Madeline McCann: New Developments

[Don Corleone]

If you don't care about personal interest stories in the media, please move along. I'm not interested in 15 posts of "who cares, children die everyday". You can show how cool and disaffected you all are in other threads.

For those of you who have been following this story, there was a huge development in the past 24 hours. While she hasn't been formally charged, it would appear Madeline's mother, Kate McCann, is now the prime suspect. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html)

The reason? Police crime scene investegators found Madeline's blood in a rental car the mother rented.... 25 days after she reported Madeline's disappearance. Can anybody pose some hypothetical explanations that would fit the facts without implicating either McCann parent? I really, really want to believe the parents had nothing to do with this, but frankly, I was stunned by this revelation and I'm not certain how else it can be explained than the obvious way.

[Fragony]

Nostrafragus = me

[macsen rufus]

Well, the most relevant section of the article you linked is this:


Portuguese Law
Formal suspect called "arguido" or "arguida" for a woman

An "arguido" has more legal rights than a witness, including right to remain silent and have a lawyer

Some people request to be declared "arguido" to get this protection

Police must declare a witness an "arguido" before asking certain questions or making an arrest

Courts may restrict movements of an "arguido"

An arrest or charge does not always follow someone being named an "arguido"



She has been made an "aguida" - not "prime suspect" as you stated. There is a difference, and it is a particular legal subtlety in Portugal. This is not the first declaration of "aguido" in this case, so you could well be leaping to unsafe conclusions.

[Xiahou]

Personally, I always thought something smelled funny about the parents' story. Leaving children that age alone in their room only to check in on them periodically just sounded profoundly stupid to me.

Some speculation I heard that sounded plausible was that the mother was somehow involved in the child's accidental death and they tried to cover it up. Of course, that is purely speculation at this point.

[Don Corleone]

Well, the most relevant section of the article you linked is this:



She has been made an "aguida" - not "prime suspect" as you stated. There is a difference, and it is a particular legal subtlety in Portugal. This is not the first declaration of "aguido" in this case, so you could well be leaping to unsafe conclusions.

Oh, I agree. What spurred me to start this thread was the evidence the police released to the press, that Madeline's blood was found in a rental car checked out by the parents 25 days after her disappearance, not the parents are suspects (I think in the absence of a known suspect, standard police procedure is to consider all close associates of the victim as suspicious, especially spouses, parents and offspring).

[Ronin]

the fecal matter has hit the rotating air distribution system then...

the parents story always sounded rotten has hell from the beginning

I´m still waiting for them to see them charged for child abandonment for starters (their self-admitted behavior regarding leaving 3 infants alone in a house falls under the legal definition of this under the Portuguese penal code) :book:

but with all the rumors of blood evidence coming up I´d guess that will be the least of their worries.

[FactionHeir]

They probably should be investigating who had access to that car in the past 90 days at least then (from the point of rental), as the blood was found 25 days after her disappearance.

In other news, about the time this broke on major news outlets that she had been called a suspect, one of the German news outlets was saying that a police dog had smelled "corpse smell" (Leichengeruch) on the mother's jeans. This isn't mentioned in any of the English news (I have checked) as far as I know.

I would also somewhat support the hypothesis that she became an aguida to gain extra protection or to allow the police to ask additional questions that they cannot ask a witness.

[Don Corleone]

Personally, I always thought something smelled funny about the parents' story. Leaving children that age alone in their room only to check in on them periodically just sounded profoundly stupid to me.


I´m still waiting for them to see them charged for child abandonment for starters (their self-admitted behavior regarding leaving 3 infants alone in a house falls under the legal definition of this under the Portuguese penal code) :book:


See, everytime I've made that argument to European friends, I get told that that is a very common practice in Europe and that you guys look at Americans as clingy, namby-pamby parents for keeping close tabs on our kids. I'm actually happy to hear that that isn't the case.

I mean, if the kids were 12 & 10, that's be one thing, but 4 & 2?

[Lemur]

I don't know how it is in Portugal, but the parents are the first ones to be investigated in any child disappearance in the U.S., if only to clear them. It's not mean or cold-hearted, it's just an acknowledgment of statistical truth.

