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frogbeastegg
09-06-2007, 14:53
Froggy sticks a poster up on the wall by the front entrance to the Arena. It shows a picture of a gamer about to be buried by a teetering pile of unplayed games. In clear type the poster enquires of readers:

Do you have more games than time to play them?
Do you find it difficult to finish the games you begin?
Does the lure of the new and shiny always pull you away from the here and now?

Come to room 307 (formerly the lion’s den) in the Arena and meet other sufferers! Swap tips! Get support! Learn ways to deal with your problem! Cry on supportive shoulders!(*)

*Please note that crying on supportive shoulders is a metaphor. Anyone actually attempting to blub all over another patron will be escorted to the exit by our friendly security agents.

Froggy hurries away to make sure the slaves have got room 307 ready for use. It wouldn’t do to have traces of the lion incident remaining …





My name is frogbeastegg and I have a problem. I’ve got loads of unfinished games. Worse, I own loads of games I haven’t tried yet. There are more games I want to get. I’ve got thousands of hours worth of gameplay sat waiting for me.

Since the start of this year I have been trying to tackle this problem. I’m trying to reform. It’s been hard. It’s working, slowly. I’m seeing results, enjoying my gaming time more, and feeling less like an out of control amphibian pinwheel of a gamer. There’s still a long way to go.

I know I’m not alone in this here at the org (Xiahou! :gring:) so I thought it might be interesting to start a topic, see what people have to say.

To get things started here’s the things I’ve found to be helpful.

Play a small number of games at once!
Hopping around between a mass of games gets you nowhere, take it from a frog who played that way for years. Better to put 10 hours into one game than 1 hour into 10. Bluntly put this will get you completing games. The obvious reason for this is that you will progress further, faster. The less obvious reason is that because the experience is more concentrated you will often find yourself enjoying the game more, and won’t have problems with being unable to remember what you were doing or finding your skills have rusted.

I play 1 epic, 1 portable, and 1 other game at any one time.

Epic is any game which takes 40 or more hours to complete. Only one to be in progress at any time; playing more than one behemoth of a game is a bad idea. Working away at the same pair of titles for months gets boring.

Portable is any game on the DS, PSP, or GBA. Except in rare circumstances there should not be two portable games on the go at the same time; unless you begin to play these titles during ‘normal’ gaming time then you’ll find you get nowhere fast. These games tend to be played for short periods at random times, e.g. during the lunch break at work. When I do play a portable game at home it’s almost always a big, chunky game in its own right, and so needs a fair bit of time.

Other can be anything, but you should exercise sense. Typically my other is a shortish game, or a single campaign in one of those games which you can’t really finish (e.g Civ 4, TW). Unless you like to drown yourself in same, same, same you should pick a game which is different to your epic and portable. Some people can enjoy playing 3 different varieties of JRPGs. Most can’t, and certainly not me.

Adjust this to suit your needs. Maybe you don’t have a portable system, or maybe you’ll do better with only one game at once.

Aim to finish whatever game you start, but define ‘finish’ as something reasonable for yourself.
This applies heavily to some games but not at all to others. In a game with a lot of sidequests you could choose merely to follow the main plot from beginning to end and call that finished. Alternately you could go for 100% completion and only consider it finished then. Perhaps a balance between the two: you’ll only do the side quests you think sound like fun, leaving the annoying, tedious or overly difficult ones. You could play start to finish on one difficulty, or you could complete the game on every difficulty. You could get all the unlockables, some or none.

Be realistic. If you don’t want to spend hours trying to complete some mini game to unlock some extra don’t do it. Simple as that.

Ignore what other people say. If you consider a game done when you complete it on normal don’t let anyone tell you that you need to complete it on the hardest difficulty for it to count.

If it’s not fun then don’t play it!
If I’m really not enjoying a game, or it's lost its fun factor, and can’t see myself doing so then I will call it a day and shelve it. It’s done with, no longer an entry on the list of games to complete. There are many ways a game can cease to be enjoyable; in my experience it's rare for them to recover and go back to being good if they haven't picked back up after a couple of hours.

