View Full Version : Bill O'Reilly meets civilisation.
InsaneApache
09-27-2007, 09:48
What a moron.
"There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, 'M-Fer, I want more iced tea.' You know, it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb. People were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn't any kind of craziness at all."
I liked this quote.
Paul Waldman of Media Matters fired back: "If Bill O'Reilly got caught robbing a bank he would say he was taken out of context."
:laugh4:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2177841,00.html
Seriously, what did he expect? Guys and gals in grass skirts jumping up and down shouting 'wogga wogga'.
This helps to confirm what 'mom' has told me over the last few years. She says that the USA is in reality 2 or 3 different countries, depending on your race.
Is O'Reilly an example of this?
CountArach
09-27-2007, 09:58
Bloody moron.
racist moron....
at least have the courage to stand by the stupid things you say......but no....it´s always a" mis-understanding" or "taken out of context".....
yeah Bill´s out of context.....by about 200 years.
This helps to confirm what 'mom' has told me over the last few years. She says that the USA is in reality 2 or 3 different countries, depending on your race.
That would put your mom in the same league with O'Reilly. Thump that chest in pride my mighty european friend ! :logic:
Proletariat
09-27-2007, 13:44
Pretty sure IA's mom is American. She's wrong anyway, if she really thinks O'Reilly's views on race are echoed all over America.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-27-2007, 14:13
O'Reilly is nearing the end of his career -- or would be if major journalists did not commonly work into their 70s.
His generation is the generation of my parents. He undoubtedly meant the statements as a compliment -- an attempt to assert that there is no valid reason for difference/sense of difference.
The "velvet racism" label is a telling one. Does O'Reilly consider himself a racist or would he knowingly act in a discriminatory manner because of race? Of course not. Is he still a prisoner of the mental constructs of his generation -- the systemic racism that underlies the "velvet" label? Pretty likely. My mother won't admit that some of her attitudes are racist either -- because in her head they are not. Bull Conners is easy to identify and ridicule. Mental police work in the corners of your mind much harder. I still have odd thoughts/beliefs that my parents instilled that don't make sense -- takes ongoing active effort to weed them out when they crop up.
Those born after the "Boomer" years have less of this stuff trapped in the corners of their mind. The next generation, even less.
Crazed Rabbit
09-27-2007, 18:21
The furore is the latest evidence that previously untouchable rightwing talkshow hosts are now vulnerable to scrutiny as a result of blogs.
I guess according to the guardian the age of the superhuman titans known as pundits is over! Really, they've never been untouchable.
Now it seems that Bill is a 'velvet racist' or whatever, but his words may have been magnified by the extremely liberal media matters and then again by the guardian.
CR
Watchman
09-27-2007, 18:22
Or he's just an ass. Since when did anyone have any shortage of those ?
Or he's just an ass.
I think Watchman is right on the mark, His book "cultural warrior" was a real gem...
It surprises me that a white man can be intelligent enough to be a velvet racist, though it's good to know.:beam:
Geoffrey S
09-27-2007, 18:57
Unfortunate he's famous. If it were any older person, like a grandparent, it would be put down to getting on a bit and possibly senility, accompanied by a shake of the head. But he's famous, so he gets quoted and ridiculed; though it's debateable which is worse, that he's still in business at his age or that he's being grilled over this.
HoreTore
09-27-2007, 19:08
How much does it take to accept that some people are bloody racists?
Watchman
09-27-2007, 19:13
Not much in my case; I tend to be somewhat cynical of my fellow man.
Out of idle curiosity, why is it all the "voices of the Right" in the States, as well as apparently virtually all the Republican bigwigs, seem to be "White" ? I've wondered about this for a while now.
Crazed Rabbit
09-27-2007, 20:41
Out of idle curiosity, why is it all the "voices of the Right" in the States, as well as apparently virtually all the Republican bigwigs, seem to be "White" ?
Probably because the media emphasizes that view.
One of the biggest Conservative voices is Michelle Malkin, asian american woman. Heck, O'Reilly is much more of a populist than a conservative. just listen to his illogical rantings on oil prices.
CR
Probably because the media emphasizes that view.
One of the biggest Conservative voices is Michelle Malkin, asian american woman. Heck, O'Reilly is much more of a populist than a conservative. just listen to his illogical rantings on oil prices.
CR
O'Reilly is no conservative. He's far too pro-regulation. Anything that he doesn't like, he calls for new laws to fix.
Both party's leadership are almost totally white. Bush's administration has seen more minorities in it than many previous to it. But, personally, I don't care what race someone is- they should be given positions on merit alone.
Geoffrey S
09-27-2007, 21:28
How much does it take to accept that some people are bloody racists?
Doesn't really come into it. My grandparents if asked about relevant matters prove to be easily as racist as O'Reilly. Let's face it, the older generation is by and large stuck in its views; the difference between my grandparents and O'Reilly is that no-one gives my grandparents airtime. I find it curious such relevance is placed on an old man's rants.
CrossLOPER
09-27-2007, 22:02
Or he's just an ass. Since when did anyone have any shortage of those ?
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/CrossL/glenn_beck_pointing.jpg
Anyone call?
InsaneApache
09-27-2007, 22:23
Doesn't really come into it. My grandparents if asked about relevant matters prove to be easily as racist as O'Reilly. Let's face it, the older generation is by and large stuck in its views; the difference between my grandparents and O'Reilly is that no-one gives my grandparents airtime. I find it curious such relevance is placed on an old man's rants.
That's me buggered then. :egypt:
The Wizard
09-27-2007, 22:54
Regardless of anything, Bill O'Reilly makes me think of owls, doubt, and famous Internet memes. Only then do I remember he's also some paleoconservative nutjob.
Geoffrey S
09-27-2007, 23:12
That's me buggered then. :egypt:
Hmph. Reading my post again, it's very generalized. Guess I could allow for some elderly/oldish(/anyone over 50...) people who can still think straight... ~;)
Louis VI the Fat
09-27-2007, 23:23
This helps to confirm what 'mom' has told me over the last few years. She says that the USA is in reality 2 or 3 different countries, depending on your race.
Is O'Reilly an example of this?If I remember correctly, your 'mom' is your Black American stepmother. I think she is spot on. Of course America is divided along racial lines, to its very core.
As for O'Reilly, I don't know what to make of his remark. I don't know more about him than 'conservative Fox pundit'. I can't judge his character.
For all I know, he intended it in a positive way. 'Well, what do you know...I may need to revise some of my opinions...'
And sixty years ago, telling a Black man that he is up to the standard of a middle-class white person was a compliment, nowadays it is a grave insult. The underlying assumption has changed.
But I don't know him and I don't reilly care if I never do.
More interesting to me are some reactions from some Americans here. Some are, not for the first time, close to denying that America is a racially divided country. Which seems a clear, undisputable description to me.
It is possible to be a racialist country without being a country of racists! I don't think a whole lot of Americans have more than a single use for their bedsheets. Maybe they are a bit fed up with that racial guild trip? Maybe the race card is pulled a bit too often?
But racial divisions occur through more subtle forces. It is for the most part not owing to any deliberate, methodical effort, by either individuals or larger groups.
Racism can be very subtle. It can work through very subconscious means. O'Reilly is a good example. He may not have even been aware of his racism.
Racial identity runs deep. Who is really colourblind? Who never ever judges a person not stricly as a person but as a representative of his etnicity? Here's a test: I started this post by stating that IA's mom is a Black American. Did it for you, even subconsciously, add extra weight to her assesment that America is several countries in one? Did you not, not even to a tiny extent, think 'well she's Black, she would know about these things'?
I know I did, briefly. I also realise some subtexts of it: apparently, to me at least, Black Americans are the spokespersons for American racial issues. Hence victims, not perpetrators. Something is done upon them. They undergo, not act. Passive.
I filtered her statement through a whole set of subconscious meanings. All of which make me an O'Reilly lite. :inquisitive:
At least he's taking it like an adult (http://www.digg.com/politics/O_Reilly_If_I_could_strangle_these_people_not_go_to_hell_and_get_executed):
"These people aren't getting away with this. I'm going to go right where they live. Every corrupt media person in this country is on notice, right now. I'm coming after you." He went on to warn: "You smear somebody and you can't back it up, you're gonna get it. ... You go after somebody's family, you go after them and smear them with defamation that you can't back up, I'm coming to your house. I'm coming to your house. You'll have a camera up your nose. OK?"
Uesugi Kenshin
09-30-2007, 04:10
At least he's taking it like an adult (http://www.digg.com/politics/O_Reilly_If_I_could_strangle_these_people_not_go_to_hell_and_get_executed):
"These people aren't getting away with this. I'm going to go right where they live. Every corrupt media person in this country is on notice, right now. I'm coming after you." He went on to warn: "You smear somebody and you can't back it up, you're gonna get it. ... You go after somebody's family, you go after them and smear them with defamation that you can't back up, I'm coming to your house. I'm coming to your house. You'll have a camera up your nose. OK?"
O'Reilly really needs to take some valium, maybe that'd bring him down to a normal level of unreasonable rage and hatred...
InsaneApache
09-30-2007, 08:18
O'Reilly really needs to take some valium, maybe that'd bring him down to a normal level of unreasonable rage and hatred...
I wouldn't recommend anyone partaking of the benzodiazepine family of drugs. Very nasty stuff to get off. No, what he needs is a big, fat spliff. :balloon2:
PanzerJaeger
09-30-2007, 10:54
edit: nevermind, its not worth the warning.
Needless to say - coming from a community with a large black majority - I can understand how O'r would be surprised there are places where blacks do not embrace thug culture.
Del Arroyo
09-30-2007, 12:51
What Bill O'Reilly said was not tactful, but it was honest. I'm sure he was very impressed to see a black restaurant which met all the high-class standards of, to use his words, "a nice Italian restaurant in a white suburb". So would the vast majority of Americans. The vast majority of Americans would think exactly what Bill O'Reilly said, then point fingers at him and act shocked. Because people can be hypocrites.
What O'Reilly said was massively condescending, which is inappropriate for a public figure with that kind of visibility.
And as far as him chasing people down into their homes, WTF??
Ironside
09-30-2007, 13:20
What Bill O'Reilly said was not tactful, but it was honest. I'm sure he was very impressed to see a black restaurant which met all the high-class standards of, to use his words, "a nice Italian restaurant in a white suburb". So would the vast majority of Americans. The vast majority of Americans would think exactly what Bill O'Reilly said, then point fingers at him and act shocked. Because people can be hypocrites.
:inquisitive:
Are you telling me that the vast majority of Americans can't really differ from "da man in da hood" and Colin Powell (or insert any other successful black american)?
If thats true (wich I doubt), then US truely is a racial society.
Europeans should be very careful about pointing racism fingers as a generalization at America. I could point out a few condemning instances of racism that happens in different parts of Europe, does that make all Europeans racist? Unfortunately all nations still have narrow minded folks that live within their borders that believe the color of the skin or what ethnic group one's background is important.
Bill O'Rielly made a stupid comment that crosses the line into a racist comment, and his subsequent reaction is acidine.
Del Arroyo
09-30-2007, 13:29
Are you telling me that the vast majority of Americans can't really differ from "da man in da hood" and Colin Powell (or insert any other successful black american)?
What I am saying is that the vast majority of White-, Mexican-, and Miscellaneous-Americans hold a certain set of preconceptions about Black-Americans, which are re-inforced by Black-Americans who hold these same preconceptions about themselves.
For example, Colin Powell's "black"-ness has been publicly challenged on more than one occasion.
ICantSpellDawg
10-01-2007, 19:02
Be proud of the stereotypes that you develop on your own about race, religion, culture. We create them for a reason. At the same time recognize that you harbor those feelings and don't necessarily take the stereotypes of others as your own without empirical research.
I am an avowed bigot and stereotypist.
InsaneApache
10-01-2007, 19:30
For example, Colin Powell's "black"-ness has been publicly challenged on more than one occasion.
As in 'Uncle Tom' or his heritage? :inquisitive:
Crazed Rabbit
10-01-2007, 19:36
At least he's taking it like an adult (http://www.digg.com/politics/O_Reilly_If_I_could_strangle_these_people_not_go_to_hell_and_get_executed):
"These people aren't getting away with this. I'm going to go right where they live. Every corrupt media person in this country is on notice, right now. I'm coming after you." He went on to warn: "You smear somebody and you can't back it up, you're gonna get it. ... You go after somebody's family, you go after them and smear them with defamation that you can't back up, I'm coming to your house. I'm coming to your house. You'll have a camera up your nose. OK?"
Bit out of context, isn't that? Media matters is a very leftist organization that will lie and deceive to impugn the people they don't like. They are going to do their darndest to twist his words and show only the parts that incriminate him.
A note on America; liberals often denounce conservative Blacks as 'oreos' and 'uncle toms' - because they don't toe the leftist line on issues. Leftists in this country apparently believe all Blacks are supposed to have one monolithic opinion, and that deviation from that makes them less 'black'. They also embrace and encourage 'thug culture' perpetuated by gangster rappers and give it legitimacy.
CR
Ironside
10-01-2007, 19:51
A note on America; liberals often denounce conservative Blacks as 'oreos' and 'uncle toms' - because they don't toe the leftist line on issues. Leftists in this country apparently believe all Blacks are supposed to have one monolithic opinion, and that deviation from that makes them less 'black'. They also embrace and encourage 'thug culture' perpetuated by gangster rappers and give it legitimacy.
CR
And who can spot the irony in this post? :laugh4:
You might have a point in that some people does it. This "gangsta culture" is interesting though, as it seems to be a cultural phenomena linked with race. This small shift could hopefully end up in something more decent than the current way. I suspect that "gangsta culture" will live a different life than "black gangsta culture" in the end though.
But the way you said it :laugh4:
InsaneApache
10-01-2007, 22:23
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
A note on America; liberals often denounce conservative Blacks as 'oreos' and 'uncle toms' - because they don't toe the leftist line on issues. Leftists in this country apparently believe all Blacks are supposed to have one monolithic opinion, and that deviation from that makes them less 'black'. They also embrace and encourage 'thug culture' perpetuated by gangster rappers and give it legitimacy.
CR
WTF you on tonight man? That's really offensive to me. :wall:
AntiochusIII
10-01-2007, 22:26
Europeans should be very careful about pointing racism fingers as a generalization at America. I could point out a few condemning instances of racism that happens in different parts of Europe, does that make all Europeans racist? Unfortunately all nations still have narrow minded folks that live within their borders that believe the color of the skin or what ethnic group one's background is important.Two wrongs don't make a right. A legitimate criticism is legitimate whether it comes from a hypocrite's mouth or not.
WTF you on tonight man? That's really offensive to me. :wall:
You are an American Leftist? :inquisitive: I think you are misinterpreting who he is referring to with the "They" pronoun.
Crazed Rabbit
10-01-2007, 23:20
WTF you on tonight man? That's really offensive to me. :wall:
Um...are you joking?
:inquisitive:
CR
IrishArmenian
10-01-2007, 23:47
I couldn't help returning to the backroom for this!
What an idiot! "All white suburb?" Is there still segregation in America? How could he think that being respectable and black is a paradox?
Watchman
10-02-2007, 00:00
Um...are you joking?
:inquisitive:
CRDepends, I guess. Were you making rude and sweeping generalizations of the American Left, American Blacks, or both ?
Louis VI the Fat
10-02-2007, 00:24
CR made an anti-racist slur at the American left. :sweatdrop: :study:
What an idiot! "All white suburb?" Is there still segregation in America? How could he think that being respectable and black is a paradox?Because he is 147 years old? Forever stuck in the 1950's?
Other than that, I'm afraid there still is social segregation in America. I've been to North Carolina. And there really are two Carolina's - and that is disregarding the Southern one.
PanzerJaeger
10-02-2007, 01:09
Yep, in Europe ethnic groups don't tend to live together and America is still segregated. ~:rolleyes:
Watchman
10-02-2007, 01:14
The apartement building next door to where I live seems to have a fair few African emigrés in residence you know. They seem to get along with their native neighbours well enough, and the kids do not appear to have any trouble sharing the sandbox and the bushes.
Just a random anecdote.
Most of them, incidentally, cannot have gotten here before the early Nineties or so.
Crazed Rabbit
10-02-2007, 04:36
Depends, I guess. Were you making rude and sweeping generalizations of the American Left, American Blacks, or both ?
Just the leftists - which I do not define as the Democrat party, much less democrats.
CR
Strike For The South
10-02-2007, 05:13
Some blacks embrace the thug culture as do some whites and mexicans. Is this new? Do yall get out? Everyone is different! Hello!
Watchman
10-02-2007, 12:16
When you mention it, I see often enough certifiably White Finnish youth trying to cop the gangsta 'tude these days...
Louis VI the Fat
10-02-2007, 13:40
The point was, and it is a very good one, that according to many leftists, you can't be black and conservative, or wealthy, or succesful. If you are black, and you don't waste your life as a gangsta thug, you are not really 'black' enough for some leftists.
Is there a graver racial insult then to call a succesful black businessman an Uncle Tom? To claim that Obama is not really black? It's all the more enormous because this tripe is usually coming out of the mouth of people who claim a monopoly on morality in racial manners.
It is the perfect mirror of O'Reilly. Both make the same error of equating blackness with a monolithic culture of thuggery and destitution. And they mirror each other also in not even realising their devastating, patronising racism.
That, if I understood it correcly, is the gist of CR's remark.
A note on America; liberals often denounce conservative Blacks as 'oreos' and 'uncle toms' - because they don't toe the leftist line on issues. Leftists in this country apparently believe all Blacks are supposed to have one monolithic opinion, and that deviation from that makes them less 'black'. They also embrace and encourage 'thug culture' perpetuated by gangster rappers and give it legitimacy.
To add to it, here are some more remarks in that confusing, 'stream of consciousness' style that doesn't seem to work well in English. Hence under spoiler tags:
Black, for a leftist, is that single mother, who raises her children in difficult conditions. A victim of circumstance. A black rolemodel, is somebody who does what is normal: not leaving the mother of your child, not using drugs, staying out of prison. Manage any of that, and the leftists will be all over you. But by God, no more than that. Don't cross the line. A black doctor is a betrayer. He has not crossed the line into whiteness, but he has moved away from blackness. Two black parents with two children in a nice suburb, having a meal in a decent restaurant: an anomaly, something that doesn't fit the stereotype - betrayers of the cause, Michael Jacksons - people who have tried to rub the colour of their skin; people beyond the victim stage, not patronisable anymore; you can't go up to them and show that you embrace their lifestyle, that you 'accept' them. A female Black professor of literay studies will be accepted, because she wears colourful African prints and chastises mainstream literature for it's colonial attitude. She is 'black', and they can express their anti-racist zealousness, moral monopoly, by embracing her. A Black professor with a suit and tie, teaching business economics: uh-oh, now way, he's a traitor to his skin. The noble savage that is not a savage anymore.
Geoffrey S
10-02-2007, 15:08
Nice quote from a great film:
White folks ain't trying to keep you down. White folks just don't like to be pushed into a corner. They'll come around. You just got to make it look like it was their idea, like they're the ones that thought of it. They need to feel like they're the great emancipators. Like it was theirs to give in the first place.
Seeing black people being succesful on their own steam has a habit of taking away that positive feeling of being 'the great emancipator'.
Bit out of context, isn't that? Media matters is a very leftist organization that will lie and deceive to impugn the people they don't like. They are going to do their darndest to twist his words and show only the parts that incriminate him.
Here's a sample of the full statement, full audio, unedited (http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070927133754/). It doesn't get any more sane when you listen to it with full context.