It's like I tell Mrs. Lemur whenever she's angry at me, "If you murder me, remember, police investigate the spouse first." This has kept me alive much longer than I would have thought possible.

[FactionHeir]

Or maybe she's working in secret on a plan that'll make sure she's in the clear when she does :yes:

Back OT, she hasn't been charged even though she's been named a suspect.

[Don Corleone]

Like I said, her status as a suspsect or actually being charged isn't what floored me. It was the police announcing they found blood in a car that the family RENTED (not returned) 25 days after Madeline disappeared. I can only think of two possiblities... 1) The parent(s) did it (on purpose or accidentally) and tried to cover it up with this story of abduction (2) somebody with a lot of clout and a lot of knowledge is out to frame the couple, big time. Think Cosa Nostra. Who else would know to keep a vial of her blood, follow the parents around, and then apply it to a rental car in the possession of the parents. Has anybody investegated whether the parents have any ties to drugs, gambling or loansharking? Like they owe money to somebody?

[Devastatin Dave]

It's like I tell Mrs. Lemur whenever she's angry at me, "If you murder me, remember, police investigate the spouse first." This has kept me alive much longer than I would have thought possible.
It would appear that our tactics regarding self presurvation do not vary much my dear primate friend...

As for this story, it turns my blood to ice to think of how or why a mother or father could harm their own child. I'm sure this poor child is probably dead, but there is always hope. :no:

[macsen rufus]

Personally, I always thought something smelled funny about the parents' story. Leaving children that age alone in their room only to check in on them periodically just sounded profoundly stupid to me.

Some speculation I heard that sounded plausible was that the mother was somehow involved in the child's accidental death and they tried to cover it up. Of course, that is purely speculation at this point.

Well, to be honest my initial reaction when the news first broke about the disappearance was that when the truth finally outs, it would probably be family or friends - which caused a few shocked looks on the faces of my colleagues when I said so, but I do tend to be very cynical about these cases that generate the big emotional televised "family appeals". They so often turn out to be the cases where family is involved. However, one colleague of mine has had dealings with the father, and gave a very glowing account him, so that sort of swayed me a bit... however, I recognise that initial impression reflects my attitudes rather than any supportable conclusions on the case.

Speculation has been rife with this case, a lot of it lurid, a lot of it sensationalised. IMHO the tabloid media has sunk to yet new depths of untruth and fabrication in the absence of real facts, so I've not given any credence to any media coverage whatsoever. When you get two totally contradictory headlines in the same newspaper on consecutive days, something has to give, and frankly it's my willingness to pay them any heed at all.

So to Don's original post, I don't have any scenario to explain the facts - largely because I don't believe they are facts, not yet. Since when do murder/abduction investigators release such important material evidence publically before trial? They don't; the information the tabloids have used has mostly been "unattributable leaks". I'll start believeing things if and when they're presented in a court, with perjury and oath as counterbalance, rather than in a newspaper when only pretty toothless defamation and libel laws can be applied.

For the record, even in the UK it's not legal to leave under 16s unattended, AFAIK, yet we still have cases of parents going off on foreign holidays, leaving kids "home alone" :no: I don't really think being 50 yards away and making regular checks is really in that class. I'm sure 99% of parents have done similar at least once.

If I was the praying type, I'd pray fervently for a happy outcome to this whole affair, but I cannot imagine what it could be.

EDIT:


Has anybody investegated whether the parents have any ties to drugs, gambling or loansharking? Like they owe money to somebody?


I doubt it - he's a well respected heart surgeon - I could imagine crazy relatives of patients though....

[Don Corleone]

Aaah, Mascen, we have a very different experience of the case over here. Unlike you, we don't get daily or weekly bombardments. In fact, we generally only hear a story about once a month. The latest one, about the blood evidence being found in the car, was carried by CNN, Fox and MSNBC. I'll grant you it hasn't been introduced as evidence yet, but generally speaking, when all 3 of these news outlets go this far out on a limb, they're pretty sure on what they're saying (though any one individually has been tragically wrong in the past).

But I hear and agree with your overall sentiment, that it pays to wait to see the evidence, if it is that, entered into a court record.