This includes getting stuck at a certain point and becoming completely fed up of trying again. If you’ve failed that boss battle 31 times and have come to loathe the game, the developers, the developer’s cat, and find the mere sight of the boss makes you want to snap the disc and grind the pieces into fine powder which you’ll pour down the throat of the person responsible for designing the battle then it’s better to walk away. It's not worth the misery.

Be realistic about your abilities.
Everyone knows that only n00bs play ‘Generic Action Game 27’ on normal! Real gamers play on suicidal! Except maybe you are rubbish at FPS and will get killed over and over on suicidal mode, meaning you make little progress and end up loathing the game.

Likewise if you’re an action game god then there’s no point in playing ‘Generic Action Game 27’ on normal – unless you want to complete it quickly. That too can be a valid way to play, and can be a boon in getting through several lesser titles in a short space of time. Not entirely recommended, as you'll probably be a bit bored.

I’m rubbish at FPS; I can’t dodge to save my life (har har). I can admit it. This does not harm my ego. I’m playing Bioshock on easy, and I’m probably the only person on the org doing so. The important thing is this: I’m enjoying myself when I play, and I’m making good progress. If I replay it in the future I may try normal and see how (badly) I do. But for now easy gives me enough trouble when I encounter a boss or Big Daddy.

Categorise titles.
This falls into two for me; you may want more or fewer categories.

1. Interest.
It is a simple truth that some games will appeal more than others. Identify those titles which you are most likely to enjoy, and those which will be fun but not great.

2. Time taken to complete.
Aim to know what you are getting into.

From there then you should try to play the factors off against each other. You can finish 4 10 hour games in the time it takes to finish a single 40 hour game. If there are 4 short games of high interest you might be better off playing them instead of a single big game of high interest. Then again, maybe that big game is so much more appealing than anything else that it deserves to become the focus of your play time.

Read games sites and forums in moderation.
I read this forum and a single gaming news site. I will occasionally venture into gamefaqs if I need something in particular. With very, very rare exceptions I do not read previews or interviews, watch trailers, or dabble my toes into the murky pool of hype. Why? Because I found I was spending more time reading about games than actually playing them. I found I was always looking at what would come next rather than playing what was here.

As a side effect I don’t often get let down by games. Quite the contrary, there’s a constant stream of nice surprises as completed games I didn’t know about land and are well received.

Prioritise your buying.
So two games you want are out at the same time? You know you can’t possibly play both right now, and you already have a mountain of ones to play. At this point you should look carefully at both games and see if they are definitely worth getting. For example, do you really need another quite-good-but-not-great game of a genre you already have a lot of? Especially if you still have some better entries in that genre waiting on your to-play pile?

Next you should consider how likely it is that both will be easily available in a few months. Big name games stay on the shelves for a lot longer than smaller titles, so it’s best to buy the smaller title now and pick up the big title later. Often you’ll be able to get the big title for a reduced price as a bonus for your patience.

Big to-play piles come about through bad buying. If you can get your buying under control then you’ll see your pile steadily decrease.

NB: I’m currently failing miserably at this. Gah! Too many cheap good games!

Make a list of your games collection.
I did this a couple of weeks ago for insurance purposes and it was most enlightening. I broke it down by platform to make life easier. Since the information was there, and I was curious, I tagged each game I’d finished or am done with. Games like Civilisation 4 I tagged as unfinishable. Counting these up then allowed me to calculate the percentage overall I’d completed in that category. I’d done far better than I thought in most categories, and that is very encouraging. At the same time I now have a better feel for how many games I have left to play, and that makes it harder to justify buying news ones to myself.

