The Rugby Union World Cup 2007

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm surprised that a thread for discussing the most important football tournament of the year (~;p )hasn't popped up already, so here it is.

Here's a link to the schedule for France 2007 (http://sport.independent.co.uk/rugby_union/world_cup_features/article2932224.ece). Here's a run-down of the teams (http://sport.independent.co.uk/rugby_union/world_cup_features/article2937136.ece). There's some tough group games and a lot more possibility for upsets at this stage than previously.

My head tells me that this is the All-Black's moment to finally shine as they deserve in a World Cup. They have an awesome team and frankly the Webb Ellis trophy shouldn't have any other names engraved on it - but somehow, they keep coming up short.

And there's where the heart comes in. It just feels right to believe that France will win at home. It's their best team for a very long time. They are disciplined (well, as much as any French team can be, and stay French) and they have rare desire. I beleive we will see some incredible rugby from them, and well as some of the grind needed to be champions.

The current champions, England, are likely to end up as a joke. In common with most English teams that win something, they have spent the intervening four years resting on their laurels instead of building for another win. They are old, broken and possibily formidable because of that. But they won't beat wither of the flair teams, IMO.

What of Ireland? Well, I'd like to believe we will make it to the semis. We have the talent - on a really good day, the talent to go to the final in fact. I suspect we will frighten, but not beat, the French in the group, and then we'll have to see.

It looks like the most competitive World Cup in years - tonight's kick-off may porduce the biggest upset to start with as the Pumas go for the French. I can't wait. :beam:

(Oh and the USA are participating, so no excuses for our trans-Atlantic friends to avoid the thread... :wink:)

[Subedei]

I watched 2 documentaries on rugby this week: one on the leagues in France/Ireland/Urugay and the other about the Samoan team this year. Everything very interesting. So, since Tuesday I am a rugby fan....So I will watch the game tonight!

My favourit teams are Tonga & Samoa. Well, always with the underdogs!:playingball:

[Banquo's Ghost]

My favoutrit teams are Tonga & Samoa. Well, always with the underdogs!:playingball:

Just watch those guys tackle. They rattle one's fillings even over the TV.

[Quid]

I have been waiting for this moment for...well four years, really. I could not stand the sight of Mr Wilkinson getting that drop goal late in the game.

I think BG hit the nail on the head. The All-Blacks definitely deserve to win the trophy the second time. They have been, for the most part of the last 15 to 20 years, the team with the most flair and most exciting rugby.

I would also have to agree about the French. I think they are, on avarage, the most watchable in Europe (by a long shot) and presumably the strongest European team. Good luck to them. They are a little bit like the Germans in football...

The Irish have an outstanding team and if they get their act together, they have a good chance to come far in the tournament. Unfortunately, they also often fall short on expectations because of injuries. They simply do not have the depth of other teams and when the first choice falls short on fitness, they often fail to be able to deliver an equally strong player.

I would like to see the Scots do well also. However, they also have the problem of the Irish and Welsh, for that matter.

As long as England does not do well, I am quite happy, to be honest. Don't ask me why...it's just one of those things...If not the Germans, then it's the English...

Quid

[Banquo's Ghost]

It's very well worth keeping an eye on the Springboks and Wallabies too. Australia are likely to meet the All-Blacks in the semis, and traditionally they have taken great delight in popping their bubble for them.

The 'Boks look very strong too - it will be interesting to see if they follow through and demolish England in the group stages.

[Yawning Angel]

Woohoo proper World Cup time again! :2thumbsup:

Still have fond memories of the 2003 final, up early off to the bar to watch it, started on stupidly strong lager for 8am, agonising extra time, finally winning and being banjaxed (sp?) before midday \o/. The attempt at 10-pin bowling just after this was . . . interesting.

Would like to be all patriotic and say England are going to win, but think its a stretch too far (semi's is probably the best we can hope for). I agree with the others and think that the All Blacks deserve to/should win it, but they have had a habit of peaking between World Cups and not bringing the goods in the competition itself (excepting the first one obviously).
South Africa and France are the other stand-out form teams atm, and with the French having home field advantage they have got to be a force to be reckoned with. Ireland should be the best bet for a home-nations shot, although I can't quite see them getting past the 3 mentioned above.

Here's to 6/7 weeks of good competition and decent stuff to watch on TV while lying on the sofa recovering from injuries sustained while actually playing the damn game on Saturday afternoon! And its on terrestrial TV :yes:

[Quid]

Here's to 6/7 weeks of good competition and decent stuff to watch on TV while lying on the sofa recovering from injuries sustained while actually playing the damn game on Saturday afternoon!

...and brag about it to whoever will listen...brilliant!

Quid

[monkian]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaales ! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaales !

~:cheers:

[Yawning Angel]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaales ! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaales !

~:cheers:

* great fishes are Whales,
they swim in the sea,
eat plankton for tea,
* great fishes are Whales

~:cheers:

* insert front room friendly word here (rugby songs are hard to transcribe for here)

[monkian]

*insert chariot in front room friendly place :2thumbsup:

[Yawning Angel]

Touche

:duel: :laugh4:

[monkian]

Heh, lets just hope one ofour teams does well.

Untill we meet that is, and then the kids gloves are off :beam:

[drone]

(Oh and the USA are participating, so no excuses for our trans-Atlantic friends to avoid the thread... :wink:)
At least until the 30th. England and South Africa in the group? Ouch. Have fun in France guys, don't drink too much before the games. :medievalcheers:


15th in the IRB rankings? There must be a significant dropoff after the usual suspects.

[Meneldil]

Allez les Bleus !

[scotchedpommes]

Catalogue of errors from France. I know it was poor play from them, but I do
enjoy seeing breakaways like that.

[ShadesPanther]

France have definately been playing very badly. But, Argentina are a very good team and do deserve to be in the 6 Nation or the Tri-Nations.
France really do need the opposition to stay back and let them play because if you get in their faces they make lots of stupid errors.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Wow! Big upset as Argentina beat France 17-12.

The Pumas played superbly and France - well, I'm glad to see they suffer from their own version of the Croke Choke!

Turning point of the match had to be the goal line defence by Argentina as France broke strongly after half-time. That and the fact that Skrela missed some very important kicks whilst his team-mates seemed to have idea that the game consists of passing to the fellows in hooped shirts.

Can a Frenchman tell me what on earth Heymans was doing on the field as full-back instead of Poitrenaud? He had a nightmare of a game.

Now I have to hope two things. a) That was Argentina's game of the tournament, and therefore they won't turn Ireland over in the same way; b) France will play as badly against us as they did today. Putting them out of their own World Cup will be a slight revenge for them taking our Grand Slam away. ~;p

[Boyar Son]

Wait so this is soccer or that other version of American football???

[Papewaio]

Although Tri-nations is a nice punArgentian should play in the southern comp... and make it the quad nations...


Born in Fiji to a Welsh mum and a Kiwi dad with ancestors from all the nations of the UK and France, grew up in NZ and live in Aus... so which team will I choose...I'm pretty set here... All Blacks... but my favourite underdog is the Japanese. :bow: they keep on fighting to the end.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Wait so this is soccer or that other version of American football???
It is likely that American Football actually evolved from rugby, which brings me to two points:

1) American Football is a version of rugby, not the other way around.
2) Evolution is not always for the better.


Hardcore rugby fans get can passionate on the subject, if you haven't noticed. I only wish Germany's rugby team qualifies next time around.

[Boyar Son]

It is likely that American Football actually evolved from rugby, which brings me to two points:

1) American Football is a version of rugby, not the other way around.
2) Evolution is not always for the better.


Hardcore rugby fans get can passionate on the subject, if you haven't noticed. I only wish Germany's rugby team qualifies next time around.

Well I deny that likelyness ~D

So is this sport as popular as euro fooball?

[Duke of Gloucester]

It is likely that American Football actually evolved from rugby, which brings me to two points:

1) American Football is a version of rugby, not the other way around.
2) Evolution is not always for the better.


Hardcore rugby fans get can passionate on the subject, if you haven't noticed. I only wish Germany's rugby team qualifies next time around.

I think this is a similar misconception to the "we are descended from apes" one. More correctly, just like us and the apes, rugby and American football have a common ancestor.

