Put me out of my misery...

[Orda Khan]

Ok I got to know....
Has anyone played as the Golden Horde in the historic campaign ?
What are their units like ?
How do they compare with their mates in MI ?

........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Ii Naomasa]

I haven't played them in the historic campaign, but until someone does and can provide you with a more detailed report, I'll give you my limited experience from four or so battles I engaged with them while defending Europe from their onslaught in the normal campaign mode.

The armies that attacked me consisted primarily of two cavalry types and a single foot soldier type (the last battle had some typical game units, but I think they were 'built' in conquered lands).

The heavy cavalry looked like they could be trouble under the right conditions, but unfortunately, I never got to see their potential.

The light cavalry was a pain because they're fast and pretty deadly with their bows. You are screwed if you don't have a couple of fast enough cavalry units to tear into them a bit, as there's too many to try to entrap...your footmen get tired from running and lose faith from being pincushions...

The 'mongol warrior' foot soldier looks to be decent footman with both melee and missile weapons. Like the heavy cavalry, I really never got to see their potential.

Why? Well because they unfortunately decided to invade the great lands of the Sultan of Egypt, which were defended by the ageless Saladin and his army of battle-hardened Saracens. The Mongols invaded three provinces. One I managed to defend and the other two I lost and retreated to the castles (one I was outnumbers about ten to one). Saladin then returned from his wars up in the Russia area and trounced the 'Golden Joke', because the valor 5&6 Saracen hordes could sit on a hill and take wave after wave of charging Mongols and come away with nearly no casualties (I'm still wondering if the Saracen units are potentially too powerful...I've overrun most of Europe using an army made up primarily of them). The only threat to the Saracens were the light cavalry, but I learned my lesson from one failed defense and made sure I included some cavalry to chase after the annoying pests while my Saracens tore up the main attack force.

From my admittedly poor experience with them in MTW, they're seem to be fairly comparable to the MI versions of the heavy and light cavalry, while the 'Mongol warrior' is perhaps a bit skirmisher with some spearman capabilities. On open ground with an opponent that has less reliable ground troops, they could be a serious threat, but they seem to suffer the same way the MI units did when you play a 'camping on a hill' defense against them.

[Azmogeddon]

Hmm, I've been having trouble choosing between Egypt and England for my first campaign, and that may just have decided it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Humm there is of course the issue of the Elmo-heads, who are also rather tempting. Are Saracens an area-dependant unit, or unique to Egypt?

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Azmo
[long-time lurker]

[Kraxis]

Ii Naomasa... you question the stength of the Saracens, but wouldn't valour 5&6 units in general kick a$$???
I don't have the game yet, but I found in the demo that the Saracen Infantry is very tough, duking it out with Byzantine Infantry, but they were surprisingly weak (weak is relative here as cavalry losses were still high) against heavy cavalry.
I just guess the AI don't really know how to counter them properly.
Have you tried fighting them as other factions, and how did you defeat them?

[Ii Naomasa]

Kraxis, my concern is not with my 5 & 6 level Saracens, but that they were kicking Christian butt back when they were rookie units. There's a reason Saladin's army (and his subordinate general who tagged along and either reinforced the numbers or took nearby provinces) had a dozen or so of level 5 and 6 Saracen units between them...they just never die. At first I used Saracens as my spearmen and were amazed that they could take charges from Byzantine and Norvgood troops and come away with a few scratches. The Saracens are like the Naginata troops of Shogun...they can hold off forever against things. This enables other troops (even more Saracens) to flank the attacking units. With nearly no casualties in most units (unless they were surrounded), their honor just grew at outrageous amounts.

I'm not complaining, as the Saracens historically were often feared by European troops, but I just hope my nearly unstoppable army of deploying 12-14 Saracens and 2-4 Cavalry units (just to compensate for the lack of Saracen speed in dealing with ranged or mounted troops) was just an abuse of the AI (human plays would hopefully compensate with more ranged and mounted units to skirmish). I suppose the expense of the Saracens would keep people from fielding so many online.

Azmogeddon, I'm at work and I don't have the tech tree in front of me to verify if the Saracens are Egyptian only or just Muslim-only. They're not territory specific, at least. The Almohads have some pretty impressive troops of their own, at least that's what my routing English troops keeps telling me everytime I send them into occupied Spain. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Even the troops that conquered the kingdom of Aragon without a sweat had issues.

Maybe my computer has a religious bias :-).

[Orda Khan]

Hmmmm.... Thanks. It sounds like they could be fun to use, they sound a bit more Mongol in tactic than MI. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Counting the days til the Horde is mine http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Nobunaga0611]

Yup I just encountered the Mongols for the first time. I don't like em at all. I don't know where they're coming from, but a few thousand just keep appearing and attacking my provinces. I have about a 50% success rate in beating them, as I have no money, two Crusades currently heading for my lands, and at least two of my sea lanes blockaded. So its kind of a toss up between creating troops to fight the Mongols, and creating ships to open up trade routes so I can make money again. Either way I'm going to lose a lot of money, and probably some land before I start gaining again. The Mongols have done nothing but made my life a lot harder.