Is total domination (all territories) possible with the native factions? (Cuba?)

[613 The Evil]

Hi, I m in very hard mode with the Apachean tribes. I've got only a few rebel territories left and the pitiful Spanish who only own Cuba now. So far in my Total War games I was aiming for total domination, controlling of all territories on the map. But the native american factions can't use ships... (Canoes, anyone???) And even if Cuba becomes a rebel territory somehow, I can't get the message of total victory, because I can't swim there... So, total domination is a distant dream with any native faction? It's such a shame... :(

[predaturd]

tryed mercenaries?
maybe bribing boats in port
if all else fails just use the move things to wherever you want cheat

[613 The Evil]

Thanks but...

I haven't seen any mercenaries option while playing the Apachean tribes. Only if I join a warpath and only native units, you know. As of the cheat, I haven't checked it yet, I hope it's easy to use. I'll resort to that if I have to. I can't be ruling the whole map and not being able to access Cuba! I mean, come on... The native Americans could sail stuff too, not in the middle of the Atlantic ocean but they did.

[Guru]

Hello there and welcome to the .org.

I assume you still can contact them via diplomacy. First make peace if you are at war. Give them a few regions very far away from Cuba and hope they'll move their capital there. Then buy Cuba from those greedy palefaces and take those regions you gave by force. Your reputation is not going to like it but that doesn't really matter... Especially when there are no other factions left. Save the game before trying this as there is no guarantee it will work.

- Guru

[Zenicetus]

As of the cheat, I haven't checked it yet, I hope it's easy to use. I'll resort to that if I have to. I can't be ruling the whole map and not being able to access Cuba! I mean, come on... The native Americans could sail stuff too, not in the middle of the Atlantic ocean but they did.

Not so much. The Amerindians who colonized the Caribbean and Cuba all migrated there (very slowly) up the chain of islands from South America, not from North America. The Strait of Florida is only 90-something miles, but the current is pretty strong.

There was a well-organized, coastal warrior culture called the Caluse in Southwest Florida. They gave the Spanish a really hard time and were never actually conquered, just died out from disease after contact. Although technically a maritime culture based on fishing, hunting manatees and (maybe) whales, they never had anything more than basic dugout canoes and hung close to the coast. They never developed outriggers or sailing like the groups that colonized the South Pacific Islands. I'm not sure there's much evidence of trade between the Calusa in Florida and the Arawak peoples in Cuba or elsewhere in the Caribbean. It was probably just occasional contact from canoes being blown off-course in storms, instead of intentional navigation.

Anyway, that's the background. You could still do a "what if" scenario and imagine that the Calusa or some other coastal groups learned how to make outriggers and sails, and use the relocate cheat for the invasion. It's a shame the game doesn't allow Calusa mercenaries.... they were really tough, mean s.o.b.'s and would be good in a fight.

[613 The Evil]

Guru, farout man, farout. :) We're talking about very hard settings here. I have terrible reputation, I use assassins and spies, I execute prisoners, I am cruel, merciless, cunning... all that. How will they ever trust me? For peace, or even sell me Cuba. And how will I be able to keep it from rebelling next turn anyway. And you also assume I want to make peace... Hehe. I mean, come on. Give them a region? I am playing since Shogun, I never done that. Show some guts. :P Anyway, different style of playing I guess. Sooo, about the move thing, is there a nice post about it? I can't manage move my Chief there with his army. I tried different combinations, name without the word Chief, name without the trait after it, etc etc. None worked. And with Captain Something, the same. Any help? I only managed to move another family member there, should I have the unit I want to be moved selected before I type the command in the console?

[Guru]

I am cruel, merciless, cunning...
Hey, my plan was to betray them! Make peace, give some regions (to get them to move the capital and improve relations), make an alliance if you have to and you can, buy the island and betray and slaughter them on the mainland! If that isn't evil I'm not a shrubber! Shame it is unlikely to work if you've always been evil... Even the AI might suspect something fishy. They'll be safe on their island until your natives invent a "teleporting system".
:holiday2: The Spanish: "We've got all the tobacco we need on our little island" :sharky:

- Guru

[Ulstan]

The native Americans could sail stuff too, not in the middle of the Atlantic ocean but they did.

I don't think the American Indians along the Gulf ever had anything larger than your standard canoes, and obviously launching a military invasion of Cuba across the gulf of mexico via canoe is not going to work.

If they could sail to Cuba, why not Europe?

[Ramses II CP]

There is a little difference between sailing ~100 miles to the coast of Cuba and the 2,000+ miles from Florida to the coast of England. Refugees make it from Cuba to the US on rafts made of garbage every year, though going in that direction is somewhat easier.