To give an example using my DS collection:
Nintendo DS

Final Fantasy III
Magical Starsign – finished
Etrian Odyssey
Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime – finished
Pokémon Pearl
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Blue
Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time – done with
Castlevania: Dawn of sorrow
Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales
Kirby: Canvas Curse – done with
Mario Vs Donkey Kong 2: March of the Minis
Lunar Knights
New Super Mario Bros.
Yoshi’s Island DS
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – finished
Phoenix Wright: Justice for All - finished
Another Code: Two Memories – finished
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Meteos – unfinishable
Meteos: Disney Magic – unfinishable
Puzzle League DS – unfinishable
Picross DS - unfinishable
Cooking Mama – done with
Trauma Centre: Under the Knife
Age of Empires DS
Advance Wars: Dual Strike
Anno 1701 - unfinishable

Total: 28 Completed: 8 (46%) Unfinishable: 5

Fragony
09-06-2007, 15:41
Well you could of course forward them to me. But as it seems you have with games what normal women have with clothes. Me, I have loads of to-play games as well (and clothes) :beam:

drone
09-06-2007, 16:31
I can't say I've gotten as far behind as you have on games, but I suppose I have had a similar experience: Warhammer.

Back in the days when I had spare time, no worries, and plenty of disposable income (in other words, my 20's), I became a Warhammer fan. First 40K, then FB. I also have a slight OCD condition, where I like to collect complete sets of things and oddities. Not a good combination, as eventually I had to take great lengths to prevent the EPA from declaring my apartment a lead-saturated Superfund site.

Now, the point of the Warhammer hobby is to paint up an army and play it. I enjoy the painting (probably more than the game itself, used to do models and artwork as a child), and I like to add lots of detail to even the rank and file. But there comes a point when one looks at the vast pile of bare metal, and despairs where to start. I reached that point, and from then on, I made the following rule: Not allowed to buy a new figure, until one of the same size gets painted. Definitely made it more manageable. The same rule can be applied to video games. :bow:

Mikeus Caesar
09-06-2007, 17:41
You're lucky you have so many games you need tog et round to playing - i have a very small income, and as a result have to be careful about what i choose to buy.

Oh, to be spoilt for choice...

frogbeastegg
09-06-2007, 18:25
But as it seems you have with games what normal women have with clothes.
I think you could be onto something there. Instead of clothes, shoes and handbags I've got books, games, and more books. Lol, at least I keep up with the books - mostly. When you read a couple of hundred titles a year and work in a bookshop it's inevitable your house resembles a library.


The same rule can be applied to video games. :bow:
Drastic! I admire your willpower.

Hmm. Might have to take the plunge on that since my current set up is failing miserably. Gah! It's going to be tough. I shall have to keep away from the sales and online shops; I refuse to pay anything like full price for most games, so when I see something like Valkyrie Profile 2, a game I've been hoping for a PAL release of for months, for £17.99 I'm useless. :sigh: That's another 40 hour game which will take me a month or two to get through.


You're lucky you have so many games you need tog et round to playing - i have a very small income, and as a result have to be careful about what i choose to buy.
Indeed. I worked my way out of the 'Gah! I have no money!' phase a couple of years ago, and those years have left their trace of me. I buy books and games now because one day I may be back to getting by on next to nothing. At least then I won't be back to struggling to afford the 90 pence library request fees; I've got my own library.

I'm presently in the 'too much money for my bills and savings, but not enough for the exorbitant house prices' phase. That's what I really want: a home of my own. Instead I end up with Final Fantasy XII because it was half price.

Noir
09-06-2007, 19:14
Originally posted by frogbeastegg
Lol, at least I keep up with the books - mostly. When you read a couple of hundred titles a year and work in a bookshop it's inevitable your house resembles a library.


I remember with horror the period of my life that i did the same thing as most books aren't worth the paper they are printed on IMO; eversince then i read few books many times rather than few times many books and have made the most like this out of my reading experiences, i feel.