[Banquo's Ghost]

:wall: Could I make a heartfelt plea that we NOT derail this thread into a "my code is better than your code" discussion.

There's lots to enjoy about the rugby - if anyone really feels the need to be beastly to one another about their favourite sports, make a thread in the Backroom.

Thank you. :bow:

____________________

So, are the French teetering on the edge? They now have to beat Ireland in Paris on the 21st. Perhaps foolishly, I'm getting excited about the prospect of winning that game - not because I want to see France out but because we now have a glimmer of hope that by beating both the Pumas and Les Bleus, we will head the group and avoid New Zealand in the quarters.

Am I deluding myself?

And talking of the All-Blacks, does anyone think the Italy game today is likely to provide another upset?

(Oh, and as a good Irishman, in the long tradition of the Six Nations rivalries: GO USA!) :beam:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

:wall: Could I make a heartfelt plea that we NOT derail this thread into a "my code is better than your code" discussion.

There's lots to enjoy about the rugby - if anyone really feels the need to be beastly to one another about their favourite sports, make a thread in the Backroom.

Thank you. :bow:

:bow:

Of course, my apologies.

[ShadesPanther]

(Oh, and as a good Irishman, in the long tradition of the Six Nations rivalries: GO USA!) :beam:

Yeah, doubt it will happen though.
Will just have to rely on Isreal in the football later. (would be great if they lost both though :laugh4: )

[Caius]

I'm not a VERY fan of Los Pumas, and I lost the oportunity of seeing them on TV! :shame:

[Strike For The South]

Go cowboys

Any sport where you get to play in the mud looks like fun. I need to learn how to play rugby

[william the bastard]

Wow! Big upset as Argentina beat France 17-12.

Can a Frenchman tell me what on earth Heymans was doing on the field as full-back instead of Poitrenaud? He had a nightmare of a game.

~;p

No, sorry , I turn it into my mind and stil not find a good reason:no: :book:
Anyway, we can blame all the team, it was really stereotyped from France compared to All blacks, Australia and England wich I watched this afternoon.
The way France play is scaring me for the tournament, really hope our cavalry will be back!

Gah, At least, will be at stadium for Tonga - Boks. hope a decent blood bath:laugh4: :laugh4:

[ShadesPanther]

England were very unconvincing today.
Their 28-10 win really flattered them. USA played well but it was really just a poor England team.

If I was them I would be seriously worried after New Zealand and Australia (91-3) rolled over their opponents.

[naut]

Jesus, 91 - 3! Thought it was the Rugby world cup I'd tuned into, never expected to see a game of cricket.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If I was them I would be seriously worried after New Zealand and Australia (91-3) rolled over their opponents.

Well, it was the Aussies vs. Japan. 91-3 is still a massive amount, but I wasn't exactly expecting a lot less. Maybe in the 80s somewhere...

Looking at the pools, how do people think Canada'll do? There's no way they can beat Australia, but maybe they can do second or third in the pool, with some luck.

[naut]

Prediction: All Blacks will win for sure. they'll play against Australia in the Semi-Finals and win, and then play against South Africa in the Finals (due to the way the competition is set out).

[ShadesPanther]

Prediction: All Blacks will win for sure. they'll play against Australia in the Semi-Finals and win, and then play against South Africa in the Finals (due to the way the competition is set out).

I think it will be NZ vs South Africa in the final.

Although South Africa do look really good so i'm not sure who will win. (Plus the All Blacks are sorta jinxed they've only won it once)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Looking at the pools, how do people think Canada'll do? There's no way they can beat Australia, but maybe they can do second or third in the pool, with some luck.

Alright, Canada just lost to Wales. While the score was reasonable, I was still a little disappointed by Canada in parts of the second half. They seemed just a little too slow, especially on the rucks, which allowed Wales to get the ball and clear it a safe distance. Canada was so close to the try line so many times, but they let it slip away because of lack of speed.

[Lorenzo_H]

My bet has already gone to SA vs NZ in the finals.

[Soulforged]

I always watch the Pumas because they're that unique group of national players, those who really feel they're playing for more than personal glory. Besides you can't have more balls and guts than a rugby player and they show it everyday.

I saw one of our guys stop this french player, Milloud, I believe. And I was truly amazed at how much punishment they can endure. This french guy seemed like a massive normand warrior of medieval times, the scary type, with the weird bear and the mean face and topping above everybodies head like a black tower, I really wouldn't want him walking on my yard. But our guys took him up front without hesitation, that's how much balls you need to play that sport.

P.S.: It seems that rugby is the sport to watch if you want to see acting and pretension.:laugh4:

[Xehh II]

Go All Blacks!

[Justiciar]

Methinks Shades Panther and Lorenzo will be proven right. SA vs NZ. Most definately.

Who else was impressed with Portugal's team of podgy civilians? :2thumbsup:

[Caius]

Who will be discualificated at this time?

Place your bets!

[Papewaio]

Alright, Canada just lost to Wales. While the score was reasonable, I was still a little disappointed by Canada in parts of the second half. They seemed just a little too slow, especially on the rucks, which allowed Wales to get the ball and clear it a safe distance. Canada was so close to the try line so many times, but they let it slip away because of lack of speed.

Wales is a very good side and still might be this tournaments darkhorse contender... Canada actually scored more then I predicted, and played very well indeed.

[El Diablo]

As an out and out All Blacks fan (you get your passport taken away here if you support anyone else) I was happy with the win over Italy although I thought the Aussie 2nd half against Japan was more impressive.

But I am actually concerned about the safety of the Portugese team.

Particularly the scrum where you can sustain a serious neck injury if you are outclassed. I don't find that appealling at all.

Although having coached a team over here and seen all the safety stuff that goes in I hope the AB's will go easy on them.

I remember a few years ago the All Blacks were playing Aussie and the scrum screwed and the Aussie Prop called out "neck" and the All Black prop Kees Meews stopped pushing so as to save the guy. The Aussie thanked him after the game and stated that he saved him from possible paralysation.

That always struck me as great sportsmanship.

[ShadesPanther]

Wales is a very good side and still might be this tournaments darkhorse contender.

Wales has some very good players but, they tend to play badly as a team. They could certainly go quite far if they click but I highly doubt they will win it.

[monkian]

Alright, Canada just lost to Wales. While the score was reasonable, I was still a little disappointed by Canada in parts of the second half. They seemed just a little too slow, especially on the rucks, which allowed Wales to get the ball and clear it a safe distance. Canada was so close to the try line so many times, but they let it slip away because of lack of speed.

Although Canada played well for a semi pro team I think Canada lacked the fitness to carry on as well in the 2nd half - plus we brought 3 of our best fresh players. And its lucky we did bring them on as it wasn't looking great for us.


Wales has some very good players but, they tend to play badly as a team. They could certainly go quite far if they click but I highly doubt they will win it.

Unfortunately I completely agree.

When we click, Welsh rugby is some of the best in the world. Unfortunately there seems to be a distinct lack of clickage sinse 2005.

I'm under no illusions that we may win the whole thing, I jusy want us to play well - and beat England ; )

And don't get me started on our coach...

[Yawning Angel]

England were very unconvincing today.
Their 28-10 win really flattered them. USA played well but it was really just a poor England team.

If I was them I would be seriously worried after New Zealand and Australia (91-3) rolled over their opponents.

Ahhh, so same old England. No clue or cutting edge in attack and all in all a very lacklustre performance. Compared to the excitement of Fridays France vs Argentina game, watching this was :wall:

We are so going to get thumped by South Africa (and possibly Samoa as well) unless we start playing better :help:

[Quid]

Anybody else think Stuart Barnes should be shot (not in the literal sense). I don't know what it is about him but his commentating is annoying to no ends. A real pity ITV had to get the rights for the World Cup. I might just have to watch the whole thing on mute...

Quid

[Lorenzo_H]

Looks like the England skipper Vickery is going to get banned for the SA match.

I predict SA are going to rout England.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Well, after the opening cycle I think we can be certain the Northern hemisphere teams (save Scotland) are suffering badly from jet-lag whilst the Southern teams being much closer to home are fresh and feisty.

Oh that's right, this is in France. :dizzy2: Then the whole bunch of them must be on prescription drugs - especially Ireland - because otherwise the only explanation for such a parade of woefulness would be that they are not motivated for the first game of the World Cup?

