Why no names of cheaters can be posted here

[Erado San]

Every time any player catches a cheater, and he posts the cheaters name here, the argument about this rule starts again.

The rule is simple: no names can be posted here. No exceptions. Proof makes no difference.

Why?

Well, it's the rule and we'll stick to it.

That's a lousy explanation and I know it. So let me explain a bit more.

Cheats happen. True. But also things may happen that may make some honest player look like a cheater. Whenever the 'victim' posts a name, it might happen that an honest player gets his name drawn through the mud. Even if everything is cleared up in the end, his reputation is irrevocably damaged. And that's simply not acceptable.

Then you say 'Hey, I got proof. Look at this screenshot, or this listing of my battle log file...' Give me a good screenshot and five minutes in Photoshop or Corel Draw and I can make everybody look like a cheater. For the Battle log file, well, it's text based. Any idiot can put in names and numbers that can make anybody look like a cheater.

So, even if the victim is a player we all know as honorable, and we can rely on his claim to be true, We can make no exceptions. If you want to keep a list on your own webstie, fine. I definitely recommend having your own black list taped to the side of your monitor. And if you can get even with one of the bastards, well, Glory and Honour to you and your Family.

Forum moderators can and will close threads, or delete them if necessary, or edit the post in which the name was mentioned.

I hope this explains matters once more.

[Catiline]

THanks for the clarification Erado. As I think has been demonstrated we mean what we say about this rule. Shiro and I don't like editing posts, or closing threads, but if necessary we will, and this is one rule that will see no violations. please don't make us enforce it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[EuroSan]

Am i allowed to add this link of the offical battle results????

Link deleted by Erado San. Sorry. Read explanation below.


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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[This message has been edited by Erado San (edited 04-23-2001).]

[Erado San]

For the same reasons, NO! At least, that's my opinion, this has not been decided by this forums administrators. Until I hear otherwise, I think this is NO GO.

You then still use this forum to spread rumours which may or may not be true and could still result in Honorable players getting their name in the mud.

[Catiline]

ummmm what does that demonstrate. If anything it's worse, hey one of these people is a cheater but we can't say which here so we're going to tar them all. Get rid of the link please EuroSan, there are three names there besides theforce.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[Catiline]

Thanks Erado Again http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[EuroSan]

Well i couldnt resist doing that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif



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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[Kurando]

Back when I was the Admin we held a vote on this issue (and a few other things) + the current "no naming names" policy was adopted by a 70% majority of the .org patrons. (We didn't just make it up on a whim + it has served the site very well).

Personally whenever I encounter a situation like this here at .org I endeavour to keep in mind that the cheaters are the ones I am mad at (not the good patrons who are posting the names simply because they are frustrated). -That having been said however: the "no naming names" policy exists for an important reason, and for the greater good of the site + it needs to be upheld.

[Erado San]

Oh, I agree with that. It's more a case of 'don't shoot the messenger', especially if you trust the guy posting it.

And Eurosan, I don't think I could have resisted if I were in your shoes...

[ShadowKill]

there are plenty of clan sites that might not delete the post.you could always find out what the indivule clan site say about it and post there. just an option you might think of using.

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Clan Shades
Shades (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
You are already dead you just don't know it yet!!

[Vanya]

I say we disembowel him alive! But beforehand, we will make him watch his progeny skinned alive and his parents dipped in acid! His servants will be chopped up, and these pig-dog cheaters will be forced to eat them (chopped servants) as their last supper before they meet their fate!

This should be the destiny that awaits cheaters!

I'm whipping up a POSSE to go LYNCH the pigs!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA!

[lei]

Alllllllllrighty
enough's enough, and when two moderators plus another even higher ranked ex-moderator tell us all NO, i guess we all should start PAYING ATTENTION. hell, i get ticked off just as much as the next guy by cheating, but the facts are that if accusations can fly about such a highly thought of forum as the Org's sword dojos, then pretty soon everyones gonna be "looking over their shoulders" in the online game.

it's about HONOUR people, and don't you lot forget it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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TIGER LILY!!!
check it out for yourself at: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.surman/frames.html

It seems that this thread is heading for closure...

I am realizing that if we legalize names posting this forum will become boring, flaming and extremely annoying.

My 2 cents.



