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phoenix[illusion]
09-11-2007, 15:55
This thread is made for discussion of mod. Please tell us what you like about it, what you don't like. Tell us what to do next, or just encourage us!:smash:

Tsar
09-11-2007, 23:56
:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: OK guys, heat up machines and be prepared for :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:
:knight:TSARDOMS:knight:

There are some things that I would like to see in the Mod
1.Map:
To be historically correct
To have lots of details(forests, rivers, mountains, isles, trade routes...)
2.Factions:
Unique units with unique descriptions
Historical Character Names
Unit roster increased
3.Mercenaries:
Mercenaries to have more experience
Greater mercenary variety
Regions have more of mercenary special units
4.A1:
Proper Mix of Infantry, Missiles, Cavalry and Artillery
AI to produces more Elite and Heavy units
:eyebrows:

phoenix[illusion]
09-12-2007, 05:53
Here's one information. We'll make two campaign, first will be balkan, second east europe, but that will be later.

Avitohol
09-12-2007, 14:01
could you pls post some screenshots from the mod and discription of the units (for example Serbian gussars or Bulgarian Tsar guard how much are their attack defence charge what are their special abilities). And is there much work still to be done around the mod because i`m very happy that someone finally added the balkan countries to MTW II and i can`t wait to play it !

phoenix[illusion]
09-12-2007, 15:22
Thanks man! Soon we'll post our first preview, that will be preview of serbian units. Bulgarian units will be in second preview!

King Orko
09-13-2007, 06:50
I think you should add Bosnia(later became important and was indipendent) adn wallachia(it is one of the "must have" factions), and another crusader country should be Athens. don't you think it would be better?

phoenix[illusion]
09-13-2007, 14:04
That for Athens is ok, but Bosnia and Wallachia were under Hungary.

Vla_86
09-13-2007, 15:44
']That for Athens is ok, but Bosnia and Wallachia were under Hungary.



If this mod starts at year 1345,I wouldn't quite agree,that Wallachia was under Hungarian rule.I think,the victory by Basarab I over Hungarian king Charles Robert gave independence to Wallachia in year 1330. I am talking about the Battle of Posada.Charles Robert conquered Banat of Severin,but his army was totally destroyed at Lovistea on the way back through Carpatians.It would be nice to see Wallachia in the game,as they were resisting the Turks for the long time in East Europe.

matko
09-13-2007, 16:21
Wallachia is in ! this is official now. we are all looking forward to making this interesting faction, but wee need all historical info we can get.

phoenix[illusion]
09-13-2007, 19:39
If anyone is interested to be our Historian, Coder or Contributor can join us!

Pvt.Leka
09-14-2007, 00:12
Where is that preview with serbian units :inquisitive:

matko
09-14-2007, 09:46
Where is that preview with serbian units :inquisitive:
not finished yet. but we are working hard.

Milos98
09-14-2007, 16:49
Is this some kind of recreation of Ftw?

matko
09-14-2007, 17:25
Is this some kind of recreation of Ftw?
yes.

Milos98
09-14-2007, 17:52
I love the idea, I was sure that the FTW wouldnt make it :thumbsdown: ,...
The map(map (https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5839/eurse1340bld6.gif)) is going to be concetrated on balkans (and 8000 km radious), right?
I saw a map from some mod (I think that it was alpacas), where Italy was gigantic, So if you enlarge map to 510x227, it should be pretty good. I would love to se balkan with more than 50 settlements on it. And I also suggest adding some austrian faction (Habsburg), on the western empty space.

matko
09-14-2007, 20:36
well ftw was a good idea but a bit to ambitious.
wee need to take one step at the time. Balkan is of course first step, thn eastern Europe and after that who knows....

faction list is not final. i strongly support inclusion of Hapsburg (HRE) and Kamaran (muslim, turkish).

LegioScythia
09-15-2007, 19:18
Will the mongols be present to ? Since according to the map, some of those territories were controlled by the golden horde during that time.

phoenix[illusion]
09-15-2007, 19:33
Hm, if somebody wants to help, please join us, and be our contributor
Contact me on msn: phoenix-vision@hotmail.com

Sarmatian
09-17-2007, 01:28
well ftw was a good idea but a bit to ambitious.
wee need to take one step at the time. Balkan is of course first step, thn eastern Europe and after that who knows....

faction list is not final. i strongly support inclusion of Hapsburg (HRE) and Kamaran (muslim, turkish).

I agree with Karaman, we need another muslim faction.

I'm not so sure about Hapsburgs... It was a long time after 1345 that they started to have any real influence in the Balkans and Asia Minor...

matko
09-17-2007, 10:37
Hapsburg can be non-playable. i just think than for balance it is good to have a faction north of Hungary. or hung can become too strong. so indirectly they did have an influence, because hungarian kings spent lots of time effort and money on their rivality with hapb.

King Orko
09-17-2007, 13:45
I think the map should be much smaller.

Vla_86
09-17-2007, 16:34
I think Karaman should be added as a another muslim faction.Just for balance in Asia Minor.This mod starts at year 1345,and Karaman was a important state at that time.Karaman was founded in the middle of 13th century and fell to Ottomans in late 15the century.Just like Matko said for Hungary on the north,I think Ottomans could be become too strong in early period in Asia Minor and make a real mess in Balkans :furious3: .Thrue expansion of Ottomans begins in second half of 15th century.

Sarmatian
09-18-2007, 00:18
Thrue expansion of Ottomans begins in second half of 15th century.

Not entirely true. Before Constantinople fell (1453), Ottoman Empire was the chief power both in Asia Minor and Balkans...

Concerning them making mess in the Balkans - well that's what happened historicaly.

Sarmatian
09-18-2007, 00:27
If our esteemed leader agrees, I propose adding Karaman and Bosnia as new factions and then we should finalize our faction list so that we can actualy start working...

I still have mixed feelings about Hapsburgs. If we are just gonna put them as a counterweight to Hungary, we could just as well put Genoa as a counterweight to Venice. But the fact still stands that neither had any real influence in this part of the world in mod's timeframe...

Tsar
09-18-2007, 01:03
I am against to add Bosnia as a faction, because that will put Serbia in very difficult situation. There will be no rebels provinces to expand and if you consider very strong Hungary on the north, Bulgaria on the east and Ottomans coming from the south. Will be very hard to play as a Serbia:no:

Sarmatian
09-18-2007, 03:38
I am against to add Bosnia as a faction, because that will put Serbia in very difficult situation. There will be no rebels provinces to expand and if you consider very strong Hungary on the north, Bulgaria on the east and Ottomans coming from the south. Will be very hard to play as a Serbia:no:

That's not a good reason not to include Bosnia. Rebels should only be used to fill up empty spots.

And anyway, in 1345, the only real Serbian rival in the penninsula was Hungary and Ottoman Sultanate. Bulgaria and Bosnia were in no shape to challenge Serbia's dominance, which should make playing those factions extremely interesting.

matko
09-18-2007, 13:29
and the Bosnian heretic Krstjani would really make situation interesting. he he
we should enable crusades for Hungary to deal with the heretics (Krstjani), schismatics (Orthodox) and infidels (Muslims). he he.
remember that in Hungary at that time idea of a holy war still could raise masses (Nicopolis, siege of Belgrade and numerous attacks on Bosnia were justified as a defense of the "only true faith"). most of there "crusades" were unsuccessful but they were an important factor.

phoenix[illusion]
09-18-2007, 13:47
hehe, that's great matko, really great. I'm thinking about making Bosnia as faction, but under protectoration of Hungary

matko
09-18-2007, 14:47
']hehe, that's great matko, really great. I'm thinking about making Bosnia as faction, but under protectoration of Hungary

can it be coded that they start as vassal?

and another question - for coders - would it be a good idea (and can it be coded) to make a rebellion after faction leader dies (lets say that we make a 60% or 70% chance that after faction leaders die a stack or 2 of rebel armies spawn in your land to simulate the instability of states back then and feudal anarchy - remember what happened to Serbia and Hungary after 2 great kings -Ludovik and Dusan - died)

phoenix[illusion]
09-18-2007, 14:54
Hm, that is possible I think, but we need someone who is good with traits/ancillaries

Sarmatian
09-18-2007, 15:54
can it be coded that they start as vassal?

My thoughts exactly



and another question - for coders - would it be a good idea (and can it be coded) to make a rebellion after faction leader dies (lets say that we make a 60% or 70% chance that after faction leaders die a stack or 2 of rebel armies spawn in your land to simulate the instability of states back then and feudal anarchy - remember what happened to Serbia and Hungary after 2 great kings -Ludovik and Dusan - died)

Good idea, but I doubt it can be implemented properly.

Tsar
09-18-2007, 23:51
If you think that Bosnia should be in what religion should be official: catholic or orthodox?

matko
09-19-2007, 10:33
If you think that Bosnia should be in what religion should be official: catholic or orthodox?

Bosnian kings were "officially" catholic, but "unofficially" supported krstjani. how about making new religion for bosnia ? Crkva Bosanska (:egypt: ) were considered as heretic by both Pope and SPC (srpska pravoslavna).

Vla_86
09-19-2007, 23:42
Bosnian kings were "officially" catholic, but "unofficially" supported krstjani. how about making new religion for bosnia ? Crkva Bosanska (:egypt: ) were considered as heretic by both Pope and SPC (srpska pravoslavna).


This is very hard to explain.All three curches were present in Bosnia in 14th century (Serbian Orthodox,Roman Catolic and Bogumils).I think,there could be no official religion,if you decide to make Bosnia as faction(by the way,I am against making Bosnia as faction).Bosnian church lasted for a short time and never had a proper influence.Later on,bogumils accepted Islam or other Christian religions.Today you have living proofs of Catolic and Orthodox churches in Bosnia,built in medieval period and bogumils were considered as heretic..So,why should you put them in the game?I think,this could only make trouble for the coders,who are working on this mod.

Tsar
09-20-2007, 01:31
Bosnian kings were "officially" catholic, but "unofficially" supported krstjani. how about making new religion for bosnia ? Crkva Bosanska (:egypt: ) were considered as heretic by both Pope and SPC (srpska pravoslavna).
You see Matko, I ask this because, this will be another thing why not include Bosnia. You said "catholic":inquisitive: If bosnian king accept to be catholic (politics and power) that doesn't mean that BIG majority of the population did same.:thumbsdown: And I think that wouldn't be fair that we have two serbian factions(Tsardom of Serbia and Kingdom of Bosnia)

read this:
SREDNJOVEKOVNA "BOSANSKA CRKVA" BILA JE PRAVOSLAVNA
NAPISAO
DR VASO GLUŠAC. (http://members.tripod.com/cafehome/vg4350_l.htm)

Serb Land of Bosnia (http://members.tripod.com/cafehome/serbdom-eng.htm#Ninoslav)

matko
09-20-2007, 10:36
This is very hard to explain.All three curches were present in Bosnia in 14th century (Serbian Orthodox,Roman Catolic and Bogumils).I think,there could be no official religion,if you decide to make Bosnia as faction(by the way,I am against making Bosnia as faction).Bosnian church lasted for a short time and never had a proper influence.Later on,bogumils accepted Islam or other Christian religions.Today you have living proofs of Catolic and Orthodox churches in Bosnia,built in medieval period and bogumils were considered as heretic..So,why should you put them in the game?I think,this could only make trouble for the coders,who are working on this mod.

Bosnian church (Crkva Bosanska) appeared at the time of ban Kulin and ceased to exist somewhere after 15 century. so it is present during whole time Bosnian state existed. in fact this is one of unique features that the state. and dont call them bogumils, in fact they didnt have much in common with bogumil heresy in bulgaria. they called themselves Krstjani, so should we also call them that name.

- why problems for coders? - there are already heretics in game. and my opinion is that they should be made as a heretic state. if that is possible (we will have to ask coders).
if it is not possible then we can make a that king is catholic (and Stjepan Kotromanic was) and population is mixed catholic-orthodox with lot of heretics (unfortunately none has a clue how many percent which church -we can even make compromise 33% C, 33% O, 33% heretic). but Bosnian kingdom will have more than one province and that means that we can make very detailed religious composition. central province the - Central Bosnia - is mostly heretic, any province eastern ans south of it will have a large procent of orthodox, and western and northern province will have lots of catholics. so i don't see where is the problem.
and we could make nice traits for kings - like - "secret heretic", or "heretic supporter", or even - "sympathy for orthodox church" - that will lower piety.

To Tsar:

i wouldnt call Bosnia a "Serbian state". id prefer neutral term "south Slavic".
but please NO POLITICS in this mod (or we will have an mini war here because some people consider Bosnia as Croatian land, and some prefer some other ideas (Bosnian nation :egypt: )... so please i dont want a discussion about origin of Bosnian state and people here. There were some really nasty fights on TWC and other forums about this subject. so i beg you, this is not the place or the time.

it cannot be proved that Bosnian church (Krstjani) were orthodox (actually nothing can be proved - not enough sources from period).
only thing we are certain is that they were considered to be heretics by whole world.

and even if we accept a hypothetical situation that B is a "Serbian state" i dont see how is this unfair- there were 4 "italian" factions in vanilla (Pope, Venice, Milan, Sicily).
and political fragmentation is one of Balkan specialties

We re here to make a historically realistic mod ! that means everyone gets the same (equal) treatment. no privileges. and Bosnian kingdom existed at the time mod starts and lasts longer than Serbian Tsardom/Despotate.

PS.
And one more thing - there wont be a "Bosnian kingdom" - but "Banate of Bosnia" - Tvrtko was the first king and mod starts before he was crowned. so we will have Bans not kings.

Vla_86
09-20-2007, 20:07
I like the suggestion about making a compromise for religions.That would be the best.I really would not like to argue about the origin of Bosnian state.And I saw,what happened on TWC..That was really bad :thumbsdown: I was born in Bosnia ( near Banja Luka ) and I have heard thousand of versions about Bosnian origin,and to whom this land belongs.I agree..We do not need politics here,that's not our problem :yes:

matko
09-20-2007, 20:55
and it is just how the game starts. you can change everything. if you play as Serbia, you can raise an army, conquer Bosnia and make it 95% orthodox if you wish. this is what the game is really about. changing the region, making an empire !

Sarmatian
09-21-2007, 00:05
and it is just how the game starts. you can change everything. if you play as Serbia, you can raise an army, conquer Bosnia and make it 95% orthodox if you wish. this is what the game is really about. changing the region, making an empire !

... And hope that Venice doesn't make you stop, as happened historically :laugh4: :book:

Vazul's Ghost
09-21-2007, 07:40
Hurray! Feudalism Total war returns!!!!!!

Milos98
09-21-2007, 19:41
Im not sure about the idea of adding bosnia,... we could add croatia as vassal faction to hungary. But bosnia as a faction? If we added a heretic faction (bogumils) named bosnia, it wouldnt be historically correct. In that case we should consider ading Dubrovnik faction. But I doubt that either of those two factions could EVER control the whole balkans.
So to make myself short; im against adding Bosnia as a faction.

King Orko
09-21-2007, 20:21
Bosnia is a good idea for a faction
BTW what about that:
if you conquer a certain amount of provinces you can be a tsar/emperor?

Milos98
09-21-2007, 20:44
If we want Bosnia in TTW, We should consider adding Zeta faction, Zahumlje faction (Herzegovina), Dubrovnik faction and some others. They all have common chance of conquering Balkans. We cant be selective if we want HISTORICAL mod.

PS Matko, there is no historically correct compromise.

King Orko
09-21-2007, 21:46
If we want Bosnia in TTW, We should consider adding Zeta faction, Zahumlje faction (Herzegovina), Dubrovnik faction and some others. They all have common chance of conquering Balkans. We cant be selective if we want HISTORICAL mod.

PS Matko, there is no historically correct compromise.
Bosnia was WEIGH more important than these factions.

Milos98
09-21-2007, 22:29
Bosnia was WEIGH more important than these factions.
Important doesent mean military strong, unified ,...etc
Christian majority surely wouldnt allow public heretic ruler to rule, and bosnia was a part of Hungary,...OK if you dont understand what do I want to say, I will put it this way; You cant make todays BIH attack for example serbia, or croatia. But you can make a PART of bosnia attack serbia or croatia, but about the consequences...I dont want to speak about. The same thing was back in 14 cent.
You know what I mean:inquisitive: .
We could make them as a faction, but consider that as a nonhistoricall mod,

I need some air...

matko
09-21-2007, 22:48
there is no Zeta or Hum in 1345. there even isn't Croatia in 1345. "Problem" with Dubrovnik is that they were never interested in expansion and didn't have much army. But Bosnian state was interested in expansion in every direction, and Stjepan II Kotromanic and Tvrtko doubled its territory. Stjepan II captured Završje and Krajina (between Cetina and Ston).Tvrtko conquered all Dalmatia from Zadar (including castles - Knin, Ostrovica, Klis ; cities Split, Trogir, Šibenik and islands Hvar, Brač - they even possessed navy !) to Ston.
And Crossed Drina river (and had controll over Podrinje and Milesevo) and proclaimed himself a king of the Serbs. So Tvrtko had some intentions to rule at least a part of Serbia. He died too early. What if he didn't ?

Bosnia at least in this part of their history played important part. And they showed that they had the ambition to want more.

In Croatia (Tvrtko also proclaimed himself to be king of Croatia and Dalmatia - his mother was from Šubić family and he wanted their legacy) T. supported rebellion against Sigismund of Luxembourg - which almost succeed - Sigismund and his army in the end didn't managed to defeat Bosnians until Tvrtko's death. His main (Tvrtko's) ally and later commander of one of his armies was Ivan de Palina (od Paližne -one who led detachment of hospitallers in the battle of Kosovo -under command of Vlatko Vuković) who was at the same time prior of Vrana (fortress near Zadar) and commander of knights Hospitallers in Croatia. -What ?- we have a knight of Order of Saint John of Jerusalem leading an army from a heretic land - and hospitallers in Bosnian army ???
-isn't that too interesting to be left out ? complex - yes but that is the point !!

Are you all afraid that your Tsardom is going to be overshadowed by Bosnian Banate? Don't you like a little challenge ?

and to remind you that this is the best illumination of an knight in full armor in
whole region.... enjoy - this if what historians call - a first class source.
https://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1231/dsc007051fx8.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
-------

PS. im not from Bosnia, and no one from my family is from there.
PPS. if you really want to add Croatia go ahead

TO MILOS - unified - which feudal state in 14 century was unified ?? France ? Holy Roman Empire ?
Byzant ? - it is time of civil wars in Byzant - pretenders to the throne slaughtering each other (Kantakouzenos (allied to Turks) against John V Palaiologos ) - so we should left them out ?

Bosnia was unified as a country could be at the time - it had a king, an army, a currency, laws ....
Bosnian people had 3 different religions, so what ?

"part of Bosnia" - you mean mighty feudal lords acting on their own ? again you name a country in Europe that didn't have them in 14 century. if you are interested were there any civil wars in Bosnia in 14 century - YES - but not people vs people but pretenders to the throne and feudal lords vs each other. But this happened in all countries!

"nonhistorical" . WHY ? where is the problem ? A country with Catholic king and its population divided in three different faiths - why is that unhistorical ?



I'm worried -what do they teach you all in schools about middle ages in Balkan ?

Vazul's Ghost
09-22-2007, 01:41
I don't know much about the history of Bosnia, and i don't want to offend anyone by saying this but; a heretical faction would be EXTREMELY interesting and unique. I haven't seen a single other mod that has such a thing, and since Bosnia would be a relatively small faction if it is included, then it would have its own uniqueness to it if it was heretical. besides if it hails to its own religion you wouldn't have to worry about it being too much of a threat to the surrounding factions, who would all have a different religion to it and thus make it harder for bosnia to control its people. On the other hand, if your going for extreme historical accuracy then i guess it sounds like bosnia should be excluded, do what you judge best i just thought i'd voice my opinion.

matko
09-22-2007, 01:56
if we go to extreme historical accuracy than Bosnia has to be in. But in this case king will be catholic and most of his followers not.

TO OTHERS MOD MEMBERS. Most of us is from x-yugoslavia. my english is not so good. so to prevent any future misunderstandings we could discuss this in our language inside dev forum. I will make a new thread about bosnia tomorrow. then we can in peace make our arguments. and I will draw a map of bosnian state with provinces (i neznam kako da ovo na engleskom kazem - bit ce na mapi za svaku provinciju postoci koliko ljudu pripada kojoj vjeri - kad sve izvedemo na cistac vidjet cete da se sve mozemo dogovoriti).

Milos98
09-22-2007, 08:51
1. Sorry for my bad english
2. You cant compare "The mighty banate of Bosnia" to "weak bizantium", and to France... :beam:
3. Who said that I WANT to add croatia ?
4.
Are you all afraid that your Tsardom is going to be overshadowed by Bosnian Banate? Don't you like a little challenge ?


If we add bosnia, the gameplay will be better im sure of that, but still, we can make even bigger challange and say
Are you all afraid that your Tsardom is going do be totally destroyed by some dubrovnik city?

I think my question has more challenge.

5.Matko, you talk so much that I cant understand anymore, what do you want. Do you want faction "banat of bosnia" with bosniak population with catholic religion, or you want "kingdom of bosnia" (Tvrtko became a king in 1377 year ) with sheep population and heretic religion. Do you want bosnia to be vassal to Hungary or not? You want bosnia to have Hospitallers ?

6.So you want to say that Tvrtko would attack serbia if he lived long enough and had a chance? That is true, but why didnt he reinforce Vlatko Vukovics army and he could instead helping serbs on Kosovo, conquer Serbia, I think that would be a great chance.
He died in 1391, right? So he had a chance to attack weakend Serbia.
There can be only two reasons for it;
He wasnt military strong or
He didnt want to conquer Serbian lands. He went conquering (1391) Split, Trogir, Šibenik,... like you said.
I know that they hade solid military and won some battles against hungary, but we are talking about year 1345.

Yes, I know, he would surely attack serbia, if he lived some years more, but it would be a catastrophy. The Turks would "cut his head of and spit on his neck :beam: ". If Tsar Dusan lived few years more, he would conquer vienna and constantinople.


7.Dubrovnik


"Problem" with Dubrovnik is that they were never interested in expansion and didn't have much army.

Yes, but we can allow player to decide if he likes expansion of Dubrovnik, can we?
OK, lets forget Dubrovnik, im not going to mention it anymore.

8.
"part of Bosnia" - you mean mighty feudal lords acting on their own ? again you name a country in Europe that didn't have them in 14 century. if you are interested were there any civil wars in Bosnia in 14 century - YES - but not people vs people but pretenders to the throne and feudal lords vs each other. But this happened in all countries!


In the case if we add bosnia, I suggest that (if it is possible), to allow player to choose wich religion bosnia will be, (like in RTW:BI) and for example if you choose heretic, there would be rebelion from christian side, and opposite.


History about middle ages in Balkan are different in serbian, bosnian and croatian schools, I think you could learn that by now.

I dont want to argue about it any more, if the team chooses to add bosnia, I will have to add it.

matko
09-22-2007, 13:21
1. my englis isnt perfect either
2. that was not the point.
3.then dont
4.dubrovnik as a faction. actually that could be a good idea. IF you can make their diplomacy to be very peaceful and defensive. so they are interested in diplomacy and trade.
5.yes i talk much. in 1345 Bosnia is a Banate (Banovina), officially Catholic but large procent of population are Krstjani. and the king is actually very friendly to heretics. B is a Hungarian vassal.
6.we will newer know what would happened. Balkan kings and tsars have tendency to die too early.
7. same as 4
8."In the case if we add bosnia, I suggest that (if it is possible), to allow player to choose which religion bosnia will be, (like in RTW:BI) and for example if you choose heretic, there would be rebellion from christian side, and opposite."
- if you can make that it would be great

Vla_86
09-22-2007, 19:01
This disussion about Bosnia lasts more then 5 days.So,are you gonna tell me..What's the final decision? Are we going to have Bosnia as faction or not???

King Orko
09-22-2007, 19:32
This disussion about Bosnia lasts more then 5 days.So,are you gonna tell me..What's the final decision? Are we going to have Bosnia as faction or not???
it depends when Phoenix is here.
I don't see hin recantly.
but he sent me a PM yesterday.

Sarmatian
09-22-2007, 19:53
Well, I am all for inclusion of Bosnia. We have to debate among ourselves some more, but 99% Bosnia will be in.

Even if we put aside the fact that Bosnia was pretty expansive in that time period, we need a faction on west of Serbia to limit early Serbian expansion west. Bosnia being a vassal of Hungary will make this even harder. In 1345. Balkan isn't a very interesting place. Serbia is top dog. East of Serbia is a weak Bulgaria (after Velbuzhd), south is crumbling Byzantium. If there is nothing west, if we put rebels there, it's gonna be to easy for Serbia to expand there. If we put Bosnia under Hungarian rule, it's gonna make it too strong because they are already in favourable position since map ends with them... So, Bosnia as a Hungarian vassal, will force Serbian expansion south as happened in reality and put it in direct confrontation with byzantium and ottomans...

Bosnia is a good idea, both from historical and gameplay point of view.

Vla_86
09-22-2007, 20:32
Your explanation sounds very good.That's gonna make playing with Serbia even more interesting.It wouldn't be too interesting,if you could make a thrue empire with Serbia in several turns.Personally,I like it and bearly can wait to fight the Ottomans.Have you thought about adding Karaman in Asia Minor? They were very important in these period.

King Orko
09-22-2007, 20:44
Somethinng about Wallachia:
It only held HALF of the size of the Romanian Province.

matko
09-23-2007, 10:22
BOSNIA is in. jeey !!

now we have other things to discuss.

1. Timurids - we totally forgot about them ! they need to be added to faction list. they might be "the saviors of Balkan" as they will cruelly back stab Turks in 1400's.

2. Dubrovnik. maybe a faction D is too much. but we should think how do we make them stay alive for at least a while. if they are a rebel settlement Serbs or Bosnians or Venice will conquer the city in a few turns.

Sarmatian
09-23-2007, 13:35
BOSNIA is in. jeey !!

now we have other things to discuss.

1. Timurids - we totally forgot about them ! they need to be added to faction list. they might be "the saviors of Balkan" as they will cruelly back stab Turks in 1400's.

2. Dubrovnik. maybe a faction D is too much. but we should think how do we make them stay alive for at least a while. if they are a rebel settlement Serbs or Bosnians or Venice will conquer the city in a few turns.

I don't know about Timurids. Their clash with Ottomans was more of a personal conflict between Beyazid and Timur than organised campaign in Asia Minor. After Ankara, Timur didn't continue his conquest, instead he turned back. In the long run that battle didn't really change anything. We could represent them as horde, but then we could see Timurid Venice, and I don't think that's a good thing.

2. Dubrovnik is a good idea but in a game like EU3. In total war engine, factions like Ragusa can not be represented truthfully. If we create it as a faction with weak army, it's still gonna get conquered. If we give it a larger army, we could see Dubrovnik empire which would again be unhistorical. I think we should leave Ragusa out, at least for v1.00, until we see if we can implement it properly. If we are going to create a faction which will be destroyed in i first couple of turns in 99% of the cases, than its's a waste of time...

Vazul's Ghost
09-23-2007, 13:42
Are you going to use some of the skins we saw in the previews of feudalism total war in this mod?, or is it a clean slate. Also, are you going to modify the textures for already existing factions e.g. hungary, byzantium, ottomans, and if you do will you use the works of other modders like white wolf and csatadi, or make your own? sorry about the barrage of questions, but its just exciting that a balcan mod is finally being made.:beam:

phoenix[illusion]
09-23-2007, 14:06
We'll make totally new textures, some models. All textures from FTW are about Novgorod, Moscow and Bulgaria. That texture won't be in use. No texture pack nor other textures in other mod will be used in this mod. So totally new textures!

matko
09-23-2007, 14:11
Sarmatian:
Timurids - make them unplayable - just to give Turks a hard time. they spawn a stack or 2 in Asia minor.

Dubrovnik - thats a hard one - i think that whole decision depends on if it is possible to make their diplomacy right.


Vazul's Ghost

I'm glad you are excited. I'm to.

Milos98
09-23-2007, 15:23
What about Hapsburg (Austria)?

Vazul's Ghost
09-23-2007, 15:47
']We'll make totally new textures, some models. All textures from FTW are about Novgorod, Moscow and Bulgaria. That texture won't be in use. No texture pack nor other textures in other mod will be used in this mod. So totally new textures!
Good to hear, looking good!:2thumbsup:

Ave_Serbia
09-23-2007, 17:48
It would be great if you could put the 3th crusade passing through balkan,or more accurate,trough hungary and serbia in 1189. This event would be of great historic value.

The elderly Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa took up the Cross at Mainz Cathedral on March 27, 1188 and was the first to set out for the Holy Land in May of 1189 with an army of over 15,000 men of which 3,000 were knights.The army was so huge that it could not be transported across the Mediterranean Sea, but instead had to cross Asia Minor by foot.

https://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u230/chellenum1/third_crusade_route_map_small.jpg

phoenix[illusion]
09-23-2007, 17:59
Please read description of mod: Tsardoms: Total War is a M2TW and Kingdoms modification that focuses on the Balkan, Near East and part of Italy starting from uprise of Tsar Stefan Uroš IV Dušan in 1345 and concluding in 1530. Tsardoms allow you to take control of 8 factions (in later versions even more!) all complete with over brand new artistically crafted warriors ready to do your command

Vla_86
09-23-2007, 20:58
Have you guys tought about " special units " for new factions? For an example,HRE has Gothic Knights in vanila mod...Which units shall have Serbia,Bulgaria and other new nations?

phoenix[illusion]
09-23-2007, 21:08
I'm thinking about Aragonese Mercenary Bodyguards as Serbian special unit or Flanged Mace Knights (Topuz Knights)

Vla_86
09-23-2007, 21:47
That's sounds very good.I have red about heavy Spanian infantry and heavy German knights,and they were among the best troups of Serbian empire.I would like to see those Flanged Mace knights as special unit of Serbia:beam:

Milos98
09-24-2007, 16:13
']I'm thinking about Aragonese Mercenary Bodyguards as Serbian special unit or Flanged Mace Knights (Topuz Knights)
I dont think that is a good idea. You should add Rascian heavy infantry or Knights of Kosovo (you can give them flanged maces if you really love that weapon so much :beam: ). Aragonese mercenaries should be in mercenary recruit pool. Im not sure if all the units should be named by the weapon they are carriing.

Milos98
09-24-2007, 19:58
I will repeat my question; are we going to include Hapsburg or not?

Tsar
09-24-2007, 20:06
I like idea.

Ave_Serbia
09-24-2007, 20:57
What do you think about the idea of individual coat of arms for every region (city,castel) in the mod. And when the region is conquered the coat of arms becomes smaller and stands along the standard flag of the conqueror ?

Tsar
09-24-2007, 22:48
The first part of your idea I like too, and I hope will be in the mod but rest NO.
Will be good to have titles for all Cities and Castles and for both Islamic and Catholic/Orthodox factions and with important bonuses in various settlements as a Ancillaries

Kavhan Isbul
09-24-2007, 23:59
First of all, seems like I will need a new banner for my signature block.
The good news is, I love the idea of a mod, entirely devoted to the complex situation in the Balkans in the 14th century.
I am wondering, are the Ottomans going to be the only Muslim faction? I wonder if there were other large beyliks still around in East Asia Minor in 1345 - I will have to refresh my knowledge of early ottoman conquests. It would be nice to have another Muslim faction just for variety, and perhaps for balance, as long as it is historically correct.
I also wonder if there can be faction specific mercenaries along with the faction specific units. For example, Bulgaria used large numbers of Tatars, and I am pretty sure there were Tatars fighting for the Wallachian Voevoda as well. This was due to the geographic situation of Bulgaria and Wallachia. Therefore, only these two factions should have access to such mercenaries, and the Bosnians for example should not. Just a suggestion, in order to make each faction as unique as possible.

matko
09-25-2007, 10:39
First of all, seems like I will need a new banner for my signature block.
The good news is, I love the idea of a mod, entirely devoted to the complex situation in the Balkans in the 14th century.
I am wondering, are the Ottomans going to be the only Muslim faction? I wonder if there were other large beyliks still around in East Asia Minor in 1345 - I will have to refresh my knowledge of early ottoman conquests. It would be nice to have another Muslim faction just for variety, and perhaps for balance, as long as it is historically correct.
I also wonder if there can be faction specific mercenaries along with the faction specific units. For example, Bulgaria used large numbers of Tatars, and I am pretty sure there were Tatars fighting for the Wallachian Voevoda as well. This was due to the geographic situation of Bulgaria and Wallachia. Therefore, only these two factions should have access to such mercenaries, and the Bosnians for example should not. Just a suggestion, in order to make each faction as unique as possible.

we are considering another Muslim faction in Asia minor. probably Kamaran. but it will be unplayable faction wits purpose to slow Ottomans conquest. same principle will be used with Hungary and Habsburgs.

"faction specific mercenaries" - sounds like a good idea

Bulgarians are among first 4 factions (Serbia, Bosnia, Hungarians, Bulgaria) we will make so soon a unit rooster has to be constructed....

any knowledge you posses is precious for us. so visit this sub forum sometimes and give your opinion.

Kavhan Isbul
09-25-2007, 17:30
I would love to visit the subforums and comment, hopefully even help, but how do I get into the subforums. I cannot see a link anywhere.

phoenix[illusion]
09-25-2007, 17:44
I would love to visit the subforums and comment, hopefully even help, but how do I get into the subforums. I cannot see a link anywhere.
You mean TTW dev forum? Go to user cp-> group memebership, and join the ttw group, than you'll have acces to ttw dev dorum

Kavhan Isbul
09-25-2007, 18:30
Request submitted.

Tsar
09-29-2007, 01:06
We need one more muslim faction! That would close faction list for 1.0

Ave_Serbia
09-29-2007, 08:44
We need one more muslim faction! That would close faction list for 1.0


Maybe you should put The Ottoman and Seljuk empires and with that solve the problem.Here is some links that could help.

If you look at it, you will see that the bought empires existed in 1360


http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw17seljukottoman.htm

http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Turks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire


https://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u230/chellenum1/1360eur.jpg

phoenix[illusion]
09-29-2007, 08:58
As you can see seljuk emipire didn't exist in that date:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seljuq_Empire

Seljuk is a dynasty, as ottoman too. So after Seljuks, Ottomas took the rule, and from that emipire was called Ottoman Empire

Ave_Serbia
09-29-2007, 09:50
']As you can see seljuk emipire didn't exist in that date:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seljuq_Empire

Seljuk is a dynasty, as ottoman too. So after Seljuks, Ottomas took the rule, and from that emipire was called Ottoman Empire

Ok, if this what you say is true....then we don't have another muslim faction in the area :no:

King Orko
09-29-2007, 11:47
What about Moldavia?
It was founded in the year 1350, only 5 years after the game starts

Sarmatian
09-29-2007, 12:42
What about Moldavia?
It was founded in the year 1350, only 5 years after the game starts

Since when is Moldavia a muslim faction? What about Karaman? We were already talking about them. Phoenix, it's your call.

phoenix[illusion]
09-29-2007, 12:57
Since when is Moldavia a muslim faction? What about Karaman? We were already talking about them. Phoenix, it's your call.

Karaman sound very good, but I don't know was it Sultanate or Emirate?

Ave_Serbia
09-29-2007, 13:50
']Karaman sound very good, but I don't know was it Sultanate or Emirate?

In 1256, the town was taken by the Turkish warlord Karamanoğlu Mehmet Bey and was renamed Karaman in his honor. From 1275, Karaman was the capital of the emirate (and later Ottoman province) of Karamanid. In 1468 Karamanid was conquered by the Ottomans and in 1483 the capital of the province was moved to Konya.


https://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u230/chellenum1/776px-Karaman_districts.png

King Orko
09-29-2007, 14:06
Since when is Moldavia a muslim faction? What about Karaman? We were already talking about them. Phoenix, it's your call.
Who said it was muslim? I suggested it as a new faction

Sarmatian
09-29-2007, 16:14
Who said it was muslim? I suggested it as a new faction

We don't need another christian faction

matko
09-30-2007, 16:33
We don't need another christian faction

at least for now. maybe later

Tsar
10-01-2007, 00:35
We should add Mongols
http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2005/0511/bush1121.jpg
:oops: :focus:

phoenix[illusion]
10-05-2007, 18:34
hm, we have sicily on map so we need to pu The Crown of Aragon in the game:

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/spain/aragemp13441409.gif

The Crown of Aragon is in!

Tsar
10-06-2007, 22:54
What's happend with "AliAS" and "Tsar Stefan Dusan IV" and "Magyar Templar" are they still in the team? I don't see them on the forum!

phoenix[illusion]
10-07-2007, 04:45
What's happend with "AliAS" and "Tsar Stefan Dusan IV" and "Magyar Templar" are they still in the team? I don't see them on the forum!
AliAS was never in the team, Tsar dissapeared like once again, Magyar Templar was slow worker, so we don't need him. He did nothing.

Vla_86
10-07-2007, 15:20
I know all of you guys hate questions like this one..I am just wondering,when could we expect some unit preview?

phoenix[illusion]
10-07-2007, 15:23
I know all of you guys hate questions like this one..I am just wondering,when could we expect some unit preview?
Hehe, we already viewing units for serbia in dev forum.
Go to user cp -> group membership -> and join ttw group

Tsar
10-14-2007, 18:21
phoenix[illusion] you should update team member list. Remove nonactive and add new :smash:

Digenis
10-16-2007, 16:30
Hi all members of Tsardom!
I d like to make some comments on this mod-if they r welcomed its ok :)

There are some parameters that make me quiet pessimistic about it..although it looks like a brilliant idea.

First-The name.

I dont think it represents the whole game..since among the nations of the game there r only 2 tsardoms!-I was always skipping the mod cause i thought it was about Russian post 13th cent tsardoms!

2nd - The starting date.

I think 1345 is too late for Balcans.
Remember-1360 Turks pass in...1389 Kossovo Battle...and then semi-dead balcanic states struggling for survival till 1453-1480.
That makes some 40 years of balance...and 100 years of life for the mod.

It would be much more interesting if it started in 1204,or 1260(Constantinople recaptured by Byzantines)
More Powerful Latins,Strong Bulgarians,Serbs emerging (since 1200 growing stronger) and so on.

This would make it more interesting both for West Europeans and Greeks/Turks.
Now it looks like a Serb-focused mod only.

matko
10-16-2007, 17:02
Hi all members of Tsardom!
I d like to make some comments on this mod-if they r welcomed its ok :)

There are some parameters that make me quiet pessimistic about it..although it looks like a brilliant idea.

First-The name.

I dont think it represents the whole game..since among the nations of the game there r only 2 tsardoms!-I was always skipping the mod cause i thought it was about Russian post 13th cent tsardoms!

2nd - The starting date.

I think 1345 is too late for Balcans.
Remember-1360 Turks pass in...1389 Kossovo Battle...and then semi-dead balcanic states struggling for survival till 1453-1480.
That makes some 40 years of balance...and 100 years of life for the mod.

It would be much more interesting if it started in 1204,or 1260(Constantinople recaptured by Byzantines)
More Powerful Latins,Strong Bulgarians,Serbs emerging (since 1200 growing stronger) and so on.

This would make it more interesting both for West Europeans and Greeks/Turks.
Now it looks like a Serb-focused mod only.

why 1345 ?
now goal of this mod is to represent late era. every time when i play campaign i become bored or finish game or political situation is totally changed (Milan conquers France, Byzantines destroys Turks or something like that) before i reach high era. so i lost interest in playing any more.

why "Tsardom" ?
because goal is to make empire and become Tsar - emperor. now it wouldn't be totally original to call mod a Empire: TW. Right ?
The old Byzantine empire is collapsing and looking for a successor.

the goal of this mod :
conquer Constantinople, and conquer Balkans, defeat the Ottoman invasion (well not if you are playing the Ottomans). you see this mod is a lot about the Ottoman invasion and wars caused by it. Defeating the Ottomans will really be a chalenge.

"Serbian mod"
Well I'm a co-leader and I'm from Croatia. so your conclusion is not correct.
And all playable factions (8 of them) will get equal treatment.
Playable factions: Bosnia, Bulgaria, Byzantine empire, Hungary, Serbia, Venice, Wallachia, Hospitallers. In later stages of the mod there will even more playable factions.

Too short?
not. one year = 4 turns

Digenis
10-16-2007, 17:17
Are there any screenshots done till now?
Faction previous?
Faction list?

I would insist in starting date...at least 1280/1300 when Ottomans appear,but its your choice after all.

matko
10-16-2007, 17:39
preview will be (very) soon.
and i forget to say that Ottomans will be playable too.

we are fans of more detailed approach, not generalizations. so we are for shorter period that will enable us more details.

Zenith Darksea
10-18-2007, 14:28
Hear hear! I've always been advocating greater focus for mods. I'm looking forward to this one.

Milos98
10-18-2007, 19:36
Well, we are working at full speed ; )

Gazi Husrev-Beg
10-20-2007, 16:36
will there be any preview, I am interested in Bosnian Bannat if it will feature in your mod?

matko
10-20-2007, 17:14
will there be any preview, I am interested in Bosnian Bannat if it will feature in your mod?

preview is going to be soon (maybe even tomorrow) !

Sarmatian
10-20-2007, 22:58
Gazi Husrev-Beg
Location: From most beatifull city on dunjaluk Mostar,Bosna..now in cold Norway thanks to neighbouring primitives...

Call me paranoid, but does he mean what I think he means?

Tsar
10-21-2007, 07:31
Gazi Husrev-Beg
Location: From most beatifull city on dunjaluk Mostar,Bosna..now in cold Norway thanks to neighbouring primitives...

Call me paranoid, but does he mean what I think he means?
:inquisitive: I think he is:whip:

Milos98
10-21-2007, 17:36
Yes, I think he is Ilyrian, slavs bothered him from east and west, so he moved to norway. He is bothered by Vikings from all sides now.

:viking::viking::viking::viking::shame: :viking::viking::viking::viking:

Back to topic...

Tsar
10-21-2007, 20:15
Yes, I think he is Ilyrian, slavs bothered him from east and west, so he moved to norway. He is bothered by Vikings from all sides now.

:viking::viking::viking::viking::shame: :viking::viking::viking::viking:

Back to topic...
:medievalcheers: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Gazi Husrev-Beg
10-22-2007, 09:27
Gazi Husrev-Beg
Location: From most beatifull city on dunjaluk Mostar,Bosna..now in cold Norway thanks to neighbouring primitives...

Call me paranoid, but does he mean what I think he means?

If you are not paranoid, than you are not paying attention :2thumbsup:

Tsar
10-24-2007, 05:29
If you are not paranoid, than you are not paying attention :2thumbsup:

:inquisitive:

Tsar
10-25-2007, 23:40
I lost my honor :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

Milos98
10-26-2007, 11:44
I lost my honor :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

I told you to stop drinking, if you listened to me you wouldnt be honorless tzar... :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
~:cheers: ~:cheers:

Tsar
10-26-2007, 23:34
I told you to stop drinking, if you listened to me you wouldnt be honorless tzar... :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
~:cheers: ~:cheers:

I had just a few ~:cheers: and few:belly: :belly: :belly: I promise, I'll be good ~:mecry:

Gazi Husrev-Beg
10-27-2007, 01:10
Come on, preview preview guys, come on. You said there will be some new textures and models. So throw us a bone, something, anything ;)

matko
10-27-2007, 09:17
Come on, preview preview guys, come on. You said there will be some new textures and models. So throw us a bone, something, anything ;)

well actually preview is done. we are just double checking the grammar and spelling :book: . ( so we don't look stupid if there is some grammar mistakes ).

Gazi Husrev-Beg
10-27-2007, 18:05
Ahh cool :)

matko
10-27-2007, 18:29
FIRST PREVIEW IS OUT !!!
check the preview thread

Sarmatian
12-04-2007, 03:13
Not so much activity here, so I just wanted to mention that we are working on a second preview... So stay tuned, it's gonna happen soon...

gareth3
05-18-2008, 22:50
I have a few ideas.

Well since we have italy in the game and catholic factions, how about bringing in excommunications? They were far more dangerous in reality than what vanilla shows. Excommunications allowed general and goveners to legally break away from their lord. I read that you guys are planning on bringing back the rebellions of MTW1 so this would be another way for it to happen.

And one thing thats been driving me crazy since I got MTW2 is you dont have a say in who is the faction heir:furious3: ! It wasn't the eldest son and then his son or brother every time, even he was alive. When William the 2nd(better known as Rufus) died, his youngest brother Henry, not his elder brother Robert(Rufus was William's 3rd son and Robert was the eldest). Now I love historical accuracy in games and mods, but England is proof it wasn't always the first son.:yes:

gareth3
06-04-2008, 19:28
:book: :inquisitive: Uh, Is this mod still around? There hasn't been anyone on for a while and I'm starting to wonder whats going on with this mod?

Tsar
06-06-2008, 00:32
It's a bit slow but we are here!

CroatBan
02-18-2009, 10:17
Please add Croatia. :thrasher:

SerbianInfantry
12-25-2009, 19:06
Hi everybody, I've been watching this mod for quite some time and I am very VERY thrilled about it. So I just want to say thank you all for making the effort. I mean, I'm a total war fanatic (who isn't?), and when I first heard about making of this mod I was like: You're fu*kin' kidding me!!! And like all fanatics I wanted it right now... Anyway sorry about rambeling. What I saw and red, this is awesome. I noticed there isn't much activaty here, so just so I dont write to myself - it is still on... Right... please... I dont know nothin' about programing so I just wanted to be mental support. You rock! Don't give up!... please for the love of God don't give up...
PS: like many others... sorry for my bad english.

SerbianInfantry
12-29-2009, 11:24
Dudes... I just found out the most terrefying news of all... This mod is no longer being worked on... My dream has been crushed... I'm thinking about suicide :wall: Why!?! WHY!?! Is it becouse of me... But seriously, guys why? you were my idols... I waited for year-somthin' for this mod, and I would whait years more, just don't tell me its gone... Come on you guys get together again and make WHOLE BALKAN PROUD. Please... anyone...:help::help::help: