Sooo many mercenaries in Caucasus!

[Sarkiss]

way too many. you can even get Greek heavy skirmishers, spearmen and hoplites there!:inquisitive:
AS comes all the way into Armenia proper, hires the buggers there and attacks Hayastan!:wall:

btw, did Hayastan reform happen for anyone yet?

EDIT: i play on H campaign btw.

[Jurdagat]

I'm playing a Hayasdan campaign, and I'm currently at 224 BC.
And yes, I had the reforms a long time ago.
Right now I'm working on the Orontid Empire reform.

Having a great time and no problems with to many mercenaries yet.
Also playing on H campaign difficulty, otherwise I can't relax while playing. :)

[Sarkiss]

I'm playing a Hayasdan campaign, and I'm currently at 224 BC.
And yes, I had the reforms a long time ago.
Right now I'm working on the Orontid Empire reform.

Having a great time and no problems with to many mercenaries yet.
Also playing on H campaign difficulty, otherwise I can't relax while playing. :)
thanks a lot. ithought the reform is broken or something.:laugh4:
still seeing Heavy Greek spearmen and Classical phalanx being availeble as mercenaries in the heart of Armenia is weird:inquisitive: they shouldnt be there.

[Redmeth]

thanks a lot. ithought the reform is broken or something.:laugh4:
still seeing Heavy Greek spearmen and Classical phalanx being availeble as mercenaries in the heart of Armenia is weird:inquisitive: they shouldnt be there.

The Greeks are just down the Black Sea coast, and so a few Greek mercenaries were added to the Caucasus pool...

[artavazd]

we got everything except armenian units for hire :laugh4: :dizzy2:

[pezhetairoi]

I'm playing a Hayasdan campaign, and I'm currently at 224 BC.
And yes, I had the reforms a long time ago.
Right now I'm working on the Orontid Empire reform.

Having a great time and no problems with to many mercenaries yet.
Also playing on H campaign difficulty, otherwise I can't relax while playing. :)

Just allow me to hijack the thread a little bit, but may I ask how you managed to turn a profit, enough to build what was needed to get the pan-Caucasians? And also, how are the AS in your game? Playing on M/M I conquered all the provinces I needed for the pan-Caucasian reform but couldn't get any money unless I added. Even now with everything south to Antiocheia and Damaskos mine, and the AS cut in two by me, I can barely turn a 2k profit, and this with mines in nearly every city and mining centres under construction.

[bovi]

There are very many mercenaries available, however they are only about a tenth of what was in 0.81. This is because we now use pools spanning several regions. If you recruit one unit, it will be gone from all those regions. Also respawning is drastically reduced, for instance in Italy a given unit would originally have spawned 1.3-2.x units per turn, and will now respawn in minimum 13 turns. Some units will take up to 100 turns to respawn.

Combined with the increase in cost of mercs, I don't think you'll see many all-mercenary armies. Even if one is created, there won't be any left to make another once you defeat it.

[artavazd]

Just allow me to hijack the thread a little bit, but may I ask how you managed to turn a profit, enough to build what was needed to get the pan-Caucasians? And also, how are the AS in your game? Playing on M/M I conquered all the provinces I needed for the pan-Caucasian reform but couldn't get any money unless I added. Even now with everything south to Antiocheia and Damaskos mine, and the AS cut in two by me, I can barely turn a 2k profit, and this with mines in nearly every city and mining centres under construction.


The thing is to take your time. When I play I conquer the two caucaus regions north of Armenia, and disband my troops leaving only a couple of levied spearmen. The armenian general and his units are very tough. Just have about 4-5 of them in Armavir plus the two spearmen, and you will be able to defend your mountain kingdom until the mines are constructed. Once I get my mines upgraded in all three settelments, now I can make a nother army, and liberate Poker Haik ( Lesser Armenia) then built mines there.

PLaying with Hayasdan is very slow and one must take his or her time to get those mines finished.

[different_13]

There are very many mercenaries available, however they are only about a tenth of what was in 0.81. This is because we now use pools spanning several regions. If you recruit one unit, it will be gone from all those regions. Also respawning is drastically reduced, for instance in Italy a given unit would originally have spawned 1.3-2.x units per turn, and will now respawn in minimum 13 turns. Some units will take up to 100 turns to respawn.

Combined with the increase in cost of mercs, I don't think you'll see many all-mercenary armies. Even if one is created, there won't be any left to make another once you defeat it.


Thank god you said that now, that's one of my usual tactics!
:wall:

[Sarkiss]

There are very many mercenaries available, however they are only about a tenth of what was in 0.81. This is because we now use pools spanning several regions. If you recruit one unit, it will be gone from all those regions. Also respawning is drastically reduced, for instance in Italy a given unit would originally have spawned 1.3-2.x units per turn, and will now respawn in minimum 13 turns. Some units will take up to 100 turns to respawn.

Combined with the increase in cost of mercs, I don't think you'll see many all-mercenary armies. Even if one is created, there won't be any left to make another once you defeat it.
im not sure i share the optimism about pools spanning for several regions since you get inappropriate unit types in certain locations, but if that is the only way to reduce mercenary armies spamming then im totally pro.
the good news is that the units now spawn with much less frequency. i cant express how happy i am to hear that. good work there, thanks:beam:

here is the post that prompted me to open this thread
https://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1219/merclv0.th.jpg (https://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=merclv0.jpg)

as you can see there are Greek Heavy skirmishers, spearmen and even Classic hoplites available for hire in the middle of Armenia proper, which i found really blizzard and ahistorical. but considering that it eventually serves a goal of making game more historical and realistic, by reducing amount of the above mentioned armies, i think its a good thing.
thanks for elaboration, Bovi

[Jurdagat]

Just allow me to hijack the thread a little bit, but may I ask how you managed to turn a profit, enough to build what was needed to get the pan-Caucasians? And also, how are the AS in your game? Playing on M/M I conquered all the provinces I needed for the pan-Caucasian reform but couldn't get any money unless I added. Even now with everything south to Antiocheia and Damaskos mine, and the AS cut in two by me, I can barely turn a 2k profit, and this with mines in nearly every city and mining centres under construction.


Well first of all I quickly took two rebel cities. I diden't disband any units after taking these cities. Instead I slowly saved up enough money to build up the economy a little.

What I did was using only 1 standing army, which including with 4 family members (since they are such a great shock unit). It was never full, but it was filled with horse archers and archers. I slowly took another rebel city, then AS eventually attacked me. Then of course I took Karkathiokerta, and after some good battles I was able to run down and grab some big cities just to get some cash. I left them quickly back to the AS, not to overstretch my defendable provinces.
Anyways, this gave me plenty of money to build up mines. Even though I only controlled 5 cities :)

AS has pretty much only been at war with me. But also at war with Pontos, which lost some cities to AS.
Baktria and Pahlava are fighting eachoter I presume, so AS has been left alone. (Note I diden't Toggle_Fow yet during this campaign)
I've been helping pontos a lot against Ptolemy also, by taking lost cities and giving them back to pontos.
Ptolemy is now at war with me, and Pontos is a helpefull ally and semi-buffer. :)


Just remember to use family members in armies, cheap and very effective. :)

Now at 218 BC got two standing armies, 12-13 provinces and making about 13k mnai a turn.

I could try and bring up a pic later with economical status etc.. :)

[jhhowell]

Just to add to the Hayasdan economic discussion, as of the low 260s, high 250s (annoying when years are effectively negative numbers...) my problem has been having too much money, not too little. Thus far I have succeeded in staying below 50k, in one case by raising a few mercenaries to go take that nomad city by the Caspian Sea and in the other by pre-ordering a mine. From a gameplay perspective, the optimal strategy is probably to buy out the entire mercenary supply and go destroy AS, but I chose Hayasdan to enjoy the combo of cataphracts plus decent (by eastern standards) infantry. So I hope to grow my cities and MICs for some time yet before going on a rampage. ~:)

My start was not that different from pewpew. I took Pokr Hayk using the starting army, then moved north (joining with the guy who starts south of Armavir) and took Kartli. My king died then, so for a while I had three FM and three provinces, so no activity. Those cities were turning a modest profit allowing me to build mines, and there you go, no more money shortage. No disbands, though some units remained understrength during the quiet phase before the kids grew up and started conquering again.

[bovi]

as you can see there are Greek Heavy skirmishers, spearmen and even Classic hoplites available for hire in the middle of Armenia proper, which i found really blizzard and ahistorical.
In general, mercs would travel to find work, so I'm not sure how ahistorical it is. I trust our historians will ask for changes if they spot anything completely off the rocker.

[artavazd]

In general, mercs would travel to find work, so I'm not sure how ahistorical it is. I trust our historians will ask for changes if they spot anything completely off the rocker.


Yeah its not ahistorical at all. Armenia was a central part of the known world back then, it is normal to have neighboring peoples offer their services.

[keravnos]

Besides about some 120 years prior to the start of EB, A LOT (10.000) or so hoplites went through Armenia...Some must have liked it so they sent back their grandsons to be mercs there again!

[The Persian Cataphract]

Not only that, but the warfare form of the classical hoplites, the famed Argos-phalanx proliferated itself especially in this area, and was further facilitated by the Cardaces reforms of the Achaemenids; We hear of armoured Armenian infantry at Gaugamela. Considering that in spite of significant differences in equipment, even Iranian light infantry fought in tightly clustered formations, presenting a shield-wall to the front, giving some protection to the archers to the rear; In some weird twist this lighter infantry combined tactics of both a shield-wall, perhaps not too different from the Argos-phalanx, but also long-ranged missile support.

Certainly, with such a prominence in Greek mercenaries and genuine Achaemenid effort in bringing about the Persian hoplite, and previous successful tactical combinations, it's not all too weird to find classical hoplites in Armenia, not by a long shot. Some Persian-dominated cities remained Greek throughout, including Greek settlements around Colchis, Trebizond, Sinope, but perhaps unexpectedly the Bosphorus in the Pontic Steppes. As Artavazd points out, there is a reason why Armenia was such a successful buffer state; It practically has a chokehold between what commonly is known as the Iranian world to the East, and the Greek world to the West. This would only get stronger throughout the age of the Successors and live on to the Arsacid dynasty of Armenia, until Christianity was formally adopted; Prior to these dynastic changes, the hoplite slowly declined in favour of the legion'esque unit; This has further lead to an absolutely unique infantry tradition among Armenians.

[Karo]

this is the first time I got a little economie running without building mines in almost all of my cities. I got mines build in two of them and the rest of the profits comes from taxes. But planning to build mines in the rest of the cities after I massacre a few cities. That would give me the right amount of money :laugh4:

[Elthore]

For those having troubles with the Hayadsan campaign, i suggest using your generals bodyguards liberally. In my Pontic campaign, after initial expansion(taking 2 towns) and disbanding I found myself -20k in debt but with 5 generals. I captured about 4 weakly defended rebel towns with these 5 units while waiting to turn a profit!

[Sdragon]

Also be careful with type 4 governments, Those allied governors bodyguards are expensive to maintain. I founded 3 such governments as Pontus and bankrupted myself. I had 5 towns, one bordering Dacia before I was making money thanks to that. Compared to making some money with 3 provinces before I did such a thing.

[Brasidas]

There are very many mercenaries available, however they are only about a tenth of what was in 0.81. This is because we now use pools spanning several regions. If you recruit one unit, it will be gone from all those regions. Also respawning is drastically reduced, for instance in Italy a given unit would originally have spawned 1.3-2.x units per turn, and will now respawn in minimum 13 turns. Some units will take up to 100 turns to respawn.

Combined with the increase in cost of mercs, I don't think you'll see many all-mercenary armies. Even if one is created, there won't be any left to make another once you defeat it.

I'm appreciating very much idea of increasing cost of mercenaries. EB 1.0 is really great. Just one remark (inspired by AI balancing works of your new team member Redmeth). System of mercenary pools IMO gives too easy access to the too diverse troops. I know mercs these days were very mobile and widespread but it could be more (IMHO) playable and challenging if process of hiring troops was more active role playing job for characters.

Hypothetical (and ideal for me) situation: I'm playing as KH. I need some tough Thracians for incoming war with Macedonia. I have 1 or 2 very expensive units of thracian infantry in my homeland but I have choice and I can send my family member to Thracia with very risky mission. In Thracia I can hire for example 5-6 far cheaper units of the same type. Similalry with Creatan Archers. Several infrequent very expensive (maybe more experienced veterans) units in my area but there are cheaper fresh recruits (without exp) who are available only on Crete.

Anyhow thank You for ultimate gaming experience.

[Fearless Samnite]

type 4 governments are still good for having a single province you wish to recruit from.....+1 exp is pretty nice

[bovi]

Brasidas, what we really wanted to do was have overlapping pools, some unit specific like Balearic slingers, some pools spanning huge areas (such as the whole eastern mediterranean) combined with smaller regional pools such as Greece. Unfortunately the game doesn't support more than one pool affecting each province, and this would make the small pools unviable as the replenishment would be really tiny, and the mercs would be too immobile.

[Watchman]

IMHO wide-area merc pools kinda make sense, as warlords looking for soldiers for hire AFAIK tended to send out all kinds of agents and intermediaries to find sellswords - and conversely the mercenaries themselves, especially those already in the business, would keep an eye out for work opportunities over fairly wide areas. Converging interests, as it were, and both presumably generally had a decent idea of where and how to find the other.

[Elminster12]

IMHO wide-area merc pools kinda make sense, as warlords looking for soldiers for hire AFAIK tended to send out all kinds of agents and intermediaries to find sellswords - and conversely the mercenaries themselves, especially those already in the business, would keep an eye out for work opportunities over fairly wide areas. Converging interests, as it were, and both presumably generally had a decent idea of where and how to find the other.
That's how I always saw it. TC, imagine you're a Greek mercenary from Trapezous. Are you going to sit around and only serve whoever comes to the area around the city, or are you going to keep an eye out for employment opportunities farther away? On the flip side...if you're an Armenian arkah, are you only going to hire mercs from Haikan lands, or are you going to be interested in hiring those Greeks who live a few weeks away? I can't imagine it would take more than a season to travel from Trapezous to Armavir even in ancient times. Besides...you need to have money to hire mercs in the first place, and money is especially tight early, when they'd be most useful to you...

[Watchman]

Or put this way, I'm pretty sure Cyrus the Younger didn't personally turn up in Greece to hire Xenophon and the Ten Thousand for his would-be coup. ~;)

[Brasidas]

Or put this way, I'm pretty sure Cyrus the Younger didn't personally turn up in Greece to hire Xenophon and the Ten Thousand for his would-be coup. ~;)

Good point Watchman (maybe a bit exaggerated ;) But we know that mercenaries were very unreliable, hence necessity of sending guarantor of the deal.

So, regardless of my visions (cruelly mitigated by %&*$% hardcoding ;) , I'm gradually bringing over to idea of large pools.