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Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre at: http://terazawa.totalwar.org

[ShaiHulud]

Good! Cuz a rule that is only loosely enforced is merely a suggestion. Everyone should feel better knowing that THEIR name will not be inadvertently be dragged thru the mud.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[theforce]

Hi guys. Only thing l did was to point a cheater which was a real thing. It was a 2v2 so l have my ally who can say what happend. Also the log part is true and if anyone has any doubts bout it l can send him da pics l got and plz tell me if they are fake or not. Just e-mail me to send em to you if you would like. I really can't find a reason why you are making this such a big thing guys bout the names cause in the future we can have half the community cheating, and with protecting cheatets you add to let cheating keep going.
All his men had 9 little flags on them and yes CA beat h4 YS uphill and 3wm took an entire army out and it wasn't pleasant. I shall never post a name or thin back here but there should be a shitlist in the clan site where ppl can see who are the cheaters. I rest my case.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://darksideclan.fateback.com
Enter the Darkside...

[Catiline]

{b]theforce[/b] I understand your point of view, but there are many cases that aren't nearly so clear cut. No one is accusing you of fabricating anything, and whilst we believe you, and it is unlikely that anyone who read the name will ever play that user again, the fact remains that this is a rule the majority decided we need to enforce. Shai has rather neatly summed up the problem. To have one person inadvertantly vilified and dishonoured when they are innocent is infinitely worse than having to play cheaters occaisionally, and if we allow the posting of names that is an inevitable conclusion.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Keep in mind, Theforce-san: nobody here has doubted you. I don't play MP, but I'm dead certain that you are a honorable individual, and if you say that someone is cheating, especially when backed up by such good proof as you've provided, I believe you.

But that's not the point. The point is that if the cheater was a Dojo patron (which I seriously doubt), he could make that point about text captures being easy to edit - and nobody could be certain about anything. After that, or probably already before that, the thread would degenerate into name-calling and general all-around flaming, possibly ending up with a permanent bad blood between Dojo patrons. For chrissakes, if some 1st class nutcase wants to sue you for slander because you accused him or her of cheating, we're legally obligated to provide him or her with your e-mail address and whatever else we know about you. There used to be a plenty of examples of unhappy threads like this at the Community Forum before moderating was introduced there. I'm sure nobody wants that to happen here.

So, by all means, keep a private blacklist. Post the names on your own sites, or your clans' sites, if you wish. But don't do it here. The Dojo is a neutral zone; any vendettas or anything else you may have against someone is between you and him or her, don't involve this forum or its patrons in it.

We are most certainly not protecting cheaters, Theforce-san. It was unkind to suggest that we do, but I'll skip it, and say again: we aren't protecting cheaters. We are protecting our patrons. That's all there is to it. Thank you.

I'll make a difficult decision, and keep this thread open. Thanks to the moderators' diligent work, there are too many closed threads already, and I don't want this issue to return to haunt us again later. If anyone still has a reasonable point to make, let him or her make it, and I and the other staff members will try to respond. It's unlikely that we'll change the rules, and even if you disagree, it's OK. We just want you to understand why they exist.

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"2. Yu: bravery tinged with heroism."

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 04-23-2001).]

[angelofhullfire]

I'm very impressed and proud to have conversed with such a considerate and aware bunch of people. :-)

[Shiro]

lei-LOL, amen to that.

Let me add my thanks to everyone else, Erado!

[Zen Blade]

As if we didn't have enough mod. types already here....

I've decided to open my big mouth...

Force, as one of the patrons who voted (so long ago) I can add a couple of reasons for why we decided on this policy. And,
as Kurando said, it was thought out and agreed upon by a vast majority.

Basically, there will always be newer players that will mistake lowering honor of units and other more veteran tactics as being "cheating". Thus, ppl will make mistakes about who has cheated and what not. There will also be players who "feel" that they have been cheated out of a game... You can count me in as one of those. But, where as I tend (not always) to hold my tongue, there are some ppl that don't. And 1 mistake is too many when it destroys a person's rep. And yes, I did vote in favor of not naming cheaters publicly, as well as not showing cheat codes online.

My suggestion: If you have a potential cheat, have a topic that reads "potential cheat" and from that topic have a link to your clan website, not the "cheater's" page. Also, in your post--at your website or here-- explain your argument and invite the accused person to defend him/herself.

My reason for this suggestion is that this takes a bit of time to do and by then you will have had to look over your data/proof.

this being said, I hope ppl to not make public accusations unless they have privately checked it with other ppl first.... Also, Kurando and them could very well disagree with me here.

BUT, if you are not allowed to post a link to your website in your post, then just remind ppl that there is a link to your website on the Org's mainpage.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[This message has been edited by Zen_Blade (edited 04-24-2001).]

[Bodhiharma]

I agree...

Plus? Who's going to stop cheating simply because their name has been posted somewhere? I'd just go out and register a new one...it's really quite simple. Anyway, I'm glad that there's no useless waste of time posting names up on this site...

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[EuroSan]

Bodhiharma.........ever heard of Cd-key http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif...and you can be tracked down by the game makers and banned from the game server.
And i got a good feeling this guy will be http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[This message has been edited by EuroSan (edited 04-24-2001).]

[Zen Blade]

EuroSan,

Are you serious about this CD-key being not only trackable, but bannable???

hmmm...... I can think of a couple of ppl who DESERVE banning (permanently)... don't worry, not going to say any names. But the person acts likes a real jerk (I bet you all thought I was going to use their name).

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[Anssi Hakkinen]

I would guess that if they can identify the 'key, it's possible that they can ban it too. But we don't know if they have the software to do it (probably not), and with the amount of resources they seem to have, it's unlikely that they would bother to code any. IMO it would be possible, but too much trouble for it to ever be realized.

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"2. Yu: bravery tinged with heroism."

[Bodhiharma]

Hmm...

The CD-Key is an idea...but, let me put it this way, to play the devil's advocate:

If I payed 30-50 dollars for the game, and decided that I was going to cheat...Then suddenly I couldn't play online anymore because my cd key was banned...I'd be PRETTY damn pissed, because I payed MONEY to play no matter whether or not I cheated. I mean, what if I had an "epiphany" and decided to never cheat again? It's basically the whole moral issue of capital punishment right here. Whereas, executing a prisoner, in our case, is banning his online play through the banning of his cd-key.

It just doesn't seem right..........

Then again, that's not to say that I want cheaters out there...because cheaters suck and ruin it for the rest of the people. Especially myself, because I'm a newbie, and I'm trying to build up my skills, but people cheat and it makes my efforts useless.

I just don't think banning the cd key is such a good option, because I would yell scream and maybe sue if I had to...you know?

Then again, I don't cheat, so I'm not worried about it...just trying to play the other side of the argument a little.

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Zen Blade]

now that I have more time, and I have thought about it...
over the months there have been (and you guys who are vets can probably guess whom I mean) several real a-holes online that have seriously turned off easily twice their number in players from playing online...

anyway, my point is this... It might actually be IN EA's best interest (economically and publicity-wise) to ban the real jerks from playing online.

does this make sense to anyone else but me??

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[ShaiHulud]

Zen.... I agree

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[UglyJun]

look ERADO i dont care if some 1 slanders my name i know i am not a cheater and my friends do too, so your photoshop arguement doesent hold up for 1 sec. And to let cheats get away with murder just because a few peeps are scared their rep could be ruined is selfish
and egotistical i believe cheats should be exposed no matter what the consequences!!!!

ps:Zen Blades idea of "cheaterssection" hehehe would be cool

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Bodhiharma]

Okay,

Well I still think it's NOT in EA's best interest to ban people's cd-keys, because if you do that then what happens one day when they have that epiphany. Speaking from a business perspective they're bound to lose...I would sue if I had my cd-key banned, because I simply wanted to play the game. Then again, I'm not wanting to cheat, I'm simply playing out the opposite side of this argument............

Now I forgot what else I had to say, because I'm at work and the person I'm working with is out of her mind! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif She also thinks that what I just wrote is funny...

Anyway, you're not looking at it from a business perspective. OH! I remember...

I play Counter-Strike (Halflife Mod) and people get banned from the individual servers by the server admins. Why not do that? Take the person's ip and ban that, instead of the cd-key, because the cd-key doesn't work well business wise for EA.

So what should be brought out in one of the patches is better administration, where the admin can enable a ban from their personally hosted game. That's the way it should be handled, on the personal level, therefore the head offices of EA and the such cannot be held responsible for any banned persons attempting to play. And then, since the community quickly finds and ridicules the cheaters, it will be easy for the admin to recognize them, boot them, or ban them for a personally specified amount of time. I think that's the way it should be run.

Just a thought! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Zen Blade]

Bodi,


I don't think EA could be sued for banning someone from playing.
No where does it say that THEY HAVE TO LET YOU PLAY ONLINE ON THEIR SERVERS.

And personally, I think it would be better for their business. Let's say that 5% of the online pop. cheats (which I doubt, I bet it is lower).... so, you ban 5 % of your potential players, big deal... Those 5% (cheaters, jerks, etc...) easily turn off twice that number of players. Plus, it is a huge public relations boost b/c they get to say that they care about their consumers...

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[solypsist]

Here's the deal:
Totalwar.org in no way is responsible for answering/explaining themselves to anybody.
There are certain rules in place (for good reasons), and as users we have agreed to abide by them. The admins have been very courteous in trying to explain controversial rules; but by no means do they have to. However, they do have a duty to enforce them.
Stop whining like the site "owes you something," or is otherwise accountable to you in the event you disagree with something.
If you openly abuse the rules, prepare to be banned and expect to have your IP disconnected from the site. It has happened before and I'm sure it may happen again.



[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Bodhiharma]

True,

I suppose I agree with that...

But then, if I had my cd key banned, disabling me from playing online ANYwhere...I'd be upset about it, obviously, and I'd take it to Creative Assembly, or whoever it is that made the game, and sue them for not being ABLE to play the game, though I payed for the rights. Seeing as CA has forged an agreement with EA for the individual to have the right to play online on another individual's personal server (*which is served through their own computer, not EA Online..??*)...it just doesn't seem right to have the cd-key banned.

Make banning a personal thing, and it's really a simple program that could be implemented through a patch sent out by the EA or CA guys. There just needs to be more administration allowances given to the individual hosts of games. Make sense?

To me, that seems like a pretty good all around answer...does anyone else agree?

Not that I'm supporting cheating...

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Bodhiharma]

Umm...

Sol? I think you misread something somewhere?...This thread has become less to do with .org enforcing their rules on no names being placed in the forums, and is MORE focussed on how to get rid of cheaters...duh! :P hehe Just playing...but I have a feeling your 1200+ posting ass only read the first post! :P hehehe Me so funny!

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Dark Phoenix]

Bodhi I think that Soly was referring to Jun. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon

[Zen Blade]

Again, Bodi...

I think you are under the false impression that someone HAS TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A SERVER TO PLAY ONLINE. No one has to, you can still play the game without having access to the online servers.

No one has to allow you to play on THEIR SERVERS (they own it, not you... any "agreement between a player and a company" is more of a customer service to gurantee customer satisfaction and customer $$$) and come a few years when STW has been out for a long time, the servers will get axed and then no more online play unless you have a LAN.

you following me Bodi??

This being said, I would perhaps support more of a gradual banning... first offense, a warning. second offense, one week banning.
third offense, a final warning with one month banning. 4th offense, permanent banning.

This would allow someone to change if they wanted to.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[UglyJun]

solypsist just the word ENFORCE is enough to make me feel sick, this is a MB for shogun players to exchange all kinds of info i do not agreee with your faschist attitude of censorship, i dont have a prob with most rules we all voted on but this is to much and we need to discuss it further!!!
ps:banned me if u like for challenging and wanting to discuss YOUR rules!!!

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 04-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Bodhiharma]

Zenner,

In response to your message:

"No one has to allow you to play on THEIR SERVERS" That is what I realize, and am saying, that is why I have said it is best to give the individual who CREATES the server to be allowed administration rights whereas they are able to kick and ban people as they choose. This way if I was a 'cheater' and I tried to play on soandso's server...then he kicked and then banned me permanently from his server. The only person I could be angry with is the person who owned the server. I could not do anything about it, because they have every right to allow whoever they want into their server. This way the companies that maintain, and created, S:TW have no responsibility in the entire situation.

I am only suggesting that either EA Online, because it concerns their clientelle (*because if cheaters grow too large, then they'll lose their S:TW community*), or the S:TW community itself should create a patch which allows the individual player who wants to serve a game should be allowed to kick or ban whoever they want from their server.

This way no one can be in trouble, except for the cheater, who will quickly gain a reputation and probably not get into any other games. BUT! If in the future they change, and they want to play the game without cheating, they can do so as long as someone is willing to allow them access to their server. Make sense?

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Bodhiharma-san:

Firstly, in my (limited) understanding it's not entirely accurate to call individual players' games "servers", as they're up only for a little while and removing undesired elements from them is as simple as pulling the plug on that game and starting a new one (or something to that effect, I don't even know). One thing EA could do, however, would be to allow hosts to view the other players' IP addresses: that way known cheaters could be recognized, even from behind a fake name.

Secondly, I think suing EA for banning someone from the server would be more than a little silly. It's a game, people. If EA's End-User License Agreement doesn't say "we reserve the right to deprive users of the right to use the server if they violate that server's rules", it should. Heck, it could very well say "we reserve the right to deprive users of the right to use the server for any reason" and still be completely legal. It's their server, which BTW is completely free (unlike M$ Zone, for instance), and they have the right to do whatever they want with it.

As for Jun-san, cool off. This thread is open because discussion on the rules is allowed, even though it need not be (we could very well simply say "if you don't want to play ball, get out", but I think that would violate the "forum of the patrons" policy). If you want to discuss the rules then discuss them, instead of posting mindless rants and accuse us of being fascists because we try to enforce a rule that has been voted on by the patrons (see Kurando-sama's post earlier).

I dislike the word "enforce", I really do, but if rules are not enforced, there might as well be no rules at all! But if someone has a serious problem with the rules, then those rules could and should be reconsidered. I had the impression that this rule enjoyed the support of a majority of the patrons. Was I wrong?

As for the actual points you made: Quote look ERADO i dont care if some 1 slanders my name i know i am not a cheater and my friends do too, so your photoshop arguement doesent hold up for 1 sec.. And to let cheats get away with murder just because a few peeps are scared their rep could be ruined is selfish
and egotistical i believe cheats should be exposed no matter what the consequences!!!!
[/QUOTE]...and so, if you don't care, nobody should? Let's put it this way. If someone called you a cheater, would you just ignore him and be quiet?

I didn't think so. You would flame him. And then we would suddenly have a flamewar. And for what? The point is not only that some people could get accused falsely, the point is also that the Dojo should be a place where STW players can gather in peace, without any bad blood or rivalry. The pre-moderation Community Forum flamewars really had a negative effect on everyone there, and were one of the main reasons why I gradually drifted off that forum. This is about the general enjoyability and quality of the forum.

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"2. Yu: bravery tinged with heroism."

[Erado San]

Jun,

You may not care about your rep. Fine. Others may care. Fine too.

Some time in the past we (that is All The Patrons That Were On This Board Then) chose some rules. We (that is The Admins And Moderators) are here to correct ppl when they don't abide by those rules. And even though you don't like the word, that is just another description of the meaning of the word 'Enforce'.

But calling Soly fascist simply because he states we will ENFORCE the rules is below your normal level of intelligence. Must have been a temporary lapse of reason, because I know you better than that.

Bottom line is (and feel free to call me dictator just because I now ENFORCE our policy) that posting of names will not be allowed. For the reasons I mentioned. You may noot agree, we still feel they're valid points.

And if some ppl don't like it, that's just too bad.

[Bodhiharma]

EH! Now we've got it!

"One thing EA could do, however, would be to allow hosts to view the other players' IP addresses: that way known cheaters could be recognized, even from behind a fake name."

That's it right there, that's all I'm suggesting, and then they should have the ability to ban them from their "hosted" (not server as you mentioned, doh, I hate being a newbie!) game, and all future hosted games. Make sense? That way they become little more then a small annoyance on the chat room boards. And even then you can just ignore them! BY GEORGE I THINK WE'VE GOT IT!

As for the sueing thing...well I was simply playing the other side of the argument. I don't have the resources to sue some big company anyway. *crosses his fingers and waits until one day when he's magically rich*

But anyway......It's too early in the morning...wait, it's 3 in the afternoon, and I just woke up! Aaaaah, this is the life! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif hehe

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Zen Blade]

Bodi,

you called me............. Zenner...

ahhhh..... how humiliating... now everyone's pointing and laughing at me....

-Bodi, just one point: Online there are a lot of Asthmawipes who don't play too many games, but are just jerks... now granted, there is the ignore function... but, rather than force everyone to ignore the jerk, it would be much simpler to ban him from coming online at all.

This being said, we are obviously of two different opinions on this matter. However, since I have been around since the game came out, I hope you believe me when I say that I know a number of ppl who don't play anymore b/c there are jerks online... both in-game jerks and in-foyer jerks.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity

[Bodhiharma]

Sorry Zennie,

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

I didn't mean to humiliate you, but in my country, changing someone's name is a form of flattery, and hopeful friendship! SHAKE ON IT!? lol

Anyway, I suppose you're more wise then I am............but it still seems harsh to just up and ban someone for life..."doh" would be the expression used by many when forced into that situation. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif hehe

But there's no use arguing it anymore. So grab your weapon and let's head outside for that duel!

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Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[Didz]

The point was well made that nobody is going to stop cheating merely because their name is posted on this forum.

I would go further and say that given that the motivation of most cheaters is to obtain fame without putting in any effort the publishing of a cheaters name and corresponding heated debate would actually encourage their behaviour.

Better to treat the sad b*stards with the contempt they deserve and ignore them.

[This message has been edited by Didz (edited 04-27-2001).]

[lei]

well i think: CLOSE THE DAMN THREAD
i didn't start the fire, we're trying to fight it but we didn't light it...
does it really take 40 odd posts and multiple threads to clear this up?!?! didz has a very good point, in that we only encourage them with this chit-chat.

this topic has been aired far too much and there is still the same damn conclusion that posting names is forbidden. like it or not peeps, but this argument is tiresome. someone get the hose...

[Bodhiharma]

Dammit Lei,

Then yer jist gon' ruin ALL me fun boy! And YUU'LL PAY fer getting that there darn song stuck in me little tinkering machine ye know! I'll KILL ya, I'll KILLLLL ya! ARGGGGGGH!

------------------
Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[lei]

lol http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
i'll keep singing until this dumb subject is over

[Obake]

OK, I'm gonna try and sum up here. We've actually got a couple different lines of discussion going on here.

First is the Bodhi and "Zennie" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif conversation regarding the banning of cheats. Couple of points here. First off, any discussion of banning from the EA server (not plural) would require the active participation and administration of that server. Ain't gonna happen guys! Why do you think they set us up as peer-to-peer? I'll guarantee you that it wasn't in order to level the playing field between the cable jocks and us 56k'rs. Why do you think that there isn't anyone moderating the foyer? Same reason, it's plug & play and they don't have to do anything other than make sure the server stays up (and we all know what a good job they do there http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif ). And we should all know by now that we aren't going to see any other servers (Zone, M-Player or others) because of CD-key control.

As to the IP banning thought, that won't work either. Reason being that I'd bet 9 out of 10 of us playing online are using DHCP and do NOT have hard-coded IP addresses. As a result, even if a person's IP for that session is banned, next time they dial up, odds are that they'll have a different IP. Unless you want to ban the ISP in which case you are also going to ban everyone else from that source who isn't cheating!

The other discussion we have going here is regarding the posting of alleged cheaters names. Here is my take on it.

The patrons of the Org in all our wisdom (?) agreed NOT to post the names of alleged cheaters for exactly the reasons that have been mentioned. I'm not going to go into them again. Some of us may not like the decision and feel that the staff and moderators are being heavy-handed in their approach, but remember, they are only "enforcing" a resolution we passed amongst ourselves by a 70% majority!

They're just doing what we ASKED them to do almost a year ago! I also believe that this decision has served the patrons of the Org, as well as the greater community well.

This does NOT mean that there are no outlets where information about alleged cheaters can be posted. Virtually every active clan within the community maintains it's own blacklist and in most cases have a Cheaters forum on their own board (such as the Fearful Ways forum for my valued friend Jun!). There is no reason why posts regarding cheaters can't be posted to those boards!

There are only 2 forum where the names of alleged cheaters CANNOT be posted, here and the .com forum. There are at least another 10-20 forum where such information IS posted.

If a majority of the patrons here feel as strongly about this as Jun does, it may be that we should take another look at this issue. Perhaps the Admin could put together a poll on whether or not we should allow the naming of cheats (Yes Terazawa you lazy bum...you actually have to earn that title of yours now! lol) and set it up to ensure that only 1 vote is allowed per patron.

As for myself, I vote now and publicly "No". There are sufficient outlets that a revision to the Org's efforts are not needed.

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[This message has been edited by Obake (edited 04-27-2001).]

[Puzz3D]

Bodhiharma,

Viewing the ip address won't help much because most are dynamically assigned. They change each time you logon or, if they are leased, they change every week or so.

What TosaInu suggests would work better; "one online name per cd key". Allow editing of the clan affiliation so you can change clans. No more hiding who you are.

All of the complaining in this thread should be going directly to EA. If EA doesn't take steps to improve the online experience, the playing community will remain small, and eventually, as Zen Blade suggests, the server will be shutdown.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~