Perhaps the dire warnings about mismatches forced Eddie Sullivan (a man of rare mercy and tenderness as should be obvious) to replace the hand chalk with Kerrygold butter as a handicap to the brave boys of the four provinces? Perhaps the tight lycra shirts now fashionable cut off the circulation to the arms and brain? Perhaps the inability to deal with simple kick-offs, a new tactic proven so effective against France in the Six Nations, is a subtle psychological double-bluff to confuse the Pumas by promising them constant possession on the Irish try line?

Ah well, at least when we don't get out of the groups, I'll be able to relax and watch the greatness of teams like South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. You know, teams that actually care about the jersey they pull on and players that give of their all, in every representative match - thus according their opponents due respect and scant chance.

:embarassed:

*and breathe*

Regardless, high praise should go to the USA, Canada and Namibia for some wonderful, competitive rugby and great heart. Whilst their opponents may have been woefully under-motivated, these teams really showed pride and some impressive levels of skill, and all three deserved to inflict an upset. :bow:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Gah!

I return from holiday, and before the World Cup has even started properly it has already turned into a 'Tri-Nations plus' competition. :shame:

My money's still on the All-Blacks, now closely followed by the Aussies and the Springboks.

I didn't watch it, but I hear France were horrendous. What were they even thinking? Good for the Pumas though. They really should be allowed into a decent annual competition.

Oh, and 91-3 is just obscene... :inquisitive:

[Yawning Angel]

Oh, and 91-3 is just obscene... :inquisitive:

What about what the All Blacks are going to do to Romania or Portugal, it's likely to be a score that would beat the English 1-day cricket team :dizzy2:

Oh and I agree with Quid, Stuart Barnes should be first up against the wall :hmg:

The whole ITV coverage sucks! What kind of idiot broadcaster makes you endure the tedious anthems then cuts to a commercial break ensuring the kick-off is missed :inquisitive: Wish they just gave these things to the BBC who do sports coverage sooo much better. (And as a plus we'd have Brian Moore instead of Stuart Barnes :yes: )

[Soulforged]

I saw one of our guys stop this french player, Milloud, I believe. And I was truly amazed at how much punishment they can endure. This french guy seemed like a massive normand warrior of medieval times, the scary type, with the weird bear and the mean face and topping above everybodies head like a black tower, I really wouldn't want him walking on my yard. But our guys took him up front without hesitation, that's how much balls you need to play that sport.

Correction the player is Chabal.

[El Diablo]

Chabal is awesome. That is one player that I would not like to face.

It was awesome to see him and Jerry Collins go head to head in my home town earlier on in the year. Although it was a "France C" team he was pretty intense and he broke Ali Williams jaw by running into him. Ouch!!

But Burger out for 4 weeks? That will hurt the Saffas!!

Ohh - go Argentina!!! I want to see them beat Ireland so that the French and the Irish have to fight it out for the other place in the quarter finals.

(You have to support the underdog)

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ohh - go Argentina!!! I want to see them beat Ireland so that the French and the Irish have to fight it out for the other place in the quarter finals.

(You have to support the underdog)

The problem with that scenario is that Ireland face France first. The Ireland-Argentina game may well be about who plays the All-Blacks in the quarter.

The Pumas stuttered badly against a fired up Georgia last night. The France game clearly took a lot out of them and they nearly dropped the bonus point - which in a tight group would have been disastrous. I shall hope that they have shot their bolt :bounce: .

[Soulforged]

(You have to support the underdog)
Well I don't think we're underdogs considering all the teams in the tournament. We're underdogs compared to New Zeland, Australia, South Africa and England, and we'll probably be beaten if we face New Zeland...

[El Diablo]

My humblest appologies. I did not mean that Argentina were underdog's against all teams in the competition just some. I more meant that in most games you watch it is usually one team that is favoured. Sometimes this "advantage" is more than others, what I was meaning was that against France and Ireland that Argentina would probably be the underdog - not that it meant much when they took on France!

In our picks at work I had Argentina to beat Ireland (but not France :oops: )

But in the last few games the supposed "minnows" are putting up some serious fight.

Georgia, Romania, and Canada have most definatly not disgraced themselves.

I do enjoy the way that in a game with big (huge!) guys that are fast a team with heart and desire can compete.

[Soulforged]

My humblest appologies...
No problem, there's no need for apologies, even if you meant it, it's your opinion and it's respected. Besides I knew you didn't meant it. :bow:

[ShadesPanther]

I do enjoy the way that in a game with big (huge!) guys that are fast a team with heart and desire can compete.

From what was drilled into us for Rugby

"If they don't have the ball they can't score."

It's simple yet effective. As long as you keep the ball and don't give away silly fouls, in Rugby, you have a chance. That is why it is such a great game.

[Papewaio]

We were taught that to tackle hard so that they would fear to pick up the ball... suited testosterone charged 14 year olds.

[Quid]

We were taught that the bigger they are, the harder they fall...also effective...

Quid

[Subedei]

I plan on watching the England - South Africa game on Friday. I will have to go to an Irish pub as TV does not show the game in Germany.Some good old English lager 4 me. Hoooray. Besides that, could you answer me some questions:

1. What are the strength of both teams? I know SA is very good when it comes to line outs....see I am learning here.
2. Weaknesses?
3. Any special players one should observe?

Thank you Gentlemen! I really start to like this game. Sometimes it is hard for me to follow and understand all that is happening, but I try. Reading the rules helped. And a very nice feature of watching it on TV is, being able to listen to the referee.

[ShadesPanther]

1. What are the strength of both teams? I know SA is very good when it comes to line outs....see I am learning here.
Well SA are a typical Southern Hemisphere team. They have strong forwards and really fast backs. Watch them stretch England all over the pitch.
England's main strength would be their forwards who are huge but slow. They also have Jason Robinson who is getting on a bit though.


2. Weaknesses?
South Africa don't really have any obvious ones, I suppose their forwards aren't as big as they could be.
England have alot. They lack Jonny Wilkinson so they can't rely on getting penalties to win now. Their forwards are also very big and could be too slow for the really fast South Africans.


3. Any special players one should observe?

The South African winger Bryan Habana. Watch him fly.

[Subedei]

Thanks a lot ShadesPanther. Yeah, right, I have seen Habana play Samoa, he is very fast as far as I can tell. I guess it will be an exciting game....Kinda like Germany vs. England in soccer maybe...:inquisitive: Maybe not that charged, as I think Rugby fans are as enthusiastic as soccer fans, but less aggressive. The whole "fibe" is a differnt one...well, my :2cents:

And smth. I found....http://southafricanrugby.blogspot.com/2007/08/kiwi-new-haka.html

[Caius]

Go Argentina!

[El Diablo]

NOTE THESE ARE MY OPINIONS AND ARE NOT MEANT TO OFFEND - HEY I HAVE BEEN WRONG PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE

Players to watch?

Due to a stupid suspension the best South African player to watch will be on the side line

Schalk Burger - he is a machine!!

As for the other teams;

Aussies have strong backline and a great lineout - there scrum is pretty so/so but with George Smith they have good loose forwards (numbers 6,7 & 8) that are like a mid-field in football and provide continuaty.

France have huge forwards and when they want to amazing flair in the backs and on their day are unbeatable. A bit too unpredictable - I feel for their fans!!

England have a well oiled forward pack that may lack a bit of mobility but if they can control the pace of the game can be very hard to beat. They don't look the same as the team that won the last world cup but it is early stages and once you get to quarters it is sudden death and anything can happen.

Ireland are strong and with O'Driscoll have a match winner but may be slightly down on the list of favourites (but ahaed of England I would say). Always play with passion are true Irish fire but may be out skilled by some of the bigger teams - an outsider to win but not an impossible ask.

South Africa are scary!! Big Dutch (Afrikaan) forwards that are scared of nothing and some skill in there backs especially now they have Eddie Jones helping them out. Perhaps hangstrung by internal politics and forced racial selections but still a probable for the final.

New Zealand (my team:beam: ) Perenial chokers with a world of talent. McCaw, Carter, Collins and Hayman are all stars. Probably should win with their team on paper but the game is not played on paper. Second will not satisfy the country and the pressure of this often gets to the team.

