Original MTW Lives On!!

[ArtistofEmpires]

Wow! Just...wow...

I cannot believe that so many of you are still around and playing this game!!

I'm actually at home (sick as a dog) for the next week or so and I started playing MTW:VI this weekend again for the first time in years.

Right away, there it was...the huge battlefields, the map and battlefield AI that had a virtual brain, my pc capable of running tens of thousands of troops on screen at once without a hitch, and the just...realism of MTW that has in my opinion, never again been matched since...arguably, in a strategy game period.

Just saying hey...I'm around (haven't been registered on these forums for AGES lol) and I'll be hanging out for a while.

Thinking of starting a hard campaign, or maybe installing the XL mod...but for now, I'm just setting up battle after battle...something which is of zero appeal to me in rtw and m2tw due to the restrictions and AI.

Forgot how great this game was...memory refreshed!!

:2thumbsup:

...just imagine how many little sprites would have lived on had I not reinstalled this game heh...

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

Hi,

welcome to the forum

yeah there are still quite a lot of players who still play MTW: VI (and also the mods)

It all started when I bought MTW Gold, and I enjoy/ed it so much, few months later decided to buy M2:TW, and the Rome TW Anthology (and also have Europa Barbarorum mod), I might also buy Shogun too.

MTW / VI Covers 'the most important eras' (that interests me the most personally) i.e Late Dark Ages to Late Middle Ages (gunpowder era in Europe), and I'm really a great fan of VI

Luckily I can run M2TW, which I really enjoy too, but have to have many of the graphics on low - medium (I do have pixel shader 2 though, so have the reflections and bloom, etc) but when there are hundreds of units in the same area, it becomes very laggy.

But as MTW / VI is older, if there are thousands of soldiers on the battlefield, it will run very smooth, the only time it will get a bit laggy, is if there are numerous artillery weapons firing at the same time (I think)

Of course, all TW games have their own advantages and disadvantages, some naturally have the advantage of being newer, i.e graphics for M2:TW (and more individual looking units, etc) Other factors are also due to personal taste. I.e some prefer the strategic map to have borders, and some prefer it to have no physical borders (RTW, M2TW), while you have more freedom (I guess) from moving around and in regions, I personally prefer the provincial boundaries in MTW, as I often find it too confusing to know exactly where I am, and which lands I own in M2TW's style ~:(

On the other hand I find Siege warefare FAR better in M2TW, what with missile troops can actually be on wall defences, battering rams, siege ladders & towers, etc, and of course more variation in the types and sizes of towns & cities.

Not to forget the special formations in M2TW, i.e Circle & Shoot, Spear wall, etc, and flamming arrows, barrage fire, etc

I'm not too sure about the statistics, and am not sure which is 'correct', but I did prefer the Swiss Pikemen & Halberds in MTW to M2TW,

All in all, I don't have a favourite TW game, as I see them all as enjoyable, all having their own advantages & disadvantages

[Martok]

Yeah, there's quite a few of us still playing MTW -- we're a hardy breed. ~;) Glad to see you around these parts, ArtistofEmpires; welcome! ~:wave:

[Sensei Warrior]

:yes: like an annoying, itchy rash, we're hard to get rid of. :beam:

[dknight]

You almost make me wish I have M2TW, but I still have too much fun with the original MTW. I had RTW but hadn't even start playing it yet (except for several turns in the tutorial)

Hopefully, in about a year or two, I can upgrade myself to M2TW :D

[Laman]

One good thing I like about MTW is that when sieging the besieger also gets losses! That is one thing I really miss in RTW.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

One weird thing though in M2TW:

The HandGonners, Arquebusiers & Matchlocks (Muskets) all could fire in heavy rain (I'm pretty sure of that), which is very strange considering the slowmatch (and other means, i.e red hot poker, fuse, etc for the early handgonnes) would have quickly been distinguished from the rain (and heavy wind), yet in all weather conditions, the gunners can fire fine. Also not right, as any gunpowder exposed to the open would get wet too. (being harder / impossible to fire)

In MTW however, only in very light drizzle can they fire, but anything stronger, and thier 'missile' capabilities are useless, all they can do is fight sword to sword (which is realistic).

Which is why I always worried in the late middle ages about having them in my army, because if the weather was bad, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs (whereas the archers, crowssbows,etc could still fire).

I'm no expert on crossbows, but I find it weird in M2TW also, how often they will aim right at the sky to fire, I always presumed you would fire headon (if close) or just slightly at a higher angle (for distance), but not as if you're trying to shoot birds out of the sky.

[Brandy Blue]

I'm no expert on crossbows, but I find it weird in M2TW also, how often they will aim right at the sky to fire, I always presumed you would fire headon (if close) or just slightly at a higher angle (for distance), but not as if you're trying to shoot birds out of the sky.

I am not expert with any kind of missle, not even throwing a wadded up piece of trash paper into a garbage can across the room! However, I have read that even with rifles, it is necessary to fire up into the air in order to achieve maximum range. Do the M2TW crossbows fire in the air at all ranges, or only max?

[Sensei Warrior]

I will not presume to be an expert on these matters, but I have shot a number of missiles in my day, including bow (recurve and the pulley type compound), Xbows, bb guns (and their brethren pellet guns), handguns and rifles, so I can say this:

All of the above type projectiles fire with an arc. I cant remember off-hand why but they do. The slower the projectile moves through the air the more arc it has. Therefore the recurve bow has the most arc, generally speaking, and high powered rifles have the least.

With recurve bows at short range you have to aim under where you would like to hit to account for the arrow still rising up as it makes it's arc. At mid-range you want to aim at exactly the target, and at long range you want to aim at above the target.

How can you tell where to aim at what distance? Well, thats the reason why Xbows were so much easier to use. Since Xbows (and arblests) have a much flatter trajectory, because they go faster, it takes alot of the guess work out of where to aim.

Of course this doesn't really answer the question of why do Archers aim up into the air so high, they cant possibly be aiming at anything. That is true. Archers that are aiming at the sky know that positioning the arrow to fly at a certain angle will make it land a certain distance away. When 60 Archers launch that many arrows into the air (called a volley) they are aiming at a certain general area a specific distance away. This volley is 'aimed' at a large group of men across the field (like 100 Spearmen). When that many arrows go up, not all will hit a target, but odds are they'll hit something.

Think of it as very primitive artillery. They pound a general area with so much ordinance they are bound to hit something. Now back to the point. Why do Xbowmen aim into the air? I'm guessing that they are doing the same thing the archers are doing, firing a volley at a general area that is out of their 'targeting' range. Is this accurate for the weapon and the time period? I have no idea. It makes sense from a logical standpoint, but if they actually did it or not is something I just don't know.

If they are firing into the sky at close range, then that makes no sense, unless they are trying to fire over something, like another unit. I would hazard a guess that this is more gameplay mechanics then real life actions. IRL it would be more likely that they would 'fire through' the other unit when the opportunity presents itself, or they would reposition themselves to have a clear target.

[dknight]

@Sensei Warrior: Your explaination is very helpfull.

I would add that slow projectile fly in an arc because of gravity, which tends to drag the projectiles downward. Theoretically, all projectile flying along a flat trajectory will end up some point below its target line. The longer time spending in the air, the lower that point would be (i.e. the slower and further it has to travel, the more downward it would become).

About your experience with the recurve bow, I would guess the focal tension point of the bow string is slightly underneed the arrows so it has a slight kick upward at the start. I don't have any practical experience with this but it's kind of make sense considering that the arrows would eventually going downward a bit in any significant range.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

thanks for the explanation

I def will be reading quite a bit on archery, crossbows, arcs, etc in the near future

[Sensei Warrior]

Hmm, that's right huge, long post and no mention of gravity anywhere in it. I must have been tired. Dknight is correct that gravity forces an object in air towards the Earth. It does this at a rate of 32 (or 9.8 meters for our European friends) feet per second, each second.

Shooting of any kind is always a fascinating subject, always a good idea to learn more. Also another fascinating subject is the types of bows that were availavble then, how they were made etc. As good as MTW is the differences of missile weapons is underepresented in the game. Overall though, MTW (and its mods) are still by far and away great games.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

speaking of bows, etc

I'm possibly thinking of learning how to build bows & arrows, (and possibly even crossbows)

I'm no carpenter, so it would naturally take me more time, but for example the 'self-bows' (flat blows, longbows, etc) would be an easier step to start.

Although making arrow heads, i.e bodkin point, would either be very hard or impossible (as I don't have a forge & don't have the skills), although making arrow heads from stone, i.e flint should be possible,

Fletchings are of course vital, I have at home some crappy 'toy' arrows, (with suction pad), which a nock, but no fletchings, from about 2 meters the arrow already starts to fly astray, most often it goes nowhere near the 'target.

[UltraWar]

Medieval: Total War and the mods for it are the only things that fuel my megalomaniac habits!

[Martok]

Medieval: Total War and the mods for it are the only things that fuel my megalomaniac habits!
~:cheers:

[Sensei Warrior]

speaking of bows, etc

I'm possibly thinking of learning how to build bows & arrows, (and possibly even crossbows)

I'm no carpenter, so it would naturally take me more time, but for example the 'self-bows' (flat blows, longbows, etc) would be an easier step to start.

Although making arrow heads, i.e bodkin point, would either be very hard or impossible (as I don't have a forge & don't have the skills), although making arrow heads from stone, i.e flint should be possible,

Fletchings are of course vital, I have at home some crappy 'toy' arrows, (with suction pad), which a nock, but no fletchings, from about 2 meters the arrow already starts to fly astray, most often it goes nowhere near the 'target.

A worthy endeavor. Flat bows would be the bows to start with. They are the simplest. Unless you're really looking for authenticity the arrowheads could be bought at a outdoorsman/hunting type store. Same with the bowstring.

Your toy arrows start to fly astray because of the lack of fletchings. They are what keeps the arrow flying in a 'straight' path. Fletch your toy arrows and you'll notice an improvement in their flight path.

I have made fletched arrows once a long time ago, I think their was a tool which made it easier. Fletching arrows is easy, as for making a bow I've never tried.

[ArtistofEmpires]

Thank you for everyone who replied to me and again...wow. I didn't expect that many responses that quickly. A true testament to mtw's continued following.

In just the past few days I've been playing quite a bit again...getting refamiliar with the units, strategies etc again.

Regarding gunpowder units: This is a massive difference between MTW and M2TW indeed. I have some issues with M2TW and how it does the "discover americas" timeperiod. One of them has to do with gunpowder units...they're simply not portrayed accurately in the 1350 beyond period. It's an entirely different ballgame to have the 1400+ endgame taking place on European soil with full gunpowder rosters in place, but realistic performance from them than to have 1400+ be portrayed on American/South American soil with the same gunpowder units, only minus any "realism" traits. Just like you said...you could sit there firing cannons and handguns in a DRENCHING rainstorm with high winds or alternately in a blinding blizzard. This is massively unrealistic and takes away a major strategic element to designing medieval armies and planning campaigns in the Late Medieval period. If you simply cannot bring any more troops up the the front in a major war and you wind up having to protect one of your flanks in a big battle with artillery and/or guns...a snow or rainstorm could mean an indefensible flank. With M2TW, this battle would instead feature an attacking army that has logistically gained the upper hand, now having to face the "uphill battle" of attacking in a rain/snow storm while under artillery/gun fire. You go from a situation where the defenders were logistically defeated and should have had poor odds in the battle to a situation where the attacking army now has to face Hamburger Hill. It's just not realistic.

Further, and I could go on and on...conflicts are just larger in scale in MTW than M2TW. 10,000+ man battles (on each SIDE) are relatively common from relatively early on in MTW. Additionally, large scale conflicts featuring multiple enemies/allies (in effect, coalitions) happen at a realistic pace in MTW. It was quite common to have allies from different factions fighting on the same side of a battle in Medieval times, not just during Crusades. M2TW is almost like Rome in it's alliance/diplomatic department and this does not accurately portray the medieval period.

Also, and I AM trying to wrap this post up heh: A lot of the strategy, when using the 3D campaign map, is "altered". Let me clarify: Instead of defending a small town or forest/treeline on the battlefield, you do it on the campaign map. You physically see the trees and can place your unit on the campaign map, in the tree line. In MTW, you wouldn't get to this logistic decision until you had your army spread out in it's camp on the battlefield. The field is large enough that manuevering can take place for quite a while before the actual battle begins, which was very common in Medieval warfare. Instead of getting the chance to see the enemies troop movements on the campaign map and split your army there, you have to make the decision to split your army on the battlefield. Maybe take some pikeman and cavalry and create a "bottleneck" in a valley or force the enemy to move through a church/small village to attack your units, breaking their formation slightly. Obviously, the possibilities go on and on. In my mind, these decisions/actions being done on the battlefield, from camp, is much more realistic than having the ability to do all of this from the 3D campaign map before you've ever even fully assembled your army. If that makes sense :inquisitive:

And for now, the last thing is the length of the battles themselves. In just custom battles that I've set up (very realistic/balanced, on Hard difficulty) I'd say the average battle between 2 armies is about 15 minutes, with the shortest 7-8 minutes and the longest up to 1 1/2 - 2 HOURS! These are just custom battles too. In M2TW you could never avoid the chain routing (started in RTW) long enough to have a battle of that length. In MTW, units might rout, but reorganize a defensive position literally a MILE back from the battle lines. This "resurgence" could restart the battle...with both armies having to reposition and "square off" in a 2nd round of pitched battle. In M2TW battles just don't go this way...ever. Not to even mention the way reinforcements are handled and having 10+ reinforcement units waiting on each side almost guarantees a LONG, drawn out strategic battle in MTW.

Anyway, for now...I leave it at that. Just a few days on MTW again and I am totally reimpressed with the game. To think that this was what we had in 2002 really puts the current market in perspective and puts the achievements of this game into perspective. I honestly don't know of another game that could inspire this level of conversation almost 6 years after it released. I mean, we're talking about the life span of Everquest...heh.

[Martok]

Thank you for everyone who replied to me and again...wow. I didn't expect that many responses that quickly. A true testament to mtw's continued following.
What can I say? When it comes to MTW, we're a pretty rabid lot. ~;p


Regarding gunpowder units: This is a massive difference between MTW and M2TW indeed. I have some issues with M2TW and how it does the "discover americas" timeperiod. One of them has to do with gunpowder units...they're simply not portrayed accurately in the 1350 beyond period. It's an entirely different ballgame to have the 1400+ endgame taking place on European soil with full gunpowder rosters in place, but realistic performance from them than to have 1400+ be portrayed on American/South American soil with the same gunpowder units, only minus any "realism" traits. Just like you said...you could sit there firing cannons and handguns in a DRENCHING rainstorm with high winds or alternately in a blinding blizzard. This is massively unrealistic and takes away a major strategic element to designing medieval armies and planning campaigns in the Late Medieval period. If you simply cannot bring any more troops up the the front in a major war and you wind up having to protect one of your flanks in a big battle with artillery and/or guns...a snow or rainstorm could mean an indefensible flank. With M2TW, this battle would instead feature an attacking army that has logistically gained the upper hand, now having to face the "uphill battle" of attacking in a rain/snow storm while under artillery/gun fire. You go from a situation where the defenders were logistically defeated and should have had poor odds in the battle to a situation where the attacking army now has to face Hamburger Hill. It's just not realistic.
Interesting; I wasn't aware of that. I'd not played Medieval 2 enough to have made that discovery (and am thus even more glad that I never picked it up). Does weather have any effect on battles at all then?


Further, and I could go on and on...conflicts are just larger in scale in MTW than M2TW. 10,000+ man battles (on each SIDE) are relatively common from relatively early on in MTW. Additionally, large scale conflicts featuring multiple enemies/allies (in effect, coalitions) happen at a realistic pace in MTW. It was quite common to have allies from different factions fighting on the same side of a battle in Medieval times, not just during Crusades. M2TW is almost like Rome in it's alliance/diplomatic department and this does not accurately portray the medieval period.
In fairness, I have to say I'm not sure the diplomacy in MTW is really that much better -- and even if it is, I think it's more because of a happy coincidence than by actual design. Alliances and peace treaties in MTW are still broken for the flimsiest of reasons/excuses....and usually it ends up being to the detriment of the AI-controlled faction.

As for the coalitions in MTW, I agree they're a nice effect. Even with coalitions, however, there's a bit of a problem: They tend to wait too long to attack the larger faction, particularly if the larger faction is myself. By the time a coalition actually gets around to ganging up on me, they're often too weak to have any real chance of winning. That said, I still appreciate the feature. It makes a certain amount of sense that smaller factions would band together against a larger, more powerful one. I also like that coalitions will beat up on the "Big Guy" regardless of whether the superpower in question is controlled by the human or AI -- I've been part of a coalition almost as often as I've been the Big Guy. :yes:


And for now, the last thing is the length of the battles themselves. In just custom battles that I've set up (very realistic/balanced, on Hard difficulty) I'd say the average battle between 2 armies is about 15 minutes, with the shortest 7-8 minutes and the longest up to 1 1/2 - 2 HOURS! These are just custom battles too. In M2TW you could never avoid the chain routing (started in RTW) long enough to have a battle of that length. In MTW, units might rout, but reorganize a defensive position literally a MILE back from the battle lines. This "resurgence" could restart the battle...with both armies having to reposition and "square off" in a 2nd round of pitched battle. In M2TW battles just don't go this way...ever. Not to even mention the way reinforcements are handled and having 10+ reinforcement units waiting on each side almost guarantees a LONG, drawn out strategic battle in MTW.
You've highlighted one of the things that bothers me most about combat in Rome and M2TW: it's far too short. I don't think I ever had a battle in either of those games last more than 10 minutes or so. That's hardly enough time to maneuver around or use actual tactics! Yet another reason MTW and Shogun will always be superior.


Anyway, for now...I leave it at that. Just a few days on MTW again and I am totally reimpressed with the game. To think that this was what we had in 2002 really puts the current market in perspective and puts the achievements of this game into perspective. I honestly don't know of another game that could inspire this level of conversation almost 6 years after it released. I mean, we're talking about the life span of Everquest...heh.
Indeed. Relatively speaking, there's very few games out there that have this kind of longevity. I feel very fortunate that MTW is one of them. ~:)

[ArtistofEmpires]

What can I say? When it comes to MTW, we're a pretty rabid lot. ~;p


Interesting; I wasn't aware of that. I'd not played Medieval 2 enough to have made that discovery (and am thus even more glad that I never picked it up). Does weather have any effect on battles at all then?


In fairness, I have to say I'm not sure the diplomacy in MTW is really that much better -- and even if it is, I think it's more because of a happy coincidence than by actual design. Alliances and peace treaties in MTW are still broken for the flimsiest of reasons/excuses....and usually it ends up being to the detriment of the AI-controlled faction.

As for the coalitions in MTW, I agree they're a nice effect. Even with coalitions, however, there's a bit of a problem: They tend to wait too long to attack the larger faction, particularly if the larger faction is myself. By the time a coalition actually gets around to ganging up on me, they're often too weak to have any real chance of winning. That said, I still appreciate the feature. It makes a certain amount of sense that smaller factions would band together against a larger, more powerful one. I also like that coalitions will beat up on the "Big Guy" regardless of whether the superpower in question is controlled by the human or AI -- I've been part of a coalition almost as often as I've been the Big Guy. :yes:


You've highlighted one of the things that bothers me most about combat in Rome and M2TW: it's far too short. I don't think I ever had a battle in either of those games last more than 10 minutes or so. That's hardly enough time to maneuver around or use actual tactics! Yet another reason MTW and Shogun will always be superior.


Indeed. Relatively speaking, there's very few games out there that have this kind of longevity. I feel very fortunate that MTW is one of them. ~:)

Hey Martok...thanks for the reply/comments. Appreciated. I always remember being able to talk/post about MTW more than any other game and well, I guess I'm falling "write" back into my old habit...:book:

Continuing the discussion:

I guess the best way to answer you regarding M2TW weather effects is that they operate basically the same way they did in Rome. This brings up other things...like "weather" itself, and how extreme it gets. There are few times that you are actually caught in a raging STORM in Rome or M2TW. It will either rain or snow, heavy or light, and that's about it. Wind, lightening, mixed precipitation, these things rarely if ever occur in Rome and M2TW let alone have a clear effect on battle. This all ties into something else extremely important: Visibility. Come on, how many times does visibility factor into a battle in Rome and M2TW? In MTW you can literally LOSE thousands of either enemy or allied units. They won't be visible on your screen and they will vanish from the "radar" map provided in the upper left. You can have point blank zero visibility conditions in MTW. Further, as we said...battles are over on average, in 3 minutes in Rome and M2. A 2 stack Vs. 2 stack battle won't even occur in M2TW...it will be broken up into 2 or more battles...not 1 large one with reinforcements. Keeping that in mind for a moment, think about how weather changes over time during a battle in MTW...now think about Rome (M2 is again, virtually identical to Rome in this regard). A battle never lasts long enough in Rome to have multiple weather scenarios, changing over time with different effects. Again, it's either raining or snowing, heavy or light. White or green ground. It's virtually just asthetic. You can fire flaming arrows, have culverins pumping and use gunpowder in the "snowstorm" in 1375, while technically in modern day New York USA while playing M2TW. Just not possible...on multiple accounts. See what I'm saying? I know this is horribly garbled, but I'm trying to just "quick response" believe that or not heh.

Real quick to reiterate/expand on a couple of points: Battles in MTW may last, just for example, 1 hour and 15 minutes (more than rarely) once you hit the High period beyond (most of the game). You will, many times, deal with a battle that begins with low visibility, high winds, vivid lightening, and drenching, drenching rains. Gradually, the storm may die down and you may eventually (30 minutes into battle) be dealing with cloudy skies, no rain, no wind and normal visibility. Let's just say this is a French V English battle. Let's just say it's been a HARD first 30 minutes in the battle, infantry massed in centre. All of a sudden, a good commander is going to, upon the rain stopping, bring forward his units of longbows and start unleashing arrows into the enemy infantry...a tactic unusable prior to the rain stopping. We never get into this with M2. It just doesn't happen. And it should...this is how medieval warfare was.

