BI.exe facts and myths - ultimate answer

[Brasidas]

Once again EB with BI.exe. There are many peans about: smarter, more agressive AI, naval invasions etc. I experienced this phenomenon myself during stacks of campaigns on EB, RTR, and other mods.

Notwithstanding EB Team chose rometw.exe. So, please give us complete list of disadvantages of BI.exe variant and please name domains where "vanilla" EB 1.0 is better than his apparently more intelligent BI-zed counterpart.

I hope this would be ultimate help for EB fans in this still enigmatic matter.

[Bootsiuv]

Hmmm...lots of big words. :yes:

I've heard 1.0 is fairly unstable as of right now, but I'm sure someone in the community will work out the kinks.

Ferromancer created an excellent EB with BI mini-mod for .8x. Maybe he's planning on updating it?

[mighty_rome]

I'd definitely like to see a list of pros and cons regarding switching to BI.exe. I am considering it. My current campaign has been quiet to say the least, I want a more aggressive AI and I am hoping to get that with BI.

[mcantu]

I have never seen anyone mention any negatives to using the BI exe...other than not everyone has it

[stupac]

I've been running 1.0 on BI.exe since the beginning. I can't really compare to vanilla EB 1.0, but when I switched to BI in .81 I noticed huge differences. Some of them are annoying though, like naval invasions from random factions. When I played Romani, Quastasdastim kept landing stacks of their weak-ass levy hoplites right next to Roma, and Koinon Hellon and Epeiros kept landing troops near Taras and Arpi. Never seemed to happen like that with RTW exe ai. When I played as KH, at first the Ptolemaics were landing troops near Demetrias and Korinth and attacking Makedon, but then they attacked Kydon as well. And Rhodos got sieged frequently (probably because I kept a very small garrison there) by Makedons and Seleukids. I didn't really notice much difference with land locked factions though. Hope that helps.

[Megalos]

This has been debated so many times it's getting boring.

It's a matter of personal preferance. EB has been made for RTW not BI. If you want to rum it on BI it's pretty simple:

Start up normal RTW. Pick a campaign you want, load it, save it, exit.

Copy your EB.exe, and paste. Right click copied .exe, go to properties and paste this into the target line ( "C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-BI.exe" ), hit apply and close window.



Double click your new .exe and voila EB on BI. Simply load your campaign. This is all you have to do...no copying folders into other folders etc.


There are no disadvatages in using EB on BI.


Mega

[Ravenfeeder]

Simply changing the short-cut no longer works with EB 1.0, however there are plenty of threads around showing how to do it.

I can't really find any negatives. Maybe this one:
The Kart-Hadast always spam smallish stacks against Capua by sea. This is their main avenue of attack against Roma and gets predictable and annoying.

(Once the stacks start being of elite pikemen and assault infantry it can get worrying too. Especially if accompanied by a FM who then hires all the local mercenaries turning it into a hefty stack).

[Bonny]

Notwithstanding EB Team chose rometw.exe. So, please give us complete list of disadvantages of BI.exe variant and please name domains where "vanilla" EB 1.0 is better than his apparently more intelligent BI-zed counterpart.

There is one major disadavantage: not all players have bi, this includes several EB members. If we had made the game for bi, all players who don't own it would not be able to play EB. But as it is now it is possible, with very little modding, to play EB with the bi.exe but afaik this would not work the other way round.



I've heard 1.0 is fairly unstable as of right now, but I'm sure someone in the community will work out the kinks.

then you must have heard something wrong.

[Megalos]

Simply changing the short-cut no longer works with EB 1.0, however there are plenty of threads around showing how to do it.




Myth.


I did it exactly the way I explained it.


Mega

[brymht]

I'm running EB 1.0 with BI right now. The only disadvantage I see is not knowing which units to give shield wall or shieldtrom :) Any historical exterts with EB can feel free to comment in the unofficial mods section :)

[Redmeth]

I'm running EB 1.0 with BI right now. The only disadvantage I see is not knowing which units to give shield wall or shieldtrom :) Any historical exterts with EB can feel free to comment in the unofficial mods section :)

You'll really unbalance the ones you give shield_wall to try it out with some hoplites and then try and charge them, even the Haploi will be still as a rock.

In order for shiel_wall to work properly with EB I think you'd need to also tweak the defense level of the units and their mass also.

Units in EB had their statistics wrote in order to try and simulate a shield wall without actually using BI's function. (They might look better with BI but you'll create unbalance).

[Ravenfeeder]

Myth.


I did it exactly the way I explained it.


Mega

Sorry. I should have said it no longer works for new campaigns. I haven't tried your solution as I've implemented the one one I've posted elsewhere, which works fine.

[Tellos Athenaios]

You'll really unbalance the ones you give shield_wall to try it out with some hoplites and then try and charge them, even the Haploi will be still as a rock.

In order for shiel_wall to work properly with EB I think you'd need to also tweak the defense level of the units and their mass also.

Units in EB had their statistics wrote in order to try and simulate a shield wall without actually using BI's function. (They might look better with BI but you'll create unbalance).

And I witnessed one thing which, came really really close to the BI shieldwall in ordinary RTW... performed by the AI! I '100% love' the Persian Hoplites; even though they are a rip off (litterally) because of that. Must see if the AS can recruit them too... :brood:

[Bootsiuv]

then you must have heard something wrong.

My mistake. I meant 1.0 with BI.exe is unstable right now. After researching it a little further, it doesn't seem as bad as some people were saying right when 1.0 came out.

Considering I'm starting a succession game in 1.0 and the context of my post....it should have been fairly obvious that was a mistake.

[mlc82]

Does BI actually add anything major besides random AI sea invasions? Smarter AI at all or anything? I'm playing with it currently, thought the sea invasions were cool when I was at war with Epeiros (I'm Romani), but am really getting tired of multiple factions landing 2 unit armies on my shores to "besiege" my cities (must be like the Monthy Python and the Holy Grail siege scene) and then be spanked by me. Thinking of restarting without BI but I'm not sure if it adds anything I'd miss or not.

[Megalos]

Does BI actually add anything major besides random AI sea invasions? Smarter AI at all or anything? I'm playing with it currently, thought the sea invasions were cool when I was at war with Epeiros (I'm Romani), but am really getting tired of multiple factions landing 2 unit armies on my shores to "besiege" my cities (must be like the Monthy Python and the Holy Grail siege scene) and then be spanked by me. Thinking of restarting without BI but I'm not sure if it adds anything I'd miss or not.



That's ok to be annoyed about the small stacks. I have recently stopped playing my Romani campaign on the previous version of EB and some interesting things happened...


...I had been coasting for awhile after capturing the italian pen and sciliy, the only battles I was getting were against the rebels and the small sea invasions from Carthage and I was debating where to invade next.

I was currently at war with carthage and both the gallic factions around this time (about 245 BC) and I was easily defending my territories.

Anyway, I decided on N Africa as I was getting annoyed with the small raiding parties against Roma and Capua, so I stared preparing my invasion force and sending them off to sicily in readiness. As I was doing this, in about the space 0f ten turns I noticed that Carthage had allied herself to the Koinon Hellenon and the Aedui tribe...no sweat, they pose no threat, right?...

...anyhow, I had just finished the last touches to the two legions I was gonna send to N Africa, when all of a sudden, two full Aedui stacks come through the north-east passage of the Alps and lay siege to my city(they didn't even have a close by city to that passage). I beat the two stacks but my northern army is in tatters (bloody naked men!), so I have to send one of my legions from sicily down there to sure up the gaps as many smaller stacks are now coming through the alpine pass, and besieging my forts in the other passes and I can't train enough men quickly enough to repel them effectively.

Then all of a sudden a stack and a half of Koinon hellenon hoplites and light cav + a gen invade the south, besieging Taras. I have no choice but to send my other legion from sicily to go face them down before they sack the city.


As soon as my Legion steps off my ships back in Italy, the carthies land 3 full stacks on sicily, two of which siege Lillibeo, the other (with 2 units of elephants) heads straight to Syracouse. Within 3 turns I had lost 2 cities on Sicily and a third was undersiege.


I was now fighting a defensive war on all fronts (even the Arverni decided to start attacking me) and my coffers were empty!To survive I had to resort to destroying non-essential buildings in my cities, and sending a small raiding force into Greece to sack cities that weren't defended well.


All in all it was an absolute nightmare! The gauls were tying me up with small forces, keeping me from sending re-inforcements to the south, Greece was sending half stacks against Taras, and Carthage was dropping off stack after stack on sicily then moving toward regium.

In the end, the only way I could get around it was to build my own navy, and hunt the carthie fleets down, which freed up lots of men and enabled me to retake sicily ans eventually invade NA.




Now I don't know if it was coincidence or what, but never ever have I had it that hard on normal RTW.


Mega

[Bootsiuv]

Sounds like an awesomely fun time. :yes:

Apparently BI does have some benefits.

[mlc82]

That's ok to be annoyed about the small stacks. I have recently stopped playing my Romani campaign on the previous version of EB and some interesting things happened...


...I had been coasting for awhile after capturing the italian pen and sciliy, the only battles I was getting were against the rebels and the small sea invasions from Carthage and I was debating where to invade next.

I was currently at war with carthage and both the gallic factions around this time (about 245 BC) and I was easily defending my territories.

Anyway, I decided on N Africa as I was getting annoyed with the small raiding parties against Roma and Capua, so I stared preparing my invasion force and sending them off to sicily in readiness. As I was doing this, in about the space 0f ten turns I noticed that Carthage had allied herself to the Koinon Hellenon and the Aedui tribe...no sweat, they pose no threat, right?...

...anyhow, I had just finished the last touches to the two legions I was gonna send to N Africa, when all of a sudden, two full Aedui stacks come through the north-east passage of the Alps and lay siege to my city(they didn't even have a close by city to that passage). I beat the two stacks but my northern army is in tatters (bloody naked men!), so I have to send one of my legions from sicily down there to sure up the gaps as many smaller stacks are now coming through the alpine pass, and besieging my forts in the other passes and I can't train enough men quickly enough to repel them effectively.

Then all of a sudden a stack and a half of Koinon hellenon hoplites and light cav + a gen invade the south, besieging Taras. I have no choice but to send my other legion from sicily to go face them down before they sack the city.


As soon as my Legion steps off my ships back in Italy, the carthies land 3 full stacks on sicily, two of which siege Lillibeo, the other (with 2 units of elephants) heads straight to Syracouse. Within 3 turns I had lost 2 cities on Sicily and a third was undersiege.


I was now fighting a defensive war on all fronts (even the Arverni decided to start attacking me) and my coffers were empty!To survive I had to resort to destroying non-essential buildings in my cities, and sending a small raiding force into Greece to sack cities that weren't defended well.


All in all it was an absolute nightmare! The gauls were tying me up with small forces, keeping me from sending re-inforcements to the south, Greece was sending half stacks against Taras, and Carthage was dropping off stack after stack on sicily then moving toward regium.

In the end, the only way I could get around it was to build my own navy, and hunt the carthie fleets down, which freed up lots of men and enabled me to retake sicily ans eventually invade NA.




Now I don't know if it was coincidence or what, but never ever have I had it that hard on normal RTW.


Mega


Now THAT sounds like fun! I'll stick with BI after all.

The random AI faction attacks are giving me flashbacks of suffering through trying to play vanilla Medieval 2 before some of the better mods came out though :(

Might be time for an early Punic War to end all Punic Wars, to get rid of those annoying 2 unit Carthaginian seaborne invaders.

[Spoofa]

I've been running 1.0 on BI.exe since the beginning. I can't really compare to vanilla EB 1.0, but when I switched to BI in .81 I noticed huge differences. Some of them are annoying though, like naval invasions from random factions. When I played Romani, Quastasdastim kept landing stacks of their weak-ass levy hoplites right next to Roma, and Koinon Hellon and Epeiros kept landing troops near Taras and Arpi. Never seemed to happen like that with RTW exe ai. When I played as KH, at first the Ptolemaics were landing troops near Demetrias and Korinth and attacking Makedon, but then they attacked Kydon as well. And Rhodos got sieged frequently (probably because I kept a very small garrison there) by Makedons and Seleukids. I didn't really notice much difference with land locked factions though. Hope that helps.


Well the Ptolomies did have a major influence in Greece and Kydonia and Rhodos, so even though I've experienced this myself, I see it as just an attempt for them to gain control of a major trading center (Rhodos/Kydonia, even though its not a major trading center, its a good staging point for invasions of greece)

[LordCurlyton]

Having played with BI on EB extensively I can say that the stacks usually start small but tend to get bigger over time. So if they start with piddly 2-unit stacks it will eventually get to half stacks then full stacks. I found the AI never sends less than what it had before if it is able. However, if it gets tied up in multiple wars you might just be experiencing all it can throw at you, in which case I'd go fro the jugular. I've seen both happen before. And the naval invasions are a real plus, especially when you look at the map and see powers taking over islands you wouldn't expect (Carthage or Ptolies taking Crete, AS taking Rhodes, Romans going apes*** on Carthie-owned islands). Yes, they generally won't change the invasion point much, though if they get big gains somewhere else it can happen. The AI IS more aggressive, but also generally more respectful of peace and alliances, if you play your cards right (keeping large border garrisons and minor tribute). All in all, I like BI-exe a lot, but I agree with the team that it should be our decision to use it or not and not force people to have to own BI.

[Dooz]

Having played with BI on EB extensively I can say that the stacks usually start small but tend to get bigger over time. So if they start with piddly 2-unit stacks it will eventually get to half stacks then full stacks. I found the AI never sends less than what it had before if it is able. However, if it gets tied up in multiple wars you might just be experiencing all it can throw at you, in which case I'd go fro the jugular. I've seen both happen before. And the naval invasions are a real plus, especially when you look at the map and see powers taking over islands you wouldn't expect (Carthage or Ptolies taking Crete, AS taking Rhodes, Romans going apes*** on Carthie-owned islands). Yes, they generally won't change the invasion point much, though if they get big gains somewhere else it can happen. The AI IS more aggressive, but also generally more respectful of peace and alliances, if you play your cards right (keeping large border garrisons and minor tribute). All in all, I like BI-exe a lot, but I agree with the team that it should be our decision to use it or not and not force people to have to own BI.

That's for sure. I'm seeing awesome invasions every time I toggle_fow every few years and look around. Great armies with varied units and interesting choices of attack. Check it out!

https://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7618/biseainvasionexamplelu9.jpg

The Greek invasion of Africa has begun!

[konny]

The Kart-Hadast always spam smallish stacks against Capua by sea. This is their main avenue of attack against Roma and gets predictable and annoying.


Yes, that's about the main reason why I play my first EB 1.0 Roman Campaign with the RTW-exe. In the last one with EB 0.8 and BI-exe I had permanent landings of 3-units-armies (always with the exact composition of 2x light spearmen and 1x heavy spearmen) on Sicily even though I was at peace with Karthago.

I always attacked and destroyed them (stupid AI always sends the ship away after disembarging), Karthago always made peace the very next turn - only to send the next of these "armies" two or three turns later.


I also have seen larger invasions - but to what effect!?! Karthago landed an 3/4 stack including one family member, elephants and sacred band on Crete but made peace with KH the next turn and left that army there for the rest of the game.

In the last Pontic campaign there were a large army from Makedonia and one from AS landing on Rhodos. Both sieged the town for one turn, made peace with KH and renewed the siege two turns later, to make peace again in the next turn etc. That went on until the Ptolemaians landed the third! hostile army on that island, what caused some beating around with the other two. When I finally landed there, the town was Makedon and there were still the remains of the Egypt army outside, starting an one-turn-siege every third or so turn.



Bottom line: Yes, you have more naval invasions with BI-exe. And No, the AI still has no idea on how to use its navy.

[LordCurlyton]

Hardly. That's usually the case of a diplomat working its magic. To cure that, send you assassins on some search and destroy missions. It took a bit of hunting but after a while I finally managed to kill the right diplomats such that things like Rhodes and Crete got taken over by various and sundry powers. Though such vigilance can be annoying as the AI will spam diplomats every now and then, making it quite a b**** to kepp them away from the appropriate factions.