Hold Formation

[Mephisto]

Tell me about hold formation command.

[DrD]

You forgot to say the magic word.

[DthB4Dishonour]

Hold formation is good for defensive units. They basicly stay in the Formation they are in and just fight off attacks. This is good when you have range units behind them as they will shoot the enemy infantry as the defensive units hold them. (defensive units: most spear units also look at unit description.) If it says bad defense then that unit should attack and not absorb attacks.

RTKPaul of Exidur

*Back into the throng and let life be short for shame will be too long*

[Mephisto]

What about wedge formation + hold formation ?
Cavalary cutting through some peasants to attack archers standing behind ?

DrD:
Was in a hurry.
Sorry.

Hold formation is practically what DTH described. Remember to use it only with units that exploit its potential. If you put a low defense unit (which tends to have high attack to balance it) in hold formation it won't give you the best results. But if you put a high defense unit in hold formation it will be a battlefield tank. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Like that the unit will die really slowly even if its losing and it will hold the enemy's best units long enough to kill the rest. Use it intelligently and you'll win.

Wedge formation is practically the opposite...increase attack bonus but decreases defense bonus. It is used to break the ranks of the enemy unit - like creating a 'breach' in the enemy unit which would be now disorganised. If your unit is under heavy attack don't use wedge - it will die very quickly and will be wasted. Wedge formation units tend to be more susceptible to missile fire altough they run a little faster than close formation units...

But rememeber these words...putting a high defense unit into wedge formation won't make it a killing machine and neither will a low defense unit become a tank when used in hold formation. Use with care and on the appropriate units. Told ya, stats are really worth knowing. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Dionysus9]

Quote Originally posted by Mephisto:
[B]What about wedge formation + hold formation ?
Cavalary cutting through some peasants to attack archers standing behind ?
B][/QUOTE]

If you put a Wedge in Hold formation it is not working to its ultimate potential, for a couple of reasons. Most importantly, men in a wedged unit who are ordered to hold formation will not fullly engage the enemy. Sometimes only the first three men in the unit (top of the wedge) will fight the enemy, while the others just stand in formation. You want to use Wedges in Engage at Will, esp. against a weak enemy. This way your unit gets its attack bonus for being in wedge, and a charge bonus for hitting the enemy, PLUS every man in the unit will attempt to engage the enemy.

So, if you have good Cav against peasants in front of archers.... put em in Wedge, Engage, and charge them at the peasants. The peasants will shit their pants and run, then charge your cav at the archers. Works like a charm!

Just make sure to switch back to close-formation if any dangerous enemy units come around. Getting flanked while in wedge form by superior units will ruin your life.

[DrD]

Quite allright old chum

Hold formation give a +2 defense bonus but a -2 attack penalty. Hold formation also keeps your guys togethor so they can get rank bonuses (spearmen types only.) Also, units that are "disordered" get a morale penalty, presumably hold formation staves this off.

Wedge gives +3 attack but -3 defense.

[Bullethead]

Quote Originally posted by Mephisto:
Tell me about hold formation command.[/QUOTE]

To be a little more specific than some have been so far (apart from combat +/- factors), there's the deal on the Hold Formation command.

You can't understand the effects of Hold Formation w/out understanding its opposite: Engage at Will. The former makes the guys all maintain drillfield formation, dressed and covered, aligned to the right, regardless of what's happening. The latter instead lets the guys break ranks and mob up. Each of these commands is useful for some units in some situations but bad in others.

In general, Hold Formation is best for spears and pikes. These units get additional attack bonuses for supporting ranks, but these only apply if the supporting guys are properly lined up. Hold Formation makes this happen.

The problem with Hold Formation is that it deprives the men in the unit of flexibility. All combat in MTW is resolved on the basis of individual guys, so by making some guys stand behind others regardless, you're taking them out of the fight directly (although they can add bonuses to the front rank in spear and pike units). In addition, guys on Hold Formation orders are less likely to turn to face attackers on their flanks, or exploit an overlap of their unit beyond the flank of their target.

For this reason, it's better to use Engage at Will on other types of units, like swordsmen and polearms. These guys get no bonus from supporting ranks so you might as well let them break ranks. This lets more of them get directly to the point of attack, allows them to wrap around target units of smaller frontage, and lets them turn to face flank attackers.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria

[This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 09-07-2002).]

[Dionysus9]

Wow, I didn't know that swordsmen get no bonus from supporting ranks....where'd you digup that info?

[DrD]

That's exactly right.

All this info is in strat guide. Only spear-types get bonuses for supporting ranks. No swordsmen do. Pole arms (halbedier, billman etc.) are a mixed bag, some do, some don't.

So hold formation for spear/pike, engage at will for all others.

If your spear/pike are kicking butt and the enemey is begining to rout, go to engage at will and let thie killing begin in earnest.

[Jagger]

Whoa...I didn't know any polearm units received rank bonuses. Which ones?