Shieldwall

[Son of Perun]

Which units in EB should use shieldwall?

[mcantu]

none by default

[TWFanatic]

In their descriptions, some of my units can use the shield wall and schiltrom. Yet in battle, they have no special abilities.:help:

Is that just for BI?

[Foot]

In their descriptions, some of my units can use the shield wall and schiltrom. Yet in battle, they have no special abilities.:help:

Is that just for BI?

We have our own version of the shieldwall, pressing the guard button will tighten the formation of Hoplitai and the like.

We don't have the schiltrom in any form, nor is it included in our descriptions. This must be a BI thing.

Foot

[The Celtic Viking]

We have our own version of the shieldwall, pressing the guard button will tighten the formation of Hoplitai and the like.

We don't have the schiltrom in any form, nor is it included in our descriptions. This must be a BI thing.

Foot

Don't you mean the loose/tight formation button? (Where the "loose" formation is the "shieldwall".)

Schiltroms is indeed a BI thing, as are "real" shieldwalls (as in a shieldwall that's built into the battle system, like the [sarissa-]phalanx formation).

[TWFanatic]

Kinda like in SPQR eh? Strange though, I've never noticed it in EB. Will try guard mode and formation buttons next time to try and find it.

As for the Schiltrom, Polybian Triarii have that formation. See the EDU.

[Reno Melitensis]

If you installed a non official EB mod, like Darth or others, those changes are for EB with BI.

Cheers.

[Son of Perun]

I wasn't clear enough. I just want to know which units in EB with BI should use shieldwall (because they used it historically).

[Foot]

Using shieldwall from BI on units in EB without altering the original EB stats is unadvisable as it will imbalance those units.

Foot

[Son of Perun]

Then spear-armed units are disadvantaged. For example germanic lancemen are useless without shielwall.
BTW, has anyone made minimod to rebalance EB for BI?

[Ferromancer]

I wasn't clear enough. I just want to know which units in EB with BI should use shieldwall (because they used it historically).

If you used my installer to get EB working in BI, no units should have both schiltrom and shieldwall (that would be a bug on my part). If so, please tell me which unit it is. For other units, non-skirmisher units with large shields can shield wall. Spear units that have cavarly bonuses, and do not have shield wall, can use the schiltrom.

I haven't tried turning on both BI shieldwall and EB pseudoshieldwall at the same time, but I don't recommend it. I *should* disable the pseudoshieldwall in the txt file and restore the loose formation, but I have no idea how to do that . Any help would be appreciated.

EDIT: the installer I'm talking about is this one: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88717

[Son of Perun]

Sounds interesting, Ferromancer.

I know that Gauls and Germans were using shieldwall formations in EB timeframe, but I don't know which units.

[Bootsiuv]

Using shieldwall from BI on units in EB without altering the original EB stats is unadvisable as it will imbalance those units.

Foot

Just out of curiousity, why? I'm just thinking about it....shieldwall doesn't do that much does it? What I mean is, it just brings guys closer together and there aren't any defensive bonuses given, are there?

Once again, this is simply out of curiosity, and I'm not disagreeing with you or anything. It just got me wondering if BI's shieldwall gives a + to defense stats.:2thumbsup:

[bovi]

There's a plus to the defence stats :beam:.

[Bootsiuv]

Thanks, Bovi. :)

Yes, that would probably imbalance all of your guy's hard balancing work. Maybe I won't use the BI.exe. :(

[Spoofa]

why? BI.exe alone, even without shieldwall and things helps alot what with the AI and such.

[Bootsiuv]

Yes, but ferromancers installer includes shieldwall, and, if I remember correctly, it's a real pain in the ass to do it manually.

[Spoofa]

I dunno i enjoy edu editing :laugh4:


(btw boot ive edited the EDU to make it so that Makedonian Phalanx is defaulted at 16 ranks deep like it was realistically in the edu i just editted this morning so ill post that somewhere and we can use if it you want.)

[Bootsiuv]

Sounds fine with me, although I'm a little weary of asking people to have to download yet another file for the game....perhaps you should bring it up in the council thread, and if no one minds downloading another mod (well, your variation of one, anyways), then we'll use it. :)

[Ferromancer]

The installer I created has the option of not modifying the edu's at all and simply ports EB as it is to BI. So you don't HAVE to have BI's shieldwall or shiltrom. Unfortunately, if you don't check the shieldwall/shiltrom option, you won't get the sliger-archer sound fix either :)

[Bootsiuv]

Good to know Ferromancer. In that case, I will be using the BI.exe. I'll just have to either deal with the sounds, or learn how to fix it myself. :)

[Ferromancer]

Good to know Ferromancer. In that case, I will be using the BI.exe. I'll just have to either deal with the sounds, or learn how to fix it myself. :)

The fix was so tied up in the EDU information that I was unable to split it out as a separate option. Trying to sync a shieldwall option with a bugfix option would have been a nightmare, so I just bundled them. At least the way it is now, you can uninstall without tangling everything up.

God I hope it's fixed in the next version... I don't know why they said it was "impossible" to fix.

[Kurulham]

Morning all,

So having just found out how to do the EB pseudoshieldwall, I tried it out last night only to find that it... didn't happen. I pressed "loose" and my hoplitai spread out like any other unit. I went and looked through EDU and saw that the only units with a "weird" loose formation are the Massiliotes hoplitai and the Baktrion agema, and they've got a "weird" tight formation, too.

Am I doing this wrong?

[Watchman]

IIRC some Hellenic units had very strange formation settings, so it could be that.

[Kurulham]

Hmm. An update to the pseudoshieldwall issue: playing as the Sweboz, my Frameharjoz and Herthoz do their pseudoshieldwall just as advertised, so I guess it's just a matter of editing EDU to give the classic Hellenic phalanges back their formations.

[Puupertti Ruma]

The Classical hoplites in tight formation actually are in the EB "pseudo-shieldwall" by default. The trick is, without guard mode on, they will not fight in it but spread out. So, just press put guard mode on, and you'll have hoplites in pseudo-shieldwall.

[NightStar]

Most of the time shieldwall doens't help that much at all, the only time I have used it to some effect was with Nizag Gund against the Saka. Then I used 2 Nizag in shieldwall formation to block a street against horse archers. It is harder to punch through them when they stand so tightly.

In most other situation the units will just circle them and cut them to pieces

[russia almighty]

How does SPQR pull of shieldwall ?

[Kurulham]

The Classical hoplites in tight formation actually are in the EB "pseudo-shieldwall" by default. The trick is, without guard mode on, they will not fight in it but spread out. So, just press put guard mode on, and you'll have hoplites in pseudo-shieldwall.
AHA! All right, thanks. Much sense is now made.

Going to have fun with the KH when I get home tonight!