Argentina, Scotland and Wales are also capable of beating any of the above team and Samoa, Tonga and Italy can hurt teams.

[Yawning Angel]

Very worried about this evening's game against the Boks, have a distinct feeling that England aren't going to come out of this too well. I think about the best we can hope for is rough parity up front (although the pack will have to step up their game to achieve this) without being able to put any dangerous/penetrating back moves together.

Personally I would be happy with a narrow (bonus point) loss but would obviously prefer a win. :laugh4: There will be mucho celebrating down the pub tonight if this unlikely event actually happens ~:cheers:

[Quid]

Very worried about this evening's game against the Boks, have a distinct feeling that England aren't going to come out of this too well. I think about the best we can hope for is rough parity up front (although the pack will have to step up their game to achieve this) without being able to put any dangerous/penetrating back moves together.

Personally I would be happy with a narrow (bonus point) loss but would obviously prefer a win. :laugh4: There will be mucho celebrating down the pub tonight if this unlikely event actually happens ~:cheers:

Premonition...Seriously though, England never stood a chance. It seemed they went on the pitch hoping all would be able to leave again unharmed (as it happens, thinking like that often gets you hurt - as seen in last night's match).

I feel sorry for Jason Robinson - I don't even think he is particularly good - he was clearly the only one that tried his best. Unfortunately, he was not supported...

Perhaps a wake up call. Perhaps not...I, for one, enjoyed the thrashing...

Go Bocks...

Quid

[Subedei]

So Gentlemen & lovers of the game named rugby...Could I ask for some refelctions on the upcoming game 2nite:

Ireland - France?

As a rookie Rugby fan I have never seen Ireland play...but well,do they have a chance? I guess so....They won both their games up to this point of the cup.

Anyways....I'll be off to our local Irish pub and watching the game in a beamer supported cineastic manner accompanied by a couple of Brown Ales...and hopefully a horde of joyous Irish fans.

Cheers, Subedei

[Banquo's Ghost]

So Gentlemen & lovers of the game named rugby...Could I ask for some refelctions on the upcoming game 2nite:

Ireland - France?

As a rookie Rugby fan I have never seen Ireland play...but well,do they have a chance? I guess so....They won both their games up to this point of the cup.

Anyways....I'll be off to our local Irish pub and watching the game in a beamer supported cineastic manner accompanied by a couple of Brown Ales...and hopefully a horde of joyous Irish fans.

Cheers, Subedei

I fear you and I are heading for severe disappointment. The two games we have won so far should have been dominated by the men in green and we barely turned over Georgia. In contrast, they smacked us around like Samoans.

We can't catch the ball at the moment and look bewildered. The French must win or they are going to be dragged from the stadium in tumbrils and guillotined in the Place de la Concorde. I suspect they might turn up mentally for this one and we are the ones facing summary execution.

I am now going to get drunk, because win or lose demands an early start on inebriation.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I suspect they might turn up mentally for this one and we are the ones facing summary execution.
Hehe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxljHECox1M&mode=related&search=) :bounce:

[Soulforged]

Hehe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxljHECox1M&mode=related&search=) :bounce:
Ouch!! That's what I'm talking about. Also thanks to France.:2thumbsup: Merci...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ah well. Congratulations to France - a decisive, committed win and well deserved. My only consolation is that you have demoralised Ireland so badly that we will be crushed by the Pumas and therefore you lot will be playing the All-Blacks in the quarters. :devil:

(Oh, and what a magnificient first try - pure class!)

Subedei, what you witnessed last night was a team that has been seduced by its own "legend". Individually, many of the Irish players are very talented. As a team, this group have yet to really accomplish anything (England soccer fans will recognise the syndrome). Shameful indiscipline let France impose themselves when they should have been the ones that were under pressure from the start because of the weight of expectation. Immensely poor coaching choices - dropping Stringer was madness, as he's a big game player and Reddan is inexperienced, and Dempsey for Murphy at full-back was insipid - the French are worried by Murphy as he's a dangerous runner from deep, and Dempsey, while solid, is not. Girvan's game was characterised by being dumped on his butt by Clerc for the second try.

O'Gara and O'Connor had shockers, again. We have a lack of leadership - it has always been my opinion that O'Driscoll, whilst talismanic, is not a good captain. He leads by example, but the forwards (as often the case with captaincy from a back) don't listen. O'Connell always seemed to me a better choice, but he's let himself and the team down too often to count now. Somebody patch Woody up or clone him...

Eddie O'Sullivan has shown his limitations again. To further the England soccer analogy, like Eriksson, he can win games, but is unable to win crucial matches. And he looks like a rabbit in the headlights when its going pear-shaped and he has to make a decision that will change the game. He rarely substitues well or effectively.

Ah well. At least now we are out (Yeah, I know, but seriously) I can enjoy the brilliant rubgy being played for its own sake. By other teams.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Is anybody watching Tonga and South Africa? Tonga's doing amazingly well.

[Subedei]

Thank you Banquo's Ghost, yes I realized that Ireland was not doing all that well. I think France dominated the game physically & technically.

I was lucky enough to sit next to a French and an Australian rugby fan. So I learned a lot. There were like 80 Irish & 30 French watching the game and the atmosphere was very relaxed. Beer, discussions and a good opportunity to practice my English.

That evil German sports channel is showing a boooooooring tennis match instead of Samoa playing versus England...~:pissed:

Yes, it is matchball time in the game...SamoaSamoa....Subedei-off-to-do-the-Haka

[Incongruous]

Well I must say that England's performance left most to be desired.
Wilkos was terribly off form and the backline was incredibly flat.
Olly and Johnny made an awful team and I could see sense in putting Olly back at no.10. The Forwards dominated set pieces, but Samoa are not known for their scrums or line-outs. Once again I'm left mystified by the awe which many of my countrymen back in England hold Sheridan, he is not a game breaker.

I would day that we are going to have a rough time of it in the coming week(s?):shame:

[Duke of Gloucester]

Well I must say that England's performance left most to be desired.
Wilkos was terribly off form and the backline was incredibly flat.
Olly and Johnny made an awful team and I could see sense in putting Olly back at no.10. The Forwards dominated set pieces, but Samoa are not known for their scrums or line-outs. Once again I'm left mystified by the awe which many of my countrymen back in England hold Sheridan, he is not a game breaker.


Was this the first England game you have seen? In the context of England being the current champions then the tone of your comments makes sense. England's backline did look ordinary most of the time and the team did fail to make the most of their forwards' dominance, especially in the line-out. The last is even more disappointing as this aspect of the game is a well-known Samoan weakness. However when compared with their performances in the first two games, they have improved imensely. I think you are being unfair on JW too. His kicking out of the hand was terrible, but to blame him for the lack of fizz behind the pack is unfair - he has not got much outside him in the threequarters and his decision making was sound for most of the match - he did create the opportunites for two of the four tries too. Don't forget, his monster kick from the half-way line came at a very important time too.

Let's be honest, following the first two games, Samoa must have fancied their chances. They are not a bad side especially when attacking from the loose. England did well to concede only one try. The threequarters were weak but Gomersall and Easter had excellent games and the pack were solid. All in all, a huge step forward from the SA game.


I would day that we are going to have a rough time of it in the coming week(s?)

Sadly, in spite of the improvement, this is probably true unless our backs can develop some threat. On their day we stand a chance against any Northern Hemisphere team, but any of the tri-nations will bury us (and we still have to beat Tonga to qualify):sweatdrop:

[Yawning Angel]

A lot of sense spoken by Duke of Gloucester
In the context of the previous games, Saturday was a marked improvement from England and providing we get more of the same next Friday I see no reason why we shouldn't comfortably beat Tonga. However, there is no doubting that Tonga will be truly up for the game and anything less than 100% and further improvement is likely to see us dumped out.

Still looks a little more hopeful than it did last week

[Subedei]

Congrats England and ALL RESPECT OUT to TONGA! I enjoyed watching the game!

[Louis VI the Fat]

64-7 ! :beam:


Georgia may lack quality, but not attitude. It's been a pleasure to have them at this WC.