[HoreTore]

I doubt it - he's a well respected heart surgeon - I could imagine crazy relatives of patients though....

Yes, we've never heard of well respected people with jobs paying millions secretly losing millions either on gambling tables or up their nose...

That never happens. :inquisitive:

[Tribesman]

I don't really think being 50 yards away and making regular checks is really in that class.
Macsen how many times have the parents changed the story about how regular the checks were ?


he's a well respected heart surgeon
And she is a doctor , but they couldn't be arsed to pay for the available child minding service or miss out on dinner and drinks with friends .
If they were not "well respected" people , perhaps if he was a grease monkey at the local garage and she worked a check-out how differently do you think this would have been treated?

Anyhow on a pure speculation thing (not by me but by the missus) when the parents first appeared on the news at the time of the childs disappearance , she said straight away that the father had something to do with it .
Could she be right , could she be wrong , its all just speculation isn't it .

[Devastatin Dave]

You know, here's another angle on this story...
What if the Portugeese authorities have bungled this investigation so much that now they are "giving" this lady a 2 year deal, as reported. Doesn't this seem a little strange to anyone. I mean 2 years for the murder of a child? Nothing in this story seems on the up and up.:furious3:

[Ronin]

You know, here's another angle on this story...
What if the Portugeese authorities have bungled this investigation so much that now they are "giving" this lady a 2 year deal, as reported. Doesn't this seem a little strange to anyone. I mean 2 years for the murder of a child? Nothing in this story seems on the up and up.:furious3:


I don´t know were this 2 year value comes from but I´m pretty sure it won´t come from the Portuguese authorities...

the last case like this that there was here in Portugal (small girl killed, body never recovered) the mother was convicted and given 25 years as a sentence.

and besides this "framed" angle that the family is spinning now is frankly insulting and stinks of propaganda by the family.

[Don Corleone]

I don´t know were this 2 year value comes from but I´m pretty sure it won´t come from the Portuguese authorities...

the last case like this that there was here in Portugal (small girl killed, body never recovered) the mother was convicted and given 25 years as a sentence.

and besides this "framed" angle that the family is spinning now is frankly insulting and stinks of propaganda by the family.

It's coming from a press announcement by the father's sister.

[Ronin]

It's coming from a press announcement by the father's sister.


well...this afternoon the mother´s mother was saying on English tv that this was all an elaborate frame-up and that the police had PLANTED the blood evidence in the car (were exactly the Portuguese police would have gotten Madeline´s blood to do this beats me :dizzy2: )

so I wouldn´t take anything any of them say very seriously.......they seem to have gone into "crazy blame everyone but the parents" mode.

[econ21]

...the mother´s mother was saying on English tv that this was all an elaborate frame-up and that the police had PLANTED the blood evidence in the car ...

Yes, the mother's mother is definitely not helping.

Channel 4 News reported UK forensic experts saying that it was not just the blood on the car, but that there was a ton of forensic evidence. Suspecting the mother and not the father suggests to me some of the evidence may have been on the mother's clothing (the one the corpse sniffing dog reportedly went crazy over).

But I still can't think of a plausible explanation of the blood being in a car rented 25 days after the disappearance. If the implication is supposed to be that the parents moved the body after nearly a month, how on earth could they manage that - what with the police search and media attention?

[Devastatin Dave]

I don´t know were this 2 year value comes from but I´m pretty sure it won´t come from the Portuguese authorities...
.
Ummm, from the news, Sugar Nuts.:beam:

[Ronin]

Ummm, from the news, Sugar Nuts.:beam:

so in other words....from the crazies in the family of the 2 suspects that throwout the day have made bafons of them selfs in a sad attempt to undermine the Portuguese police..........ohhhh and the journalist that bought everything he´s told...

good to see the news is up to such high standards :book:

[Duke of Gloucester]

I don't know how it is in Portugal, but the parents are the first ones to be investigated in any child disappearance in the U.S., if only to clear them. It's not mean or cold-hearted, it's just an acknowledgment of statistical truth.

It's like I tell Mrs. Lemur whenever she's angry at me, "If you murder me, remember, police investigate the spouse first." This has kept me alive much longer than I would have thought possible.

This is the way that I am thinking. The parents should have been the prime suspects at the beginning because in any case like this, the parents are more likely than any other individuals to have been involved. I am amazed that the police were not able to find any evidence against the parents when it was fresh, but now they have found "a ton of forensic evidence". If the couple were responsible for Madeleine's death, the police have handled the investigation very badly.


Macsen how many times have the parents changed the story about how regular the checks were?

I think this supports the idea that they are not guilty. If the abduction was a cover story they would have the details like the frequency of checks off pat. Unless, of course, they are being very subtle.

I think we need to wait to hear the forensic evidence. Even then evidence that seems conclusive at one time can be shown to be worthless later. Ask the Birmingham Six.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

well the Birmingham six were tortured so...

This has always smelled funny but I'm not sure if the parents were in on it or if they know why she was taken/killed.

[Ironside]

so in other words....from the crazies in the family of the 2 suspects that throwout the day have made bafons of them selfs in a sad attempt to undermine the Portuguese police..........ohhhh and the journalist that bought everything he´s told...

good to see the news is up to such high standards :book:

Well that number showed up in Swedish media as well. Of course that was for admitting involuntary manslaughter or whatever you english speakers call it and not for murder.

[Ronin]

Well that number showed up in Swedish media as well. Of course that was for admitting involuntary manslaughter or whatever you english speakers call it and not for murder.

that leaves out the small detail that Portuguese police can´t offer deals like that....the sentencing is entirely up to the judge that presides over the court.

[doc_bean]

If you don't care about personal interest stories in the media, please move along. I'm not interested in 15 posts of "who cares, children die everyday". You can show how cool and disaffected you all are in other threads.

For those of you who have been following this story, there was a huge development in the past 24 hours. While she hasn't been formally charged, it would appear Madeline's mother, Kate McCann, is now the prime suspect. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html)

The reason? Police crime scene investegators found Madeline's blood in a rental car the mother rented.... 25 days after she reported Madeline's disappearance. Can anybody pose some hypothetical explanations that would fit the facts without implicating either McCann parent? I really, really want to believe the parents had nothing to do with this, but frankly, I was stunned by this revelation and I'm not certain how else it can be explained than the obvious way.

We've had a 'similar' case in Belgium rather recently, it was the mother, she had also lost a previous child in an 'accident'.

With these kind of things, it's often the parents. I suspect the police has been quitely investigating them since the beginning.

[Tribesman]

well the Birmingham six were tortured so...

They were not tortured , it was just aggressive questioning to see if they were real men . I underwent worse interrogation before I was sent to Japan to load cameras in the fight against the commies .

[The Wizard]

To be honest, as far as I've followed this (not a lot at all), I've always kind of suspected the parents. It was too... convenient. Even if they hadn't done this themselves, they'd still be guilty of leaving the child alone when they were away.

[Duke of Gloucester]

well the Birmingham six were tortured so...



They were not tortured , it was just aggressive questioning to see if they were real men . I underwent worse interrogation before I was sent to Japan to load cameras in the fight against the commies .

Whether they were tortured or not is not relevant (btw, they were). The relevant parallel was that there was forensic evidence - traces of chemicals on their fingers that "proved" they had been handling explosives - which later turned out to be unreliable. (In the Birmingham six case it turned out that the chemicals could have come from playing cards or cigarette wrappings).

[caravel]

The latest is that they've returned to the UK. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6985454.stm

[Geoffrey S]

Serious mishandling of this by the Portugese. If they've got evidence accuse the McCanns, but right now they don't seem capable of backing anything up. What they've done now is leave the situation wide open for rampant speculation and a field day for the media, who right now are getting all their information from the family.

[English assassin]

The reason? Police crime scene investegators found Madeline's blood in a rental car the mother rented.... 25 days after she reported Madeline's disappearance. Can anybody pose some hypothetical explanations that would fit the facts without implicating either McCann parent? I really, really want to believe the parents had nothing to do with this, but frankly, I was stunned by this revelation and I'm not certain how else it can be explained than the obvious way.

How about **** up in the forensic science lab.

