Medieval Campaign

[Swoosh So]

Just how detailed is the new campaign? Im talking in terms of alliances, are they any good now and can you work together with say a neighbour to acheive a goal?


Swooooooooooooooooooooooosh

[Sjakihata]

try it when you get it-- only 10 % of world pop have the means to answer, and they are buisy playing... !

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*bows* - Power to the Sultan!

Clan Seljuk

[Swoosh So]

yea thanks for that i might try it when i get it!! hehe

[Puzz3D]

Swoosh,

I'm playing the English on normal difficulty and took the unusual course of allying with the French from the beginning and that alliance is still holding after about 70 years (turns). The French and Germans were at war very early so I decared war on Germany as well. I did succeed in eliminating the Germans in about 50 years, but could not directly ally with the French in battle or go into the French territories to help them defend their territories. I did take a few territories from the Germans that were originally owned by the French, and the French have not tried to get them back. The French and Germans beat themselves up a bit by fighting. I've been careful not to make war against Italy because they are allied with France and limited my alliances to Spain and France so as not to get into a situation where my French alliance might have to be broken. The French are quite strong now and have borders with the Danes and the Italians. The French are currently not at war. I have a couple of very weak provinces next to strong French armies, but they haven't attacked me.

I was excommunicated for making war on Germany. I declared war on Spain and have been warned by the Catholic Church that I will be excommunicated if I don't stop attacking the Spanish. I never knew you could be excommunicated twice.

I think it would be nice if armies could go into allied territories without breaking the alliance.

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 08-27-2002).]

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Yeah Puzz we always wanted that even for STW and MI, but it just never seems to have been implimented except when you call for a crusade and so on.

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Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!

No Fear Legend.

[Swoosh So]

Thanks puzz, I read in a reveiw that playing as england the reveiwer was asked by the french if they could march through england to attack scotland, I guess he was talking b/s! It was either pczone (preveiw) or pc gamer i cant remember what one.


Swoooooooooooooooooooooooosh

[This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 08-27-2002).]

[Ii Naomasa]

It is a shame that you can't coordinate attacks and it seems the AI does less of the 'knowing what the player does' that was rampant in Shogun (where the computer would move troops into whatever province you attacked...in MTW, it makes up for it by often shifting troops around to be on the safe side). I've occassionally been able to guess when a computer ally may strike and have put forces into an area that they may attempt to retake (I helped the Hungarians liberate a beseiged castle this way...of course, I put enough troops in to win the battles myself...it would've been interesting to see what would've happened if I had saved it myself (would I have started seiging my ally, like often happened in Shogun?)).

When two allies try to take the same province, the one with the larger army gets to keep the territory.


Alliances do tend to stick fairly well as long as the AI finds itself with no other means of expansion. I've had 50 to 100+ alliances with border states and in one or two cases, it felt so safe that neither the AI nor myself felt the need for a border force. In fact, originally the Almohads AI didn't even panic when I'd have a large force of Egyptians in a province bordering theres.

My favorite part of the alliance scheme is that the AI actually makes intelligent choices when forced to break an alliance. In Shogun, the AI seemed to stick with its older alliance. In Medieval, it seems to pick what's best for its situations (often the more powerful). When my Egyptian faction went back to war with the remnants of the Byzantine Empire, I was suddenly given a half dozen messages from countries allied to both of us that they had broken their alliance with the Byzantines to remain faithful to me (and some of these places I just recently allied with). I thought it was funny that all these countries were groveling before me in hopes I wouldn't attack them when I was done with the only remaining force in the east. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[DaCount]

Alliances are very nice. Sometimes my allies even joined the battle against a common enemy, you ofcourse can't command their units, but in a 2 vs 1 battle everything is fun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif, you can even decide to attack them in the back during the battle (but ofcourse i didn't try it). Anyway in my Game (HRE) i could fairly long keep alliances with the other catholic factions. I Don't know about islam/orthodox, but as soon as i start attacking catholics as well, then i can expect pope trouble and thus trouble with the other catholic factions. Also if i build up army on a border to an ally, then you can have fun, as pretty sure he will NOT like it. I even had my emmisionary return to my after an ally request, that the french strongly suggested to move my troops away from the border if i would like him as ally. Ofcourse i did and prompt he attacked me, the Bastard LOL http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif. He also at time suggested to attack a common ally, but it seems after you take a certain percentage of the map nobody wan't to ally to you anymore (or perhaps it has to do with the number of turns in the game ?).

[Grifman]

Puzz, the French will eventually turn on you. Seems when a faction gets locked in with no expansion room, they start looking. I'd reinforce those French provinces of yours soon - they have bullseye all over them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Grifman

[Swoosh So]

Can you chose to kill enemy emmisarys?

[DaCount]

Yep you can kill all special units with an assasin, and emmisionaries mostly die like flies (nice to lvl up you assasin)

[Kraxis]

No DaCount he meant if we can execute him if he comes back to make an alliance right after his factions has grabbed three of your provinces. Like the AI did to your guys in STW.

Puzz... if the Pope who excommunicated you the first time died, then you are not excommunicated anymore and as such you can be excommunicated again...
Also Barbarossa himself got excommunicated three times I think.

[Swoosh So]

yes SHE did mean that, so does anyone know?

[Vanya]

GAH!

Vanya has found that the Russians and Hungarians have steadfastly stood at His side through thick and thin so far in His campaign as the Spaniards. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif It will be a shame to have to cleave their legs off soon.

The French were steadfast allies as well... once I realized the English were about to get killed off. So, I cemented that alliance with the Frogs and helped myself to half of England! Then, the Frogs attack the Germans. And, like a good ally, I go in and help myself to some German lands too! The French are loving it. That is, until my sneak attack soon after with 2 massively awesome armies of all state-of-the-art troops landing in Britany and Anjou and facing off against the flower of French warriors: their mighty spearmen and hobilars. Need I say they were no match for my feudal sargeants?

Now, the French are holed up in Mercia. And I discovered it was a friggin' river province! GAH! I shall dip them in batter and deep fry them purdy fast despite their fancy position... I'll bring in some trebs to bitch-slap them around a little before launching the final assault...

GAH!

[Puzz3D]

Kraxis,

Yes the pope did die, and you're right all my crosses are unbroken. Thx.

Swoosh,

There is no option to kill on alliance offers. It's a yes or no option.

During my battle with Germany I was asked if a German crusade could pass through my territory, and I let it go through. Germany was on the ropes with me and yet it sent a crusade off to the holy land which seemed a bit strange. I don't know if the ai ever asks to send non-crusading armies though your territories.

[Azmogeddon]

You are enjoying yourself, aren't you! How long are Jinettes effective for?

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Azmo
[long-time lurker]

[Lurkster]

As for alliances between Catholic and Islamic nations, they seem to hold just as well. While I was playing with the Spanish, I aliied fairly early with the Egyptians (after murdering those ElmoHeads) and had a comfortable alliance with them until there were almost no other factions left on the map. The AI seems to value realpolitik over religious ideals http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Kraellin]

the ai stuff re alliances is a VAST improvement over stw/we/mi. the ai can be opportunistic or seemingly noble and honorable. it's really quite good.

i'm still only up to normal difficulty level and i look forward to seeing this stuff work at higher levels.

and swooshers,
if you've played europa universalis, it's not quite that detailed. it's a little more abstracted with fewer options, but still detailed enough to make it a major portion of the game now.

the one thing i do miss, in all this, is a way to play as a total peacenik. that's always the hardest way to win ;)

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Nelson]

I have already had AI allies appear in the field at my side more often than they ever did in all of the Shogun campaigns I played. It was a pleasure terminating the French between my fine Spaniards and my English allies in Brittany.

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COGITOERGOVINCO

[NagatsukaShumi]

Oh on the note of that Pc Gamer preview, the writer actually said that France said if the English wouldn't let them march to Scotland on their CRUSCADE then they'd attack them. So it was never said you could ask for military access.

[Prodigy]

Yep, with that fancy siege equipment river battles will never be the same, no more shoot my best troops and run. Although heavy fog river battles were fun, that AI never knew what hit him.

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I am the law and you can't beat the law.

[Kalisari]

Puzz, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think you were excommunicated twice because your king died http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I've noticed that if your king has been excommunicated, and he dies, then your heir is still a loyal servant of the church, until he gets excommunicated anyways http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[solypsist]

IMO, the campaign is everything players in STW wished they could have had; it is rich beyond belief. As a Single Player gamer, this is one of the most rewarding campaign-engines ever!

[TheRat]

If one of your allies is under siege you can send in your own forces to help them lift the seige. They will retain control of the territory and your army goes back to the province it started from. Then they send you thanks. The AI will also do this for you if you help them out.

[pdoan8]

Alliance is greatly improved over STW. AI won't break alliance without a cause. Among the Catholic fractions, the Pope can also step up and arrange the cease fire or alliance.

You can not behead the emissary (just like STW) but your assasin will be more than happy to do that for you. Be warn, emissary get killed rather easy and often. Once, I had to send out 7 (3 and then 4) of them just to pass through 2 neutral regions to reach an ally region and still lost 4.

Once a fraction is excommunicated, any fraction can acttack without the interference of the Pope. You can even call the Crusade if you have the right building.

The Crusade can attack any fraction that is being excommunicated, or any fraction that of different religion. The Jihad works the same but to reclaim the lost land.

If the Crusade pass through your land, you will have to let it pass. Otherwise, you will be attacked. Be warned, if the zeal level is high in your land, some of your troops and even generals (even royal blood) will join the Crusade and they won't return (they will belong to the country that called the Crusade). The side of the Crusade is huge. The biggest one I have seen consist of almost 3 full side army (44 units in one army).

[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 08-28-2002).]

[the Count of Flanders]

Quote Originally posted by DaCount:
Yep you can kill all special units with an assasin, and emmisionaries mostly die like flies (nice to lvl up you assasin)[/QUOTE]
You have the game already?
Belgisch of Nederlands brabant?

[The Black Ship]

Beware atemtping to kill a special units (Preist, envoy, etc...) as they'll fly seemingly to the nearest province that has a protective counter-agent/watchtower...result, your assasin bites it first! Man I sure miss the cut scenes too...it seems so mundane to read a message window regarding success/failure.

You can be excommunicated twice, it just doesn't do any more damage (other than V/V?). Once excommunicated hope for someone to knock off the Pope, and oila! Instant reconciliation with God and his minions!

Beware resurrected factions! Just because you've knocked out HRE doesn't mean they'll stay gone forever. In fact, towards the end-game revolts become horrendous http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif I've had revolts occur in 16 provinces in one year! It can really make you scramble.

One more word of advice...check your family tree often. Daughters often become available without a word of proclamation. If you've ever had a daughter turn into an old maid then you've serious lost out on a crucial opportunity.

[This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 08-28-2002).]

[Warmaker]

*sigh*
I just wish S:TW's alliance system was somewhere near M:TW's.

I'll agree with what everyone's saying pretty much. Alliances are actually useful and an ally is unlikely likely to poke you in your @$$ as you pick up a coin on the ground. You can also form a stronger alliance via marriage. Mind you, it also gives the other party claim to the other's lands should there be no successors. With this in mind, some good assasinations could get you land without fielding your fine army.

Militarily, the alliances are much more useful than in S:TW where military aid from an ally was practically nonexistent. Since you can't coordinate an attack with an ally you kind of have to get a feeling of whether your ally is in a position to help or not. Obviously, if his province has a large army then help is likely to come.

In my campaign as the Byzantines, the French, a Catholic faction had surprisingly been more cooperative than a fellow Orthodox faction, the Novgorod.

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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!