InsaneApache
10-02-2007, 17:16
Um...are you joking?
:inquisitive:
CR
No but mistaken. (Again :shame: )
Unreserved apologies CR.
I did indeed mis-read what you posted. :oops:
Ironside
10-02-2007, 17:52
Just the leftists - which I do not define as the Democrat party, much less democrats.
CR
Do you have any finer definition on them then people who's oppinions you don't like or find a bit mad?
As they don't really seem to be linked to the European political left, such as social democrats, socialists, not even commies.
The Wizard
10-03-2007, 14:32
As a listener of rap, I feel compelled to point out that mainstream, commercialized "rap" is really a dead body kept in stasis. I'd caution you not to view it as rap at all, just the horribly deformed child of pop music and New Jack Swing.
Be right back, gotta puke.
Rameusb5
10-04-2007, 20:35
I think that stereotypically speaking there are more black liberals/democrats than conservatives/republicans. Probably this has something to do with the way they were raised. The lines are, of course blurring.
But the truth still remains.
Just as you won't see many openly gay republicans.
Note that I'm not saying that republicans are "against" blacks. It's just history. They're against things that, as a group, blacks support, such as social aid, affermative action, and so forth.
Two wrongs don't make a right. A legitimate criticism is legitimate whether it comes from a hypocrite's mouth or not.
when the hypocrite speaks of it - the meaning is lost since the hypocrite is doing exactly what he is critizing. Racism in America does indeed exist, just like it exists in other nations. Point out the knuckleheads that are racist - but don't generalize all, unless you have proof that all are racist. Should I call all French racist because of the riots involving their immigrants last year? I think not.
In other words - it is legitimate point that O'Reilly made a racist and acidine comment - but it is not correct to generalize all Americans as Racist because of that.
AntiochusIII
10-07-2007, 20:12
In other words - it is legitimate point that O'Reilly made a racist and acidine comment - but it is not correct to generalize all Americans as Racist because of that.I don't dispute that; quite the opposite in fact. But it seems from your newest post that your problem is with generalization rather than hypocrisy, in my opinion.
Crazed Rabbit
10-09-2007, 03:12
Hmm. Unsurprisingly, media matters exaggerated and took it out of context.
An overview of the lies spread by media matters:
http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2007/09/bill-oreilly-harlem-restaurant-flap.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/in-defense-of-oreilly_b_66047.html
Spin Zone Bill haters are having another field day with Bill O'Reilly after his latest shoot from the lip seeming insult of blacks. At first glance O'Reilly's quip on his radio show that he marveled that black diners at Harlem's famed Sylvia's restaurant were "respectful," didn't utter m'f s when they ordered, and acted, well, like white folks, in a suburban Italian restaurant, looked and sounded dumb and racist. O'Reilly haters trotted out a string of other O'Reilly borderline race tinged cracks and gaffes over the past years as proof that O'Reilly is at best racially insensitive and at worst an unreconstructed bigot.
Spin Bill is a jello-soft target for dumping the racist tag on. But aside from his usual acerbic take-no-prisoners, let fly with the cracks style, the talk show host didn't say anything that was earth shatteringly offensive. And he certainly didn't say anything that many whites, non-blacks and a fair number of blacks don't routinely whisper behind closed doors. That is that blacks supposedly act crude and uncouth in public. There's no mystery why so many would think and say that. The nightly newscast's steady diet of crime, drugs, violence, poverty, and dereliction news about life in inner cities reinforces the belief that black neighborhoods are cesspools of neglect, decay, and ill-mannered, bad behaving folk.
See also this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhe00QSlBI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fradioequalizer%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2007%2F09%2Fbill%2Doreilly%2Dharlem%2Drestaurant %2Dflap%2Ehtml
That's the liberal black guy, a journalist for NPR, who was on air with O'Reilly while he was talking, and is defending O'Reilly.
Media matters lied and deceived to get their way. Again. Why am I not surprised?
Another foolish remark from O'Reilly, but it doesn't make him a scummy racist.
CR
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