:egypt:

[Zenicetus]

I did a little more research on this, from books I have in my library that I haven't looked at in years so I forgot the details (the little old gray cells ain't what they used to be). In "Prehistoric Peoples of South Florida" (McGoun) there's a reference to Spanish accounts of Calusa indians traveling in dugout canoes to Cuba for trade goods, after the Spanish were established there.

It looks like they never had any strong motive to go to Cuba in Pre-Columbian times, since they had a coastal empire in SW Florida based on very rich local seafood resources and trade with the interior. And there is no record of pottery or any other artifacts in S. Florida from the groups that settled the Caribbean islands. It was only worth making the trip once they could trade for European iron tools and other artifacts in Cuba. That's also where the last Calusa ended up as refugees under the "care" of the Spanish, after Florida was ceded to the British, and British-allied Amerindians moved south and displaced the original tribal groups.

So if you can imagine a confederation of North American indians strong enough to take on the Spanish, maybe with horses and guns after initial contact with other factions on the east coast, then it's not that big a stretch to imagine a canoe invasion of Cuba. Go ahead and teleport with the game cheat!

[613 The Evil]

Well, I teleported and captured Cuba too. 55 provinces total, if I am correct. But still, no "You got them all!" message. The game just continued as if nothing had happened... Oh well, I did what I could. :P

Off topic, but, I moved to the Teutonic campaign. Very hard both modes. Playing Lithuania. At the 8th turn, the Teutons became history... Hehehe. It was fun, fierce battles every turn. TOTAL WAR indeed. And after that happened, I decide to hit the Mongols, to secure one side of my empire. Well, next turn, the Polish attack me. They wasted no time. Oh, well, now I am rampaging both of them... Economy is not going so well, but that's what happens when you have the largest army on the map. :D My converting can't keep up with my conquering... It's a really nice game overall. Still, no mercenaries with the Lithuanians... A bug perhaps??? :(

[613 The Evil]

...And now the Novgorod have attacked me too. And the turn after that, the Danish followed their example... Damn I can't build a thing, all I do is fight and train units... I still haven't lost a battle though, I find it surprising. (Ok, lots of loading...) But really I wonder why every power around me turned against me, Even some minor clashes between the Mongols and Novgorod, ended up in an alliance between them. Well next turn, the Mongols will be dead... :D One city left. Really Total War there... It got tiring and tough but it's good I guess. :)

[ReiseReise]

The grizzled face of Admiral Lopez, battered by years of unrelenting sun and stinging salt spray, grows a shade whiter as he surveys the grim scene from the helm of his great galleon. "Damn these winds" he mutters as his mighty ship sits nearly motionless in the calm waters. A mile distant, scores of small canoes, heavily laden with heathen warriors, appear as miniscule slivers against the enormity of the ocean. They are growing closer. And closer. The minutes drag on. The sweat drips from the Admiral's face. The guns open fire.
It seems overkill, such massive shot against such flimsy targets. But alas, the small boats prove difficult to hit. They grow closer. Finally! the attackers are at such a range that the guns are becoming accurate. Many are reduced to splinters, but there are still so many! Then, tragedy! The guns cannot be depressed sufficiently to take aim. The marines take to the rails, firing their muskets. There are too many targets, too little time.
The ship is soon surrounded by howling natives, throwing ropes and ladders upon the ship, climbing aboard through every available avenue, over the side, through the gunports. Fearsome warriors they are indeed, with painted bodies, shrieking war cries and vicious weapons, what sailor has ever faced such an adversary? Many on both sides fall, the decks run slick with blood. There are so many! Hundreds, thousands it seems, and the pitifully few, though brave, Spaniards are soon overrun by such an onslaught.
The Captain makes his last stand, brandishing pistol and cutlass. As the horde pours upon his position, many are cut down in violent combat from the few remaining Spaniards. "How many..." the Captain yells, "How many savages are worth my life? None too many!" He faces his final foe, the last of many who have faced his sword, the first of many who will be victorious.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

@Reise

Nice story

@Evil

There is an other problem if you want to capture everything. In my Apachean campaign the Spanish moved their capital to the mainland. Apparently the AI moves it capital in Kingdoms because I have seen it happen in the Teutonic campaign as well. This means that the idea of Guru might be possible. But there is an other problem. In the upper left part of the map is the village Cochimi Camp. This is only reachable with ships. Unless you can convince the Spanish to capture and hand it over that as well, I think that without cough! cheating cough! total domination as a native faction is impossible.

Unless someone discovers an easter egg: ocean going canoes.