one definite unit?

[Hooahguy]

is there one definite unit which can beat HA, specifically persian armored HA? ive tried to find them as baktria against pahlava, but i always lose so many men... its a shame...... ~:( ~:mecry:

[jhhowell]

is there one definite unit which can beat HA, specifically persian armored HA? ive tried to find them as baktria against pahlava, but i always lose so many men... its a shame...... ~:( ~:mecry:

Coming at it from the other perspective (my Hayasdan should soon be able to produce a few armored HA), I don't think there's an easy single-unit counter to armored HA. Those are very nice, high-end, expensive units. Hopefully the AI isn't so flush with cash that you're facing lots of them at once...

What I would worry about in running such units is primarily slingers, especially ones with a few chevrons of experience. Masses of quality (Persian or Mardian) archers could do damage too, and will devastate the unarmored flavors of HA. Ideally, arrange units such that the armored HA are firing on something well armored (phalanx, cataphracts, etc.) while your own missile units return fire unmolested. That's what I'd call the ERE solution, from playing BI back in the day. ~:) The other option is running them down with a decent cavalry unit (or 2-3 not so decent cav). I believe Baktrioi Hippeis, if I have the name right, would be a solid choice - pretty decent armor on those guys as I recall. Unlike the historical kind, I don't think RTW HA can fire Parthian shots so at minimum you're just removing one cavalry unit from each army, and eventually the pursuer will catch up. That would be the WRE solution, in BI terms.

The ideal solution is to only fight them within a city. Revenge of the spearmen! :smash: Sadly sometimes you do have to deal with the buggers on the open field, too.

[Hooahguy]

ya- all my battles against the persians were town assaults.... tnx for the tips! i personally use the persian archer spearmen, b/c they have spears for fending off cavalry and bows for HA.

[TWFanatic]

Slingers. Long range, low arc, ap...these traits make them good against all cavalry but HA in particular. The long range ensures u can get a few rounds off before they go into canta circle, and low arc makes them better against HA in canta circle.

Good luck.:smash:

[Landwalker]

is there one definite unit which can beat HA, specifically persian armored HA? ive tried to find them as baktria against pahlava, but i always lose so many men... its a shame...... ~:( ~:mecry:

To echo TWFanatic, I'd recommend slingers. Longer range (definitely longer then horse archers), effective against armor (so deal with the pesky cataphract archers element), cheap (Armored HAs definitely are not), and plentiful. That way, the rest of your army can deal with more important things.

If you're set against slingers, though, you can give this a try: Get behind them with some light cavalry, then charge in and pin them down (the light cavalry should be able to catch them). Since you charged from behind, they'll be relatively near your main line, so after the light cavalry pin them down you can rush in with a unit of spearmen and really go at them.

Cheers.

[NeoSpartan]

Fellas I've done slingers VS Armored HA and regular HA in MP.... They did some damage but thier lack of armor really F*ed them up as the missile vs missile battle prolonged.

My best bet... Have an army with slingers, archers, heavy armored infantry (Pez tend to do really good, just don't let them get hit from behind), merc HA, some heavy cavarly (although.... unless its cataphracts the constant barage of arrows will mess them up... so be careful).

There is no 1 unit to beat HA. You gotta play around with your army composition, your tactics, force the enemy to engage (or entise him to engage) whatever. They are Tough mofo's to deal with, and taking light infantry with you is a waste of a unit slot they will just die.

One tip is to move your entire army as a single coheseve unit. IF you separate an element of ur army is likely to be singled out, shot at from all angles, sorrounded and charged.

Against the AI I was able to deal with an HA, skermisher and archer army with a prodominantly phalanx army. But it was a LONG battle. Little by little the AI had to attack since it was out of missiles, I never exposed any flanks. The second battle, was a bridge battle, I let the HA cross and I made a horse shoe formation. Little by little and tightened the hourse shoe, using my cavarly to keep anyone from escaping. There was nowere to run, the only option was to fight hand to hand. :smash:

good luck against HA!

[V.T. Marvin]

Well I have now a Pahlavan campaign (EB 1.0+BI, VH campaign/M battles) underway and I have to admit that I have a HUGE troubles with the Sakae:
- AI is producing a half stack of Early Saka nobles every few turns:skull:
- these guys are fairly armoured and have incredibly powerful bows+long range:skull: :skull:
on the other hand
- I am poor and my army besides being small in numbers is composed of unarmoured foot archers, who - having a shorter range - are just massacred without inflicting much damage on the armoured Saka beasts, and light horse archers, who fall as easy pray as well - having the same range as Sakae they still lack the armour.:thumbsdown:
- Only effective unit is thus the Pahlavan bodyguard and the Dahae Noble Cavalry (very expensive at the beginning of the campaign).:sweatdrop:

Example: I have lost Marakanda to Saka Rauka and have it liberated only after several (actually five!:smg: ) battles (all in one turn as the besieged Sakae again and again tried to break out) ending in draw. I did not dare to enter the town only to massacred by Saka firepower, Sakae did not dare to leave the walls being afraid of encirclement by my horsemen. It was a war of attrition at its heights! Finally this horrible AI turn ended and I was able to hire mercenary theureporoi and stab those beasts to death. Now I am on punishing expedition to Chach (sp.?), retribution will fall on them soon.....:horn:

Conclusion: In open field you can defeat armoured horsearchers by having them encircled by several of your units (I recommend to withdraw one of them and out of the fight and charge again, in order to capitalize on the charge bonus) and dealt with in close hand-to-hand fight.:charge:
Preferred way is to besiege them in a city, thus depriving them of their mobility and rapidly close in with spear-wielding infantry - theureporoi is the most versatile unit in the mercenary roster in the Far East early on).
Prolonged exchange of bow shots (no matter if Armoured HA vs. foot archer or Armoured HA vs. HA) is totally pointless. (Well, I will see if this will not be feasible tactics when I will gain access to Persian Heavy Archers).

All in all - it is a fantastic campaign. Being in war with all my neighbour (Saka Rauka, Bactria nad AS) and with extremely modest budget I really enjoy the game. Never before, even in my Pontic 0.81 campaign, I have been so overwhelmed by intense emotions while playing a game - fear and excitement, hope and depression, joy when victory is snatched from the jaws of defeat, pain when FM falls in battle... EB 1.0 rules! MANY THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE BEEN AND STILL ARE CONTRIBUTING TO IT.:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Subedei]

More a question then an answer: Would 2-3 units of experienced Ballista be a choice? Maybe protected by a couple of infantry units? Anyone tried that?

[Pharnakes]

Good agisnt ai, be very careful in mp.

EDIT: ohh and exp makes no diference, it only increases melee attack of the crew.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

HA were always a pain for anyone facing them. As Baktria, I would probably try some Archer Spearmen and Eastern Slingers... Use them, and be ready to lose several men. That's the spirit of facing HA's: never give up.

I think the best way to counter HA's is testudo. Either put two Cohortes Reformatae together, each of them covering the backs of the others so that little rear vulnerability in the Testudo doesn't get exploited. This will force the Saka Nobles to charge at your formation, when your legionaries will win the day with their melee skills and numbers.

[antisocialmunky]

1) A butt load of missile units protected by spear units if you're an infantry heavy faction.
2) More/Better HA if you're a HA faction.

[mAIOR]

With the pahlava I advise you to use mercs to absorb missiles.
Later you can field armies invuknerable to arrows...


Cheers...

[econ21]

EDIT: ohh and exp makes no diference, it only increases melee attack of the crew.

Is that specific to artillery? Because I was pretty sure experience raised the missile effectiveness of slingers (hence the discussions about them becoming too powerful over the course of the game).

[QwertyMIDX]

Is that specific to artillery? Because I was pretty sure experience raised the missile effectiveness of slingers (hence the discussions about them becoming too powerful over the course of the game).

I think it's specific to troops that use 'siege' weapon designations.

[bovi]

Or more precisely, siege_missile.