View Full Version : In preparation for 1.0 - How to use Bittorrent
HOW TO USE BITTORRENT
You may be confused by the new flashy tech stuff we (or, to be more precise, I) have been touting the last few days. What is this Bittorrent of which you speak, I hear you ask?
Very briefly, Bittorrent is a protocol for sharing files. Its principles involve chopping up a file into tiny pieces, which those who want to download can get from any source. Once all the pieces are collected, the file is reconstructed and can be used. All the people downloading EB will upload the pieces they have to others at the same time as they're downloading, making it faster the more people are downloading at the moment, as opposed to other ways of distribution where more people downloading means they queue up. For more information, check out this Bittorrent FAQ (http://www.dessent.net/btfaq/#terms)
Even more confused now? Then this is for you.
You want to:
Download a Bittorrent client, for instance uTorrent (http://www.utorrent.com/download.php), BitComet (http://www.bitcomet.com/doc/download.htm) or Azureus (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/).
Install the client of your choice somewhere on your disk.
Click the torrent file that we will make available. Open this file with your torrent client. It should be the default choice of action when clicking it.
Choose the location where EB should be placed!
Play the old EB you've installed until the download finishes!
But it downloads really slow, or not at all!
Some of you will probably have an impediment in your network, and this is the symptom. For instance you could be connected to a university or military network which blocks this kind of traffic (you're screwed), or your own Internet Service Provider does (this can be remedied in most cases but might be tricky). You could want to find a random torrent to experiment on before EB comes out so you're ready when the time comes. The internet is crawling with these links, but be careful not to download something illegal.
If you fail, there will be other mirrors eventually. But if you want to be among the first to get EB, Torrent is your bet! You are encouraged to learn how to get around these network issues. Here's a how to (http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/223583). The Bittorrent FAQ (http://www.dessent.net/btfaq/#terms) mentioned above will also be helpful.
Back to the techy stuff:
Please consider seeding EB, for a couple of weeks if not indefinitely. This means allowing others to keep downloading pieces from you after you have finished downloading them all. The way to do this varies from client to client, but usually involves looking at the properties once it's being downloaded. Find a checkmark or the like denoting something like "Initial seeding", and make sure it's checked. Leave open the Bittorrent client after downloading and it will keep serving it.
johnhughthom
10-10-2007, 06:00
Thanks bovi, you've no idea how useful that was for me, having never used a torrent before I was absolutely clueless.
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 07:43
I assume this is a reasonable way to download even with dial up?
Yes, but it will still take a long while. You might want to consider seeing if a friend can help you out.
Generally, the downstream is dependent on the number of people seeding (uploading). A number of people on the team will probably be seeding long before you guys in the outside world start downloading (leeching). From there on out bits and pieces will be spread out and bandwidth shared among all those participating in the torrent. General etiquette is that you should upload as much as you download, which drastically helps everyone else, but it would be preferable that you leave it open as Bovi stated. Also, by limiting your upstream you limit your downstream.
Do we have to use Bittorrent? I just use a normal download manager can't I use one for EB 1.0?
Do we have to use Bittorrent? I just use a normal download manager can't I use one for EB 1.0?
Once enough people get it via torrent, some kind souls will probably upload it to a few mirrors (like filefront etc), unless we do it first that is...
I'm still confused with this torrents. eg if I have speed limit of 128kbit, does this means that DL speed will be more than that?
I'm still confused with this torrents. eg if I have speed limit of 128kbit, does this means that DL speed will be more than that?
The torrent should ensure that your speed limit is reached but it can in no way increase your bandwidth.
A Terribly Harmful Name
10-10-2007, 15:17
I still like old methods better. P2P always hides some nasty infections around...
The Persian Cataphract
10-10-2007, 15:28
I suppose one could maximize bandwidth through optimization of TCP by tweaking buffer and RWIN values, however that is not relevant to the issue, lest one is pretty hardcore about this stuff.
Bittorrent is great for the purpose of distributing a large file to several people because it facilitates simultaneous upload/download through an individual ring-model effectively eliminating queues (In the ideal condition). There is a whole lot more to this, but it is based on the principle of giving packets to peers who require the specifics, and requesting the packets that you lack; When there are several users, the synergy-effect may exponentially improve. It does require a bit of a know-how on networking to fully maximize the advantages of torrent, but most do learn by pure curiosity after using the system for a while; It's not hard, you download a file which contains a checksum and the address to a tracker, and if your firewall/router/NAT doesn't complain it's smooth-sailing from there. When you finish downloading you automatically become a seeder fully uploading the file packet per packet to the remaining peers. It's not hard, just a different way of downloading things.
So by the sounds of it I am wrong in my assumption that download speed is set by how much you can upload?
Baldrick
10-10-2007, 16:51
Question: Do you have any idea of the size of EB 1.0?
Our proxy at work blocks BitTorrent and the likes (as well as just about anything else of any interest) and I have a download limit on my Broadband at home so I need to start figuring out if my limit will cope or if I need to start tapping up a mate
Intial estimates suggest 650mb for the installer.
Foot
People with limited traffic amount should not seed, as it will probably spend the max capacity on uploads until the limit is quickly reached. Those of you stuck with such an archaic deal may want to consider finding a better service provider, unless it is significantly cheaper to stay with your current one.
I'll post some mirrors (Rapidshare, megaupload, filefront...) when it comes out. I got access to a very nice 2.4mb/s upload/download connection, so it won't take long to put up some mirrors :)
It would be great if you guys would split the installer into segements of about 50~100mb (with winrar or winzip), so I can start uploading the parts I have, while still downloading others :idea2:
Kampfkrebs
10-10-2007, 17:51
I'll post some mirrors (Rapidshare, megaupload, filefront...)
Imagine the idle time between the DLs at rapidshare...no, thats a real torture.
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 17:58
Hmmm 650 MB is almost twice as large as .8x. Looks like I'll have to hit up my pops for his cable connection for an hour or two. :2thumbsup:
Tellos Athenaios
10-10-2007, 18:14
Please do not upload EB to any mirror yourself; it's a waste of time since people on the team will do this too. The reason why we release it as Torrent initially is to get some good speeds quickly; not to bar the people without Torrents from getting a DL.
So the torrent is more of like a "pre-ordered" copy of EB; or seeing it as a way to pay for all the drinks you had on the house in the tavern ~;)
The main reason why the EB team would prefer to handle the Uploading to Mirrors stuff themselves is that we can keep track of where it ends up (useful for tracking the stats); and to make sure that all EB version uploaded are not corrupted.
whoa, a 650 mb exe? How big is the unpacked file, 2 gigs? :inquisitive: :2thumbsup:
EDIT: just checked the mainpage, nearly 100.000 downloads of EB 0.81x (includ. patches). Awesome!
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 18:32
Considering, last time I heard, they changed/added over 19000 files in the game (probably even more now), it probably will unpack into something like 2 gigs.
BozosLiveHere
10-10-2007, 18:58
Considering, last time I heard, they changed/added over 19000 files in the game (probably even more now), it probably will unpack into something like 2 gigs.
Make it 3.6GB and you'll get it right.
Not quite true, Bozos. I count 1.7 GB when excluding the duplicate stuff.
BozosLiveHere
10-10-2007, 19:25
Well, 3.6 is the size of my EB folder...
Tellos Athenaios
10-10-2007, 19:43
My internal build reaches 3.59 GB ... easily. (As in properties of EB folder; size on disk.)
Then again that's the internal build; it may have some left overs from previous versions...
The_Mark
10-10-2007, 19:45
Mine's 1.59 GB, though that's an old build, last of the Helix family.
Call me stupid, but where/how do I find something to test download?
Edit: Nevermind, I found something random to download at http://www.torrentportal.com/
1.2 -> 1.7 gigs? Oh crap. I guess loading with 512 RAM will be longer than Gothic3, and swaps during playing assured...
You play Gothic3 with 512MB? Oh, the pain. Actually, that game was a pain regardless of hardware. Nothing 24 patches can't fix though.
Watchman
10-10-2007, 20:07
eh, fuhgeddit. Brain fart.
Tellos Athenaios
10-10-2007, 20:11
Yeah well, my 3.59 GB's are the result of numerous updates with Tortoise...
Tiberius of the Drake
10-10-2007, 20:14
plz sticky
Tortoise will store a copy of every file for quicker diff. Unfortunately there is no way to turn that off. Half the size is duplicates, roughly.
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 20:23
So the actual file size is ~1.5 gig when unpacked. That's not bad really, considering how much content is in EB.
M2:TW takes 11 gigs for some insane reason (which I assume is because each unit has multiple skins?)
Bovi,
Are you going use my suggestion of Quickpar
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1703737&postcount=80
So we can check the download and repair it with repair files if it's broken instead of DL the whole file again it will probably save a lot of frustration
I'm not going to be the one putting up mirrors. I'll make a MD5 checksum though, so people can check the integrity.
I'm not going to be the one putting up mirrors. I'll make a MD5 checksum though, so people can check the integrity.
Yes OK,
but when it's not ok people have to DL the big file again right ?
Or do I miss understand that
I have a Downloadspeed of 4296Kbps and a Uploadpeed of 762Kbps so for me it is not a big problem to DL the file again but for others with slower connections it will.
So maybe it's wise and nice to have besides the Big download smaller downloads avaible so they can repair the big file with the smaller files
I can take care of this if you want
Ok
I will start to make a small guide for this and will let you read it before i post it when i have EB1.0 installed and running without problems so i know the file is ok and then make the repair files available
Tellos Athenaios
10-10-2007, 22:00
Yet another reason to use torrents... :yes:
Anyhow, IIRC therother will be the one to upload it to mirrors such as FileFront?
well, If i manage to be one of the first one's to finish it on bittorrent ill go ahead and slap it onto filefront for everyone else, whats the rough size packed of eb 1.0?
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 23:36
It looks like ~650 MB for the packed file, and ~1.5 gig once it's unpacked.
That's just what I've gleamed from discussion lately, so take it with a grain of salt.
therother
10-10-2007, 23:41
EB 1.0 is currently 1.8GB, with 24,397 files in 346 folders. It will be around 640MB packed. Which is a bit of an increase over 0.81a.
Krusader and I will upload the installer to various mirrors, as well as setting up the torrent. The torrent will undoubtedly be the first download source available though.
It's no problem to create a par2 set should anyone need them. Torrent has its own correction method so they won't be needed for anyone downloading via that protocol. In fact, if you had a corrupt download, you could probably use that to "resume" a torrent download and have it redownload the corrupted blocks. Might be the most efficient way of repairing a bad download.
The installer itself will do a MD5 check prior to installation, so corrupt installs shouldn't be a problem.
Bootsiuv
10-10-2007, 23:48
Sounds great. Looks like you guy are well organized and ready for the release....so release it already! :yes:
For the love of all that is good and holy in this world, release it and save the puppies, kittens, seals, abous, or anything else that a fan has threatened to club in these forums for the past week. :laugh4:
Dont forget the bootsuiv's.
Watchman
10-11-2007, 01:41
But nobody cares about those. Cold, man. :smash:
Bootsiuv
10-11-2007, 02:32
:beam:
The Celt
10-11-2007, 02:48
But nobody cares about those. Cold, man. :smash:
Hey now we need Bootsiuvs. Who else is gonna make my Bootsiuv Stew taste so creamy?:2thumbsup:
Bootsiuv
10-11-2007, 03:18
:inquisitive:
That's slightly disturbing, in a very disturbing sort of way. :laugh4:
:focus:
Krusader and I will upload the installer to various mirrors, as well as setting up the torrent. The torrent will undoubtedly be the first download source available though.
Let me emphasize that the EB Team does NOT want fans strewing copies of EB 1.0 on various mirrors. Doing so will cause us to lose track of numbers of downloads, and increases the risk of somebody posting a malicious executable. :skull:
Those who take the time to learn how to use a torrent will be amply rewarded by having "first" access to EB v1.0, while those who want to wait for a mirror will have one soon enough. We really don't ask very much of you guys, so please help us out on this. :yes:
Baldrick
10-11-2007, 08:44
People with limited traffic amount should not seed, as it will probably spend the max capacity on uploads until the limit is quickly reached. Those of you stuck with such an archaic deal may want to consider finding a better service provider, unless it is significantly cheaper to stay with your current one.
for significantly cheaper read..nothing
I have an ex wife, a huge mortgage, an 18 month old boy for who the wife no longer works and I occassionally like a pint of beer...free is all I can afford :2thumbsup:
I reckon I shall use the bit Torrent as it worked quite nicely with the previous release..cheers
keep up the good work chaps and please have it out by Christmas as I have to work on Christmas Eve and New Years eve so I need to have something to do as the office will be dead
for significantly cheaper read..nothing
I have an ex wife, a huge mortgage, an 18 month old boy for who the wife no longer works and I occassionally like a pint of beer...free is all I can afford :2thumbsup:
I reckon I shall use the bit Torrent as it worked quite nicely with the previous release..cheers
keep up the good work chaps and please have it out by Christmas as I have to work on Christmas Eve and New Years eve so I need to have something to do as the office will be dead
Christmas? If we even have to wait halfway to Christmas, I.... Well, :skull:
fallen851
10-11-2007, 14:59
If I can interrupt for a quick second, does EB 1.0 take a lot longer to load than .08x?
Thanks.
Tellos Athenaios
10-11-2007, 16:04
Not AFAIK. Then again I am not using one of the lower end machines; but given the fact that the engine will be able to find almost everything in the Mod folder (and thus will have one task per file less to do -- i.e. defaulting to the default Data\...\... folder)...we have better average loading speeds per file I'd say.
Of course a lot of files have increased in size a lot; but a lot of files have been optimized by editing out code that is no longer used & removing commented code. According to Foot the files are the cleanest they've ever been; so that's also a good sign for running speeds.
So to boil it down: my guess is that while some of the loading times may have changed; you won't notice it very much on average.
-Praetor-
10-11-2007, 16:33
If I can interrupt for a quick second, does EB 1.0 take a lot longer to load than .08x?
Thanks.
Of course a lot of files have increased in size a lot; but a lot of files have been optimized by editing out code that is no longer used & removing commented code. According to Foot the files are the cleanest they've ever been; so that's also a good sign for running speeds.
Second that, in my PC it actually runs a little bit faster. :rtwyes:
I got three days free and if you guys release in those three days I can host it almost 19 hours a day, hope it helps
I got three days free and if you guys release in those three days I can host it almost 19 hours a day, hope it helps
Oooh! I bet a month to wait.
(but if I'm wrong it won't be bad :2thumbsup: )
Oooh! I bet a month to wait.
(but if I'm wrong it won't be bad :2thumbsup: )
You are wrong. :beam:
Thank god he's wrong :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Kull didn't say in which direction.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
10-11-2007, 19:19
Thank god he's wrong :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:Yes, he is wrong. Two whole months at the very least... :juggle2:
hm, why size is sOOO big? 640mb from 360, week of downloading lol...
and,...about loading, I have not tested yet but, would speed be increased if move all files from EB folder to main Data? Do I need to edit some files with paths?
I don't know about the speed. Maybe it would crash quicker. It definitely won't work.
Respenus
10-11-2007, 21:39
I have a 10Mbs download and 1Mbs upload (real is around 780 Kbbs). This is the info for connecting to servers very near my location. But, that doesn't mean that I won't seed for as long as possible with unlimited upload speed. I'll even stop other upload just to make you guys happy :beam:
It won't be on 24/7, but from around 2PM to 10 PM GMT+1 (Slovenia) every day. Should get you guys covered!
K....downloading and seeding bit torrent...least I can do....many thanks guys and gals :)
pezhetairoi
10-11-2007, 23:35
My goodness, download speed is incredibly slow, with only 1 seeder and 13 leechers. XD I am told it will take me 2 weeks to finish the download.
Sounds like you're having a network impediment. Or dialup. There are several full seeders already.
The download is going very fast with bittorrent. I'm getting well over 200 kilobyte per second.
It's pure awesomeness :2thumbsup:
Hit 360kbs when downloading
will leave the torrent running over the week end....many thanks....
....wonder what i will do all week end....gonna need to leave the computer on .....:logic:
ElectricEel
10-12-2007, 12:23
Great, turns out my ISP tries to block Bittorrent traffic. ~:angry: Fortunately, cimcurventing this was as simple as checking the 'use encryption' checkbox in uTorrent.
Apparently I have 2 bittorrent clients, but downloading via opera' one...
Is it better to use uTorrent? :inquisitive:
Tellos Athenaios
10-12-2007, 13:27
Great, turns out my ISP tries to block Bittorrent traffic. ~:angry: Fortunately, cimcurventing this was as simple as checking the 'use encryption' checkbox in uTorrent.
Actually that's not so bad. It's a bit of a security check from your ISP: if you don't use encription it's much easier for others to do bad things with the stuff you send/receive.
@Charge: no, or on second thoughts yes: whichever you feel more comfortable with. They can both download using the Bittorrent protocols; so both are sufficient for the task.
Cadwalader
10-13-2007, 12:06
"Seeding" makes me feel like a techno wiz. :2thumbsup:
Well, looks like I need to wait for ftp with re-suming... :inquisitive:
torrent only slower here, and I now can't even resume dl, while filefront give speed that I actually have, but my connection' stability do not allow dl such incredibly big files...
TWFanatic
01-25-2008, 16:45
Forgive me for my lack of expertise in this area, but how do we know what is legal and what is illegal? Obviously downloading EB via bittorent isn't illegal as the EB team is telling us to do it. But what about all those other torrents?
LorDBulA
01-25-2008, 16:50
But what about all those other torrents?
Well it shouldnt be much trouble to find on the internet if given product is commercial or not.
TWFanatic
01-25-2008, 17:51
I'd always thought torrent=illegal. :dizzy2:
LorDBulA
01-25-2008, 18:49
I'd always thought torrent=illegal.
Torrent is just a method of distribution files.
Illegal can be content of distributed files but not the system.
I'd always thought torrent=illegal. :dizzy2:
For quite a while, it was the same with MP3, which is now used widely in all sorts of commercial stuff... It's just that those who distribute illegal files tend to use brilliant new technology way before those who peddle legal content do in any significant way. New technology=risky business model, but pirates don't care about any such risk as it doesn't make any difference to their livelihood.
TWFanatic
01-27-2008, 02:31
Got it. :pirate2:
Copperknickers
05-28-2008, 20:38
I'm really confused:dizzy2:
I have got Utorrent, i have downloaded (< - right word?):download: EB1.1 on it, and have saved it to desktop, now what? It said it didn't know what program to open it with, and when i tried to open it with Utorrent it says it didn't have enough space. :feedback:
LorDBulA
05-28-2008, 21:01
You have only downloaded torrent file (instruction how to download EB for torrent client, utorrent in your case ).
Open this file with utorrent. EB takes around 800MB, so you need to have as much free space at destination to be able to download it.
From your description I gather that there is not enough free space at your drive.
Copperknickers
05-28-2008, 21:38
No i definitely have enough hard drive space (i double checked by uninstalling 2000MBs of programs before i started).
So when i click on the link, and it says save or open what do i do?
Open it with uTorrent, if it's called EB11.exe.torrent or similarly. Tell uTorrent where to put its temporary files and the completed file, and it should start downloading if you have enough space for both these.
LorDBulA
05-28-2008, 21:47
Start uTorrent.
Now click File -> Add Torrent
Select file you have downloaded to your desktop.
New window should pop up asking you for download location.
Choose whatever partition has enough disc space and click ok.
Torrent will start to download EB now.
Copperknickers
05-28-2008, 22:30
Ok thanks, ive downloaded EB1.1 and run the installer application, but there is no EB icon appearing on my desktop, and the 'EB play' icon in the start menu just starts up regualar RTW. I have checked in properties and it says
'target: "C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\RomeTW.exe" -show_error'
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
05-29-2008, 02:06
...add " -mod:eb" to that target...
I'm really confused:dizzy2:
I have got Utorrent, i have downloaded (< - right word?):download: EB1.1 on it, and have saved it to desktop, now what? It said it didn't know what program to open it with, and when i tried to open it with Utorrent it says it didn't have enough space. :feedback:
You first get uTorrent. You download the torrent file. Open it with uTorrent. If it says you don't have enough space, then that probably means you don't have enough space. Delete something on your hard drive.
Copperknickers
05-30-2008, 22:13
...add " -mod:eb" to that target...
Doesnt seem to be working
So what should the target read from:
'target: "C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\ ?
Copperknickers
06-07-2008, 22:39
Anyone? I'm nearly going insane not being able to play EB for so long:help:
You've successfully got the installer from the torrent, so you should create a new thread in the tech help forum to get your installation working rather than clutter up the bittorrent thread.
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