Caesar's Wife Must Be Above Suspicion

[Lemur]

I'm really unhappy with how General Petraeus is handling his media access. First he grants an exclusive interview to Hugh Hewitt (http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/07/hewitts_interview_with_petraeu.asp) (transcript gone for 404 error land, sad to say). Hewitt is as blatant a partisan as you could ever ask for -- he makes George F. Will look like a San Franciscan. No other media outlet gets anything remotely like that interview.

Now, according to an unreliable source (http://www.drudgereport.com/): "Following their testimony to Congress, General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker will appear exclusively on FOX News Channel on Monday at 9pm EDT for a one hour live interview with Brit Hume..." So he's going from an exclusive interview with a pro-Administration right-wing extremist to the only news channel solely devoted to the welfare of the Republican party?

I don't like this at all. If Petraeus' testimony is meant to unite as much of the nation as possible behind the surge, why is this being handled like a purely Republican affair? Why forfeit any appearance of neutrality? For the sake of the general's credibility and that of our military, I want this to be handled without even the appearance of partisanship.

First I find out that Petraeus' big report is being written by the White House. Now I see that the general is being shuttled from right-wing support center to right-wing support center.

Somebody, please explain to me why this doesn't suck.

[Zaknafien]

Its as if they don't even understand what it looks like. Is MC Rove still in charge over there??

[Tribesman]

Somebody, please explain to me why this doesn't suck.

Because it blows .

[Papewaio]

The higher you go in management in the private sector the better at politics er 'sales' one must be...

I think you will find that Generals like senior executives are fairly savvy when it comes to (self-)promotion and scratching backs.

[Marshal Murat]

Petraeus is definitely greasing his way to the Presidency.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Patreus may, or may not, have had any input into the media venues selected.

Sadly, I don't think any of the other media venues would handle things any better than FOX will.

However, we can all relax in the knowledge that the respective spins have been decided; will be presented irregardless of the facts; and that nothing will change of any substance.

Tired of a frustrating career? Try American Politics -- it's easier than thinking.

[macsen rufus]

I guess if you want a standing ovation, you have to play to the right crowd (pun intended ~D)

It's not about swaying the nation at large, more about giving the "faithful" that feelgood factor.

And Seamus, there's sig potential in your post:


Tired of a frustrating career? Try American Politics -- it's easier than thinking.


:laugh4:

I can see that on a 1950s style billboard, with obligatory bored housewife, and 2.4 Chevies in the garage

[Proletariat]

I guess waiting to hear what he says is way down on the list of what matters. I'd just shoot myself if I was Petraeus. Talk about a lose lose situation. On Thursday and Friday of last week all I saw in the headlines about him was 'Dems bash Petraeus report' and NPR slamming him for being a Republican shill.

Newsflash; Everyone In The World Has Already Decided What To Think About This. If he says the troop surge has made big progress, the Republicans will sing the Team America theme song and the Democrats will wail and gnash their teeth. I really don't think the venue it first appears on matters.

[Xiahou]

Newsflash; Everyone In The World Has Already Decided What To Think About This.:yes:

The Democrats showed some initial confusion over the reported military progress in Iraq, but have since decided it's a myth and anyone who says otherwise is a Bush shill. They assume that Petreus is, for some reason, shilling an unpopular war, at the expense of the troops under his command, for an unpopular president who will shortly be out of office.

As to the OP, I don't have the time to search all the other news outlets, but I'd be frankly surprised if Petreus doesn't show up at several more of them following his testimony. I find "exclusive" doesn't generally mean what you think it means when it comes to the news media.

Edit: Hugh Hewitt actually had a great interview with John Burns that I had linked in a previous thread. It was a fascinating read.

[Lemur]

Newsflash; Everyone In The World Has Already Decided What To Think About This.
So all minds are made up, which means there's no point in even pretending to persuade? So it's fine and dandy to use Petraeus as catnip for the base and little else?

[Proletariat]

To the people who are angry about the 'media access' (I guess you, in this case), do you think there is anything about Petraeus' report that won't piss them off?

FWIW, I don't care about Petraeus one way or the other. I'm agreeing more and more with the left that says 'Screw this, we're going home.' No amount of success brought about by a troop surge matters if the idiot politicians in Iraq can't cease their dysfunction.

But threads like 'Oh well just look at what this guy's gone and done! An exclusive interview with this right winger coupled with a release on Right Wing R Us network' is just as muck-rakingly partisan as anything else.


So all minds are made up, which means there's no point in even pretending to persuade? So it's fine and dandy to use Petraeus as catnip for the base and little else?

1) Absolutely. No one changes their mind on Iraq. You either wanna see it all the way through, you've had enough of it because you feel deceived and the cost/benefit isn't strong enough, or you don't give a damn. But no one actually shifts on this issue.

2) If he makes the base happy as a kitty with catnip, lucky them. It'd be the most significant thing he could do for anyone at this point.

[Lemur]

But threads like 'Oh well just look at what this guy's gone and done! An exclusive interview with this right winger coupled with a release on Right Wing R Us network' is just as muck-rakingly partisan as anything else.
This is getting a little loopy. Wanting him to at least attempt to appear non-partisan ... is partisan. Not wanting him to restrict his access to partisan news outlets ... is partisan.

I have gone through the looking glass.

[Xiahou]

2) If he makes the base happy as a kitty with catnip, lucky them. It'd be the most significant thing he could do for anyone at this point.That's really an excellent point.

Practically speaking, the Democrat leadership has completely made up it's mind- talking to them is pointless. If Petreus actually believes he's making some headway in Iraq, the best thing he could possibly do is shore up support among Republicans and the few Democrats who have been supportive of the war effort. That alone should be enough to buy him more time.

[Proletariat]

This is getting a little loopy. Wanting him to at least attempt to appear non-partisan ... is partisan. Not wanting him to restrict his access to partisan news outlets ... is partisan.

I have gone through the looking glass.

Sorry if I'm coming across as rather snide, but yes, I do think so. This shifts the conversation from the actual report to what tv channel it comes out on. Now the conversation is about FNC and Hewitt, forget the report.

:balloon2:

[CrossLOPER]

So how many fewer Iraqi body parts did someone have to clean up last month?

[Lemur]

Practically speaking, the Democrat leadership has completely made up it's mind- talking to them is pointless.
There are a lot more Americans than there are Nancy Pelosis. And a vast swath of them (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/08/AR2007090801777.html?hpid=topnews) are unhappy with how this is being handled.


Most Democrats and independents also agreed that, regardless of the report's findings, Bush will not adjust his administration's Iraq policy. Even Republicans were closely divided about whether the president will use the occasion to make a shift (47 percent) or stick with his policies (44 percent).

I'm sorry if talking about how Petraeus is handling his media seems like a dodge or a distraction to you, Prole, but I'm not raising the issue to be cute. I had muted hopes that Petraeus would, somehow, bring some unity and realism to the table. The fact that he's being used to shore up the base, and nothing else, is distressing.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You're being awfully hard on the fellow considering he hasn't given the report yet.

You are using his media appointments to dismiss his report.

CR

[Lemur]

You're being awfully hard on the fellow considering he hasn't given the report yet.

You are using his media appointments to dismiss his report.
I am not dismissing him, but I am irritated. The report was already written weeks ago. The president has read it, and has admitted so. Petraeus knows what's in it, and has said so. The whole thing smacks of a really hyped-up introduction of a new iPod.

I'm sorry it seems so outlandish and unreasonable to want Petraeus to use his moment in the sun to be credible and unifying. I know people's positions on Iraq are hardened. I know there's a lot of cynicism making the rounds. All the more reason for our military leaders to rise (as much as they are able) above the fray, and give us something of substance to chew on.

I find it absurd that, once again, only the Republican base is being approached and wooed. I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. There's a very good reason that this administration polls lower with independents than with Democrats.

[Devastatin Dave]

I find it absurd that, once again, only the Republican base is being approached and wooed. I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. There's a very good reason that this administration polls lower with independents than with Democrats.
And you are about as "independent" as Howard Dean. But anyhoo, you obviously have no bias especially with a thread title of "Caesar's Wife Must Be Above Suspicion". Yup, that's "fair and balanced"!!!! Come on, do actually expect us tho think this report would change your mind or that of other "non partisan independents"? LOL:laugh4:

[Geoffrey S]

Pretty much all future Democrat candidates present a policy of withdrawal, and most of their electorate support them in that; they're not going to be swayed by the report to stick in Iraq. If Petraeus truly believes the surge is working then why would he try to appeal to them? The best point has been made, namely that all he can do if he really wants to keep doing what he's doing now is make sure the GOP keeps up support. If he can sway the Republican electorate on the issue by appearing on such channels as Fox policymakers will gladly follow.

[Adrian II]

Somebody, please explain to me why this doesn't suck.
Because it blows. :laugh4:

[Lemur]

And you are about as "independent" as Howard Dean. But anyhoo, you obviously have no bias especially with a thread title of "Caesar's Wife Must Be Above Suspicion". Yup, that's "fair and balanced"!!!! Come on, do actually expect us tho think this report would change your mind or that of other "non partisan independents"? LOL:laugh4:
So a general is being used strictly to speak to Republicans, which needlessly politicizes our military, and you think the thread title is irrelevant?

Well, the consensus seems to be that this is a purely Republican base affair, and that's fine and dandy. 'Nuff said, then.

[Proletariat]

So a general is being used strictly to speak to Republicans, which needlessly politicizes our military, and you think the thread title is irrelevant?

C'mon, Lemur.. That's a little hyperbolic. It's not like only card carrying Republicans are given the secret password to access the report. I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill. If anything, I'd say it's merely embarrassing that this is happening, but not some subversive political scheme.

[Lemur]

Prole, you may not be aware of this, but I have a Free Use of Hyperbole card that I whip out when responding to DevDave.

[Proletariat]

I'm trying my best to curb my usage of the FUH card myself, but I'm only succeeding here and there.

:computer:

[Devastatin Dave]

Prole, you may not be aware of this, but I have a Free Use of Hyperbole card that I whip out when responding to DevDave.
Feel free to "whip it out" anytime, Big Boy...:yes: ~:flirt:

[Lemur]

I guess this (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/washington/10poll.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin) is why I hoped for a less blatantly partisan approach to the September report:


Only 5 percent of Americans — a strikingly low number for a sitting president’s handling of such a dominant issue — said they most trusted the Bush administration to resolve the war, the poll found. Asked to choose among the administration, Congress and military commanders, 21 percent said they would most trust Congress and 68 percent expressed most trust in military commanders.

That is almost certainly why the White House has presented General Petraeus and Mr. Crocker as unbiased professionals, not Bush partisans. President Bush has said for years that decisions about force levels should be left to military commanders.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

C'mon, Lemur.. That's a little hyperbolic. It's not like only card carrying Republicans are given the secret password to access the report. I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill. If anything, I'd say it's merely embarrassing that this is happening, but not some subversive political scheme.

I sort of agree with this. Well I guess I agree more with the general intent of the post as I understand it than the exact details of it. I think it's fairly idiotic that Petraeus is giving an exclusive interview to Fox rather than making the normal rounds. I don't even care if he goes to Fox first as I think that would be fairly irrelevant. I don't think Bush and his minions are capable of a conspiracy at this point, I think they just don't give a damn if the only people who support them are some members of their base. As far as I can tell they never really tried to be bipartisan and this is possibly yet another symptom of their general attitude towards bipartisan action.

[Devastatin Dave]

I think it's fairly idiotic that Petraeus is giving an exclusive interview to Fox rather than making the normal rounds. .
Yes, he needs to go on the View, Oprah, and Letterman. Possibly the Daily Show would be a great place to go.:laugh4:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What would satisfy most of the "doubting Thomases:"

Provide the full report a month in advance to a panel of experts chosen exclusively from individuals demonstrably known to oppose the current policy in Iraq and have them grill the General for several days from a perspective of opposition (hermeneutics of suspicion), under oath, and with a polygraph and skilled operater present.

Note 1: This could likely be viewed as a direct assault upon the General's personal honor.

Note 2: This would still do nothing in terms of bringing opposition members into agreement with Patreus' assessments and predictions and could only (possibly) confirm that he believed himself to be telling the truth and that his information was correct.


What will happen: Political theatre, exit reviews already published and ready for the Primary campaign.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yes, he needs to go on the View, Oprah, and Letterman. Possibly the Daily Show would be a great place to go.:laugh4:

Aww come on Dave what have I ever done to you?!?:dizzy2:

No I think he should give a few interviews to other media outlets, for example CNN, NBC and basically anything other than Fox. Giving Fox, or any other company, a monopoly on reporting an event other than a sports broadcast is just asking for cries of political pandering.

Though I would love to see that episode of the Daily Show....

[CrossLOPER]

Yes, he needs to go on the View, Oprah, and Letterman. Possibly the Daily Show would be a great place to go.:laugh4:
Are you suggesting that Fox News is the most suited to, alone, hold a fair and balanced interview on this matter?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Links to full text of the General's testimony:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5735.html

Link to the accompanying graphs and charts:
http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM43_general_petraeus_testimony_slides10_september_2007.pdf

Interestingly enough, in his testimony the general says he himself wrote the report.

The overall report is that of good progress militarily: less violence, more weapon seizures.

CR

[Don Corleone]

Prole nailed it in her first post. Those opposed to the war will continue to oppose it, those who support it will continue to support it. Those with nuanced views will continue to check the sky or the sidewalk for some grain of wisdom. I never understood the hooplah about the report. Surely the White House knew nobody who disagreed with them was going to believe the word of the commander of troops on the scene.

[Papewaio]

Democracy requires an informed voter base.
Iraq war is a very important part of the US political landscape.
Surely the information should be available to as much of the voter base as possible.
So surely it should be on as much media as possible so that the voters can make an informed choice come the elections.
Then again I have an antiquated ideas of what a citizen should do...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Democracy requires an informed voter base.
Iraq war is a very important part of the US political landscape.
Surely the information should be available to as much of the voter base as possible.
So surely it should be on as much media as possible so that the voters can make an informed choice come the elections.
Then again I have an antiquated ideas of what a citizen should do...

You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think.....

On the whole, most of my fellow yanks actively choose political ignorance, some of them putting a measureable amount of effort into doing so. Sadly, a reasonably large slice of this auto-decerebrated lot make a point of voting. We truly do obtain the leadership we deserve I fear.

Please note, my first line was meant in jest. Any prostitutes reading this will not, I hope, take offense. After all, most prostitutes actually provide the stated service for the stated price -- which is a considerably better performance then we all too often receive from our elected leaders.

[Papewaio]

I suppose it's better for the economy if we elect them rather then employ them as CEO's...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I suppose it's better for the economy if we elect them rather then employ them as CEO's...

Are you referring to the politicians....or to the whores? :devilish:

[Papewaio]

Politicians to be specific.

Politicians are to whores as squares are to rectangles. :laugh4:

[Zaknafien]

well, it looks like at least I will be able to go to Iraq for my full 15-month deployment this winter so I can make alot of money. That's the plus side of the whole neocon eternal war strategy, at least. :)

[Devastatin Dave]

well, it looks like at least I will be able to go to Iraq for my full 15-month deployment this winter so I can make alot of money. That's the plus side of the whole neocon eternal war strategy, at least. :)
If its so evil, then why are you participating?

[Blodrast]

If its so evil, then why are you participating?

I'm not speaking on his behalf, but this is a more general question, that applies in several contexts: it's simple:

Administration/government of a country != (people of a) country

The fact that one dislikes the gov't of a country does not (as this administration has been trying to convince everybody) make one unpatriotic.
The fact that one dislikes the gov't of a country does not mean that one dislikes the people of the country. Especially not in these days, when the politicians are sooo disconnected from the people and from what the people really want (and this is valid everywhere, not just in the US).

[AntiochusIII]

Blodrast: Scratch "these days." It's "since Gilgamesh was King."

Lemur: You are being incredibly hopeful if you hope that General Petraeus would suddenly step up into the spotlight, gives an inspiring bipartisan speech, telling all the truths despite biased media objections and screams of abject terror from Ann Coulter and Howard Dean, and unite the country's resolve to go through with a reasonable effective military plan he has concocted to solve the unsolvable problem of Iraq. :dizzy2:

I don't know what is in Petraeus' head or what happens in the backroom so I can't say for sure if he's at fault or not, but everyone else sure is. Including us, who are either cynical or partisan, or worse. We make that miracle all but impossible.

From this handling I can see two scenarios:

1) It's Bush's fault. Or someone in his Administration anyway. They yet again ignore all calls for attempted unity in exchange for partisan pandering that has characterized the reign of that scumbag Karl Rove since antiquity. Petraeus is either forced to choose said partisan media outlets or just couldn't care less since his real job's in Iraq anyway, and who ever cares about American media? Them and Britney Spears are inseparable anyway.

2) Petraeus recognizes that he has little time to waste with the media wrangling in the USA and chooses to go the partisan route himself to gather as much support as possible for whatever he's planning. It's pointless after all to go after Democrat partisans' support or even independents' so what the hell. A General's job is not to be popular after all but to win the goddam war somehow. Note that his motive might not be as clean as "winning the war" and could be something less selflessly patriotic.

I myself find it amusing that everyone's making such a big deal of yet another chapter of We Won't Change Our Minds, the Soap Opera.

[seireikhaan]

Tired of a frustrating career? Try American Politics -- it's easier than thinking.
:laugh4: Mind if I sig this, Seamus?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

:laugh4: Mind if I sig this, Seamus?

Not at all.