Now, the bottom line is that weather effects are just watered down in Rome and M2TW when compared to MTW. You may still have the "less effective" stats on gunpowder units in rain/snow on M2 (not positive) but you're never dealing with a logistical disadvantage or scrapping of plans due to the weather in the newer editions of total war. It's just not something that one has to be concerned about often, and when they do...never to the extent that they would have to in MTW. Further, nightfighting changes little except the fact that a few units/generals can attain bonuses in nightfights. That's nothing logistical compared to the examples highlighted above as seen in MTW. I mean again...just think about nothing extreme, but an assault on an enemy highground in MTW, with just rain falling. No wind, mixing, cold, nothing but moderate rain. It changes things...it really does. In Rome/M2 it really doesn't. I could still crush you with bows/guns or artillery if I brought it and used it appropriately. In M2, ranged/missile units are MUTED in this rain. Lastly, for now heh...a couple other things to mention are the frequency of storms (again, not nearly as often as in MTW) and the simple fact that commanding units of men is harder in MTW due to the fact that more factors bear on troop morale, and with a larger influence. Effective artillery is debilitating to morale in MTW, but does not result in a chain route. Dead generals are common in M2 and Rome...they're catastrophic in MTW. Enemy AI protects their artillery and missle positions and even entrenches artillery in appropriate places (woodlines, protected lowgrounds/highgrounds etc). To simply LOSE these options during a battle that started out with their presence, because of a sudden change of weather out of nowhere is realistic, and again...not a minor issue to an army. Not to even mention the costs of training those units and the time/cost/etc of getting them to the front, for the battle. We're skipping so many things too...like cannons blowing up or how far cannon balls/artillery fire "roll" after hitting the ground (they almost disappear in rome and medieval2...when this was usually their most devestating time...not the 3 square feet in which the ordinance landed). This is more accurately portrayed in original MTW.

This goes much, much deeper than it seems at first glance and again...this is just the weather we're talking about here.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

interesting / good points brought up

Once again it's important to mention the Gunpowder (& Flamming arrows, etc), in Rain, not only is it very unrealistic, but it completely changes the way you play the game, as you don't see it as much of a disadvantage, so as result you can field your entire army with musketeers, and even if it's pouring down with heavy rain and wind, you wouldn't blink, becuase you'd know they would fire no matter what.

In Shogun & MTW, due to the realism of weather (no more than light drizzle and light winds), you know you can never field a whole army of gunpowder troops, unless you are guaranteed a calm dry day. Because if it rains hard, you might as well throw those weapons away and whip out your swords. (Unless the rain dies down as mentioned above, and so the tactic would be told hold up the battle and retreat your troops far away in the field to play for time). As I mentioned before this is why I am always wary about picking many gunpowder units in the high era, and this is exactly how it should be. They have the advantage of scaring the enemy from the sound and smoke, but they have the huge disadvantage of being useless in rain (long range). And I get annoyed about how this is ignored in M2TW

Also interesting about the battle times, I've never really counted how long the battles can be, so am not sure of the comparisons, although so far the longest battles I've had have been in MTW / VI & Shogun, one was at least 50 minutes long I think, as both sides kept retreating (but not fully), so it took time to get men assembled together and to march towards the enemy.

I'm not sure in which game the ambush factor works well, as for example Sherwood Archers in M2TW are supposed to be very effective? I know often in MTW & Shogun, ambushing works very well, and can quickly demoralize the enemy, if you surprise them with a large force charging towards them.

P.S, for any of those who haven't tried Shogun, I strongly recommend it, bought it recently, and it's really great, has the best atmosphere, and I can def. see why CA chose it as the first TW game,

[Brandy Blue]

interesting / good points brought up

Once again it's important to mention the Gunpowder (& Flamming arrows, etc), in Rain, not only is it very unrealistic, but it completely changes the way you play the game... even if it's pouring down with heavy rain and wind, you wouldn't blink, becuase you'd know they would fire no matter what.


I never tried MTW2, but I assume you can turn off fire at will for your gunpowder units? Then you can simply never order them to shoot when you think the weather is too bad. That's not a great answer, I admit, but it might be better than nothing.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

yep you can do that

but for realism they would have to be either taken out of battle completely (if you thought the day would mostly be bad weather)

or put them far back (near the safety line), so they *could* used be later when the weather dies down, (and have them disabled on fire at will), although to be honest when playing M2TW I often won't do that, and will just keep using them (guess I'm taking advantage of the unrealism) but in Shogun & MTW it's a completely different ball game, and I always have to think hard about buying and using gunpowder units.

[Innocentius]

To be honest I'm not playing MTW at all right now, and haven't been playing for about a month or more, but that has to do with the "decay" of my computer rather than me losing interest in the game. I've sensed it's death coming for more than a year, and right now I'm at a point where I can't do anything on it other than browse the Internet and listen to music. Unfortunately, I can't afford a new one right now, so it might take a while before I can get back to playing:no:

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

sorry to hear that ~:(

[Ayachuco]

I know how you feel but I believe it will make it better when you can once again plaw MTW. It took me a year and a half before I got a new computer to play MTW, go on internet, or even do some word processing. The break gave me a second wind/motivation and I play it everyday now. Screw MTW 2;
Clone armies w/o rocket launchers rock!!! :pokemon: is still cool!

[ULC]

Okay, I love MTW and all, but I have a few things to say...and oh yea this is a rant...

And the fact is, MTW could have been even better. I don't think many of the features would be hard to script that are in M2TW into MTW. For instance, the ability to move across another factions territory is in there, i.e. crusading/jihading, but rather make such an option for allied factions, such that when you move your stack onto an ally, you get the option of either declaring war or "just moving through". As for diplomacy, add a setup so that you could actually offer things in return for an alliance, and when you use the diplomat after you are allies, you could request the aformentioned faction to A) declare treaty null and void, B) ask them to join you in attacking another faction, or C)bequeth a gift to them of ???? florins.

Second, allow custom glory goals, such as set setfactiongoal, goalname, setgoalrequirements, setdatestart, and setdateend. That easy and even more people would flock to it.

Another things is armor upgrades and heat in the desert (which by the way I think is well potrayed). Armor upgrades could have had reduced fatigue levels in the desert, but right now they increase it. Then again, it would simply add more power to catholics.

And last but not least, the Unit animations. They could have split the files so that one had weapon files, shield files, and unit files. One could have then assembled them using a text document with references that the Unitproduction would simlpy look up. Also, they could have put more time into the unit graphics, or have recruited DJ :2thumbsup: (either/or). Still, the fact that you don't have to an expert in graphics is a real bonus.

....end Rant.

[Kaidonni]

YourLordandConqueror, I believe it'd be accurate to portray armour increasing fatigue levels in the desert. Imagine that you'd just been given brand new armour, where as you'd worn none before - and now imagine you're being sent to a dry, searing desert environment in said armour. It'll trap the heat, and you'll sweat profusely. Even without it, but less so. That'll exhaust you. Of course, you said it was well portrayed, so you're probably aware of all this already.

So, why do you think the armour should reduce fatigue in the desert?

Hope this isn't coming off as cocky or arrogant or serious or anything...

[Noir]

heh - MTW is in all probability drawing its last few breaths.

This forum is one of the few active tubes that still pump blood to its old, anemic community heart.

Martok and the .org as a forum, as well as the patrons here with their dedication and enthusiasm to the game make all this possible. May they all be blessed and favoured by the great Camelord himself :laugh4:

[ULC]

Sorry, what I meant was fatigue in general, not fatigue through armor upgrades. Armor upgrades represent (in my mind at least) improved armor, not just more armor. Thus, gold armor means well crafted armor of the finest quality, and therefore was both light and and durable, as was gothic armor (especially the milanese variety). As right now, the extra fatigue seems to represent EXTRA layers, and not improved armor.

And Noir, your too much of a pessimist...

[Martok]

@Innocentius: Sorry to hear about your computer, mate. As someone who's been having ongoing PC difficulties for the last 6 months, you have my full sympathy. Here's to hoping you're not "off the grid" for too long! :sweatdrop:


heh - MTW is in all probability drawing its last few breaths.

This forum is one of the few active tubes that still pump blood to its old, anemic community heart.
I concur with YLC in that I believe you're probably being a little pessimistic.

Granted the MTW community is obviously nowhere near as large as it used to be, but it's hardly dying either. In the last three years (which is when I became more active at the Org), the number of people visiting the Medieval forums both here and at the official site has actually remained pretty steady. This is partially due to the game's ability to retain long-term players (such as Caravel and myself), but it's also partially because new people are constantly "discovering" MTW for the first time. So even when members either quit playing the game (or leave the forums entirely), there's usually someone else that ends up taking their place.

Will this cycle continue indefinitely? Quite possibly not. I concede it might happen that eventually see a day when the MTW community shrinks to just myself and 2-3 other diehards. I'm quite confident it's going to be a good long while before that day comes, however. Like I indicated in my earlier post, the folks here tend be a rather stubborn lot -- myself included. ~:)


Martok and the .org as a forum, as well as the patrons here with their dedication and enthusiasm to the game make all this possible. May they all be blessed and favoured by the great Camelord himself :laugh4:
Indeed. May we all be favored with camel hordes from the mighty Mithrandir. :egypt:

[caravel]

Noir is correct in essence. MTW won't live forever, and it will eventually come down to myself and Martok posting about MTW with me changing my name every week to fool everyone into thinking there are more members than there are. :beam:

Well I doubt it will get that bad but I expect that it will get quieter as time goes on. Saying that, there are always a few new MTW players appearing on the scene here every week so it's not really in decline as such.

MTW is pretty much dead at the .com and it never really existed at the TWC anyway as it was an RTW era forum IIRC. Those places are not really of any interest as the former is basically the official support forum that serves the latest game, and CA, best and the latter is really an RTW/M2TW (and Mods) community forums.

The number of participants here is not important it is the fact that it does continue, with those characters that make it what it is, that matters.

At the end of the day, MTW (and STW) will still appeal to those that aren't much bothered about eye candy graphics, but just want a solid strategy game, that doesn't cost the earth, doesn't need the latest hardware to run it and can provide hours, weeks, months or in my case years of gameplay with a high reinstall factor and low uninstall factor.

[Noir]

MTW won't live forever, and it will eventually come down to myself and Martok posting about MTW with me changing my name every week to fool everyone into thinking there are more members than there are.

You forget myself and the mp crowd - there's still some backbone in MTW.

.com is dead - there are two regulars (danilonious & greyfox) and the admin (maedatoshiie). Maeda plays very occasionaly as far as i know.



The number of participants here is not important it is the fact that it does continue, with those characters that make it what it is, that matters.


agreed


Saying that, there are always a few new MTW players appearing on the scene here every week so it's not really in decline as such.


They are "mosquito" players as they say in Japan. Seasonal.

all in all - it had a good run.

When they put the last nail in the coffin i wont be the one staying unmoved.

[ULC]

Would that be a release of the Hard coded information? One could only hope then :clown: .

Not diving too deep into this, but by inference are you suggesting that STW is already dead?

[caravel]

They are "mosquito" players as they say in Japan. Seasonal.
A bit of a generalisation to say the least. Yes there are members that come and go, but not all. You have to remember that 99% of players probably don't post on any TW fan forum at all. So there are a lot of players out there that could potentially stumble upon this place one day.


all in all - it had a good run.

When they put the last nail in the coffin i wont be the one staying unmoved.
You seem rather final in your statements? Have you finally decided to move on to one of the newer engine TW games?

[Noir]

Not diving too deep into this, but by inference are you suggesting that STW is already dead?

Yes - but not for those that still love and appreciate it.

For those it will "never die" - heh.

[Noir]

A bit of a generalisation to say the least.

maybe so, and yet it holds a certain amount of truth. Not that i meant it in a bad manner - they are very decent members and most welcome.


You seem rather final in your statements? Have you finally decided to move on to one of the newer engine TW games?

Not in the slightest bit - its just that i cannot afford to be optimistic these days - heh.

[caravel]

Ok - heh.

:bow:

[Noir]

heh - you seem playful and picking up on things rather fast lately mighty Cambyses. Something good in your life it seems. Glad to see you alive and kicking.

Ask CBR - among revealing you the secrets of TW in fullest, he'll also explain what i call the "secret charm of - heh" - heh.

[caravel]

The days of heh are numbered, GAH! will rise again...

[Tony Furze]

Im still around-an old(er) guy who came a bit late to MTW, so I ve got some staying power and goofy questions. I got to Shogun after MTW.

I ve been having problems:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=92051

which have now been ironed out thanks to the guys in the hardware forum.

I ll be interested in MTW for quite some time to come-I have RTW but I never really play it.

[Noir]

Good to see you around Tony - how is the Mrs?

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
After the disappointment with M2TW, I'll return to MTW-VI too. I may even release that ancient Modlet with as much data as I can recover but first I need to wrestle and squash EUIII. :charge:
.

[Noir]

After the disappointment with M2TW...

ETW will be out in a year or so - there's always room for improvement (in dissapointment).

Welcome back

[Ayachuco]

.
After the disappointment with M2TW, I'll return to MTW-VI too. I may even release that ancient Modlet with as much data as I can recover but first I need to wrestle and squash EUIII. :charge:
.
I am also playing EU III but after four kings and two regency councils, I am tired of launching an English War of Aggression against the French. Esp. since the French have gain the kingdom of burgundy through royal marriage. So now I will start to play MTW again esp. with the XL mod I just downloaded yesterday.

[Martok]

The number of participants here is not important it is the fact that it does continue, with those characters that make it what it is, that matters.

At the end of the day, MTW (and STW) will still appeal to those that aren't much bothered about eye candy graphics, but just want a solid strategy game, that doesn't cost the earth, doesn't need the latest hardware to run it and can provide hours, weeks, months or in my case years of gameplay with a high reinstall factor and low uninstall factor.
Truer words were rarely spoken. :yes: Even if the community were to dwindle to almost nothing -- and I'm still comfortable stating that that day is a good ways off -- it won't matter so long as people are still playing the game. Indeed, I know at least two of my friends still play MTW; but neither of whom have ever posted even once on any Total War message board.


.
After the disappointment with M2TW, I'll return to MTW-VI too. I may even release that ancient Modlet with as much data as I can recover but first I need to wrestle and squash EUIII. :charge:
.
Hey Mouza, good to see you here again mate; it'll be great to have your around these parts again. ~:cheers: What modlet is that you're referring to, by the way? I confess I'm ignorant of the project you were working on.

@ Tony Furze: Welcome back to you as well, man. I hope all is well with you and yours. ~:)

[Tony Furze]

Noir: thanks for the concern. She s well now.


Martok: Thanks for the re-welcome-always good to see you here and at the other forum.

[seireikhaan]

Heh, long live MTW! Never yet have I had a game give me so many hours of entertainment, and unlike many games, it actually involves coherent thought process rather than "see enemy run. see enemy shoot. shoot enemy back". I'll confess I've pretty much never played RTW or M2TW, but from what I've heard from many of the MTW and STW faithful, I doubt I ever will want to play them. So pardon me, modern gamers, but I'll stick with my outdated game on my outdated computer, and have much more fun than you ever could comprehend on your $1k model with modern games riddled with glitzy graphics, brain-dead AI, and numerous bugs and glitches.

[Passatempo]

The original MTW is one of the best games ive ever played. Ive played RTW and(in my opinion) MTW is a lot better than RTW...
i can't resist playing this game again and again

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Hey Mouza, good to see you here again mate; it'll be great to have your around these parts again. ~:cheers: What modlet is that you're referring to, by the way? I confess I'm ignorant of the project you were working on.
Thanks for the welcome. :bow:

Here is the original thread for Modlet I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31825). It evolved very much from that point on, with most valuable contributions of Solo, Eastside Character, Tricky Lady, PseRamesses, Dead Moroz, later Forgus and many others. A considerable database of accurate namelists were made. Unfortunately the ad-sponsored host demolished the forum and I lost my backup together with the latest progress in an HD crash. ~:mecry:

Worst of all, I lost contact with Solo, who quit TotalWar. He might have made a backup of the forum database.
.

[TosaInu]

Hello Mouzafphaerre.

[Kaidonni]

Yep, MTW is the legend of legends when it comes to games. I'm playing an Aragonese/Early/Hard/GA/XL mod campaign right now, and even though the game is more abstracted than later TW games, guess what? It's also more fun, because it leaves a lot more to the imagination, and the micro-management isn't too tedious.

Why, I've decided that to truly role-play the Reconquista, I must ally with (or try to) the Castile-Leonese and Portugal, presenting a united Iberia against the Moorish invaders. Fine, I might be a backstabbing moron later on, but the point is, that will also be part of the role-play - once the common enemy of the Iberian houses is of little threat, what of their friendship? Obviously each of the three nations' kings will wish to be the King of all Spain, and without a common enemy, in-fighting will begin. Old alliances will be breached, for there is a new enemy - your old friend's lust for power becoming unchecked, threatening your very survival.

I even find role-play reasons for other alliances now. Some I turn down because the nation is a long way away, or not in the immediate vicinity, and therefore I will not take the decision to ally lightly. What would an alliance offer me? Taking smaller, more steady steps is wiser. But, well, the French? I border them, and want to keep the peace - and I like the French. Don't want to rile them. Same with the English - I want to be cordial with the bordering nations. The Scots? Well, they came highly recommended by the French royal court. Norway? They offered a marriage to Prince Sancho, and I saw it as a way to secure the future Aragonese bloodline. How polite of King Magnus III to propose that.

When England declared war on Scotland end of last turn, the French and Norwegian representatives stormed out of the discussions with the English, ending their alliance. So, I decided to follow suite, and stormed out too.

This makes my game more fun because I can imagine a whole new storyline to it. I even listen to the Lord of the Rings soundtracks and imagine these events in all their glory. The Almoravid hordes marching, the Iberian houses meeting them in battle, diplomats storming out of discussions, the Iberian kings celebrating the beginning of the triple alliance, etc.

[Noir]

How much i enjoyed your posts in the .com MTW forum Kaidonni - they basically, quite early and very systematically laid out all the worngs with RTW and all the rights of MTW. At the time i was trying to find a way to play RTW that it would be as pleasurable and enjoying as the older games.. in the end, after many mods, effort, blood sweat and tears i just quit, of course. I was posting in the .com as excetchzebe before moving over here and some time later change my username to Noir.

Now i enjoy MTW better than ever, and also have tasted many fruits that before were sort of "too high" for some reason for me, such as extensive home modding and multiplayer.

Both are worth it beyond words.

Noir

[Mouzafphaerre]

Hello Mouzafphaerre.
.
:bow:
.

[Kaidonni]

How much i enjoyed your posts in the .com MTW forum Kaidonni - they basically, quite early and very systematically laid out all the worngs with RTW and all the rights of MTW. At the time i was trying to find a way to play RTW that it would be as pleasurable and enjoying as the older games.. in the end, after many mods, effort, blood sweat and tears i just quit, of course. I was posting in the .com as excetchzebe before moving over here and some time later change my username to Noir.

Now i enjoy MTW better than ever, and also have tasted many fruits that before were sort of "too high" for some reason for me, such as extensive home modding and multiplayer.

Both are worth it beyond words.

Noir

Hmmm...you mean the official forums for MTW and the other games? I can't remember much about my posts there (but since as I really only know of one Kaidonni ever posting on forums I go in, and that is me, it probably was me :laugh4:...or my evil twin...sorry, I mean good twin :laugh4:).

I liked RTW, but eventually the micromanagement (and compulsive obsessive disorder I have) made it too tedious. Especially reading my characters' traits. MTW is so much more friendly. M2TW I just couldn't get into. Extortionate costs on buildings and units, especially upkeep, and unappealing distances to travel to conquer. As for the mods...extortionate costs once again, and I do hope I can get to play once I've understood what exactly my character can or can't do from his/her 101 traits. LOL!

MTW is not too abstract, not too complex. Just right. It has atmosphere and presence. Not that I mind expanding on many concepts, and I feel RTW gave it a shot. M2TW is just...not me. Hopefully Empires will be better, but...meh...

The role-playing is good for the soul, too, in MTW.

[caravel]

I hated the retinues and transferring them around. I would always forget to transfer the drunken uncles across to an old family member. :wall:

This kind of jiggery pokery doesn't really add to gameplay.

[Jxrc]

The original MTW is one of the best games ive ever played. Ive played RTW and(in my opinion) MTW is a lot better than RTW...
i can't resist playing this game again and again

Same for me. Got the vanilla version when it first came out and keep coming back at it (with VI) every year.

Game mechanics are good, atmosphere is great ... who cares about the graphics as long as it looks about ok.

RTW had much improved graphics but I only played it five times I would not be surprised if people stop playing that game before MTW.

Nice graphics will remain an asset for a while (until someone manages to make something more flashy) whereas a good game remains a good game for as long as the graphics have not become repulsive enough to stop anyone from giving it a go.

Most games I still play from time to time are oldies (Baldur's gate, Steel Panther, Panzer General, Civ II, MTW) no younger player in his right would probably even look at but, WTF, as long as I still have fun ...

Probably MTW is just some kind of vintage stuff!!!

[Noir]

Hmmm...you mean the official forums for MTW and the other games? I can't remember much about my posts there (but since as I really only know of one Kaidonni ever posting on forums I go in, and that is me, it probably was me ...or my evil twin...sorry, I mean good twin ).


I see... we are feigning innocence now, eh? :laugh4:


I hated the retinues and transferring them around. I would always forget to transfer the drunken uncles across to an old family member.

i remember in one of my first Brutii campaigns what was going on after you had 30 settlements or so... impossible to keep an eye in 30 family members spread over the ancient world.

Sometimes i was trying to concentrate all the "bad" ones in a character or two that i had for that business - pretty busy guys - constantly on the road
and all - but they had plenty to keep them occupied - :laugh4:

[Ludens]

Welcome back, Mouzafphaerre. Glad to see that you are still playing.

[Kaidonni]

I don't care about the graphics. Sometimes one might feel it's a bit lacking in areas (I feel that sometimes about the campaign map province art), but this soon passes over, because it's still atmospheric and has presence. I like pressing shift because I can see exactly what I own (my provinces don't go below 100% loyalty...I don't let them), and it's just so nice to see it all. I feel like it's my nation, what I've built from all that blood, sweat and tears. Like it is a sovereign power. Right now, for example, Aragon seems so small...but it is quaint, and the beast within is stirring. It's already a very artistic game as it is. The 3D art from RTW and M2TW doesn't have as much personality (you'd have to download mods to get better art), although it'd be great to get the assassination/spying/sabotage/marriage movies in MTW...I was amazed the first time I saw them in M2TW...and I've seen some of Shogun's via links (hehe...assassins, the deadly, or dead, jesters of the Medieval underworld...).

[Martok]

.

Thanks for the welcome. :bow:

Here is the original thread for Modlet I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31825). It evolved very much from that point on, with most valuable contributions of Solo, Eastside Character, Tricky Lady, PseRamesses, Dead Moroz, later Forgus and many others. A considerable database of accurate namelists were made. Unfortunately the ad-sponsored host demolished the forum and I lost my backup together with the latest progress in an HD crash. ~:mecry:

Worst of all, I lost contact with Solo, who quit TotalWar. He might have made a backup of the forum database.
.
A pity you lost so much of the data. My sympathies, mate. :sad: I would encourage you to take a look at the Pocket Mod (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=228); I think it might be of interest to you. It's not so much of an expansion per se, as it is making a number of changes to the existing game. It's being headed up by Caravel/Cambyses II -- I myself am useless at modding, so I just mainly serve as the project's "cheerleader". ~;p

Kaidonni reminded me of another aspect of MTW that I enjoy so much: roleplaying. While I roleplay in most of my strategy games to a certain degree, I probably do so in MTW more than any other title I own. Indeed, there's so much flavor & atmosphere in the game that I can hardly *not* roleplay fairly heavily. ~;)

I know I haven't done so very often, but when I have posted my campaign stories in the Pics & History (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=47087) thread, it usually seems to end up reading like a chapter in a book with narrative between & among various characters. What's insane is that I usually don't have to try ver heard to come up with the dialogue, because it's often at least half-formed in my head already. My point being that when I play MTW, my brain often has "written" out the events in story mode without me even realizing it, which is very satisfying for me -- in my experience, my favorite games usually play out as a narrative tale unfolding as it goes along. Therefore it's a small wonder I enjoy MTW so much!

[Kaidonni]

My role-playing has continued...I mean, last night, I received word that a Portuguese fleet and a Moorish fleet have engaged in combat...information is not forthcoming on this issue, it seems there are two accounts of what happened. The first is that the Portuguese fleet commander let his hatred of the Moors get the better of him, and made a rash act, attacking the Moors. The second is that there were informers amongst the ranks of each of the Iberian houses, or at least one of them, and the Moors found out about our plans that way...regardless, El Cid of Aragon can only wait a few turns more for additional soldiers, and then he must march on the Black Gate...sorry, I mean Murcia :laugh4:. Lord Sauron's forces...I mean, sorry, Khalifah Al Mustali I's forces, are gathering strength, and a dark cloud lies over Iberia. :laugh4:

Hehe...that's the sort of thing I imagine. I foolishly built El Cid's army up in Valencia, so the Almoravids (I keep referring to them as the Moors here...sounds cooler, anyway, and more foreboding) responded by placing a large army in Murcia. Rather than blame myself for poor decision making, I can role play it so that somehow, the Moors found out about this army, and responded in kind. I move El Cid to Aragon - well, to see if I can't trick the Moors. I even imagine that there are 'accounts' of in-fighting between the Iberian houses to deceive the Moors for a while longer, to see if they don't take my army seriously. Unfortunately, the Reconquista has started sooner than I would have liked, but I must move on Murcia. My fleet isn't sufficient, but cutting off the Moorish Khalifah from his Iberian holdings, and cutting off reinforcements from Northern Africa, might be a very decisive move.

See? You just can't do these same things in RTW and M2TW. I like the chess-style campaign map for these reasons. It's so strategic and tactical. I also like the way sea regions are handled - in XL, the AI handles ships well - some of the time, anyway. I just can't describe the feeling I get from the map's mechanics...

Of course, I merely went back to MTW for a dive into nostalgia last Summer. I never realised it'd be this much fun. All those years ago, in 2002, when I first delved into the world of Total War...I hadn't the foggiest of what the heck I was doing. I loved the game, but it died into obscurity. My next foray into TW was with Rome, which was great for a time.

I remember a Byzantine campaign from the good old days...bribing just about every rebel general and forging a massive empire that way. And continuously losing Constantinople to the Eggies each turn, and bribing it back each turn or so. LOL! That was one campaign where, magically, I didn't get negative income for some reason :laugh4:. I just could never figure out how to keep in positive income for the most part...or how to stop assassins...LOL! I was totally clueless. Heh...Clueless: Total War - lead such greats as Inspector Morse or Sherlock Holmes into battle against devious murderers lurking in the shadows; command hundreds of different law-enforcement officers, including the Bobby; employ weapons such as the siren or baton in battle; a campaign spanning entire rural areas and boroughs of London...LOL!

[Glyndwr in the Soke]

Ahem...
Regarding MTW's continued existence:

I have not found a thread on the effects of Vista on the two old games, so could you either point me that way or tell me whether Microsoft's latest will pose a threat to my playing of this, the best installment of the TW games? Of course, that would also endanger MTW on the whole, would it not?

Sorry if I have overlooked a thread, but my search was inconclusive.

[Martok]

Lord Sauron's forces...I mean, sorry, Khalifah Al Mustali I's forces, are gathering strength, and a dark cloud lies over Iberia. :laugh4:
:laugh4: I wish you luck as you prepare to resist the might of Mord...er, I mean the Caliphate. ~;p


Ahem...
Regarding MTW's continued existence:

I have not found a thread on the effects of Vista on the two old games, so could you either point me that way or tell me whether Microsoft's latest will pose a threat to my playing of this, the best installment of the TW games? Of course, that would also endanger MTW on the whole, would it not?

Sorry if I have overlooked a thread, but my search was inconclusive.
I recall reading over at the official forums that at least a couple people have had issues playing MTW on Vista, but I don't know whether it's truly a widespread problem or it it's just limited to an unfortunate few.

To be honest, I suspect you may have a hard time finding someone to really answer to your question. Many people who play MTW -- indeed, maybe even most of us -- have older machines, and therefore wouldn't bother to get Vista in the first place. And for those of us (like myself) who have newer PC's capable of running Vista, many are sticking with XP anyway (heck, there's probably folks here who still have Windows 98). Most of us probably see no real reason to change.

I myself will probably never purchase Vista in any case. I play too many older games (from before 2000) that wouldn't run on Vista for it to be worthwhile for me to ever get it. :yes:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Ludens, well met indeed. :bow:

Martok, thanks for pointing out the Pocket Mod; I'll give it a try at first chance. :bow:
.

[Noir]

I think Tomisama and JochiKhan had similar troubles with Vista, but they both came over them, since they now play SWs for MTW/VI MP regularly.

This thread in the Jousting fields might help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86491

Noir

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I would keep away from Vista at any rate. Switching operating systems without any pressing reason will do more harm than a semi-incomplete TW game. ~;)
.

[Kaidonni]

:laugh4: I wish you luck as you prepare to resist the might of Mord...er, I mean the Caliphate. ~;p

I will need that luck! :dizzy2:

The Castile-Leonese still have not acted...I fear that the Steward of Gondor...sorry, I mean King Alfonso VI, does not take the Dark Lord's...*ahem*, Khalifah Yusuf I's threat that seriously (I said Al Mustali I before...I was kind of off...).

The Portuguese have only gone and got themselves wiped out, too! :oops:

I did a little mess around to see if moving my ships would have changed the latter (seeing if I could cut the Khalifah off from his lands via blockading the Straits of Gilbraltar), but seeing what would happen was that nothing would change and my fleet would be crushed, so I resumed normal play. The sacrifices of Portugal shall not be in vain!

It looks like Spain will soon see the Return of it's King...King Sancho I! I hope...:sweatdrop:

:furious3:Almoravids! Grah!:furious3: :furious3: :wall: :wall:

[Jochi Khan]

I think Tomisama and JochiKhan had similar troubles with Vista, but they both came over them, since they now play SWs for MTW/VI MP regularly.

This thread in the Jousting fields might help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86491

Noir

For clarification: It was Tomisama who had the problem, Orda Khan (not Jochi Khan) has not. See his reply here...https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1565878&postcount=3
It turned out to be the Graphics card.

I am using Windows XP.

[Noir]

i stand corrected

:bow:

[Glyndwr in the Soke]

Thanks for those threads.

I would personally also like to avoid Vista like the plague, but I might have to buy a laptop for work, and most of the models I have seen have Vista installed. :wall: :help: :wall: And I am not going to get another version of XP, just for that.

Perhaps I'll just be limited to work without being able to run my beloved games. I'll just have to take a chance. :undecided:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

.

Here is the original thread for Modlet I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31825). It evolved very much from that point on, with most valuable contributions of Solo, Eastside Character, Tricky Lady, PseRamesses, Dead Moroz, later Forgus and many others. A considerable database of accurate namelists were made. Unfortunately the ad-sponsored host demolished the forum and I lost my backup together with the latest progress in an HD crash. ~:mecry:

Worst of all, I lost contact with Solo, who quit TotalWar. He might have made a backup of the forum database.
.
I have great news! :2thumbsup:

I've just discovered that pretty much of what's supposed to have gone actually survived! A few dozens of namelists by Solo and others mentioned above are now on my HD. Today I worked long on implementing some of them -basically faction and province/town names and titles- and I'm going on.

Tomorrow I'll -hopefully- start a new job but I don't expect the schedule to be too tight. The office is a ten minute walk from home anyway. ~D So, expect the return of the infamous modlet in a few weeks or sooner. :balloon3:
.

[Zain]

Thanks for those threads.

I would personally also like to avoid Vista like the plague, but I might have to buy a laptop for work, and most of the models I have seen have Vista installed. :wall: :help: :wall: And I am not going to get another version of XP, just for that.

Perhaps I'll just be limited to work without being able to run my beloved games. I'll just have to take a chance. :undecided:

I recently bought a new computer with Vista on it. It's not as bad as most people are saying, if you computer has enough RAM and a good enough Processor.

Plus, might as well get used to it. I heard after Christmas this year they're going to stop installing XP onto computers and make them all Vista.

Just like they did with XP back when everyone hated it.

[Martok]

.

I have great news! :2thumbsup:

I've just discovered that pretty much of what's supposed to have gone actually survived! A few dozens of namelists by Solo and others mentioned above are now on my HD. Today I worked long on implementing some of them -basically faction and province/town names and titles- and I'm going on.

Tomorrow I'll -hopefully- start a new job but I don't expect the schedule to be too tight. The office is a ten minute walk from home anyway. ~D So, expect the return of the infamous modlet in a few weeks or sooner. :balloon3:
.
Outstanding, Mouza. Looking forward to seeing what you've got. :2thumbsup:

[Mouzafphaerre]

Outstanding, Mouza. Looking forward to seeing what you've got. :2thumbsup:
.
Thanks Martok. :bow: I hope it can live up to deserving your support.
.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

this is probably a stupid question

but in Campaign mode does the size of units change when you change it in the 'performance' section? i.e from default to huge,

if not, then I guess it only affects custom battles, also which setting do you guys usually play for (not sure if it affects campaign) also for STW, i.e 'default, large, or huge unit sizes'

[caravel]

Not a stupid question, it does change in campaign mode also. I play on huge unit size, but I appear to be one of the rare ones. Many play on default or large size.

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

ah thanks for the info

[caravel]

Off topic: I feel it is my duty to also point out that usernames do not have to be all one word, that is the (underscore) "_" characters are not needed. If you go to the usercp (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/usercp.php) and "edit username and password" you can change your username to exactly the same name without the underscores. This will also allow your long username to flow over two lines and resize dynamically according to a users browser settings and desktop resolution and prevemt it from deforming the post row.

:bow:

[Swiss Halberd Pike Landsknecht]

Off topic: I feel it is my duty to also point out that usernames do not have to be all one word, that is the (underscore) "_" characters are not needed. If you go to the usercp (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/usercp.php) and "edit username and password" you can change your username to exactly the same name without the underscores. This will also allow your long username to flow over two lines and resize dynamically according to a users browser settings and desktop resolution and prevemt it from deforming the post row.

:bow:

thanks didn't know that

:medievalcheers:

EDIT:

Wow didn't know that would happen, now it no longer takes up so much space, thank you

[caravel]

thanks didn't know that

:medievalcheers:

EDIT:

Wow didn't know that would happen, now it no longer takes up so much space, thank you

:bow:

[gaijinalways]

It is a great game, I still only own the vanilla version of MTW. I have been playing Railroad Tycoon II recently, but I know one day I'll load up another MTW game!

Many thanks to a lot fot eh veteran players here who have helped me in a few campaigns. I'll probably need help again as my last game was some time earlier this year (maybe last year) and I've probably forgotten how to play on expert level again!

[Martok]

and I've probably forgotten how to play on expert level again!
And then there are some of us who've never played on Expert at all.... :creep: :blush:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Just lost 10+ hours of gameplay to an unexpected CDT... ~:mecry: ~:mecry: ~:mecry:
.

[Martok]

Ouch, mate. That really smarts! I feel your pain, Mouza. :oops:

[Tart]

I still play MTW today and think it's by far my favourite TW game though I own all of them and the expansions. Sure, diplomacy is lacking but I absolutely adore the tabletop strategy aspect of the strat map. Rome had a wonderful battle engine but the stratmap for that was so disappointing so I always go back to MTW.

I just this past month finished an Italian, Turkish and Russian campaign and now my Danish one is gathering momentum having defeated the red fleet and taken Britain while the English were playing away in Germany. Time to expand ;)

[m52nickerson]

MTW will not go quietly into the night........at least not for me! I just starting playing again a few nights ago, and have had a couple of late night, blurry eye, one more turn sessions just like when it was new.

Long live the Polish Empire!
Long live unpredictable AI!
Long live the Horde!

LONG LIVE MEDIEVAL TOTAL WAR!

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
My current campaign is also Polish! :smash:
.

[edyzmedieval]

Come to think of it, I keep my copy of MTW bought in 2002 or 2003 as a sacred item. Inside it has everything, plus I crammed in the VI manual and the VI CD.

:sweatdrop:

[Frankymole]

Sorry, what I meant was fatigue in general, not fatigue through armor upgrades. Armor upgrades represent (in my mind at least) improved armor, not just more armor. Thus, gold armor means well crafted armor of the finest quality, and therefore was both light and and durable

Or could it mean full plate or part-plate armour instead of the hauberks of the 1080s? As time when on, the chivalrous encased themselves in more and more chainmail too... armour on the Third Crusade was a heck of a lot heavier than the leather jerkins of the First... despite being "upgrades".

[ArtistofWarfare]

You know...

I started this thread 3.5 months ago and during it, my computer had problems (how ironic, considering what's discussed in the thread heh).

Apologies, I never meant to appear rude by starting this thread and just disappearing like that.

Let me catch up on things around here a bit...heh.


Bottom Line? :2thumbsup: To this very moment, Original MTW Lives On!!

[BAD]

Not played the game in about 18 months, nor logged onto this forum for just as long. Been through all my games and nothing new out is catching my eye, lo-and-behold I spot a shortcut to XL-mod. . . here we go again. . .

~:cheers:

[Tristrem]

I haven't played any original mtw since I was living at home. Since moving to school, I've gotten a newer laptop and no matter what I try I can't get this game to run on my laptop. I know it has something to do with vista, and my evil graphics card that was also new and has no old drivers to fall back on. So until summer break I am without mtw. I've tried rome and m2tw and they just aren't the same to me, I never like the new campaign map.

I wish CA showed some love and make a new patch to get the game running on newer systems, and i didn't have to scour the depths of the internet in search of possible fixes.

whatever comes first, I find a fix that works, or I go home for summer break, I will regain some valuable playing time for this game on my old desktop.

[Martok]

Ouch, Tristrem! I feel your pain. :shame:


Welcome back, AristofWarfare! Good you to see you again. ~:wave:

[ArtistofWarfare]

Ouch, Tristrem! I feel your pain. :shame:


Welcome back, AristofWarfare! Good you to see you again. ~:wave:

Thank you...

Yeah, my pc had it's share of problems and I certainly hadn't planned on it so...it was a tad frustrating.

I'm actually considering starting up a campaign tonight...(MTW really is like a drug) :laugh4:

Thinking maybe huge units, hard difficulty...(perhaps expert, although I'm not in any way in MTW "shape" ...quite rusty).

[ArtistofWarfare]

Not played the game in about 18 months, nor logged onto this forum for just as long. Been through all my games and nothing new out is catching my eye, lo-and-behold I spot a shortcut to XL-mod. . . here we go again. . .

~:cheers:

Exactly...and so it begins :egypt:

lol...

To take from the song "Gimme Shelter": "It's just a 'click' away!!"

I see you posted this a day or two ago- Have you started ?

[BAD]

Exactly...and so it begins :egypt:

lol...

To take from the song "Gimme Shelter": "It's just a 'click' away!!"

I see you posted this a day or two ago- Have you started ?

Gonna start up an XL mod game. But I lost my modifies version of the unit prods. Gonna try and get them to as close as I had them before. Some of the unit support costs were stupid as I remember, like Chivalric footknights were nly just more expensive than peasants upkeep. :inquisitive: I also tweaked some morale stats and speeds.

:idea2: Though no doubt there is a new update for XL since I last played?

[Tristrem]

Ya, it hurts not having MTW for an extended period of time. Yesterday I sent an email to sega's technical support to maybe get some sort of official help. I'd be surprised if I get a useful response, but who knows?

As of right now, I've started a campaign as the eastern roman empire in broken cresent, and wei'll see how that goes

[Kaidonni]

Whenever I've tried to uninstall MTW, and I stress TRIED, I go cold turkey within a matter of days. No matter how peed off I've gotten at my perfectionism or restartitis, I just have to reinstall. Heck, I did it yesterday...uninstalled earlier this week, had to reinstall yesterday.

[Ironsword]

Emperor Ludwig put the chess piece down, but try as he might he couldn't put down the thought of the Papal states. How he coveted them!

- I know exactly how you feel. It has been back in its box and lent out for over two years! I got it back again just before Christmas and I am completely hooked again. I started with a simple English campaign, but I'm now loving starting as the smaller factions.
Doesn't bode well for my current two years of non-smoking!

[BAD]

O_o Where did all the replies go? Anyways I got my battlemode screen problem sorted. Seemed I had the resolution for battlemode at 726xSomething. I guess either my gfx card/driver didn't support that. Changed it to 800x600 and everything's fine-diney.

After all that repeated driver searching, installing, cleaning too. :wall:

Anyways thanks for the help. At least I learned some more PC crap. :book:

[Martok]

O_o Where did all the replies go?

Link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=98138)

I separated out yours (and caravel's) posts and made a separate thread just for you. Just trying to keep the current thread somewhat on topic. ~:)




Anyways I got my battlemode screen problem sorted. Seemed I had the resolution for battlemode at 726xSomething. I guess either my gfx card/driver didn't support that. Changed it to 800x600 and everything's fine-diney.

After all that repeated driver searching, installing, cleaning too. :wall:

Anyways thanks for the help. At least I learned some more PC crap. :book:

Glad you got it working, BAD. :medievalcheers:

[BAD]

Ah, thanks. Wondered what happened.

First campaign I did was English in XL. Started off by solidifying my position in Normandy and bribing the longbowman stack in Wales. Next turn taking Wales with my King and the bribed Longbowmen. Then just spent time getting more farming going and pumping out more units from the capital. When I got a substantial enough army I took out Scotland. Then proceeded to surround the British Isles with a small Navy, just so I can have a buffer for any coastal assaults. The army that attacked Scotland moves onto Ireland with King of Scotland leading the assault. Gallowglasses are tough. . . However next turn Ireland fell.

By this time I had a new King with three sons, the heir however sucked, Piety 2, Dread 2, Command 1, Acumen 2. So I needed a plan to do away with him. A few turns later one arose. The province north of Flanders turned rebel. Off I sent my heir to conquer it and quell the rebellion. He could keep the province as his own of course. he took down the rebellion and sat on his new found throne of power. Little did he know I was taxing the crap out of the province and sure as sure can be the province had a series of rebellions to which he eventually succumbed.

Two turns later my King died while my next heir was three turns away from maturing. . . Gah! My King was only forty-six too. That'll teach me. :laugh4:

[ArtistofWarfare]

I'm lurking around again tonight :egypt:

I started a campaign with the Italians last night but deleted it by accident (short story, but still- irrelevant).

Things were going good too...I had just gotten the papal states to offer me a daughter in marriage.

Either way, deciding what kind of campaign to set up and give a long term run.

I've decided to go on "normal" difficulty/"huge" units due to the fact that I haven't been in a total war campaign in some time and I want to guage where my ability is at in this point in time...normal is a good start.

Not sure what faction I'm going to use...I do love the Italians...but I don't want to start over with them again (although might...shrug)

Perhaps a non catholic run with the Eggies, Almos or Turks...we shall see.

Either way, I'm around...

[ArtistofWarfare]

Yeah...I'm going to have to go with the Italians ...and that's it heh.

I just love the units, the starting position and the naval potential etc.

I'm into it...

Starting it back up...

-Vanilla MTW:VI 2.01
-
-Early Period

-Normal Difficulty

-Huge Units

-Italians

[ArtistofWarfare]

Ah, thanks. Wondered what happened.

First campaign I did was English in XL. Started off by solidifying my position in Normandy and bribing the longbowman stack in Wales. Next turn taking Wales with my King and the bribed Longbowmen. Then just spent time getting more farming going and pumping out more units from the capital. When I got a substantial enough army I took out Scotland. Then proceeded to surround the British Isles with a small Navy, just so I can have a buffer for any coastal assaults. The army that attacked Scotland moves onto Ireland with King of Scotland leading the assault. Gallowglasses are tough. . . However next turn Ireland fell.

By this time I had a new King with three sons, the heir however sucked, Piety 2, Dread 2, Command 1, Acumen 2. So I needed a plan to do away with him. A few turns later one arose. The province north of Flanders turned rebel. Off I sent my heir to conquer it and quell the rebellion. He could keep the province as his own of course. he took down the rebellion and sat on his new found throne of power. Little did he know I was taxing the crap out of the province and sure as sure can be the province had a series of rebellions to which he eventually succumbed.

Two turns later my King died while my next heir was three turns away from maturing. . . Gah! My King was only forty-six too. That'll teach me. :laugh4:

Thank god the kings don't all die at 56 like they did at one point, many moons ago :smash:

That was just ridiculous...

I like the prospect of having an epic ruler who just by chance also lives into his 70's.

[Ironsword]

Just moved up to hard. VI v.2.01 vanilla.

First campaign was with the English, just scraped a GA victory.

Tried Turks, got obliterated by the GH.

I may try the Italians before resurrecting my great Sultan ambitions...

[ArtistofWarfare]

Just moved up to hard. VI v.2.01 vanilla.

First campaign was with the English, just scraped a GA victory.

Tried Turks, got obliterated by the GH.

I may try the Italians before resurrecting my great Sultan ambitions...

You know, last night I wound up falling asleep a little earlier than expected and I didn't actually start that Italian campaign (it's all set up and ready to go though).

Just for the record- Egypt/Almos has been considered quite a bit by me. Perhaps after this Italian campaign I too will resurrect my great Sultan ambitions :egypt:

That is, of course, after I manage to rebuild the true Roman Empire with the Italians...

[Martok]

Tried Turks, got obliterated by the GH.

I may try the Italians before resurrecting my great Sultan ambitions...

Tip: Many Turk players go after the Egyptians right away, especially the sultan in Antioch. Capture him in battle, ransom him for a hefty sum, then repeat. Soon the Eggies will be too broke to build or train anything, and won't be able to put up much resistance as you conquer their lands. You'll then have the economic base necessary to take on the Byzantines. ~;)



Just for the record- Egypt/Almos has been considered quite a bit by me. Perhaps after this Italian campaign I too will resurrect my great Sultan ambitions :egypt:
Eggies! Eggies! Eggies! They rule! :yes:

[ArtistofWarfare]

Tip: Many Turk players go after the Egyptians right away, especially the sultan in Antioch. Capture him in battle, ransom him for a hefty sum, then repeat. Soon the Eggies will be too broke to build or train anything, and won't be able to put up much resistance as you conquer their lands. You'll then have the economic base necessary to take on the Byzantines. ~;)



Eggies! Eggies! Eggies! They rule! :yes:

How are their start up economics? I'm assuming they have extremely valuable, fertile land to begin with but I'm not sure how their money making capabilities fair against say the Italians or the Spanish.

Especially in Medieval Total War, I'm very much along the lines of a "turtle" economics player. I like to dig in, and build the best economy in the game...while building everything needed for the first major offensive somewhere down the line.

[seireikhaan]

Well, personally, I'd take out the Turks ASAP, which, for me, means taking Syria the 1st turn, then regrouping a bit, and then taking Armenia and Rum. After that, you can turtle to your hearts content and get insanely wealthy, just so long as you fend of the occasional crusade and any potential "annoyances" from the Byzantines. I would also advise, after about 40 or 50 turns, to gang up on the Almos with the Spanish, and take a bit of the North African coast to relieve any immediate pressures on Egypt. I'd say Egypt actually has much better economic potential than Venice, with Egypt, Antioch, and Tripoli all pretty good to very good on trade income and farm income, and Palestine very good on farm income as well.

[Martok]

How are their start up economics? I'm assuming they have extremely valuable, fertile land to begin with but I'm not sure how their money making capabilities fair against say the Italians or the Spanish.

Especially in Medieval Total War, I'm very much along the lines of a "turtle" economics player. I like to dig in, and build the best economy in the game...while building everything needed for the first major offensive somewhere down the line.
If you're asking about the Egyptians, then I can tell you that they start with three of the wealthiest provinces in the entire game -- Antioch, Tripoli, and Egypt itself. (Palestine gets decent income as well, although it lacks trade goods).

Even if all you did was build the farm upgrades in these provinces, you would already be making a good amount of florins every year. The real potential of Egyptian wealth is in trade, however. Once you have your boats running around the Med calling at every port, your treasury will skyrocket. I've managed to pull down over 10,000 florins a year from Antioch alone, and both Egypt & Tripoli possess similar earning potential. :egypt:

[ArtistofWarfare]

If you're asking about the Egyptians, then I can tell you that they start with three of the wealthiest provinces in the entire game -- Antioch, Tripoli, and Egypt itself. (Palestine gets decent income as well, although it lacks trade goods).

Even if all you did was build the farm upgrades in these provinces, you would already be making a good amount of florins every year. The real potential of Egyptian wealth is in trade, however. Once you have your boats running around the Med calling at every port, your treasury will skyrocket. I've managed to pull down over 10,000 florins a year from Antioch alone, and both Egypt & Tripoli possess similar earning potential. :egypt:

That's amazing...(regarding 10k florins per year in Antioch)

I'll definitely be commanding Egyptian forces next :egypt:

That really is my style: Naval/Mercantile empires first, and then build the ridiculous army off of it's income/power. The key balance I try to strike is while still in Naval/Merc/Government mode, still building the capabilities to pump top quality ground forces out whenever necessary. I just don't hold the standing army up and instead try to squeeze and maximize every penny, while still building in every province, every turn.

Right now I'm at 1106 in my Italian campaign and I'm already dominating the central and eastern Med...working on the western med now.

Which brings me to a question, but I'll save it for it's own thread since I haven't seen anything about it...

Added W/ Edit: Oh- btw...pertaining to the Egyptian province discussion: How difficult can I expect it to be to subdue the population and get it to be a loyal tax paying group when I'm taking these same provinces (tripoli, antioch, etc) as the Italians? ...I believe that militarily I could take some of these lands quite soon...

[Kaidonni]

Well, the Eggies are Muslims, the Italians Catholics - the religion of the provinces you conquer will be different to yours, causing public loyalty issues. Then, you also want to be careful not to give any titles of those provinces to high Piety generals, as it will make things worse. When the religion of a province is different to yours, and is also at a very high percentage, you want governors with high Dread and low (or no) Piety. Also make sure you garrison the provinces sufficiently to prevent any revolts and to defend against re-offenses.

[Martok]

Added W/ Edit: Oh- btw...pertaining to the Egyptian province discussion: How difficult can I expect it to be to subdue the population and get it to be a loyal tax paying group when I'm taking these same provinces (tripoli, antioch, etc) as the Italians? ...I believe that militarily I could take some of these lands quite soon...

As Kaidonni said, make sure to appoint governors with high dread and/or low piety; that alone will make things eaiser for you. :yes: IIRC, I didn't need huge garrisons in my Holy Land provinces, although I did still station about 400-500 men in each, at least at first.

Your bigger worry, however, probably isn't rebellions -- it's dealing with the inevitable Egyptian reprisals. If you Crusade to the Holy Land, be prepared to fend off mulitple counterattacks by huge armies, as the Sultan will almost surely attempt to retake what he lost from you. Fortunately, the Eggies don't usually attack with troops of the highest quality, which will help somewhat. You still shouldn't get cocky, though, as they can bury you just under the sheer mass of men they can bring to bear against your brave Crusaders. Be prepared to reinforce them often! :sweatdrop:

[ArtistofWarfare]

Thanks guys...

Dread > Piety when it comes to this...I got it.

As said, it's 1106...A crusade or simply an invasion into the Holy Lands is not too far off.

[Ironsword]

Folks, as I trust you all to be completely impartial in all things Totalwar...

...is it worth checking out MTW2?? TBH i'm still loving MTW VI, and haven't dipped a toe into XL yet, and, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding its successor. I'd rather live in ignorant bliss than suffer an anticlimax.

Still got an Eggy campaign to be getting on with, so, down with the Catholic oppressors!

[caravel]

It may be worth having a look at considering the Gold Edition is out and it's coming down in price. I can't say whether you'll be disappointed or not as I've never played it. RTW was generally a disappointment and M2TW is based on it.

You see a lot of conflicting opinions, some where M2TW is a vast improvement over RTW or the others where it has nearly all of the same problems. At the end of the day it's down to personal preference.

If you're really into MTW and like everything about it, including the risk style map and the 2D unit sprites, then the chances are that the newer games may be a disappointment.

[Kaidonni]

I agree that it's personal preference. The reason I lost interest in M2TW was all the tedious reading required of it...it just got too in-depth. MTW:VI has just the right level of detail, not too tedious, not too lax (well...unless I take it upon myself to inspect every last detail of a province...that never goes down well with me). I just never got around to playing much.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I stopped comparing RTW with MTW and conceded that it's a different thing. It has its own upsides and downsides, and provides a good modding basis for gems such as EB.

MiNO is a sequel to RTW, being based on the same engine and interface etc. An analogy can be built with the case of Windows XP and Vista: Many Vista users are upgrading back to XP. Likewise, several MiNO players have upgraded back to MTW or RTW and been content.
.

[Martok]

Folks, as I trust you all to be completely impartial in all things Totalwar...

...is it worth checking out MTW2?? TBH i'm still loving MTW VI, and haven't dipped a toe into XL yet, and, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding its successor. I'd rather live in ignorant bliss than suffer an anticlimax.
Note: I have not played Medieval 2 very thoroughly -- I've probably not spent more than 15-20 hours on the game in total, plus I've not played it in the last 6 months -- so take my words with as many grains of salt as you're comfortable with. That said, my impressions are as follows:



Medieval 2 is....okay. It's not a bad game, but it's not a great game either. While it is a noticable improvement over Rome, that's not really saying much IMO.

Pros: Obviously, when zoomed in, combat is somewhat better than MTW from a visual/graphical standpoint. The controls and UI are a little more user-friendly, particularly the battle interface. The combat AI is a little better this time around. Although Inquisitors in Medieval 2 have an annoying tendency of burning your best generals for heresey, I overall like how religion is handled in the game -- Papal elections (and the political maneuvering that goes on behind them) can be pretty fun. :2thumbsup: The castle/city system is an interesting innovation as well, as it adds another layer of strategy (do you focus your province(s) on either primarily making money or producing troops?).

Cons: Remember what I said about Medieval 2 being better graphically? Well that doesn't apply to battles from the "general's view" (zoomed out); in fact, MTW still looks better in this regard. Nor does it apply to the campaign map, which -- despite the fact it's now set in a 3D environment -- still looks just as cartoonish as it did in Rome. Diplomacy is still broken, despite the more sophisticated model in M2TW; factions will still attack you for little or no reason, and refuse to sign peace treaties even when it's clearly in their best interests to do so. :no: The AI, while not quite as bad in RTW, is still not exactly a strategic *or* tactical mastermind. In battle, it still isn't particularly clever or imaginative. On the campaign map, the computer still leaves cities under-defended....despite the fact that it probably has a couple good-sized army stacks nearby (that are often just standing around doing nothing). :wall:

As another demerit, I positively hate the fact that when you install & play Medieval 2, you're limited to only 5 initial factions (English, French, Germans, Italians/Venitians, & Spanish). In order to unlock the other playable factions, you must first beat the game with one of those 5 factions. Yes, I know that everyone says this is easy to mod so all factions are playable right away; but that's hardly the point. The point is, you shouldn't *have* to mod the game just so you can play as all the factions from the start. It's maybe a minor complaint overall, but one that I strongly disapprove of. :thumbsdown:


In the end, despite the numerous improvements and added bells & whistles, M2TW basically feels like Rome with a medieval skin. If the Total War games were women, I would describe them as the following:

MTW: She's the cute librarian who always flirts with you when go in to return/check out a book. She's smart and funny, and likes talking about all sorts of different subjects, be it the nature of the universe or the local sports team.

RTW: She's the incredibly hot blonde that you've wanted from when you first met her. When you finally hook up with her, though, you find out she's not only shallow and dumb as toast, but that she's not even very good in bed. :no:

M2TW: She's the dumb blonde's brunette friend, who -- while only marginally more intelligent -- is still at least smart enough to not want to be viewed the same way as her. So she gets a make-over, and then does her best to look and act like that cute librarian you always run into. In the end, however, she can't cover up the fact that she doesn't have much more intelligence & personality than the blonde.



I've said it over and over and over again: MTW (and Shogun, for that matter) actually immerse me in the world. Medieval 2 (and Rome) just feel like I'm "playing a game".

[ArtistofWarfare]

Note: I have not played Medieval 2 very thoroughly -- I've probably not spent more than 15-20 hours on the game in total, plus I've not played it in the last 6 months -- so take my words with as many grains of salt as you're comfortable with. That said, my impressions are as follows:



Medieval 2 is....okay. It's not a bad game, but it's not a great game either. While it is a noticable improvement over Rome, that's not really saying much IMO.

Pros: Obviously, when zoomed in, combat is somewhat better than MTW from a visual/graphical standpoint. The controls and UI are a little more user-friendly, particularly the battle interface. The combat AI is a little better this time around. Although Inquisitors in Medieval 2 have an annoying tendency of burning your best generals for heresey, I overall like how religion is handled in the game -- Papal elections (and the political maneuvering that goes on behind them) can be pretty fun. :2thumbsup: The castle/city system is an interesting innovation as well, as it adds another layer of strategy (do you focus your province(s) on either primarily making money or producing troops?).

Cons: Remember what I said about Medieval 2 being better graphically? Well that doesn't apply to battles from the "general's view" (zoomed out); in fact, MTW still looks better in this regard. Nor does it apply to the campaign map, which -- despite the fact it's now set in a 3D environment -- still looks just as cartoonish as it did in Rome. Diplomacy is still broken, despite the more sophisticated model in M2TW; factions will still attack you for little or no reason, and refuse to sign peace treaties even when it's clearly in their best interests to do so. :no: The AI, while not quite as bad in RTW, is still not exactly a strategic *or* tactical mastermind. In battle, it still isn't particularly clever or imaginative. On the campaign map, the computer still leaves cities under-defended....despite the fact that it probably has a couple good-sized army stacks nearby (that are often just standing around doing nothing). :wall:

As another demerit, I positively hate the fact that when you install & play Medieval 2, you're limited to only 5 initial factions (English, French, Germans, Italians/Venitians, & Spanish). In order to unlock the other playable factions, you must first beat the game with one of those 5 factions. Yes, I know that everyone says this is easy to mod so all factions are playable right away; but that's hardly the point. The point is, you shouldn't *have* to mod the game just so you can play as all the factions from the start. It's maybe a minor complaint overall, but one that I strongly disapprove of. :thumbsdown:


In the end, despite the numerous improvements and added bells & whistles, M2TW basically feels like Rome with a medieval skin. If the Total War games were women, I would describe them as the following:

MTW: She's the cute librarian who always flirts with you when go in to return/check out a book. She's smart and funny, and likes talking about all sorts of different subjects, be it the nature of the universe or the local sports team.

RTW: She's the incredibly hot blonde that you've wanted from when you first met her. When you finally hook up with her, though, you find out she's not only shallow and dumb as toast, but that she's not even very good in bed. :no:

M2TW: She's the dumb blonde's brunette friend, who -- while only marginally more intelligent -- is still at least smart enough to not want to be viewed the same way as her. So she gets a make-over, and then does her best to look and act like that cute librarian you always run into. In the end, however, she can't cover up the fact that she doesn't have much more intelligence & personality than the blonde.



I've said it over and over and over again: MTW (and Shogun, for that matter) actually immerse me in the world. Medieval 2 (and Rome) just feel like I'm "playing a game".

/signed

[Kaidonni]

One thing that never happened in Rome or M2TW - my butt being handed to me on a nice, golden, shiny platter, as part of a twelve-course meal, complete with all those posh forks, knives, spoons, glasses and so on, along a banquet table in a king's high palace. That happened today, with me playing as Bohemia...Expert it is, then. MTW's battles are just so decisive - winning or losing can determine the fate of a campaign, or the direction you will have to take if you survive. Makes it all the more interesting. So, I will *sign* Martok's great post, just as ArtistofWarfare has done.

*takes quill, dips it in ink, and signs Martok's post* :2thumbsup:

Now I'm off to try Aragon on Expert on XL. Might be a better choice than Bohemia...I hope. :sweatdrop:

[Tony Furze]

I really enjoy the "less"of everything of MTW and Shogun. I ve now gone back to MTW 1.1 and restarted my Egyptian campaign afresh-and it s a very fresh experience.

As Kaidonni mentions, its a much more decisive experience-you really have to put things on the line, and decide for instance if you re going to sacrifice units for the greater goal, or pull out. Great for chronic indeciders (?) like me.

The RTW campaign map is my big beef- its too crowded,and just when I want absolute silence to decide my campaign move along comes "Settlement under siege,sir!" and "Aye! Aye! Sir". (Or words to that effect) Its irritating.

Can you mod it so that those guys on the campaign map have a wrestling match?

[ArtistofWarfare]

One thing that never happened in Rome or M2TW - my butt being handed to me on a nice, golden, shiny platter, as part of a twelve-course meal, complete with all those posh forks, knives, spoons, glasses and so on, along a banquet table in a king's high palace. That happened today, with me playing as Bohemia...Expert it is, then. MTW's battles are just so decisive - winning or losing can determine the fate of a campaign, or the direction you will have to take if you survive. Makes it all the more interesting. So, I will *sign* Martok's great post, just as ArtistofWarfare has done.

*takes quill, dips it in ink, and signs Martok's post* :2thumbsup:

Now I'm off to try Aragon on Expert on XL. Might be a better choice than Bohemia...I hope. :sweatdrop:

Indeed...

My intellect is tested with MTW moreso than RTW or M2TW.

It's far more strategic and decisive for sure. The influence effects on your different generals alone makes it 2x the strategic event that the other games are.

You wind up dealing with realistic expansion issues...

Edit:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=85054

My first glance in the M2TW forums in...god knows how long. Anyway, it only took about 6 seconds to find this thread. This is what I'm talking about.

[Biggus Diccus]

The original MTW still lives for me too. Reinstalled it a couple of days ago and connected my old 17" lcd again (mtw doesn't look too good on a 24" widescreen :laugh4: ). Luckily for me the game works flawlessly on my new ATI gfx card. Installed it and copied the install to new directories to install a few mods.

I have played RTW (+BI+Alexander) a lot and find it pretty fun. The battles are a lot more arcade-like but still fun. There are a lot of excellent mods for RTW that give a totally different experience than vanilla, my favourites are Chivalry and EB. The Civ-like strategic interface makes for more micro management and more 'pointless' battles, and it makes it more difficult for the AI to perform than in a risk-like map though.

MTW2 introduces some amazing graphics for the battles, but the UI looks really unfinished and rushed. It makes it no better that the UI does not scale with widescreen resolution, but is stretched. In addition the unit cards and leader cards look really bad. A BIG step back from the original MTW for sure. The crazy number of v&v's for family members and no option to choose your heir puts a 'dynasty builder' like myself off too. But last but not least; the battles in MTW2 may look good, but they have become really tedious for me. Infantry not performing because of 'anti-blob'-mechanics, cavalry requiring lots of micromanagement to charge, archers/crossbowmen firing at 90 degree angles etc.

[Norkus]

This thread deserves to be on the front page!

Besides, here is a fun-fact for you faithful MTW-players: The Prime Minister of Norway, a Social Democrat called Jens Stoltenberg, plays strategy games on his PC in his spare time. One of his favourites is MTW and he claims that it is a lot like his day job! ;-)

[splintersh0t]

Yea me to !! all the same just love this forum i never know it was here on google but i.v stumbled apon heaven ... great can,t wait for the weekend

Medieval 2 Scots vs. English - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ikunhj-k4

[naut]

MTW: She's the cute librarian who always flirts with you when go in to return/check out a book. She's smart and funny, and likes talking about all sorts of different subjects, be it the nature of the universe or the local sports team.

RTW: She's the incredibly hot blonde that you've wanted from when you first met her. When you finally hook up with her, though, you find out she's not only shallow and dumb as toast, but that she's not even very good in bed.

M2TW: She's the dumb blonde's brunette friend, who -- while only marginally more intelligent -- is still at least smart enough to not want to be viewed the same way as her. So she gets a make-over, and then does her best to look and act like that cute librarian you always run into. In the end, however, she can't cover up the fact that she doesn't have much more intelligence & personality than the blonde.
Best, Analogy. EVER!

[Kamakazi]

Yes welcome to the forum... i have been addicted to mtw vi for ages...i play vanlla and tis rly addicting

[oz_wwjd]

MY main issue is the CTD with newer graphics cards.I play many games,but MTW a lot,and I really need a newer graphics card,but if I do, I lose MTW as a playable game,so I'm holding off as long as possible..

[Ironsword]

I still have a big love affair with this game, I don't know why, but it feels like you really are 'living it' so to speak. The feel of a game is so much more important than the look of it IMHO. (not that MTW is all that shabby anyway!)

Maybe i'm getting old and rambling, but i've never had more of a challenge when the masses of the horde arrive on my doorstep, or the pope excommunicates me and my erstwhile allies start crusading against me. On top of that you battle on with an heir that would make your guardsmen blush; drinker, unhinged loon, secret perversion, hoping that that if you weather the storm brighter times are ahead. (Usually a civil war ;)

For a game to still be so discussed five years on, I believe, is testament to that. Now, where to invade next...

[Martok]

Now, where to invade next...
Sicily, of course. Did you even have to ask? ~D

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
The correct question is:

How do I invade Ireland?
~;p
.