Pity about the Ireland - Argentina result. Oh well, off to Cardiff to to face the all blacks it is then...
But Gah! It is a World Cup! If you want to win it, you'll have to face NZ at some point anyway. I say bring 'em on! :knight:

[Slug For A Butt]

Not neccessarily, we won it last time without facing the All Blacks. Thank God. England have always struggled against the All Blacks, we have lost the game before we get on the pitch...
Congratulations to the Pumas. Another well deserved victory.
France vs All Blacks should be a belter of a game. :2thumbsup:

[Justiciar]

I was cheering Argentina on all the way. Turns out shouting at the telly acctually DOES work! Should try that more often.. ah well, yay Pumas, and so forth. :argentina:

And good luck to the French team. 'tis needed, methinks. :yes:

[El Diablo]

Let me tell you the here in NZ we are very nervous of playing "Les Blues".

The rugby fan over here has a long memory and I personally can recall the "game of the century" when France beat us in 1999. What a game :jawdrop: , what a result :sad2:.

In that world cup France had struggled to beat Fiji so form is never something to attribute to France, they, on their day are unbeatable.

Will it happen again???

Well Deja vu is a French term!!!

But my 2 cents - go the All Blacks!!!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm going for South Africa and New Zealand now that the sides I was cheering for are out, but my heart is still with the Irish and the Welsh. It's a pity they're gone.

[Soulforged]

There's something about the irish that mystifies everything, at least for me. It was a shame that they ended on the same group as France and my national team. I would have loved to meet them later.:2thumbsup:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

This is one of the many reasons why I generally play down the fact I'm Welsh...

[Banquo's Ghost]

There's something about the irish that mystifies everything, at least for me.

We mystify ourselves. :shocked2:

My theory is that the moment anyone applies the epithet "Golden Generation" to any team, they might as well give up there and then.

Congratulations to Argentina, of course. Whatever our failings, they played superbly - controlled, focussed rugby that I couldn't help admire. The Pumas fully deserve their top of the table position, and an almost certain semi-final place. About time they joined the Six Nations and get the opportunity to humiliate Ireland on a regular basis.

And commiserations to Wales, but what a game! Great passion from Fiji. The smaller teams have been a revelation this World Cup - it's an outrage that the moneylenders are talking about reducing to 16 for next time.

At least my tickets for Cardiff are going to be to watch a couple of excellent teams go hammer and tongs. Anyone got a spare dark blue jersey?

[Orda Khan]

This is one of the many reasons why I generally play down the fact I'm Welsh...
Not a nice feeling, is it BKS? :no:

[Slug For A Butt]

Let me tell you the here in NZ we are very nervous of playing "Les Blues".

The rugby fan over here has a long memory and I personally can recall the "game of the century" when France beat us in 1999. What a game :jawdrop: , what a result :sad2:.

In that world cup France had struggled to beat Fiji so form is never something to attribute to France, they, on their day are unbeatable.

Will it happen again???

Well Deja vu is a French term!!!

But my 2 cents - go the All Blacks!!!


Exactly, it all depends which French team turns up on the day. When the French concentrate on their rugby instead of getting either temperamental or lethargic (which they are capable of in equal measures) they are a serious team that is great to watch, and I grit my teeth when I say this (as every good Englishman should) but... "Allez les Bleus!" :2thumbsup:

[InsaneApache]

England 12 Wallabies 10.

WOW!

Into the semis. :2thumbsup:

[Pannonian]

Oh
My
Goodness.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Sadly, in spite of the improvement, this is probably true unless our backs can develop some threat. On their day we stand a chance against any Northern Hemisphere team, but any of the tri-nations will bury us (and we still have to beat Tonga to qualify):sweatdrop:

Nice to be wrong!:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

[Lorenzo_H]

ENGLAND! ENGLAND!

[Slug For A Butt]

It would be quite an achievement to win the cup this time, having to beat Australia, France/NewZealand and (in all probability) South Africa one after the other. But I think this performance will give the whole team a massive confidence boost and who knows now? :2thumbsup:
Glad to see the back of that disrespectful Aussie team. :whip:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Bloody hell, I wish I'd put a couple of quid on an England-France Semi-final...

[Justiciar]

Jesus-on-a-Stick!

England vs France? Where in Hades own eternal damned kingdom did that come from?!

[william the bastard]

Jesus-on-a-Stick!

England vs France? Where in Hades own eternal damned kingdom did that come from?!

from land of Hope and Glory man!

Allez les Bleus!!!!:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Incongruous]

I am getting a serious bollocking from my mates down here.
Oh dear, apparently that English ref was quite awful.
ENGLAND!

[naut]

Now I've got to put up with whinging Aussies, :laugh4:. The joys of dual-citizenship.

[Quid]

Wow, what a turn up for the books, eh? Whoever thought the English beating the Australians was just short of a miracle (and it was) had another thing coming.

In all honesty, no one (but the French team) thought they would repeat their feat against The All Blacks from '99. I am actually quite dumbfounded. I never thought it possible as The All Blacks played so dominantly for the past three years. Given, they may not have had a proper test in the preliminary rounds but that team showed so much class all round, they were the sure winners of the cup in all but actually achieving it.

It pains me to concratulate England for their win but they thoroughly deserve it. They took the Aussies apart where it hurts most - the scrum. They literally annihilated them up front. England still has very little to show in the back line but finally shows some promise up front where they have been lacking severely for the past year or two.

Australia came out and seemed not at all convinced themselves they could actually win which is very strange as they definitely have the better team. They did not look at all confident all game and it showed early on.

The french. What can I say? Another marvellous team effort. On the individual basis they are nowhere near the NZ team (with, perhaps, one or two exceptions) but when a combined effort is asked of them, they are all there.

As soon as Chabal and Michalak were on, you had the feeling that this is going to be the day of Les Bleus. What a mammoth effort in defense! They tackled back one wave after the other. Was great to see. If they play like that against England in the semis, I can't see the Pommies win. But then, what do I know? I was sure the All Blacks would take this one home. If not them, then definitely another Southern Hemisphere team...

Go Scotland!

Quid

[Slug For A Butt]

"In an online poll by New Zealand's TV3 network, 55% of respondents blamed referee Barnes for the loss; 19% blamed the All Blacks and 7% blamed coach Graham Henry."
New Zealanders are also coplaining about French forward passes... that's rich coming from a team that completes more forward passes than they do backwards passes. Everyone just stands and stares at their feet then don't they.

Does this sound like sour grapes? Only 19% max blamed the French being the better team for the French victory. Christ, they should feel lucky that they didn't have to experience the blatant favouritism shown by Andre Watson in the last RWC final.

A quick question for any French rugby followers. Why the hell was it left so late to bring on Chabal and Michalak? Chabal is big, strong and intimidating (also has played well against NZ before), and Michalak is just, well... Michalak.

[Banquo's Ghost]

A quick question for any French rugby followers. Why the hell was it left so late to bring on Chabal and Michalak? Chabal is big, strong and intimidating (also has played well against NZ before), and Michalak is just, well... Michalak.

Michalak is French rugby in one person. One day (or any given ten minutes) he can be sublime, inspired, magical. The next he is sullen, wayward, maddening. You never know what you're going to get.

Chabal is an impact player, not an eighty-minuter. If he starts, he'll be yanked off after half-time. He can be a loose cannon - but I watched his face on the big screen as the haka was performed and I thought he was going to eat Dan Carter right there without cooking him first.

Laporte played a canny game, kicking and stifling in the first half. I suspect he was planning to do the same for the second half, but the French soul just took over and the substitutions inspired the lot of them.

There were more Irishmen in Cardiff than French and I like to think we lifted Les Bleus with our stirring renditions of "The Fields of Athenry". Lord knows, it was wasted on our lot.

Oh and congratulations to England too. Dull and predictable as always, but my goodness what spirit and courage. Serves the Aussies right. Arrogance has to be backed up on the field, not taken as a right. Oh, and next time bring some men to the scrummage - the schoolgirls that turned up to play with the English were out of their depth.

The 'Boks had a fair old battle this afternoon too. Let's hope Scotland and the Pumas do this World Cup justice - let's face it, what a set of quarters!

[Slug For A Butt]

He can be a loose cannon - but I watched his face on the big screen as the haka was performed and I thought he was going to eat Dan Carter right there without cooking him first.

Yep, I thought that was priceless too. Chabal made ME shit my pants then, imagine when he is two feet away from you. :sweatdrop:

Congratulations to the Pumas, they deserved it although they weren't at their best. Scotland were their usual lets paint our faces blue and charge for Scotland selves, but I really think they need to start playing smarter. Argentina were much more in control I thought.

Roll on next weekend, I think France and England will have a good old ding-dong, and it's OK saying England will be predictable but if our forwards control the game like we did against the Aussie girls there will be nothing for the French backs to exploit. Wishful thinking I know, but let's see a good game. :2thumbsup: (Also it will be nice to play against a team that is brave enough to scrummage, unlike the Aussies).

[Louis VI the Fat]

A quick question for any French rugby followers. Why the hell was it left so late to bring on Chabal and Michalak? BG gave a great answer already.

Chabal is God, but he must not be overestimated. He's a shock player, he has been used to fantastic effect on Saturday.

About Michalak I'm not so sure - I think I may have trusted him for this big one. But he is a risk. Much more so than Lionel Beauxis, a fantastic talent.

[Incongruous]

"In an online poll by New Zealand's TV3 network, 55% of respondents blamed referee Barnes for the loss; 19% blamed the All Blacks and 7% blamed coach Graham Henry."
New Zealanders are also coplaining about French forward passes... that's rich coming from a team that completes more forward passes than they do backwards passes. Everyone just stands and stares at their feet then don't they.

Does this sound like sour grapes? Only 19% max blamed the French being the better team for the French victory. Christ, they should feel lucky that they didn't have to experience the blatant favouritism shown by Andre Watson in the last RWC final.

A quick question for any French rugby followers. Why the hell was it left so late to bring on Chabal and Michalak? Chabal is big, strong and intimidating (also has played well against NZ before), and Michalak is just, well... Michalak.

After reviewing the game twice with some mates, I can say that the kiwis lost a large amount of points due to touch judges and the referee.
A french try was off the most blatant forward pass I have ever seen, the AB's backs were shut down by constant offside play by the French. McCalaster's sending of was a complete joke, worst call in rugby history.
The Touch judges were also instructed not to instruct the referee on possible infringement by the IRB.
Overall it was not a fair match IMHO.
No offense to the French but just a look at the statistics of that match shows something not right happened.

[Slug For A Butt]

A french try was off the most blatant forward pass I have ever seen, the AB's backs were shut down by constant offside play by the French. McCalaster's sending of was a complete joke, worst call in rugby history.
The Touch judges were also instructed not to instruct the referee on possible infringement by the IRB.


Look back at the other NZ games of this world cup and you will see that it is the biter that got bitten this time, forward passes have not been uncommon in NZ matches, just this time they were on the wrong end of one.
McCallisters sending off was correct for obstruction in my opinion (although I don't like to see elements of football theatrics enter Rugby).
And a northern hemisphere referee generally seeming a little leniant to a northern hemisphere team IN the northern hemisphere is no different to what happened in the final four years ago in the southern hemisphere. Were anyone except the English feeling a sense of injustice there? No.
And on the subject of unfairness, was it fair to lose Betson to a knockout blow while he was on his back? I think the All Blacks can count themselves lucky to get away with keeping 15 men there don't you?

[Pannonian]

First to gloat.

:balloon2:

[Justiciar]

I spent the vast majority of that game berating Wilkinson as a talentless ejit who kicks like a drunken amputee. Suffice to say, he redeemed himself. Anyhoo.. Yay England! Touch goal in the SECOND MINUTE! Have it.

France played much better Rugby, though. :quiet:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Bugger. :shame:


If it weren't for a measly five centimeters and about two hundred English rugby players jumping on him Chabal would've scored the winning try. ~:mecry:

Bah, a kicking game is ugly and you'll never beat England with it.

[/sulking]

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Hurrah!

It wasn't a pretty game, but it was an exciting one. The only thing between the teams at the end of the day was that fantastic tap-tackle. I wish our footballers could play with the kind of belief and desire the rugby side are at the moment, maybe they could get to a final as well.

I hope the Argies beat SA now, that way whoever wins the final it'll be something of a fairy-tale story.

[Myrddraal]

belief

Something I haven't seen between the world cups, but who cares, the belief is there now! :grin: :grin: :grin:

The whole world bar enland must hate Johnny Wilkinson, but the French have no ground left to stand on, since all their points came from kicking.

[Beefy187]

Aww am I the only SA supporter here?

WOO go SA

[naut]

Whoooo! And we scored a try.

[Slug For A Butt]

Damn I've got a big hangover this lunchtime, thanks for that England!
Not a pretty game, and for a long time the more accurate French kicking pinned us back in our own half.
We all groaned when we saw Chabal come on, and we all groaned when we saw him carry about 4 Englishmen on his back to within a few feet of the line before collapsing like a drugged elephant. But I thought the overall English defence was very good yesterday including that game saving tap tackle by Worsley :sweatdrop: .
From worst defending champions to finalists in a month! What price England for the cup now?
I'm feverishly searching the web for flights to Paris next Saturday, my wife's idea no less! Looking a bit expensive though, over £500 for one night in Paris sleeping on a street might just change her mind. Still, I'll keep looking.

Thanks England for making me feel proud again! :balloon2:

[Banquo's Ghost]

Congratulations to England for another gutsy, hard-fought performance. It's like watching a train crash - horrible, but somehow compelling.

Laporte finally came unstuck. His attempt to drive the wild, undisciplined passion from France succeeded only as far as a World Cup semi-final - and they've managed that before in the old Gallic tradition, so no gain there. Removing Beauxis was done by numbers, not by need - oh, it's the 51st minute, time for changes. France couldn't bring themselves to play to win, only play not to lose, which is always a mistake. And in a final irony, it was a flash of the old indiscipline surfacing despite all the indoctrination that broke the back of their campaign.

One more thing the English are excellent at is crowing - after the win (note to antipodeans). A couple of snippets from emails I have been sent:

IKEA's new Wallabies furniture range: Delivered as a flattened pack.

Marks and Spencer's have just launced the new All-Black bra: Lots of support, but no cup.

:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

[Mount Suribachi]

Wow....I managed to stay calm for the first 70 minutes, but the last 10 I was screaming at the telly!

We've been so bad for the last 3 years and now we're 80 minutes away fro retaining our title - unbelievable.

Most telling comment for me after the game came from Dallaglio - "we weren't playing with enough intensity, but since the South Africa game we've sorted it". So true. But their kicking in the final MUST be better, JW for points, trying to find touch and up and unders that don't go to deep.

[Slug For A Butt]

Anyone else trying to get to Paris for the final?

I'm desperately trying to find flights or ferries. But all the flights I can find are horrifically expensive and the ferries seem to be booked up (wanting to go Saturday come back Sunday not too early so the beer wears off).
If anyone else is having any more luck, I'd appreciate some help.

EDIT: @ Banquo
Sales of condoms have plummeted in France since the semi yesterday where it was proved that you only need 1 johnny to **** 15 frenchies. (No offence, it's just a joke ~;) )

[Craterus]

Springboks 10-3 Pumas

I may well be half-right :grin:

[Craterus]

Hmm, at least England have a chance to exact revenge on South Africa now.
Whether or not they do is another story...

[Slug For A Butt]

After seeing the match tonight, I'm much more optimistic about Englands chances in the final.
SA created pretty much nothing, OK they fed off some pretty naive schoolboy mistakes from Argentina but apart from the disallowed try for a forward pass they created nothing (it was fine build up play though).
Argentina choked big style, they made it look like the ball was a bar of wet soap. England won't be as bad with the error count I'm sure.
SA's line out looked damn solid, but then again so did France's. I can't wait to see how the scrums go though, I think England will have an edge there.
Very clever play by SA nullifying Argentina's superior maul tonight, turning it into obstruction. Someones been wearing their clever hat in the SA camp.

All in all, I can't wait for next wekend, SA will have a rude awakening if they expect the same bunch that they have faced over the last 3 years.

Btw, looking pretty impossible to get to Paris next weekend. :wall: Looks like I'm looking for a big screen in old Blighty. :shame:

[Soulforged]

Very clever play by SA nullifying Argentina's superior maul tonight, turning it into obstruction. Someones been wearing their clever hat in the SA camp.

Yes, Argentina was inferior to South Africa specially on the line outs, I was suprised at how much security that team had on the line outs, they were like fishes on water on those situations. But the mauls were a different story. The referee was spot on on many situations but on the mauls there were numerous lateral dives from some crazed suicidal bock that were not paid. The referee warned them but never charged them with nothing on the maul.

The mistakes on the lineouts were a nerve breaker and then they, the Pumas, started to commit a lot of errors. Well I'm waiting for the revenge of France on friday, too bad they're not gonna get it.:2thumbsup: joking

[Louis VI the Fat]

Well I'm waiting for the revenge of France on friday, too bad they're not gonna get it.:2thumbsup: jokingHah! I'm usually not a big fan of loser finals, but there is some unfinished business to attend to in this one...:whip:

Prepare to bleed. :knight:


Edit: Oh, the final should be good. Will be interesting, an entirely different game this time round I guess. Go...uh, either one!

[Slug For A Butt]

Hah! I'm usually not a big fan of loser finals, but there is some unfinished business to attend to in this one...:whip:

Prepare to bleed. :knight:


Edit: Oh, the final should be good. Will be interesting, an entirely different game this time round I guess. Go...uh, either one!

I'm not a big fan of loser finals either... unless my team is in it. :idea2:
France should beat Argentina comfortably now that the bubble has burst. But just think, France would have been facing the Boks in the semi if they had stopped that bubble forming in the first place. And I reckon France may have fared better against the Boks (another bully team like NZ) than they did against their Hoodoo team (England).

[Myrddraal]

Marks and Spencer's have just launced the new All-Black bra: Lots of support, but no cup.

:laugh4::applause:

[Hepcat]

:laugh4:

That's a new one that I haven't heard Myrddraal. One joke which I'm sick of hearing people cite over and over however is:

"What's the difference between the All Blacks and a tea bag?"
A tea bag stays in the cup longer.

[naut]

:laugh4:

[Subedei]

So Gentlemen, as we approach the final game...who are you with? I think England was not all of that in the beginning of the cup, but got better and better. The springboks played as far as I can tell very constant on a good level [correct me if I am wrong].

I am very undecided & I guess I will decide right at the beginning of the game...Just looking frwrd. to the final....Beamish & rugby...what more does one want?.

[scotchedpommes]

Will be hoping for South Africa to do the business. Wouldn't say it's clear which
way this one's going to go by any means, however.

[Slug For A Butt]

Yup, I think it will be a tight one to call too.
If the English forwards can drag the SA team into trench warfare then I think England have a fair chance (they are 100% better than in the first game or the one before that or the one before that etc).
If SA can keep the English forwards at bay then their backs can be a big influence.
SA lineout looks better, but I think England may have the advantage in the scrum.
Taking all this into account, I think England will win 93-0 (it would be 105-0 except for Johnny's missed conversions). Ummm...what....did someone wake me up now? :Zzzz: Damn it was all just a dream...dream...dream... :Zzzz:

But yeah... a hard one to call. A fitting finale.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yup, I think it will be a tight one to call too.
If the English forwards can drag the SA team into trench warfare then I think England have a fair chance (they are 100% better than in the first game or the one before that or the one before that etc).
If SA can keep the English forwards at bay then their backs can be a big influence.
SA lineout looks better, but I think England may have the advantage in the scrum.
Taking all this into account, I think England will win 93-0 For that joke alone, I hope they do! :laugh4:

But seriously. I can see it go either way for so many reasons too. There's no telling what will happen.

[Slug For A Butt]

Beamish & rugby...what more does one want?.

A good curry afterwards when I'm drunk. ~;)

GAH! I can't find any betting shops online that will give me a price on 93-0 to England. The closest I have found is England to win by 60 points and that is only 150-1. I'm going to visit the local betting shop and get a price on 93-0 (and I may take my camera to get their reaction). I'll let you know what odds I get because I've got to do it... I'm feeling lucky.

[naut]

I'm feeling anything but lucky following our shocking performance in other sports. :shame:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm feeling anything but lucky following our shocking performance in other sports. :shame:

The rugby boys have got to bloody win now, or I'll be really depressed.

[Soulforged]

Hah! I'm usually not a big fan of loser finals, but there is some unfinished business to attend to in this one...:whip:

Prepare to bleed. :knight:

It cannot be seen but there's blood on the green
Only God knows I'm innocent
Take me, take me home
A dark seed reigns in me like the Storm rules over the sea
I challenge thee, do not cross this bridge alone

But they did, and they were driven back again. An historic moment for the Pumas, sorry Louis but I've to enjoy it while I can...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Good for you, Soulforged.

Okay, so this World Cup is now over. You can all go home. Thanks for participating and it's been a pleasure to have hosted it from my tax money.


Toodle-pip and we'll all meet again in four years.



Beirut, BKS, thanks for hosting, you can close this thread now. :bow:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I would Louis, but I'm getting the niggling feeling that there's something...left to do? Some kind of closing ceremony or something. ~;)

I went to Trafalgar Square today, to see this-

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/enervatedband/1600685.jpg

Where are you all watching the game? Anyone in central London for it?

[Orda Khan]

I considered a trip to Trafalgar Square.....with my bow and a flaming arrow.
Is this what rugby fans want to see? Drop goals? Penalty kicks? Rugby went through this stagnant phase where tries became scarce and they upped the value to 5 points to try to encourage running rugby (anyone played when tries were 3 points with 1 point conversions?). Now we see rugby league defences but union has mauls and rucks, unlike the more continuous league game, so we now see stifled three quarters and more and more cross kicks. Something needs to be altered in the rules in order to drag the donkeys back into ball winning and thereby freeing up the field for open, expansive play. Nothing bores me more than 10 man games, try playing centre when it's a freezing day and the forwards want to keep the ball for themselves; I have and it certainly is no fun.
If today's game becomes another of these tedious displays it will be a sad indictment for rugby union

......Orda

[Justiciar]

Can't say I expected England to beat South Africa, but I certainly had my hopes. Oh well. C'est la vie. :shame:

Huzzah for South Africa, regardless! They certainly deserved it.

[shlin28]

Cannot...believe...South...African...won...

[Justiciar]

Seriously? You didn't see that coming at all? :inquisitive:

[Caius]

WooT The Pumas third! Congrats to South Africa!

[Beefy187]

Congrats SA!!

But its a shame that All Blacks left soo early.. Gotta love the Haka

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Can't say I expected England to beat South Africa, but I certainly had my hopes. Oh well. C'est la vie. :shame:

Huzzah for South Africa, regardless! They certainly deserved it.
Yep, I saw that coming as well. Good for SA though. ~:)

[scotchedpommes]

https://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w64/rdecejabolko/zuidafrika-n-sarks.jpg

:2thumbsup:

[Incongruous]

Gutting, absolute sadness....:embarassed:

[Slug For A Butt]

First of all, congratulations to the Boks. They deserved it over the whole tournament. :applause: :applause:
I thought it was a good game that England played to their strengths, the SA's did get sucked into a forward battle and their forwards battled enough to win the penalties. The fleet footed SA backs were nowhere to be seen (the overrated Habana included) which means that England played it right.
The scoreline flatters SA, but they deserved to win... just. (I hope they've got a certain Aussie Video Ref on their christmas card list).
All in all, I'm damn proud of my team (the worst World Champions ever... :dizzy2: ) and I'm not sure without Wiki'ng it, but aren't the Aussies the only other team to appear in a RWC final as champions?
Well played to the Boks and thanks England. I'm proud of my team again. :2thumbsup:

EDIT: Just one thing. It's understandable for a ref to make a mistake in real time and under pressure. But how on earth can a Video Ref "make a mistake"? Maybe the mistake was trying to repay Andre Watson.:inquisitive:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Congratulations to SA, they played very well. We were never going to win against a line-out like that, they were great the whole night.

[Banquo's Ghost]

First of all, congratulations to the Boks. They deserved it over the whole tournament. :applause: :applause:

Yes, indeed. Worthy champions. :balloon:


I thought it was a good game that England played to their strengths, the SA's did get sucked into a forward battle and their forwards battled enough to win the penalties. The fleet footed SA backs were nowhere to be seen (the overrated Habana included) which means that England played it right.

I can't agree with you that Habana is over-rated. His tackling was ferocious and the battle between him and Sackey was a grand old ding-dong. (You've got a real star in the making with young Sackey). The game didn't allow for running. The Bokke played England at their own game-plan, and ironically England got beaten by uglier rugby than they could muster. That, and the fact they couldn't win a line-out, which is a bit of a drawback if you want to play a kick and scrum game.

You should certainly be proud of your team - England are a shining example of what sheer attitude and passion can do. And I'm not looking forward to facing them next February with our lot of prima donnas. :embarassed:


EDIT: Just one thing. It's understandable for a ref to make a mistake in real time and under pressure. But how on earth can a Video Ref "make a mistake"? Maybe the mistake was trying to repay Andre Watson.:inquisitive:

Because it wasn't a mistake. Cueto's foot grazed the chalk, and that's touch. Anyway, if it hadn't been for another, real refereeing mistake earlier on, the All-Blacks might well have sent you lot home for the semi-final. :wink:

[Myrddraal]

https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5764/trypt7.jpg

Foot in touch + Ball not placed = no try... :sad:

Now I'm no expert on the rules, but why was that not a lineout to SA 5 metres from the line? We deserved something for that effort.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The referee was playing advantage, so it was a penalty to England.

[Slug For A Butt]

https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5764/trypt7.jpg

Foot in touch + Ball not placed = no try... :sad:

I've only just got back and haven't seen that shot, however grainy and indecisive it is. Every other shot makes it look a good try, and that's all I've seen 'til now.

@ Banquo. Yes it's been a fine example of what teamwork, attitude and grit can do in the absence of pure talent, but don't get me started on NZ and forward passes. About time they suffered at the hands of one of their own trademark cons, even though they would have beaten England if they had won that game...they always do.

[Orda Khan]

Whatever the result, which went to the better team and no matter how much England sorted out their problems, the fact still remains that their only tactic seemed to be a Gary Owen, thus creating another boring tennis match of a game. Ironically, their only real chance came when they actually ran the ball. One refereeing decision that nobody has mentioned since the night, is how no England forward was yellow carded for continually interefering with the ball. I can't remember when I last saw so many warnings go unpunished. Continuous infringements, especially those that prevent a sure try (like just before half time) should be dealt with firmly

........Orda

[Myrddraal]

I think the refereeing has been pretty good tbh Orda. The refs can't spot everything, and what they do spot, they do deal with harshly. After all, if it wasn't for stupid penalties given away by England then the score line would have been very different.

When a player questions the referee, and immediately get's sent back 10 paces, I feel safe in the knowledge that the referee isn't being soft. Mistakes there will always be, but that's not something to complain about.

[Orda Khan]

So you didn't hear Roland say he "won't warn you again", not too long before the last penalty in the first half ? The infringements were spotted and awarding penalties is one thing but one has to consider what to do when these infringements are a cynical means of preventing scores.
Hearing a referee constantly shouting "leave it number 6 (or whatever number) or "no hands!", when there are hands on the ball or when number 6 (or whatever number) has already committed the offence is a pain in the derriere. It does nothing but drag the game further down.

.....Rant Warning.....

Now South Africa has to suffer the political backlash yet again. Pathetic talk of 2/3 black players and other such multi racial nonsense. It seems the Boks are just the team that everyone loves to hate, all is well if they are being beaten regularly but things soon change when they are back on a winning streak. I remember watching the Springboks in awe, before they were banished. The most successful rugby union team (including the All Blacks, who they led in test series) I was certainly pleased when they returned to the rugby fold, now they have to constantly endure this treatment. Does that mean that New Zealand will field a team comprising 2/3 Maori's? That Australia will have a 66% Aboriginal presence? Will Ireland be a 50/50 split of Catholic and Protestant? Will playing for Wales depend on whether you can speak Welsh?
Sport is a recreation.....It should stay that way

......Orda

[Papewaio]

The Kiwis are All Black already.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Some thoughts:

- I think the strongest, most consistent team has won the tournament in the end. Congrats to South Africa, a worthy winner.


- I would've sworn that was a correct try on Saterday. From the camera angle from behind, you can clearly see Cueto lift up his foot, not touching the line while the ball contacts the ground.
Later on, I've learned, and saw, that his foot touched the line an instant before that. I have little doubt anymore that the video ref made the right decision.


- What to do with Argentina? Seven Nations? Four Nations Southern Hemi?

Or...a Latin Cup? Maybe bi-annual? France, Italy, Spain / Catalunia, Rumania, Portugal, Uruguay...
Maybe combined with an Anglo-cup. Tri-nations and the British Isles.
The winners of both can face each for a clash of civilisation.


- Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?


- This was a great World Cup!:

The Saturday when France and England spanked the Southern Hemisphere is already a classic.

The smaller nations were great - especially the Pacific island teams.

Argentina was fantastic. Great attacking stuff too.

No World Cup yet for France. Alas, this was the best chance ever. But the team was good and did us proud. The games against Ireland and NZ were great, tense stuff.

It was a blast! :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Soulforged]

- What to do with Argentina? Seven Nations? Four Nations Southern Hemi?

Or...a Latin Cup? Maybe bi-annual? France, Italy, Spain / Catalunia, Rumania, Portugal, Uruguay...
Maybe combined with an Anglo-cup. Tri-nations and the British Isles.
The winners of both can face each for a clash of civilisation.
That would be great, though Uruguay isn't really at par, we're isolated in this here southwestern part of the Earth regarding Rugby. Our team truly needs an international anual competition to be able to strenghten itself. I think that the appropiate one is the Tri-Nations, since they're all on the southern hemispher. Too bad and too good that they're also the strongest rugby teams ever. I hope our team gets an opportunity, they've shown that they deserve at least that.

Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?
Well when I first saw the Southafrican team, I was really surprised to see so few black man in it. But I agree with you. The hypocrates are the first to talk about the mandatory black quota in everything.

[Furious Mental]

"Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?"

Although I don't believe in racial quotas in sports teams in any case, unlike Anglo-saxon-celtic people in France and America, black South Africans were dispossessed and oppressed by a minority of foreign settlers for hundreds of years. "Apartheid" was founded on a legal fiction that blacks weren't actually part of the Republic of South Africa, but only their respective tribal homelands. Considering the historical context I can perfectly understand why some people would want the national sports teams to reflect to real ethnic composition of their country. It's all well and good to say "sport is recreation" but the reality of it is that anything which represents a country abroad is potentially political.

"That Australia will have a 66% Aboriginal presence"

FYI the population is not 66% Aboriginal.

[Orda Khan]

FYI the population is not 66% Aboriginal.
Did I say it was?
Really Furious Mental, are you going to use that as a basis for an argument when above that, you state that black South Africans were dispossessed? I would argue that Aboriginal Australians were dispossessed. The same applies to other indigenous peoples. Forget history, sport is not about history it's about recreation and a National team should be a team selected not by one's colour but by one's ability.
Any political implications are only the creations of those who lose sight of the fact that it is a game

........Orda

[Furious Mental]

Of course Aboriginal Australians were dispossessed. Did I say they weren't? But that's not the point. The point is that the ideological justification for refusing civil, social, and political rights to black South Africans was the fiction that they were citizens of other "countries", the tribal homelands. In this context I can absolutely understand that black South Africans would wish institutions that represent the country overseas to reflect the real ethnic composition of the country, as a countermand to the facade presented in the apartheid era that essentially the only South Africans were white South Africans. It's all well and good to complain that this is politicising a game but the reality of it is that rugby in South Africa is already polticised and has been since apartheid was founded; for the longest time teams were segregated and foreign tours had to drop non-Europeans from their squads. I am bemused at demands for racial quotas in the Springboks, but I am hardly surprised or outraged that there has been a reaction against the apparent dominance of whites in this area as in every aspect of society.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Careful guys, we're skirting dangerously close to backroom material here. Start a new thread there if you want to talk about ethinc makeup of teams please.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Maybe you should close the thread now that the tournament is over?

We can do recriminations/congratulations/postulations in a new thread here or the Backroom.

It's been a wonderful championship and an excellent thread too - thanks to all participants.

:bow: