Pahlava Questions

[george585]

Hi!
I first posted this in another thread but got no responses, so I hope this thread is a better place...
I have a few questions I got when playing my Pahlava campaign. Some of these questions are not purely technical and some are not purely EB related though. I am playing EB 0.8 v1.a with all fixes btw.
1. First of all I just don;t get it why some settlements around modern Israel like Palmyria and some settlements in Anatolia are so difficult in terms of Public order even when their populations measure below 500!!!!!! I would really appreciate if some of you download and load my game to see what I mean and recommend something - http://uploaded.to/?id=56li7z
2. I don't understnad how public order works in RTW: that is graphically frequently I would see more benefits in the POSITIVE section than the negative, and yet order might be way below 70%. Why?
3. I don't get at all why I see different numbers as far as number of casulties and killed on both sides in different places: on the battle map it would say one thing, then on the statistics right after battle it would say another thing, and when finally it loads back to strategic map and I review my army - I would see yet another numbers! Any ideas?
4. Can anyone please explain how armor/defence bonus works with hit points and attck (both mele and missile) or provide a link to a page where it is clearly explained? I mean I would like to know statistically what difference would it make to have 4 missile attack vs 6 for example?
5. And finally - I wanted to improve my geme exeprience by applying some cheats - not to cheat of course, but to offset the effects of infrequent CTDs, and very poor performnace of auto_win (I play better than that quite often... not to mention it lets the enemy general run away - I don't :)), as well as try to compensate for rediculous at times strategic AI (Rome and Epioros would establish client kingdoms almost every turn for 20+ turns in a row, even though originally Rome had more than enough armies to completely take Sicily from Epeiros). So.... my question is why only very few console commands work? process_rq, kill_faction, and many others do not work at all - they are not recognized? Is there supposed to be a special way to turn them on?
Thanks.
George

[Admetos]

3. I don't get at all why I see different numbers as far as number of casulties and killed on both sides in different places: on the battle map it would say one thing, then on the statistics right after battle it would say another thing, and when finally it loads back to strategic map and I review my army - I would see yet another numbers! Any ideas?

While on the battle map, you can sustain casulties from friendly fire, but these don't count towards the amount of men you're enemy has killed in the shown on the statistics screen after the battle. For the strategic map, I think your army can heal a small number of casulties, although I'm not certain.

[george585]

While on the battle map, you can sustain casulties from friendly fire, but these don't count towards the amount of men you're enemy has killed in the shown on the statistics screen after the battle. For the strategic map, I think your army can heal a small number of casulties, although I'm not certain.

The only logical explanation I may see is that if you win, you regain some of the "lost" units, as in real life they might have been only woonded - not killed.

But just an hour agao.... on the battlefield I lost 5 HAs, yet after battle (I won) they all "magically" returned (I am happy of course... but still question remains...)

[Admetos]

I think that is quite probably right, on the battle statistics scroll, there is a button that lets you look at detailed statistics per unit, eg casulties inflicted, and there is also a column for casulties healed.

[Cheexsta]

1. I have asked this before. Negative "Public Order" in a province can be broken down into several parts:
I. No governor/garrison - fairly obvious.
II. Squalor - the size of a city in relation to its government building can produce squalor. The only way to get rid of it is through upgrading to the next level, and even then you're going to have some left anyway.
III. Distance to capital - also pretty self-explanatory.
IV. Unrest - caused by bad governor traits and enemy spies. Newly-conquered settlements normally have a few points in Unrest as well, but that disappears after a few turns.

The problem I've noticed is that some cities - particularly those on the East Mediterranean coast, as well as others like Gader and so on - have an unusually high Unrest level. Training dozens of spies doesn't help (as they normally would capture enemy spies), and having a good governor doesn't get rid of the Unrest itself. When I asked about this, the response Teleklos gave me was that EB hasn't consciously done anything to affect it, even though EB is the only mod I've seen with this effect.

2. There could be a few reasons for this. Each icon (or "pip") does not represent a set amount of positive or negative Public Order influence; hold your cursor over any pip type and it will show the total amount that type contributes to PO. Holding your cursor over any Squalor pip will show you how much Squalor is contributing to your PO in total. You may also notice some pips are faded or flashing. A faded pip shows you that you will be gaining some points in any given area next turn, while a flashing pip shows that you will be losing some points (same goes for projected income/expenditure). I hope that made sense; to demonstrate it, try constructing a building that adds to your income (mines are perfect for this) and then look at the settlement details screen.

3. As already stated, it could be due to friendly fire. Also note that the "Men" column also includes soldiers that have been successfully healed and should correspond to the numbers that you get when you review your army on the strat map.

4. This is one of the mysteries of the RTW engine that CA doesn't want us to know about exactly. Some people have theorised that it's like rolling a number of dice equal to the stat in question; an attack of 4, for example, would roll 4 "dice." As far as I'm aware, no one really knows how the system works, exactly. If someone does, I'll stand gladly corrected.

5. Many of the console commands only work when triggered through a script. kill_faction, toggle_perfect_spy, force_diplomacy and so on don't work in the RomeShell console, but do work in scripts. If you want some "on the fly" balancing of the AI, my favourite command is the "add_money" cheat. Use it like this:

add_money [faction], [amount]

The amount must be between -40000 and 40000. Also note the comma after the faction's (internal!) name. So, to take money from a rampaging Arche Seleukeia, you would type the following:

add_money romans_julii, -40000

You may (or probably will) have to repeat this several times to get any real effect. Another favourite is:

move_character "[Full Name]" [XY coordinates]

Though you'll have to reference names.txt to get a character's full name (case sensitive) and use the show_cursorstat command to find the coords of the target location.