I mean, FIRST, the mother somehow kills the child. Not at home, where she could put her under the patio but on holiday in Portugal, where the child is being checked on by a range of different people every 30 minutes or so.

The killing must have been intentional, btw, because if (god forbid) I accidently killed my child, I would instantly be phoning for an ambulance, not going back to finish my dessert.

THEN the mother conceals the body for 25 days. In the meantime, she creats an international media sensation, instead of playing the "too distraught with grief to talk" card.

Despite this intense media interest, she somehow manages to move the body, which must have been pretty ripe by this time, and hide it where no one can find it.

All traces of this are ignored for weeks and weeks, and then suddenly a "mass" of forensic evidence is found.

If any part of that makes the slightest sense I am Sherlock Holmes, and not all the sniffer dogs in Europe are going to persuade me otherwise. A dog is, after all, just an animal that thinks sniffing backsides is a good idea.

I reckon my hairdresser had the right idea: abducted to order, possibly (hopefully) for adoption. She (my hairdresser) had a schoolfriend who went on to be a nurse at a Latvian children's home. She reckoned kids were bought and sold quite a bit. (No offence intended to Latvians.) Why take a kid on holiday? Lots of kids to choose from, harder for the parents to interact with the local plod, easier to wander about mingling with the crowds, who knows.

[Duke John]

For the people who care: In my paper I read that the police had found body fluids, which can be blood, but also spit, urine, etc. If I remember correctly Madeline McCann said that the police wouldn't say to her what kind of body fluid. With all the media attention it is easy to go for the most sensational one.

[Geoffrey S]

Precisely. Very few actual facts quickly got translated into anything the press was willing to print, with the general vibe among the public turning into 'yeah, I actually thought they were dodgy from the start'. I'll wait until there's any real news.

[Don Corleone]

Fair enough, and thank you for the suggestion of an alternate scenario, EA. I hadn't thought about that, that the lab may have cross-contaminated evidence. As gruesome as the thought might be, I also was wondering what sort of shape a corpse would be in, 25 days after remaining unburied in a semi-tropical environment.

Perhaps it is best to just wait and give the Portugese authorities the time they need. I will say, it's been my experience that the longer authorities take in an investegation, the less likely they are to have a successful completion. Just look at that mess down in Aruba, with Natalee Holloway. I wouldn't begin to know who to point the finger at by this stage in the game, but its clear somebody got away with murder, because the cops screwed around for so long.

[macsen rufus]

This whole "body fluids" issue sounds odd to me, too.

1) Assuming she had died, after 25 days what "body fluids" could possibly be produced? Blood for instance coagulates pretty quickly after death, and all the other candidates dry up, too.
2) Live children - of which there are still two - are pretty competent at producing all sorts of body fluids, especially during long car-trips.
3) Said live children, and the parents, are all going to produce genetic fingerprints very similar to Madeleine's, of which is there any reliable sample to compare with?
4) Chain of custody of the car would not stand up to much scrutiny in terms of evidential reliability.
5) I just can't believe a body could have been successfully concealed in an area crawling with police and sniffer dogs for 25 days, then smuggled out in a hire car.

As for the Portuguese police, I'm verging towards this "plea bargain" offer being a case of - "We have no evidence, we suspect you did it, say you did it then we can all go home".

[rory_20_uk]

The Times had a good article stating that the investigation was such a mess to start with (such things as not investigating the parents straight away - if only to exonnerate) that now the evidence has been so muddied liklihood is that bar finding someone with the body no one will be found guilty as too long has passed.

When this blows over the McCann family can set themselves up as a PR consultation company for the amazing job they've done.

~:smoking:

[Adrian II]

I didn't follow this one at all. I've been out sailing for, oh, weeks on end. And I won't catch up with you guys either, I just can't be bothered. There is nothing of general interest in this, not the slightest titbit of information of wider importance with regard to surgeons, Portugal, child trafficking or any other topic that might be worth all the paper and air time spent on it. And the BBC seems to be leading the bunch this time. O tempora... Even after all those years on my job I am still disappointed how easily a non-story becomes a story and everybody starts feeding on gossip about rumours based on speculation caused by hours or days without 'real news' on a case. Call me naive.

Speaking of kids, has anyone seen mine in these past weeks? :stupido3:

[econ21]

Adrian, welcome back, but I am not sure you read the first sentence in this thread:


If you don't care about personal interest stories in the media, please move along.

[Don Corleone]

Adrian, welcome back, but I am not sure you read the first sentence in this thread:

I'm sure he did. Point taken, Adrian.

[Ronin]

As for the Portuguese police, I'm verging towards this "plea bargain" offer being a case of - "We have no evidence, we suspect you did it, say you did it then we can all go home".


I´m gonna say this one more time to see if it sinks in...

Portuguese Police do not offer "plea bargains"...they do not have the authority to do so because the police and the prosecutor have no say in the sentencing...only the judge of the case determines the sentence.

what we have here is the british media that are trying to turn this into a soap opera...they have published and said things on the air that are 110% unadulterated bull-**** ...its ridiculous....the other day I was watching Sky news an I couldn´t figure out if I was seeing a news broadcast or the "McCaan cheer leading network"....all they were missing were the pon-pons and the uniforms......:no:
do people out there watch this crap?

[Adrian II]

Adrian, welcome back, but I am not sure you read the first sentence in this thread:I guess what I was trying to say is that this is not a personal story at all. It is a media spectacle, there is nothing personal about it in the sense that what really happened has literally been anybody's guess since day one. Hardly a conclusive contribution to this thread, I realise that. But it may be relevant to realise that this 'story' is not about the McCanns at all, at least not anymore if it ever was. It is all about us, about what you and me and others want to believe, fear, dream up or interpret. I am sure Don took it that way. Thanks for being a sport, Don.

[Duke John]

Well, you are right, Adrian. It was quite sad, at least for the parents, that during one press conference all the questions were about the media attention and photographers and camera people taking shots of each other. I believe that none or very few questions were related to the missing child. The media circus was there to register the media circus.

[Scurvy]

what we have here is the british media that are trying to turn this into a soap opera...they have published and said things on the air that are 110% unadulterated bull-**** ...its ridiculous....the other day I was watching Sky news an I couldn´t figure out if I was seeing a news broadcast or the "McCaan cheer leading network"....all they were missing were the pon-pons and the uniforms......

I agree :2thumbsup:

the Portuguese secrecy information thing doesn't help here, the rule itself (the Portuguese police have to be careful over what they release to the public) i like, but this means the media are left with very little to go on, and so end up stirring up the fuss.

I don't think the Police have been all that useless, they have been criticized for not reacting quickly, and for not sealing off the villa early on, but children go missing fairly regularly in tourist areas, and are usually found within hours by parents etc.

--> also it would seem very odd to me for the police to accuse the McCann's of anything unless they had some evidence they thought could hold up..

:2thumbsup:

[English assassin]

--> also it would seem very odd to me for the police to accuse the McCann's of anything unless they had some evidence they thought could hold up..

They haven't accused them of anything. While we are media bashing, I think this whole suspect business is blown out of proportion. As far as I can work out, assuming the consequences of suspect status have been correctly described, its more or less equivalent to being arrested in UK terms, or, possibly, merely being interviewed under caution. Which is not the same as being accused, still less charged.


I´m gonna say this one more time to see if it sinks in...

Portuguese Police do not offer "plea bargains"...they do not have the authority to do so because the police and the prosecutor have no say in the sentencing...only the judge of the case determines the sentence.

Yeah, sure, its the same in the UK. Plea bargaining still happens. You agree to charge manslaughter not murder, GBH not GBH with intent, you let some charges lie on file, you sum up demanding 5 years not ten, you agree to tell the judge how co-operative the suspect was in the investigation, yadda yadda, the judge still sentences, but it comes to a plea bargain all the same. Maybe Portuguese police are all wet behind the ears unlike naughty old British PC Plod but I doubt it.

[macsen rufus]

That's why I put the " ... " in "plea bargain". It may well not be "official" plea bargaining, but it IS a way to put extra pressure on the suspect, nonetheless. It's probably closer to a threat which should be looked at from the opposite perspective - "If you don't admit to SOMETHING, we'll throw the book at you."