Xiahou
09-06-2007, 20:20
Well, I guess I belong in here. :sweatdrop:

I recently started a wish list in Amazon to track games I'm interested, but don't own- there are a dozen games on it at the moment. I find it helpful to keep a list like that, because whenever the time comes to actually buy a new game I just refer to the list and pick one using similar criteria to yours.

I think I've made some headway, in that buying and playing/completing are keeping a pretty good pace with each other. The real challenge, though, is going to be wading into my backlog of already owned games and spending some time on them. I have a stack of games for the GameCube alone that deserve some attention. My first target for that will be Metroid Prime 1&2, so I can get 3- which is a game that I'm really looking forward to.

Ser Clegane
09-06-2007, 20:35
That all sounds acarily familiar :help:

There are currently way too many games lying on (and beneath) my desk that I did not even get close to finishing.
I better refrain from making a list here for the time being - that would probably make me feel even more bad.

To add insult to injury - there is a pile of unread books waiting right next to the unplayed games.

I think I should consider a one-year sabbatical to take care of this "problem"...

FesterShinetop
09-07-2007, 00:14
Yes, this all sounds very familiar... especially this part:


Does the lure of the new and shiny always pull you away from the here and now?

I also got a big pile of games I still need to finish... I'm gonna be bold and make a list:

Games I am actually playing at the moment... well... for the time being that is:
Hitman Bloodmoney
Jade Empire
Armed Assault

Games I was playing untill recently, but are still not finished (and thus replaced by the "newer" games above...:
Half Life 2: Episode 1
Fable
FEAR
Prey

On top of that there are the games you can't finish but that I still play on a regular basis:
Civilization 4
Red Orchestra
GTR2
Race
Flight Simulator 2004

And then finally there are the games that can't be finished, that I played a while but I really really need to get back into...:
Europa Universalis 3
X3 Reunion
Silent Hunter 4
Medieval 2: Total War

And this is only the games I have installed at the moment... :sweatdrop:

And I am allready planning on getting Bioshock when I get my new PC (which I hope is tomorrow). I am hopeless... :wall: :laugh4:

Though looking through my collection there luckily is also a lot of games I DID actually finish... so I guess not all hope is lost! Ah well, as long as you're having fun, right?

Martok
09-07-2007, 01:51
Heh. Yeah, this all sounds familiar, all right. ~:rolleyes:

Fortunately(?), my income is limited enough these days that I can't justify purchasing more than a few games a year anyway. This is maybe just as well, though, since I still have around a dozen or so PC titles that I have yet to play. :blush:

Csargo
09-07-2007, 03:14
I'm in curry's boat I can't buy that many games that I want. I don't have any games I haven't finished or played in my collection.

Marshal Murat
09-07-2007, 03:38
I have to say that I often read the summaries of the games on IGN, so that I'm not conned by the marketing ploys of several companies...

Zenicetus
09-07-2007, 07:05
I'm either fortunate (or cursed... cant' decide which) in liking only a few types of games... mainly non-scripted, open-ended strategy games like GalCiv2 and the TW series, and combat simulations like Silent Hunter 4. Good games of both types are rare as hen's teeth, so I have to milk them for as long as I can, between releases.

I'd love to have three new combat helicopter sims released at once, or a few games the quality of GalCiv2 released at once, and have to put a few on the back burner. But that isn't going to happen. Once in a while, if a really outstanding game is released outside my favored genres like Bioshock, I'll pick it up, but that's rare. I'm usually disappointed in FPS games, or even scripted "strategy" games like Company of Heroes... I just couldn't get into that one.

So, quit 'yer belly-aching and enjoy the surplus, if you like more types of games than I do. :beam:

frogbeastegg
09-07-2007, 11:35
I remember with horror the period of my life that i did the same thing as most books aren't worth the paper they are printed on IMO; eversince then i read few books many times rather than few times many books and have made the most like this out of my reading experiences, i feel.
I do a fair bit of research into most of the books I buy; read excerpts, reader's comments, that sort of thing. For the most part I like what I read. Since I dabble with writing even the horrific books are worth the time; they can be highly educational in what not to do.


The real challenge, though, is going to be wading into my backlog of already owned games and spending some time on them.
Agreed. This is the real problem for me. If you keep up with the more current releases the backlog never gets touched. If you concentrate on the backlog the new releases slip by. I try to balance them and that only means that I'm not making much progress on either.

It doesn't help that my backlog has a large number of very long games in it. Things like Dragon Quest VIII take me months to finish.

Banquo's Ghost
09-07-2007, 12:19
I know your pain, mylady. But I have discovered a three step solution to my addiction, and haven't suffered for many years now.

1. MTW/CivIV. Since I bought these two, no other game has attracted my attention past a cursory glance. I did buy M2TW, but lost interest once I'd looked at the pretties.

2. Apple Mac. Since I went over to Apple exclusively, there aren't any games for me to buy :stupido2: (More seriously, CIV plays natively and MTW can run under Parallels now. If I must, I can boot into Windows, but this gets to be a distraction and lessens the desire for games).

3. (and by far the most effective) Marriage. Like, who has time or finances left for gaming....?

Noir
09-07-2007, 13:13
Originally posted by Frogbeastegg
Since I dabble with writing even the horrific books are worth the time; they can be highly educational in what not to do.

Fair enough, however it sounds like a very linear point of view for a writer; i always thought that writers were better off knowing how to ride whatever it is they have in them in order to express it and not with taking directions as to what and what not to do.

macsen rufus
09-07-2007, 15:26
My solution is very similar to BG's:


I know your pain, mylady. But I have discovered a three step solution to my addiction, and haven't suffered for many years now.

1. MTW/CivIV. Since I bought these two, no other game has attracted my attention past a cursory glance. I did buy M2TW, but lost interest once I'd looked at the pretties.

2. Apple Mac. Since I went over to Apple exclusively, there aren't any games for me to buy (More seriously, CIV plays natively and MTW can run under Parallels now. If I must, I can boot into Windows, but this gets to be a distraction and lessens the desire for games).

3. (and by far the most effective) Marriage. Like, who has time or finances left for gaming....?
Today 11:35


... with variations:

1) - except for CIV :laugh4: If you fancy a change, there's always mods...
2) - never again! Though Windows is bad, Macs just irritate the living daylights out of me. If I changed, it would be to Linux, with similar results on the game front.
3) - less said the better ~D

But honestly, unless I quit my job to spend more time with my PC, I'll never have enopugh spare time to exhaust MTW and all the mods I have. I've managed to buy only one new game in the last three years, which was RTW + BI, and that is now gathering dust. My next one will be when the Lordz release their commercial game.

doc_bean
09-07-2007, 16:36
I have a similar problem but due to the fact that i live about half the time at home and half the time at my girlfriends, i never seem to have the games I want to play at hand, so it takes forever to finish anything !

I also bought ten PS2 games in 6 months time (and a couple of DS/GBA ones too). I've finished 1 so far.

Taurus
09-08-2007, 08:42
This (as others have said) is all too familiar, I think to the majority of use here at the org. Shiny and new always seems to get the better of me thus creating a mass collection of games that have barely even seen the wrong side of "what the hell do I do next on this damn level?", or even "this game is awesome!" etc. etc.
However I recently re-formatted my PC and at the moment I only have 3 games installed, each of which falls into similar categories as youself. I don't own a portable gaming device (I don't want to either but that's beside the point) but the three games I have installed at the moment are...

Oblivion
This is my main game which I only bought recently and I decided to start off fresh when I re-formatted (this is another gaming symptom I suffer from btw, I just delete savegames purposly just to start again fro no apparant reason :dizzy2:) anyway, so this will probably take me the best part of quite a while to complete.

Pro Evolution Soccer 6
This is an unfinishable game of course because the master league mode which I play the most is endless. I just play about five matches of my master league when I end my session of Oblivion.

Counter-Strike Source
Although it's installed I don't play it very often anymore as to me it's starting to run out of steam (please ignore the pun :smash:) so I only really play this when I have ended my Oblivion session and I can take no more of Pro Evo (which is very rare).

I may take another look at the collection again in the near future and decide on another game I want to re-install which means I will have to control myself from going out and buying another cheap yet amazing game.

:help:

frogbeastegg
09-08-2007, 10:55
3. (and by far the most effective) Marriage. Like, who has time or finances left for gaming....?
Since I got my Wii my boyfriend has started to play games. He's got a bit of a Super Stardust HD addiction at present. The unchivalrous menace beat my high score, and has become far better than I at the game ~:mecry:


Fair enough, however it sounds like a very linear point of view for a writer; i always thought that writers were better off knowing how to ride whatever it is they have in them in order to express it and not with taking directions as to what and what not to do.
In terms of character, plot and world, yes, you're quite right. In terms of technique seeing what others do is very helpful, especially for entirely self-taught writers like myself. Unless you set out to consciously copy another's style, or read very narrowly, you still find your own voice.


I have this problem!
We should start Gamers Anonymous. It'd be fun. Until we worked out that the time spent sitting in a circle and telling sob stories could be spent tackling our to-play piles :gring:



Rogue Galaxy came out yesterday. I've been waiting for the PAL version since February. Resistance is not easy. :help:

doc_bean
09-08-2007, 15:16
I bought another game today :shame:

Okami for 20€, how could I resist ?

Mount Suribachi
09-08-2007, 15:59
3. (and by far the most effective) Marriage. Like, who has time or finances left for gaming....?

You forgot

3a. Children. Especially toddlers who are at home all day when you are on your rest days and aren't old enough to play by themselves or be at school.

3b. Wives who work from home. Who, the instant the little 'un is at toddler group or in bed, fire up the PC and start working. Leaving *me* to do the washing up etc :whip:

I think I've played games on the PC a grand total of 4 times this year (2 x MTW2, 2 x RTRPE). There's still the Xbox I suppose (note the absence of the numbers 3, 6 and 0 from that statement) :wall:

Tratorix
09-08-2007, 22:43
I too have a problem. :shame:

But it's not really my fault! With the new generation of games consoles out, there are so many good x-box and ps2 games out there for virtually nothing! Not only do I not finish the games, but this is also draining the money I had been saving(gotta buy a 360 before Mass Effect comes out!!!). I keep buying ps2 games and then putting them away once I get frustrated(which happens quick). :help: :help: (Runs off to the store because theres a copy of God of War for 15$.)

Fragony
09-09-2007, 14:44
I bought another game today :shame:

Okami for 20€, how could I resist ?

Way to go! Okami>Twilight Princess. And this comes from a huge Zelda fan.

Forward Observer
09-09-2007, 15:59
Space sims and space games make up my biggest pile of unplayed and unfinished games. When I started out in PC gaming I was really into combat flight sims, so space sims just always seemed like they would be appealing.

The problem is that that with the exception of only a few such sims that try to replicate Newtonian physics, the feeling of flying is non-existent, so most feel like sit and spin arcade shooting games.

So currently setting on the shelf, and never finished, I have

Freespace 1
Freespace 2 (I have finished the first half of the missions at least twice)
Tachyon
Starlancer (same thing as FS2, I get about half way through and loose interest)
Starwars X-Wing Alliance
Independence War II
Bang Gunship Elite
X2, The Threat (never started)
X3, Reunion
Aquanox 1 (just an underwater space sim)
Aquanox 2
Starwars Starfighter
Homeworld 2 (space RTS) (still sealed in the plastic wrap)
Startrek Klingon Academy
Echelon 2--Wind Warriors

I also have Homeworld 1, Echelon 1, and Freelancer, but they are the only ones I have ever finished.

