Combat Bonus in Snow or Woods

[CountMRVHS]

I think this was the case with M2, but I'm noticing it again in Kingdoms...

Why does every unit under the sun have this attribute? Almost every cav unit has "combat bonus in snow" (which I don't fully understand), and almost every infantry unit has a bonus in snow and/or woods. Even spear militia.

Shouldn't this bonus be more limited? The fact that practically every unit has it makes it less flavorful and less useful. Why try to fight the English in the woods with your highlanders?

[Rhedd]

It's not to differentiate between Highlanders and Englishmen. It's to differentiate between Highlanders and Turks!

Pretty much all northern troops have bonuses in the snow, while southern soldiers get bonuses in the desert.

Infantry get bonuses in the forest, if they come from forested areas, which gives them an extra advantage over cavalry, which suck in the woods, and those southern desert dwellers.

When taken in a limited context like the Britannia campaign, it might not seem immediately obvious, but it makes perfect sense.

[homefry]

How much of a bonus do you get?

[Rhedd]

Well, I'm not going to look through every single troop type for a complete list, or exceptions, but as an example, the northern European infantry I looked at, like town milita and Highlanders, had the following bonuses:

Scrub: 1
Sand: -2
Forest: 3
Snow: 4

Feudal Knights looked like this:
Scrub: 0
Sand: 0
Forest: 0
Snow: 2

Camel gunners had this, instead:
Scrub: 0
Sand: 2
Forest: 0
Snow: 0

And Sudanese infantry had these:
Scrub: 1
Sand: 2
Forest: 0
Snow: -4

Don't ask me exactly what those numbers mean, but there you go.

[Guru]

Don't ask me exactly what those numbers mean, but there you go.

What do those numbers exactly mean? Perhaps they they are added to attack values? Do they stack, for instance do highlanders fighting in a snowy forest get a bonus of 7? Blop.

- Guru

[CountMRVHS]

Well, that makes a bit of sense then, as I almost never play "desert" factions, so I wouldn't have noticed their attributes, or lack thereof. The word "bonus" applied to militia units just seemed a bit too much for me...

[Gorm]

I have noticed in the Crusades campaign that my Kingdom of Jerusalem troops get tired much faster. I believe this is due to wearing armour and wool clothing in the desert heat.

[ReiseReise]

If you want to rationalize it, Yes, that is why they get tired, but in terms of game mechanics the troops that have heavy armor (3 or more to start with iirc) have a sand penalty.

Observation: Playing Antioch campaign i was sieging a rebel settlement, my troops, mostly Edessa Sergeants (or whatever the orange mace-wielding guys are called) and Hospitaller Spearmen, became exhausted after fighting at the walls and gates. I let them rest to gain some stamina before taking the city square, but even after they were standing still for about 20 minutes they had not gained anything, they were still exhausted. Since the timer was running out I was forced to charge in and take the city with less than 2 minutes remaining. This could perhaps be a change for Kingdom: the 'Frankish' soldiers seem to not regain their stamina as fast as they used to in the desert.

One of many minor changes that make a big difference. I'm not saying its bad. Now I always keep 2-3 units back from the fighting so that they stay fresh and can easily finish off the remnants of the enemy.

[Slaists]

i wonder, is shield value also added to the armor when the engine calculates heat penalty?

[Czar Alexsandr]

To generalize... Northern troops get bonuses in snow and woods because they come from a region that has woods and snow. Italian, Spanish, and Byzantines usually get a bonus in woods cause they come from wooded regions. The Islamic factions get bonuses in deserts cause they live in desert. (Less so with the Turks. More so with the Moors.)

Things I found interesting to note though are... the Byzantine Varangian Guard which get's a bonus in snow too, not suprising since thesse men are imported from Russia mostly. Spainish Almughavar's get a bonus in snow, which I think is reasonable since Almugavar's are Catalan mountain men. (mostly.) And the Sword and Buckler man only get's a bonus in woods! Not suprising considering they only come from warmer factions though. I find it very interesting to note which units get bonuses in certain climates and tend to theme armies for that climate. Sicily for example get's a lot of units that don't get bonuses in snow. But their castle infantry almost all get the bonus to snow. So.. if you wanted to theme a army for the invasion of the north.. you could fill it with unit's that would get that bonus. And.. since the Mediteranian factions undoubtedly suffer a less significant penalty in desert... you can move south at the same time! Of course you can take over the world and win battles easily with units from the wrong climate.. but I try to theme my armies for my campaigns.

Oh on another note... what does the bonus do? They fight better and defend better in their native climate. :laugh4: A Berber Spearman might get a bit chilly in the north country fighting a Huscarl. You know... Scot's shouldn't get a bonus in snow.. not the ones wearing skirts anyways! :laugh4:

[imnothere]

wrong! Scots are hairier (in many place ^_^) and tougher. So not only do they have higher endurance to cold (like furry bears) but they are just as mad and bad as one. that is why they are so lovable - Scots are cool.

[Sentinel]

If these bonuses are added to the attack then for
Highland Rabble the normal attack = 2
Add bonus for sand -2
Gives total attack = 0
The same applies for Pilgrims.

Perhaps the heat turns them into pacifists.

Bedouin Cavalry has a primary and seconary attack of 9
But if fighting in a snowy (-2) forest (-6) = -8
would have an attack of = 1

[Czar Alexsandr]

wrong! Scots are hairier (in many place ^_^) and tougher. So not only do they have higher endurance to cold (like furry bears) but they are just as mad and bad as one. that is why they are so lovable - Scots are cool.

Indeed! :laugh4: I have nothing against the Scots! They're all from a wintery climate. (They should get a bonus against thosse English sissy boys. Bwahahaha.) I have nothing against the English either. ^_^; I'm of UK-ish decent so.. everyone in the UK has my respect. :laugh4:

[Guru]

They're all from a wintery climate.
Sorry this off-topic, but "wintery climate" is a very relative expression... I've thought of having a sun holiday trip in Scotchland next January. I can imagine myself sunbathing on the beaches of Loch Ness while my friends are freezing at home!

- Guru