But of course, I'm sure the Portuguese police don't issue threats, fabricate evidence, lie to suspects during questioning, or frame people, either (just like their UK counterparts...) Nope, it's not the police being wet behind the ears...

[Tribesman]

A new development .
The French auto industry has taken note .
Buy the new Renault McCann , so spacious you won't even know your kids are there .

[Don Corleone]

A new development .
The French auto industry has taken note .
Buy the new Renault McCann , so spacious you won't even know your kids are there .

*Buh dum, bum* *tssssh* :drummer: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, he's in town all week, 2 shows a night.

Seriously, that was pretty funny.

[Ronin]

A new development .
The French auto industry has taken note .
Buy the new Renault McCann , so spacious you won't even know your kids are there .

that one was funny :laugh4:

Actually I´m pretty sure a couple of years ago I saw a tv add for a car were a parent lost his kid inside a car.....can´t remember which brand it was...

[Proletariat]

A new development .
The French auto industry has taken note .
Buy the new Renault McCann , so spacious you won't even know your kids are there .

:laugh4:

Edit: You've now officially gotten me back for that Easter card from a few years back.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Thought this was interesting:

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/05/madeline-mccanns-parents.html

A tested "truth wizard" believes the parents are innocent.

[InsaneApache]

This is even more interesting.


Leonor Cipriano, 36, told for the first time how she was forced to kneel on glass ashtrays with a bag over her head as police repeatedly hit her during almost 48 hours of nonstop questioning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2511981.ece

I'm not surprised in the slightest.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well in that case I don't expect they'll ever find her if this is the caliber of the investigating officers.

[InsaneApache]

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v123/134/51/505584258/n505584258_111550_592.jpg

:embarassed:

[Fragony]

lookidilook

http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/maddierugzak.jpg

[Ronin]

wow....a 3-4 year old with blond hair...

never saw one of those before!!!!

*looks around*
ohhh wait.... :inquisitive:

[Fragony]

It's her :yes:

@maddy's mum, sorry, forget what I said

[Ronin]

It's her :yes:

@maddy's mum, sorry, forget what I said

if you´re certain that´s her just by that picture....then I must inform you that I probably passed by her about 4 or 5 times on my way to work today.....:yes:

kids at this age are similar from afar....all you need is the same hair color and general hair-cut

[Stig]

I say meh to all this stuff, there are so many people missing in Darfur, in Afghanistan and in other parts of the world.

https://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4769/katemillionairerw3.jpg

[Fragony]

http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/mrokkomaddie.jpg

There will be mucho apoligising to do :yes:

[English assassin]

This is even more interesting.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2511981.ece

I'm not surprised in the slightest.

I came to this a bit late, but wow, 48 hours non-stop questioning, beaten with batons, the police claiming she "threw herself down the stairs" and a confession retracted after a good night's sleep.

This is so retro its not true. Did the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad all retire to Portugal?

[macsen rufus]

Did the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad all retire to Portugal?
:laugh4: :laugh4:

[Ser Clegane]

It's her :yes:

Unfortunately it seems that she is not (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7014886.stm)

[Louis VI the Fat]

I saw Madeleine too today!

And Elvis!

[Ronin]

And Elvis!

LIAR!!!

Elvis is locked in my basement.....I checked the locks just 10 minutes ago...

seriously now....I suggest the McCann´s go to American and talk with OJ Simpson.....maybe he can give them some pointers in finding the "real perpetrators" :yes: :laugh4:

[Uesugi Kenshin]

LIAR!!!

Elvis is locked in my basement.....I checked the locks just 10 minutes ago...

seriously now....I suggest the McCann´s go to American and talk with OJ Simpson.....maybe he can give them some pointers in finding the "real perpetrators" :yes: :laugh4:

Hey don't dis OJ, he spent a lot of time scouring those Floridan golf courses for murderers!

[Fragony]

Unfortunately it seems that she is not (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7014886.stm)

Aye just saw pic. Would have been great though.

[Ser Clegane]

Would have been great though.

I concur.

[Geoffrey S]

Shame it took a journalist to find that out, rather than the authorities...:shame: