City garrisons

[stumpff]

I'm curious as to what sort of a garison you guys leave in cities that have long since been conquered. I typically will leave a 1-4 unit stack (counting general) in each town bordering another nations providence. In addition I assign a 10 unit stack along borders which have mountains along them to guard the passes and divide it up amongst various forts.

At any one given time i don't field more than 3 full stacks against any one given nation, this makes getting replacements easier as when one stack is depleted to half strength I redeploy them back to the homeland and replenish their numbers, also keeps veteran armies intact.

[Xehh II]

I don't garrison my cities unless the are on a border.

[Bootsiuv]

The cheapest possible troops for my heartland cities....pantadapoi work nicely for garrison duty, as do Hoplatai Haploi.

I haven't messed with the other factions enough to really know too much about them, but I would simply use the largest unit for the smallest price available.

Now, in cities bordering other nations, it really depends on several factors like am I at war with them, is the city strategically important, etc.

[pezhetairoi]

I use akontistai wherever possible, and leave the absolute minimum needed to keep it on a green face at low taxation. All have at least one unit. Even border towns are only garrisoned to the minimum as the way I play it, the enemy often doesn't even get a chance to besige my towns for more than the AI turn takes to end since I always have legions lurking around the border at possible conflict areas.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

Around 4 or less unless its an emergency. I don't keep huge amounts sitting around unless a province has an enemy stack heading for it. Then I raise levies to defend. I focus more on building public order and happiness buildings so I can leave it without an army or governor if I need to. Heck don't tell anyone but Roma is defended by 2 skirmishers and some teenage family members having raging toga parties at the Ludus.

[Cash Staks]

I follow the general format most people here seem to. Cheap to no garrison in heartland cities. Although if the heartland can be threatened easily I usually have a roaming force to deal with rebels and any enemies that may pop up.

An example I can give for this is in my current Makedonia campaign. I am neutral with the Getai and they border a number of my provinces. They are also allies with the Seleucids whom I am at war with. So as a precautionary measure I have an almost full stack just chillin on our border with a nice network of watchtowers and spies just in case. Yes, I am a very conservative player. But I don't want to have to divert forces from Asia if the Getai decide to invade.

As for frontier cities, it depends on the importance of the city and the risk of attack that it faces. Usually though I find a roaming force to be a bit better than a garrison. I hate defending, or even assaulting cities, for that matter. I would much rather face the enemy on the open field. This stems from the fact that I can't really get my forces in the deployment I want from a city as I have to sally them out if it gets under seige. I'd rather avoid that headache. I'll only garrison it if the city has a chance of rebelling and I want to keep it.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I always garrison my towns with the cheapest per-man units available to them. This usually turns out to be skirmishers or lugoae. I'll try to have one unit in every city when I start the game, then I'll increase it to two once I have money and the towns start getting unruly. I'll usually have to increase the amount to 4 unit in distant provinces.

I try to keep decent sized garrisons in my border town, as it will deter enemy/ally attack.

[geala]

If I can afford it, I have garrisons of mixed troops, for roleplay. Mostly militia like Hoplitai Haploi, Akontistai, Toxotai and Sphendonetai plus a pike unit for gate defence. Normally 4 to 6 units, sometimes only 1 + general (in my capital f.e.). I go for a green face with very high or high taxes and I have family governors in all towns, if possible.

But the defence of towns is utter crap in RTW/EB, because the constant loss of soldiers over the years of the siege, while the attacker suffers nothing in the flimsy huts and tents outside. This is fantasy. It is far to easy to attack a town. So normally I try to get better defences outside the cities. In my Epeiros campaign I kicked the Romans out of southern and middle Italy to get the river Po as a border. When the Getai were attacked by the Romans I took some towns from them to get rivers and bridges to defend (normally I don't attack first, but the opportunity...). Same in Asia minor. I use forts to close gaps and win time if the AI wished to attack me.

Segesta, the gate to western Italy, is my only city with a permanent decent garrison and was attacked yesterday evening by the Lusotannan. They attacked me just the turn after I lost two full stacks of medium quality units (one stack never appeared on the battlefield) on Crete because the Macedons had three stacks and the timer ran out. Grrr, the Lusos must have had a crystal ball nearby; never fought against them before, let's see.


Question: is it possible to change the feature that the defender looses soldiers per turn during sieges? I fear it's hard-coded but it would be great.

[stumpff]

Or give the attack a supply limit...say 2 turns and they start losing troops too

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It is unfortunately impossible to make armies loose men outside of the exsisting ways of losing men. Armies can't be made to act as though they are under siege or diseased when they aren't, in the vanilla sense of it.

[Sand]

I use a simple rule of thumb of 4 garrison units for every city I intend to hold. Some enemy cities are tougher than others, but if 4 cant garrison it, then usually a high influence or law governor is required anyway. In practise, especially If Im grasping for troops to hold recently taken cities to free up my front line forces, then it can drop to 2 or even 1. Garrison units are basically the cheapest thing I can mass produce - Playing as Rome its the Accensi.

Since turn one in my current game Ive been producing at least one of these every turn and now [223BC] Im up to sending out 8 every turn as I struggle to keep up with the rate of expansion. It is fairly tough micro management tbh and Im having to run a chain of fleets across the med. Now that I hold Greece and Asia Minor Im looking at the greek archer units as theyre almost as cheap and closer to the action against the grey death.

I never leave cities ungarrisoned no matter how far they are from the enemy, too much risk for little gain tbh.

[Bootsiuv]

The only reason I don't use Toxotai is because of my own personal roleplaying purposes....if anything, I'll use a unit of Hoplitai Haploi/Pantadapoi and then a unit of Toxotai for missile support, but, if you're looking for the best value, then Toxotai are far and away your best bet, for greeks, anyways. ~300/150 is a pretty good deal.

[jhhowell]

To me, the sole purpose of a garrison is keeping public order above 70% at very high tax rates (keeping population growth within the 0.5-1.5% range is my top priority, always). So heartland cities with governors often have no garrison at all other than the governor himself. Other cities vary as distance, size, and culture dictate, from just a Lugoae and Iosatae in the small Alpine villages to a half-stack of Akontistai and Levy Hoplites in Alexandria (and that garrison will likely grow further). With the Roman economy, unit cost is largely irrelevant. I care about size and to some extent whether the unit mix can be used for rebel-quashing if necessary. Thus a few Caetrati in Iberian garrisons, the Iosatae in Celtic areas, and a few Peltasts, Classical Hoplites, and Hippeis in well-developed Hellenic areas.

[NightStar]

I try to garrison with the minimum amount of troops, and the cheapest per man units. Border cities often get more garrison. Often I have half a stack around borders that can be swiftly put into action if nessicary, and I always try to keep my treasury at 5000+ for emergency mercenary recruitment to face unexpected attacks.

[pezhetairoi]

To those who leave ungarrisoned cities a word of caution: Eleutheroi attack cities from time to time, too, y'know... Might not be very wise.

Well, the only city I keep a large stack in is Byzantion because that is my 'Ne Plus Ultra' for now and my most defensible frontier. Most Greek mercs, but there you go. It guards against Makedonian upfront attacks.

[NightStar]

To those who leave ungarrisoned cities a word of caution: Eleutheroi attack cities from time to time, too, y'know... Might not be very wise.

Yeah that's what I've noticed too, that's why I always have at least 1 unit in every city. And I keep a rabble clearing force that travels the countryside putting down rebellions and hunting bandits

[Beefy187]

Im in love with those Celtic slingers:2thumbsup:

Just a quick question.. I got 4 units of 3 silver chevron awesome Celtic slingers. But i get sieged by Romans quite often and after 1 turn of siege, 1 unit from each unit dies. Is there any way to prevent this? Do i need bigger farm?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Im in love with those Celtic slingers:2thumbsup:

Just a quick question.. I got 4 units of 3 silver chevron awesome Celtic slingers. But i get sieged by Romans quite often and after 1 turn of siege, 1 unit from each unit dies. Is there any way to prevent this? Do i need bigger farm?
Nope. That's just how sieges work. While is city is under siege, the defenders will slowly loose men every turn. There is no way to prevent this (other than lifting the siege).

[Beefy187]

thank you:2thumbsup:

[geala]

Nope. That's just how sieges work. While is city is under siege, the defenders will slowly loose men every turn. There is no way to prevent this (other than lifting the siege).

That means, it is also not modable? It's a pity.

[blank]

i leave local mercs - can't waste those factional troops...

[Dram]

The only reason I don't use Toxotai is because of my own personal roleplaying purposes....if anything, I'll use a unit of Hoplitai Haploi/Pantadapoi and then a unit of Toxotai for missile support, but, if you're looking for the best value, then Toxotai are far and away your best bet, for greeks, anyways. ~300/150 is a pretty good deal.

not really. you only get 60 men in a full unit of toxotai on large setting, while you get 120 with akonistai, and they cost about 180.

the amount of men in the unit determines how much % order they contribute. if you put a depleted unit with 10 men on duty for example they will contribute little or nothing.

[Philip of Massalia]

I target to put how many cheap men necessary to maintain order. I don't know how some claim they can achieve it with no, or less then 3 units. However I play with small units option.

Is there an influence on how they maintain order?:help:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Accensi, akontistai, or sometimes other random levies I find. For example in Gaul I have some lugoae and in Iberia some Iberi Milites. Eventually I'll want to replace any units I have that aren't accensi or akontistai towards cheaper ones. I take the type of unit that has lowest upkeep/men quotient

Closer to the "frontlines" I may have forgotten some higher quality units from my main armies for longer periods of time occasionally...

[Dram]

I target to put how many cheap men necessary to maintain order. I don't know how some claim they can achieve it with no, or less then 3 units. However I play with small units option.

Is there an influence on how they maintain order?:help:

Interesting. I wonder if people who play on small units are at a disadvantage here, due to having less troops per unit?

The actual amount of people per town does not change based on unit size, so it would make sense that there could be an imbalance unless theres a scaling system in place.

[johnhughthom]

Interesting. I wonder if people who play on small units are at a disadvantage here, due to having less troops per unit?

The actual amount of people per town does not change based on unit size, so it would make sense that there could be an imbalance unless theres a scaling system in place.
I was wondering that too, does cost drop with smaller unit sizes? I have only ever used huge myself.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

One of the reasons that I only play on Huge is because it was impossible to keep the happiness up in rioting vanilla cities with the smaller units sizes. It seems to me, that smaller unit sizes are at a disadvantage when it comes to garrisons.

[Strategos Alexandros]

I use levies like Hoplitai Haploi and phalanxes inborder cities. I normaly keep one army in a fort in every few border provinces.

[Magister Militum Titus Pullo]

Romani Faction: Four Equite squadrons, and four Triarii units in the capital.
Italian cities. Either Princepes or Samniti units.
Roman Gallic provinces: Celtic levy spearmen and slingers.
Roman Iberian provinces: Iberi milites, Caetrati and Lusotannon mercs.
Roman Greek provinces: Hoplites and Toxotoi.
Roman African provinces: Numidian skirmishers have limited defensive value, so I import Samnites, Celts, hoplites and toxotoi to Africa.


Ptolemy Faction: Four Hetairoi and ten Basilikon Agema in Alexandreia.
And Pella, Antiocheia, Seleukeia each have four Royal Guard units stationed in them.
Upper Egypt, Nubia, and western Libyan expanse: Klerouchikon phalangites, Galatians, Ethiopians, Nubians, Judeans, hoplites and toxotoi.
Asia Minor: Mostly hoplites and toxotoi.
Arabian annexations: Galatians, Jews, Nubians, Persian Payahdag and Parthian/Persian foot.
Syrian and Levantine provinces: Klerouchikon phalangites, Jewish militia, and Galatians.
Iranian and Bactrian annexations: Klerurouchikon Phalanx, Persian archers and spearmen.
Indian annexations: Hindu spears and bowmen.
Macedonia, Hellas, Thrakkia and Illyria: Hoplites and toxotoi.
Italy, Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia: Hoplites, Samnites, Hastati and toxotoi.
North African annexations: Hoplites, Samnites, Phalangitai, Nubians, Galatians, Jewish militia, Persian archers and spearmen.
Iberian annexations: Hoplites, Iberi milites, caetrati, and toxotoi.

More later.....

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I mostly put 2 units of Phalangitai Deuteroi and 1 unit sphendonetai in my cities, or 2 units of Hoplites. But I decided to change it since I can make it better and (partly) cheaper.

I divided my empire into a couple of military districts, each consisting of four to 10 provinces, depending on the area covered by the provinces. One city in the center is the district capital with a territorial army stationed there, ready to reach every corner of the district in a few turns. It consists of 6 Hoplite/ Phalangitai Deuteroi/Nizag Gund/Taxeis Triballoi units, and 2 units sphendonetai. If a rebellion in the district occurs, the army will march there and be taken over by a nearby couch-potato governor, whose military abilities are seldomly prooved. Every city is garrisoned with 1 (District of Hellas) to about 4 (outlying districts) units of Hoplitai Haploi. They are very cheap and can be produced everywhere, so I'm rid of all the micromanagement of sending stacks of Phalangitai around.

In newly conquered areas with many unruly servants, I normally hire lots of mercenary Phalangitai and Thureophoroi to maintain order. Plus choke points like fords and passes are normally garrisoned by forts with a few cheap units. If possible, I conquer territories that have an easy defensable border. In districts that border an enemy faction, the territorial army is enhanced by archers, Thureophoroi, horse archers and medium cavalry, regionally available for easy replenishment so that the army becomes a full stack plus reserve division.

Oh, and needless to say, my whole empire is a watchtower-park. I hate it when I can't see areas in my empire. For me, areas are only a part of my empire when I can see them.

[Magister Militum Titus Pullo]

Seleukidai Faction: In each Seleukeia, Antiocheia, Alexandreia, Pella and Bactra, I station two Hetairoi squadrons, four Hypastistai, four Argyrispidai (two Phalangites, two Thorakitai), four Pheraspidai and between two to four archers of Persian or Syrian stock.
Iranian dominions: Four Klerouchikon Phalangitai, four Nizag Gund battalions and four Persian archer companies.
Asia Minor provinces: Mostly four Hoplites units and two archers units of either Greek or Syrian stock. Spearmen levies in Galatia.
Levantine provinces: Phalangitai, Jewish militia and Syrian archers.
Egypt, Nubia and eastern Libya. Phalangitai, Jewish militia, Hoplites and Toxotoi.
Hellas, Macedonia, Thrakkia and Illyria: Hoplites and Toxotoi.
Italy, Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica: Hoplites, Samnites, Hastati, and Toxotoi.
North African conquests: Phalangitai, Hoplites, Jewish militia, Samnites and Toxotoi.
Indian conquests: Phalangitai and Hindu spears and bowmen.
Armenian conquests: Phalangitai and Scythian foot archers.
Asian Steppe conquests: Phalangitai and Persian Archers.
Arabian conquests: Phalangitai, Jewish militia, Nizag Gund and Payadag.

Qart-Hadast Faction.
Carthage and Thapsus: Four Sacred Band cavalry, four Sacred Band infantry and eight citizen militia.
African provinces: Poeni militia, and Libyan soldiers.
Sardinia and Corsica: Poeni militia and Punic-Libyan troops.
Sicily: Libyan troops, hoplites and toxotoi.
Rhegion, Italy: Libyan troops, Samnites and Toxotoi.
Iberian territories: Punic-Libyans, Iberi milites Caetrati and Lusattanon mercs.
Crete: Hoplites and Toxotoi.
Thermon, Hellas: Libyans, Hoplites and Toxotoi.
Massilia, Gaul: Punic-Libyans, Massilian hoplites and Toxotoi.

I must also say that as well as erect watchtowers to keep vigilant of bandit activity, I also muster and team up squadrons of light cavalry in all of my games to seek and eliminate rebel groups operating within my borders.

[antisocialmunky]

Two basic infantry + two slingers. That way I can take out rebels or scamble missile troops.

[Poulp']

Oh, and needless to say, my whole empire is a watchtower-park. I hate it when I can't see areas in my empire. For me, areas are only a part of my empire when I can see them.

Amen,
I second that.

My garrisons consist of low tier infantry. I mass-produce them and stack the city, allowing me to raise the tax level. Now, when the city is full, I send most of them to a low-populated city and disband them here, safe an odd unit to keep the populace happy... or obedient.

[mucky305]

Depends on which era. In the early days of the empire, I use a unit of slingers, local spearman, or mercenaries. Once the Marian and Imperial reforms occur, I use a unit of Auxilia spearmen and one of city militia. Italic peninsula cities get Evocatae except for Rome which has Praetorians. I build forts at chokepoints such as river crossings and mountain passes or at forest crossroads. Auxilia cavalry provide the garrisons for these forts so I can maintain fast moving quick strike capability. I also ensure that I build roads as soon as possible to improve troop movement. I further broke everything down into regions with individual "capitals" which house a named/numbered Legion. Believe it or not, they get quite a workout suppressing rebels.

[Dram]

I turn off rebel spawns completely (setting: 99999999999999999). I keep 10 unit armies fortified in each major region as a representitive anti-rebel force. I've fought so many repeditive, pointless and unchallenging battles against them that i cant play any other way anymore. It basically costs me the same as it would having spawns on, but I dont have to scan the map every turn and fight all the battles.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I turn off rebel spawns completely (setting: 99999999999999999). I keep 10 unit armies fortified in each major region as a representitive anti-rebel force. I've fought so many repeditive, pointless and unchallenging battles against them that i cant play any other way anymore. It basically costs me the same as it would having spawns on, but I dont have to scan the map every turn and fight all the battles.
If you just leave them, the game won't spawn endless rebel stacks. Say you have 5 small rebellions in your empire, there won't be created new ones. If you wipe them out, the next turn a new army will be somewhere else. If you can manage to drive them off into the desert for example, it should be OK.

[Megas Methuselah]

But won't the rebels devastate the square tile that they're occupying and thus reduce the tax income of the province...?
:worried:

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Yes. I wouldn't leave a rebel army in Thessaly unharmed, you know, but Nabataea is a different case, of course.

[Sand]

But won't the rebels devastate the square tile that they're occupying and thus reduce the tax income of the province...?

Push them into neutral, or better yet enemy territory and let them worry about them. I also use rebels as border guards, but thats trickier to arrange.


Oh, and needless to say, my whole empire is a watchtower-park. I hate it when I can't see areas in my empire. For me, areas are only a part of my empire when I can see them.

Used to be the same, but I prefer mass spies now - faster to deploy and can "follow" interesting targets or be adjusted to ensure Im getting maximum range. Towers arent as good imo and because only generals can put them up so theyre slower to expand.

Can also be removed when not useful, and doesnt stop me bottlenecking passes with forts.

[SesostrisVIII]

Well, I am new so Im asking this, how many max amount of soldiers are you allowed to have in an army?

[Parkev]

Playing as Casse, 15 provinces. Don't tell the Sweboz, but there's not a single unit in Britian or Ireland, except for 600 men outside Camulosadae. Gaul on the other hand has one regional levies on border cities with response troops stationed within a season's march (unless its winter).

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well, I am new so Im asking this, how many max amount of soldiers are you allowed to have in an army?
Theoretically 4841 in 20 units.

[Parkev]

Actually every unit can have 3 officers, I think I read it in the edu. Here it is

; officer Name of officer model. There may be up to 0-3 officer lines per unit
So that would make it 4861. Unless there is a disparity between EDU and hard code that I'm unaware of.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I think the third is always the Captain, and there is only one captain in one army. Of course, if an army is attacked, and is sorrounded by 8 friendly armies, you have 8 reinforcement armies, and so 9 captains. So 4849 would be the absolute maximum.