Neverending crusade

[Cheetah]

Well, I need some help about crusades. The situation is as follows: I am playing as England and doing resonably well. I want to call a crusade vs Antioch, the only problem that there is an ongoing crusade on Tunis (held by Sicily) which is unlikely to end in the near future.
Tha AI factions were not too enthusiasctic about this crusade on the first place. Out of the 3 factions which joined, two armies already disbanded (Danes, French) and one parking near Bordeaux (a Hungarian one), so AI factions wont take Tunis for sure.
Also several Popes died in the meantime and it did not help.
Of course, I could take Tunis by force but I am playing a diplomatic game and just made a fresh marriage alliance with HRE, long term allies of Sicily. I am both worried about my reputation (which is highly reliable) and about the alliance with HRE.

My questions are as follows:

1, How long a crusade can be on? Will it ever end if no one takes Tunis?

2, Can the death of faction leader end the crusade? (As they should be reconciled.)

3, Do I suffer a repuation hit if I join the crusade (as I have to declare war on Sicily), or is it "for free"?

4, Can I end the crusade by buying out Tunis from the Sicilians? (not that they want to sell it ...)

5, Will the crusade end if a third party (like Egyptians) capture it?

Many thanks for the help.

ps. bonus question ~:) : which one is stronger: a long term allience or a fresh marriage alliance?

[DVX BELLORVM]

1. A crusade will last as long as the generals who joined it are still alive. It will end if the target faction gets reconciled, or the settlement is captured by someone else.

2. I think so. But they should be reconciled when the pope dies, but it didn't happened. Maybe because the Sicily is in war with the Papal states (is it?).

3. You don't suffer reputation hit for joining a crusade, but you do for declaring a war :beam: . So the answer would be: yes

4. yes

5. yes


ps. bonus question ~:) : which one is stronger: a long term alliance or a fresh marriage alliance?

A marriage alliance should be stronger (as stated in the manual), but don't expect either one to last, especially if you share a border.

[Cheetah]

Thx. Yes, Sicily is in war with the Papal states. So I guess that the death of the faction leader wont help either? Also, as I said two out of three crusading armies already disbanded so only the Hungarian one is still alive. Does it means that when the Hungarian crusader general dies the crusade will be called off?

ps. I dont have shared border with the HRE ~D but I did have both marriage alliance and shared border (Bruges) with the Danes and the alliance still holds.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

If you kill the general leading the crusading army the crusade will fail. If you don't mind using an assassin or two, killing the general will do the trick.

3. I don't think you can still join the crusade. Usually one can only join a crusade 9 turns after it is called.

[FactionHeir]

Dux Bellorum answered most of them correctly, with exception of:

3. There is no reputation hit for declaring war as far as I know, as long as you are not allied to them or have taken protection payment.

5. No. As Egypt is not a catholic/orthodox faction, the crusade would continue.

[DVX BELLORVM]

Does it means that when the Hungarian crusader general dies the crusade will be called off?
Yes, it will. If you don't want to wait until the nature do its job, you can help it with your assassin :beam:

ps. I dont have shared border with the HRE ~D but I did have both marriage alliance and shared border (Bruges) with the Danes and the alliance still holds.
The AI can surprise sometimes by sticking to the deal. I once had a game-lasting alliance with Russians, and we shared a border for most part of the game. Give them a few hundred FL once in a while and the alliance should last longer.



3. There is no reputation hit for declaring war as far as I know, as long as you are not allied to them or have taken protection payment.
Are you sure about that? I mean, if assassination causes a reputation hit, I would be surprised if declaring a war doesn't.


5. No. As Egypt is not a catholic/orthodox faction, the crusade would continue.
Thanks for correcting me. I forgot that only if non-crusading christian faction captures a settlement, the crusade is called off...

[FactionHeir]

Actually assassination doesn't cause any reputation hit at all either. Only if it leads to breaking of your alliance, i.e. you failing to assassinate a family member of an ally.

[DVX BELLORVM]

Actually assassination doesn't cause any reputation hit at all either. Only if it leads to breaking of your alliance, i.e. you failing to assassinate a family member of an ally.
Based on my experience, I think it does. But then I might be wrong...

In my current Turks campaing (M), my reputation is Very untrustworthy, once even Deceitfull. I never sacked or exterminated a settlement, only a few times executed prisoners, I've never broken an alliance. I am at war with 5-6 catholic faction (results of a crusades), and I'm aware that this drags my reputation down, but I don't think this is the only reason for low reputation.

I use a lot of assassins, and for me, they are the only logical explanation for my low reputation...

[FactionHeir]

I have no problems maintaining very trustworthy/immaculate reputation when not at war but happily assassinating.
There is no trigger for lower reputation as a result of assassination in faction_standing.txt

[DVX BELLORVM]

I have no problems maintaining very trustworthy/immaculate reputation when not at war but happily assassinating.
There is no trigger for lower reputation as a result of assassination in faction_standing.txt
Thanks for explaining. I haven't unpacked the files and don't have any info for those triggers.
I guess being at war decreases reputation much more than I thought it does. On the other hand, I can now continue to assassinate everybody without worrying that my reputation will drop as a result ~D

[FactionHeir]

It drops by a percentage towards Despicable (more, if you are trustworthy, less if already untrustworthy) each turn for being at war for each faction. So if you are at war with a lot of people, your reputation tends to drop very quickly over time.

Alliances raise reputation over time btw.

[ReiseReise]

This seems to be an unfortunate side effect of the AI not following the same rules as the player. If you made a crusade army and did not move it for several turns it would disband, however CA realized that their AI was too stupid to move towards its target, so rather than making a smarter AI, they broke the rule. If they didn't, every AI crusade army would disband after 3 turns. I want to laugh and cry at the same time.

I guess all you can do if you don't want to assassinate the general is to wait it out. Is Antioch really that important to you? If it has been captured by Egypt it will be a declaration or war, and I thought you were trying to play a diplomatic game... Crusades (and Jihads) are hardly diplomatic, they are the best example of religion at its worst. Back to the point - if you take Antioch you might be facing tough opposition by Egyptian forces trying to take back their city, forcing you into another war which your diplomatic game would certainly disagree with.

My true suggestion for your diplomatic game. Side note: why are we talking about diplomacy - this is TOTAL WAR If you want Total Diplomacy play Europa Univeralis. Anyway, if assassins are against your rules, Buy Tunis: butter up the sicilians, give them territory (which you will buy back anyway, right?), whatever it takes, Crusade is off once you control it.