Some of these games I bought new and some I picked in bargain bins over the years, but it still represents $200 to $400 worth of plastic disks---which is a pretty expensive beer coaster collection. The sad thing is that I probably have another even bigger list of games that are spread across all genres

Ah, the joys of PC gaming as a hobby!:dizzy2:

Out
09-09-2007, 16:24
I seem to have the opposite problem of you folks. I buy an average amount of games, I'd say, but I am so ridiculously completionistic [not a real word, but I liked it] that I *need* to finish each game I pick up.

This is usually a good thing, unless it's the game is absolutely horrid, but even then, I must finish!

So, how about I donate some of my nature to one of you, and one of you can donate your ability to give up games that just aren't fun? :idea2:

Bijo
09-09-2007, 18:42
I don't have this problem about having bought too many games. Actually, I have many pirated versions :P (so having to play many is still there though).

No, I'm just kidding. I steal the originals directly from stores :laugh4:

Now, time to not be serious...
I barely have any games (and hardly play any new ones) due to the simple reason I have lost trust in developers' abilities to actually create good games for the PC. New games (or generally games I don't know that are perhaps older but new at the time) hardly attract my attention, though sometimes I anticipate a nice one now and then.

It is only specific titles such as Crysis, Far Cry 2, World in Conflict, that attract my attention regarding games, the ones I am certain of that will be grand, and now Bioshock has been added to the list. Unfortunately I will not purchase it due to the fact it has SecuROM and I will also not likely purchase WiC due to the same reason. I do not even care if they will provide a removal patch in the future.

All these (futile) security measures they take discourage me from even getting games infested with them. Starforce, SecuROM, ...is dey rilly that stoopid too kontinue dose tings if dey is nowing dat stuff fiootile? I R not byeing. Maybe there are other reasons even if they know it's futile, but I don't know. Someone argued and speculated it is due to "insurance" reasons. In any case, it is not a surprise many of those gaming people, especially the ones proficient in general computer use, will turn to piracy unless it regards multiplayer. Well, whaddaya know... WiC is all about multiplayer.

But I guess this story has become already too long, so I will cease it now.

Noir
09-10-2007, 03:18
Apologies for the long OT post - feel free to remove if necessary:


Originally posted by frogbeastegg
"In terms of character, plot and world, yes, you're quite right. In terms of technique seeing what others do is very helpful, especially for entirely self-taught writers like myself. Unless you set out to consciously copy another's style, or read very narrowly, you still find your own voice.
"

Most of the now classic writers introduced "unconventional" techniques from the linguistic and the structure point of view that the establishment reckognised (too late most of the time unfortunately) as the sign of genuine work in their writings after having denied and slandered it. Most of them (if not all) were self taught or became so.

Some examples; i am sure you know much more than me:

-Charles Bukowski (his "simplistic" "street" language earned him avoidance and denial from the "serious" litterary circles that is carried on to this day)

-Herman Melville (Moby Dick "failed" miserably as most critics bypassed the multidimensional tragedy and the weaved allegories that lurked in the howlings of the working class outcasts, featured in the book - American critics were exceptionally slow to catch up with it as with most other trully worthwhile american works)

-Edgar Allan Poe ("inventor" of short story styles that dominated the 20th century; he is credited with the first detective story and the first clear and almost unmatched specimens of horror that Hollywood and the likes of Stephen King would embrace decades later - predictably his finess and mastery in character psychology through his use of language earned him bunkruptcy, social despise and almost lunacy)

-J D Salinger (his "insistance" with the Glass family gave out "Franny and Zooey" as his timeless masterpiece, that predictably was shot dead by critics of his day no less due to its unpretentious lectical structures that made every little feeling, every little thought of the characters felt in an almost visual way without crudly underlining it as most play and screenwriters do)

I am not saying that experiencing techniques is useless, i am saying that:

a) Nobody ever cooked better because he was eating many dishes

b) The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow

No matter what the establishment (colleges & editing houses ) say, there are as many worthwhile techniques and styles as there are people - finding "one's voice" and purifying it from the accumulated collective subconscious opinions that suggest "how it should sound like" is task number one IMO and not as easy as it sounds to achieve in my experience.

A surrealist master reffered to the process as "i (re-)taught my self how to paint as when i was a child".

All the best

Noir

Papewaio
09-10-2007, 04:19
You forgot

3a. Children. Especially toddlers who are at home all day when you are on your rest days and aren't old enough to play by themselves or be at school.

3b. Wives who work from home. Who, the instant the little 'un is at toddler group or in bed, fire up the PC and start working. Leaving *me* to do the washing up etc :whip:

I think I've played games on the PC a grand total of 4 times this year (2 x MTW2, 2 x RTRPE). There's still the Xbox I suppose (note the absence of the numbers 3, 6 and 0 from that statement) :wall:

Sounds like a slice of my life, the only time I get to play is going to the inlaws... the brother in law has 360, PS2, gamecube, PSP etc and loads of games... and I'm a very happy to co-op with him... just need more multiplayer games for consoles... they are great to jump in and out of.

And the toddler... he's 2 years and 1 month, already knows how to turn on the PC, open the DVD drive, load his disk and click on which title he wants... Doraemon!

macsen rufus
09-10-2007, 13:13
And the toddler... he's 2 years and 1 month, already knows how to turn on the PC, open the DVD drive, load his disk and click on which title he wants... Doraemon!


Ah, kids these days grow up so fast. Time was when all a toddler wanted to put into a CD drive was his toast and marmalade :laugh4:

frogbeastegg
09-10-2007, 18:55
Noir: (spoiler tagged to keep it out of the way for those who aren't interested)
Nobody ever cooked better because he was eating many dishes
Possibly, possibly not. A person eating many dishes would experience many new tastes and foods. They'd learn what ingredients go together and which do not. They'd gain ideas for things to try (lamb and apricots!? Never have thought of that in a million years ...), and - if they have a passion for cooking - plenty of recipies to try out, tinker with and refine into something of their own. Seeing what other people do only spurs on the passionate cook to push themself further.


finding "one's voice" and purifying it from the accumulated collective subconscious opinions that suggest "how it should sound like" is task number one IMO and not as easy as it sounds to achieve in my experience.
That goes to illustrate how personal something like writing is. I always had my own voice, right from the very beginning. What I didn't have was the technical ability to express it. I'm entirely self-taught; all I've ever done is read, read, read, followed later on by writing and reading in equal (excessive) proportions. My voice is recognisable as the one I was using four years ago when I first began to tinker with fiction; the difference is that now I have the technical ability to say what I was attempting to back then.

If you want to discuss this further I'd suggest starting a fresh topic in the Mead Hall (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=37). Could be interesting.



Still not brought Rogue Galaxy :balloon:

Martok
09-12-2007, 01:15
I'm either fortunate (or cursed... cant' decide which) in liking only a few types of games... mainly non-scripted, open-ended strategy games like GalCiv2 and the TW series, and combat simulations like Silent Hunter 4. Good games of both types are rare as hen's teeth, so I have to milk them for as long as I can, between releases.
Ditto that. I mostly play only epic-level strategy games with open-ended campaigns (of which Total War and GalCiv2 are good examples), along with the occasional RPG such as NWN and KOTOR. I find that quality titles in these two genres are fairly rare, however, especially when you factor in that I only have a PC -- I don't own a console.

Garnier
09-13-2007, 02:06
Im in a very different situation.

I have some good games, but I get bored of them. I am quite thrifty, rarely spend my money on anything. In fact this year I've spent less than $100, though I'm not poor at all.

I can't bring myself to buy games that I might enjoy, I have to be quite sure of them before I buy. As a consequence I have a very small collection of very fun games, but I just get tired of them eventually. :gah: