to suprise attack them from the sides and take out they archers on foot

and off course.. if I can fight from a city who has cannons, its a piece of cake!

[TeutonicKnight]

If he's playing the HRE, archer stakes aren't really an option. However, the year means you've got plenty of good gunpowder, and halberds to hold the line, backed by Imperial troops.

Since all you are asking about is grand strategy though, I would totally rely on defeating them through a defensive strategy. Defend your cities and castles, and when they take a town, you can counterattack them. The biggest problem I have with the Mongols is usually related to their speed - I can only kill them when they are engaging, and they are able to get away when they rout. Trapping them in a city, or with a fort, makes this impossible and you can kill a lot of troops. So you need a mobile attack force just a little behind the expected line of advance.

Also, a massive assassin spam can be very handy as well, but good assassins take time to train. As the HRE, I usually shoot for an assassins guild in Frankfurt right from the start of the game.

[avery123]

Hi Rahnz,

As the Mongols are primarily a mobile force, who wreak havoc with their missile archers, you need to get them pinned down in one place.

Forts are great for this. Not for fighting from within them, but for attacking an enemy who is stuck inside one.

Build a few forts around a good choke point, such as on the enemy side of a bridge, in a defensive arc shaped wall, with one good army behind them, sitting on the bridge.

The idea is that the Mongols try and take one of the forts. Keep at least one crap unit inside each fort, so the Mongols are tempted to try and capture it.
When they do, counter-attack with your one super army, using lots of flaming artillery.

Your counter-attacking army must be very big... if it's too small, the Mongols will be tempted to leave the fort and pursue you.. you don't want this.
You should be able to crush them where you want them... inside the cramped little fort.
In fact, there are even tactics that will help you block the fort doors, stopping them from escaping... Check it out.

I learned of these tactics from some very useful guys on here...


Fort fences::book:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90411
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=90433
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88889


Door blocking tactics::book:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=89611

Good luck

:balloon2:

[rahnz]

Thanks very much guys for your help and advice. I appreciate it. I have already managed to turn them back somewhat, and now have a massive concentration of my armies in the area. Thanks again.