Hope that answers your question.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You're right Cheex - we have not done anything to make it harder to rule there (in comparison to anywhere else). We don't get as much of a chance as others to play the game though, so we don't see that problem occurring as much - I think that's the best answer we have right now. The ways of the .exe are varied and shrouded in mystery sometimes. I just try to enjoy the ride as best I can.

[george585]

Thank you for your detailed responses, Cheexsta!



The problem I've noticed is that some cities - particularly those on the East Mediterranean coast, as well as others like Gader and so on - have an unusually high Unrest level. Training dozens of spies doesn't help (as they normally would capture enemy spies), and having a good governor doesn't get rid of the Unrest itself. When I asked about this, the response Teleklos gave me was that EB hasn't consciously done anything to affect it, even though EB is the only mod I've seen with this effect.


Hmm I guess anyone's strategy here would be to wait many turns while those cities are under AI's control, so AI can build some order bonus adding buildings, so that when you conquer it, the situation won't be as bad.

I have two more small questions on this note though:
a) To prevent enemy spies entering and expose existing spies in the city is it enough to just recruit a spy in the city and leave him there for one turn or simply relocate the spy to the city, or there are some extra requirements?
b) Does Euletheroi build its cities as much as other factions?



4. This is one of the mysteries of the RTW engine that CA doesn't want us to know about exactly. Some people have theorised that it's like rolling a number of dice equal to the stat in question; an attack of 4, for example, would roll 4 "dice." As far as I'm aware, no one really knows how the system works, exactly. If someone does, I'll stand gladly corrected.


WOW! A totally unexpected answer :) I would have never imagined they would keep such a simple thing a mystery to everyone. But then...how do the modders come up with the values they have? Is it just guess-work and testing?

Also, all I really wanted to know for instance, is how much better would Parthian Armored HAs perform in comparison to Daha Noble Cavalry (who have just slightly lower stats)? I gess I will need to find this out myself in battle...



5. Many of the console commands only work when triggered through a script. kill_faction, toggle_perfect_spy, force_diplomacy and so on don't work in the RomeShell console, but do work in scripts. If you want some "on the fly" balancing of the AI, my favourite command is the "add_money" cheat. Use it like this:

add_money [faction], [amount]

The amount must be between -40000 and 40000. Also note the comma after the faction's (internal!) name. So, to take money from a rampaging Arche Seleukeia, you would type the following:

add_money romans_julii, -40000

You may (or probably will) have to repeat this several times to get any real effect. Another favourite is:

move_character "[Full Name]" [XY coordinates]

Though you'll have to reference names.txt to get a character's full name (case sensitive) and use the show_cursorstat command to find the coords of the target location.

Hope that answers your question.

Thank you for clearing this for me. But adding money or subtracting it would not help me much... I no longer need to stop AS... I wanted to do this is to "help" other factions to develop in ways I would like see, but with just these two commands it is rather impossible :(

[Cheexsta]

You're right Cheex - we have not done anything to make it harder to rule there (in comparison to anywhere else). We don't get as much of a chance as others to play the game though, so we don't see that problem occurring as much - I think that's the best answer we have right now. The ways of the .exe are varied and shrouded in mystery sometimes. I just try to enjoy the ride as best I can.
Fair enough ~:) I just wonder if there is something that EB has inadvertantly done to affect the Unrest levels in certain towns? As such, I wonder if the cause can be found and applied to towns that were historically a nuisance to control and/or to curb excessive AI expansion in certain areas? Or, indeed, human blitzing...


Hmm I guess anyone's strategy here would be to wait many turns while those cities are under AI's control, so AI can build some order bonus adding buildings, so that when you conquer it, the situation won't be as bad.

I have two more small questions on this note though:
a) To prevent enemy spies entering and expose existing spies in the city is it enough to just recruit a spy in the city and leave him there for one turn or simply relocate the spy to the city, or there are some extra requirements?
b) Does Euletheroi build its cities as much as other factions?
I forgot to mention Culture Penalty in my post above, so that may not work if the AI has a different culture to you (I've seen culture penalties go up to 60-70%!).

a) When you try to get a spy into an enemy town, there is a percentage chance of succeeding. This percentage chance is affected by governor traits (public security) and the presence of enemy spies. The same happens for you; if you have a spy (or some spies) in your own settlement, the AI has a significantly lower chance of getting its own spies in. Should they succeed, they will cause Unrest. It should also be noted that the AI rarely uses spies on your settlements that aren't on their own border.
b) If it has money, then I don't see why not. It just doesn't normally have money, though some minimods seek to address this.


WOW! A totally unexpected answer :) I would have never imagined they would keep such a simple thing a mystery to everyone. But then...how do the modders come up with the values they have? Is it just guess-work and testing?
Pretty much. Most mods follow a simple pattern when determining certain values; units with small shields will get a shield value of 1, while units with medium shields will get a value of 2 or 3 and so on. Then the numbers are tweaked in beta testing. This should give you an idea of the work involved in balancing any large mod, be it EB, RTR or any others.


Also, all I really wanted to know for instance, is how much better would Parthian Armored HAs perform in comparison to Daha Noble Cavalry (who have just slightly lower stats)? I gess I will need to find this out myself in battle...
Try them out in battle or, if you feel adventurous, compare their stats in export_descr_unit.txt. Pay particular note to the values that aren't shown in-game that may still affect the unit's capabilities (and cost), such as Morale.


Thank you for clearing this for me. But adding money or subtracting it would not help me much... I no longer need to stop AS... I wanted to do this is to "help" other factions to develop in ways I would like see, but with just these two commands it is rather impossible :(
No problems, sorry I couldn't help much there. I really wish there were ways to make the AI besiege certain towns through console commands, that would make life much easier...