Strategic Idea -- not tactical -- want feedback

[Hiroshi-O'Duff]

I haven't tried this before, since I'm basically too busy with work to play as much as I'd like, but I wonder if any of you have tried this.

Often, the AI (and humans, as well) has a decent mass of forces along a defensive wall. If you can break through that wall, then this strategy comes into play.

Rather than bother defending the land you just took, just keep attacking deeper and deeper into the enemy's heart of lands. If you have Shinobi to keep revolts from occurring, great, but won't you be able to decimate a lot of smaller armies off if you just keep running full speed?

The concerns I have about this are:
1) if you leave the province undefended, there will be rebellion - that essentially creates units for FREE, doesn't it?
2) You leave your initial wall somewhat less defended

What else is wrong with this idea? I really doubt it would work, but is there some other positive aspect for this kind of strat?

Duffer

[Vanya]

Ha ha! The raid strategy! Works nicely UNLESS you really need the enemy's infrastructure to close the tech gap. So, if you have a few ordinary dojos, and you raid old man Hojo's legendary lands, then you will inevitably suffer catastrophic losses, and still leave Hojo with some reduced dojos and improvements, only to find your own capability has not been enhanced at all. I find this strat best if I send a rabble army to do the dirty work (ie, expendable), so that when they are eventually rounded up and killed off, I wont miss them a bit. Ashigaru are great for this. And this is a GREAT tactic to remove the impending threat of GEISHAS: move it, destroy the stinkin' geisha house, and abandon the province if you deem you cant hold on to it.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[EasyCo]

Yes,it does...for awhile.I like to raiding from the "BUG PORT".I like it expert or Hard.It doesnt work for the Horde Hojo. Because you got your Citadel by than.Hes alright then. But you can raiding the other clans i.e. Mori and Shimazu. Bacause the Koku its bad.

EasyCo

[This message has been edited by EasyCo (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Bodhiharma]

Hmmm,

I've never tried it, but being the non-gambler I am, I think I'd feel safer moving slowly across the entire map.

From reading many strat ideas, I have noticed that the general consensus is that what you need to do is build up your army and then sweep right across the map, don't just focus in on one army, attack all armies, but keep yourself well defended, and hold onto new provinces.

But I'm sure a more experienced player would be able to work out your strategy! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Honour And Pride
--Bodhiharma Daidoji

[BanzaiZAP]

I like using that tactic, and I think it will be more effective against human player than AI, simply because the AI gets to cheat with its koku.

Against a human, knocking down a few of their dojos can really hurt their production base. Also, since they lost control for part of that season, they will not get the harvest from that province! If your army has rampaged through and spends Autumn in the enemy's prime farmlands, it hurts not only production, but their wallet as well! Most people really take that kind of thing personally. :grin:

Unfortunately, people noticed that the AI (at harder levels) can deficit-spend on troops, so hurting their bank-book is not as effective. Now that we're getting the strategy-side in multiplayer, we can start using that tactic more.

There is definitely the problem of rebellion. It is precisely free troops! Usually, though, the AI will move right in behind you, so there is not enough time for a rebellion to form. I've let an enemy take over my land, simply to get a rebellion in my favor! Works well when playing as Shimazu, to let the mainland province get taken by Mori. Often, they will revolt in your name! Unfortunately, they will be majority ashigaru, so don't expect quality troops from a rebellion. The only exception is a religious rebellion, which often involve monks.

As for fewer troops defending, yes that's a problem, which is why this tatic doesn't happen too often. You need to see a lucky hole in his defense, and happen to have a small army available in the right place at the right time. More often than not, that army will be sacrificed, but I have managed to stage a few spectacular rescues. A few fragments of archers, yari and monks had holed up in a castle, and my relief army attacks from behind to get the out. Fun stuff, and it enhances the RPG feel of the individual generals. That tiny army had the monks as the general, and since they had taken over a number of poorly-defended provinces, that general had made it up to rank 5!!!! I was glad to rescue him, and gave hime a huge army to play with! But I digress. My point was that by marauding his lands, he's more interested in kicking you out of his territory, rather than staging an invasion of his own. Humans might be more unpredictable, though! MP-strat game, here we come!

-- B)

[solypsist]

The "full throttle invasion" is the perfect way to do it in the event you're playing as the Ronin.
Otherwise, everyone elses comments are very good, the Rebellion one is especially right on. In my opinion, it isn't a very good idea to not hold a province unless your actual goal (the neighboring, lightly guarded province with the citadel) would be worth losing the first province you fought for. Consider what you have to gain/lose over what the AI has to.

[The Bear]

I also use this tactic with the goal to slowdown the clans that are getting to big. I use an expendable type army send it by the port with some shinobis, and push on or stay in the province, all depending of the situation. By using the port, i don't hurt my defensive wall. Shinobis are to help stop rebellions or start one.

I imagine with the mongol expansion pack, we will be using more of this type of strategy, when playing as the mongols or against a human opponent in a campain

[Che]

I don't like it. Unless you're in control of the game, you won't be able to garrison your conquests well, and then you'll be giving the enemy plenty of free troops through rebellions. I suppose having enough shinobi would make it worth it, but the advantages aren't that great, and if your army gets caught it's dead.

[edRonin]

I use this tactic all the time to fight the horde. I usually go in with two full stregnth armies and reak havok. I find I am usually doing this against Hojo so I work my way over to Dewa and hold that and other high koku provinces around there. I then reinforce those troops with fresh troops and start a two front war against Hojo. The additional koku fuels my war machine and the loss of dojos hurts his troop production.

Most or all of the provinces you raid have castles. So when you leave the Hojo troops in the castle retake the province and there is no rebellion.

This is essentially how you beat the horde. Since the AI can cheat the only way to slow his troop production is to destroy dojos. Plus you need the high koku provinces to keep pumping out troops and upgrade your dojos.

[BanzaiZAP]

I tried expanding on this the other night, with great results.

You can do the reverse of the Port Bug! I had a goodly army form up in Shinano, and went rampaging up through Sado, the island farthest North, then down into Dewa. Knocked down some dojos as I went through. In Mutsu, he (Hojo) was building up a massive force to wipe out my attackers, so I just used his port in Dewa to pull back into my territory! Did some damage, and got my whole army out safely! The AI retook their provinces immediately, so there was never any rebellion. Add in a few reinforcements to my heric army, lather, rinse and repeat! I got another no-name general up from rank 0 to rank 5 again, just by charging him in, then porting to safety, several times in a row. He lost tons of troops, weakened his borders by sending troops into his interior, and his main farmlands were beaten back into the Stone Age! Collapse of one Hojo Horde. I did this about four times, and the AI NEVER let a rebellion form. This was on Normal difficulty, I do admit, but I wanted to get to that point quickly, and Hard just takes to darned long!

-- B)

[BanzaiZAP]

and Hard just takes to darned long!

-- B)


D'oh! Double post! Sorry, please remove.

[This message has been edited by BanzaiZAP (edited 04-27-2001).]