gameplay issues

[nokhor]

there was a rebellion in one of my provinces, and the rebels consisted only of 8 mangonels and 2 ballista. so obviously when the battle started, their crews just took off.

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indeed

[DrNo]

Target,Gil,ECS?

Seen a few people mentioning the high proportion of siege weapons popping up in a revolt.
I kinda think there should never be siege weapons in a revolting army, as the revolt is the attacking army isn't it like in STW?
Siege weapons would therefore be useless as they can't move (not sure on ballista's here)

The unit stats file has a column for revolts 'Rebelling Troop mixes this unit can belong to'. So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units.

Do you see any probs with doing so?

[DrNo]

Forgot to ask is there anywhere that dictates the number of units for the revolts and probability of a certain unit type beign involved compared to other units?
Is it possible for us to mod this ourselves?

I know it's proportional based on loyalty etc.. but the ability to make revolts easier or harder to deal with would be good.
In STW revolts were far too easy to deal with, and I kinda like the idea that some people have been really struggling with fighting revolting armies in MTW http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[DarknScaly]

I thought they'd fixed that...hmmm, obviously not ;-/

(seige weapons can be useful in attack though - the only thing is if the enemy deploy far back or move out of range they are then pretty useless. Having "some" in an army is handy - having "nothiing but" is a tad silly)

[tbh, for the patch, it would good if they could look at how the AI uses seige weaponry in attacks as well as this issue - can the AI not withdraw troops (such as seige engines) where they are out of range on an attack? though having said that it doesnt mean that they always stay out of range as the enemy may move into range.../em shrugs. All seige versus just 100 peasants = a loss for the rebels though. You just sit out of range and wait for timer to expire = a win for the peasants defending. Definately needs fixing]

[DrNo]

Rather than withdraw the troops it should move them away from the siege equip and use them as a melee unit, as they are better fighters than Peasents in 1 on 1.
Very good for flanking if that's all you have left to use.

[dancho]

It's the usual story-- a Siege Weapon Convention takes place (SIEGE CON XI AT THE TOLEDO HILTON). There's some drinking. Things get out of hand...

[eat cold steel]

> So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units
Yes it's as simple as that, but we didn't want to take them out completly, as the can be useful and adds colour to any army. The number in the bracket in troop mix is chances of that unit being avaliable to choose from. If the number is negative then it'll always be avalible to choose from (doesn't mean it'll get picked.) Once an list of 10 avaliable unit types are generated, an army is choosen at random from the list until the all the money is spent.

I'll add a cap in the code to limit the number of engines for the patch. If you really want to you can change the txt files yourselves but make sure you have a back-up, else you can't play multiplayer!

[DarknScaly]

Quote Originally posted by DrNo:
Rather than withdraw the troops it should move them away from the siege equip and use them as a melee unit, as they are better fighters than Peasents in 1 on 1.
Very good for flanking if that's all you have left to use.[/QUOTE]


Aye - i was thinking of my "favourite" issue where it has other units in reserve it "really should" use.

[Xiahou]

Well the real question for me is.. how do rebels get their hands on tons of seige equipment, when the vast majority of my provinces (including the ones where the revolt occurs) are still years from being able to build them? Really, how often are rebel forces more advanced than the forces they rebel against?

[the Count of Flanders]

Quote Originally posted by Xiahou:
Well the real question for me is.. how do rebels get their hands on tons of seige equipment, when the vast majority of my provinces (including the ones where the revolt occurs) are still years from being able to build them? Really, how often are rebel forces more advanced than the forces they rebel against?[/QUOTE]
Remember the Afghan rebels vs the USSR occupation troops. They all of the sudden had M-16's. surprise, surpise
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[JZ Temple]

Quote Originally posted by eat cold steel:
> So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units
Yes it's as simple as that, but we didn't want to take them out completly, as the can be useful and adds colour to any army. The number in the bracket in troop mix is chances of that unit being avaliable to choose from. If the number is negative then it'll always be avalible to choose from (doesn't mean it'll get picked.) Once an list of 10 avaliable unit types are generated, an army is choosen at random from the list until the all the money is spent.[/QUOTE]

Can someone identify the text editing steps that can used to fix this problem till the patch is released?

[DrNo]

Quote Originally posted by JZ Temple:
Can someone identify the text editing steps that can used to fix this problem till the patch is released? [/QUOTE]

crusaders_unit_prod11.txt is the file you need to mod, but as ECS says make a backup first!!!!

The following is based on file with demo as I don't have the game yet:

Open the file with Excel and goto column K, should have heading:
'Rebelling Troop mixes this unit can belong to'

It should all make sense once here from what ECS said. If you don't want any siege weapons in rebelling armies then simply remove all the info for each siege unit.

e.g. TrebuchetCrew has this:

CATH_LOYALISTS(3), CATH_REBELS(2), MUS_LOYALISTS(1), ORTH_LOYALISTS(1)

remove it and no trebuchets should be picked by rebelling armies.

I think the cap is definetely the best way to go, so that people who want siege units in revolts can have them but not have too many.

Thanks ECS for the info it helps explain how units are chosen for Crusades and Jihads too.

[DoJo MoJo I]

On Game Play issues; is there anyway to edit/alter the huge amount of Catholic Bishops coming down to the Almohad provinences to "convert", by 1192 I have at least 2-3 in each (really !!) I kill one and another is back next turn and in some provinces I`m at 20%+ Catholic ratings and moving up.

I have Border Forts in each province, I have Alims, don`t mater, every turn there there...I`ve offed 20+ and lost at least that many "Assassins, back they come...

Thw Assassins are as useful in stoping them as the Ninjas were in Shogun...( not much )

Same Prob with a new Game as Egypt..

This is really frustrating and no fun....

[Target]

if you don't want to assassinate the bishops, try building mosques in and around the troubled regions. Their religious influence should keep those of the bishops' in check.

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Quote MagyarKhans Cham:
i even suspect Target is coming here to hype things up.[/QUOTE]

[DoJo MoJo I]

Thanks for the help !! I`ll try that.

But the point is I _do_ want to kill them, however they "fly" up to Novograd( no kiding ) when I put an assassin on em...the result is I don`t kill most because I lose the Assassin up there, even with a 3 star assassin who just lasts 4 missions or so.

This is a Great Game that will be played for years, it will be a Classic without doubt IMO, but some fine tuning please http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks

[This message has been edited by DoJo MoJo I (edited 08-23-2002).]

[The Scourge]

Quote Originally posted by DoJo MoJo I:
Thanks for the help !! I`ll try that.

But the point is I _do_ want to kill them, however they "fly" up to Novograd( no kiding ) when I put an assassin on em...the result is I don`t kill most because I lose the Assassin up there, even with a 3 star assassin who just lasts 4 missions or so.

This is a Great Game that will be played for years, it will be a Classic without doubt IMO, but some fine tuning please http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks

[This message has been edited by DoJo MoJo I (edited 08-23-2002).][/QUOTE]

Yeah but you've got to see it in a realistic light.Bishops sitting in a bar getting pissed when one of the locals informs hom that all his bible bashings starting to piss a few of the wrong people off,and he's in serious danger of getting whacked.So the bishop thinks to himself"Bollocks to this,I'm off to Novograd for a while;let the heat die down a little."Or something.