Small diplomatic question

[Laman]

In my current game as Rus, I have an interesting situation. I am at war with Byzantium and Hungary. Neither of them will accept peace. My war with Hungary is the third (they started them all, the first they besieged a city, got beaten, accepted peace, second sieged two cities, got beaten, accepted peace were they Bran), the Byzantine war has gone on for some time. Mongols have appeared but are having fun in Mesopotamia, and Poland have been a trustworthy ally (and now also vassal to the Danes).

Now the Byzantines won't accept peace, even if I would hand back Sofia (I have taken Bukarest and Sofia from them), and while I understand why they might not have wanted peace earlier (their armies where still powerful) now when their armies have been smashed, their power is very weak, mine is supreme as well as having a very reliable reputation (they are very untrustworthy, they betrayed our alliance, appearantly decided fighting on just two fronts against weaker neighbours was not enough of a challenge).

A generous peace offer of peace and trade rights they consider to be very demanding (if I would throw Sofia into the bargain it is only demanding). I don't want to crush them, but if they continue to refuse my offers, I will have to.

My relations with both of them is abysmal. May this be why they are so unreasonable, and if so, how do I actually improve relations so I can offer peace? If I try to offer them something as a gift they won't accept, they say they can't understand why I would offer them anything. Difficulty is medium, (and I still have 1.0, only got the game recently and the patch is well huge)

[ReiseReise]

Catch 22. They won't accept peace with such bad relations, and it is virtually impossible to increase your relations while you are at war, even if they started it and you never attack them again. They will definitely never accept any offer that is demanding, even if it means their certain death. This is where it gets ridiculous: They might accept your offer if you give them enough territories to make the offer 'generous', however in that case they would probably get more territories than they started with, and they are supposed to be losing this war!

When this happens in my games I just get really angry, stop whatever well-laid plan I had which the war was disrupting, build a massive elite army no matter the cost, no matter the financial straits it puts me in, and show the dogs the price of their insolence - annihilation. After all, I suppose this is total war, not total diplomacy. I'm not even sure why there is diplomacy at all, it never works and only masks the fact that war is the only way to win :laugh4:

[Grog]

Hmm, if you don't object to a bit of diplomatic cheese, the best way is to offer them a settlement open ended.

If you openly offer them say Sofia in your example (ie: a border/desired territory), they will usually return the offer saying give Sofia and state their terms. However, those terms will be bad if your relations with byzantine are terrible, despite your good global rep.

If you offer them a far flung settlement thats of no strategic value to them ie: Riga, they will refuse offer. If you then offer another 'useless' settlement to them openly, they will be pleased and usually get a rep boost. However much you repeat this is up to you as it's very easy to get perfect relations. I limit myself to 5 actions/turn/faction, 3 of which may be 'open'.

As you have a good global rep (good show that chap :2thumbsup: ), this seems to enhance the 'rep boost' although I have no parsing of this it seems to play out ie: at trustworthy+ and perfect relations you can pretty well ask for anything.

However, I find a good way to 'boost' diplomacy is to completely outgun the ai's little autoresolve military brain. ie: if you are wanting a ceasefire, you'll have a heavy stack in the border area with that faction to act as persuasion.

If they have standing armies, I'd give them a chivalrous hoofing first (release) then ask for ceasefire when their standing armies are depleted.

Another way i have found succesful is offer to buy a ceasefire for say 10k florin and 1000/10 tribute but take a territory in exchange. the upfront cash will often entice a poor faction more than it should.

Anyway, have fun with the bartering, I'd start with buying a beard in jerusalem..

[Zenicetus]

Or you could just wait it out. If you're playing at Medium and don't do anything more to anger them (like marching armies on their territory, or taking their provinces), then relations should sloooowly normalize towards the better on every turn. Keep trying for gift opportunities, but realize you may not be able to do anything in the current turn, or even the next few, until relations normalize a little bit in your favor. Diplomacy does work on the M setting (not on H or VH), but you have to give it time.