Imperator

[mighty_rome]

Well, I know it is possible to get this trait, but I sure am having a hell of a time getting it. I have had a general campaigning for 32 years, he has won over 30 battles, never lost, captured a dozen cities, conquered Carthage twice and killed a dozen family members, and he has dozens of great traits ("Leader of Men", "Conqueror" etc).

Do you have to have the "Consul" trait?
Do you have to win many Heroic victories? (most of mine are always called a "Clear victory" even if I win what seems to be a crushing victory)

I've played with the "Large" unit size for years. Is it easier to get Imperator with Huge unit size? (easier to get more Heroic victories?)

I'd just appreciate some advice from those of you who have got it. It just seems like my guy here has done everything that can be done, except get Imperator, Consul or Censor.

https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4816/caivsavrelivscottajv9.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


What more must he do? I've been wanting to get this trait for over a year.. I'd appreciate any advice.

[Zaknafien]

hm, i dont know, everyone of my generals seem to get it.. maybe youre using too many troops in your armies? full stacks should be pretty rare playing as the romans, you know.

[mighty_rome]

No, he never had more than 11 or 12 units in his army. He's been causing trouble in northern Africa with a small group of veterans for about 5 years now.

Do you play with "Large" unit sizes? (82 men in a Camillan Triarii unit) I just wonder if unit size has something to do with it. I rarely encounter armies much larger than about 500 men with "large" unit sizes... I wonder if that's an issue here.

(here's his current army)
https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5467/veteranswf9.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

[Zaknafien]

yes, I am in fact currently playing on Large.

here's the triggers for Imperator:


;------------------------------------------
;Trigger: Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Attacker
; o <Imperator> 1 Chance 100
; o <Triumphator> 1 Chance 100

Trigger Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Attacker
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and WasAttacker
and FactionType seleucid
and Trait BattlePoints > 3
and Trait Imperator < 1

Affects Imperator 1 Chance 100
Affects Triumphator 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
;Trigger: Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Defender
; o <Imperator> 1 Chance 100
; o <Triumphator> 1 Chance 100

Trigger Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Defender
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and not WasAttacker
and FactionType seleucid
and Trait BattlePoints > 3
and Trait Imperator < 1

Affects Imperator 1 Chance 100
Affects Triumphator 1 Chance 100


;------------------------------------------

[mighty_rome]

Yeah I looked at that briefly, I remember seeing it was based on "BattlePoints" but I didn't look too deeply into it. I guess I'll look around and try to figure out whats going on.

[Landwalker]

Faction Type Seleucid?

And I would assume that "BattlePoints" is a measurement of how many battles the general has fought (the whole Green-Blooded-Veteran-etc. scale), but I don't know what I'm talking about.

Cheers.

[mighty_rome]

After skimming over the script it doesn't really seem possible that I couldn't have received the trait.. I don't get it. In fact, it seems that the norm should be what happened to you; most generals apparently should receive it after a relatively short string of victories.

As I understand it, when you win a string of victories you gain more and more battle points, so gaining the Imperator trait should be 100% guaranteed according to the code you showed. I guess I should have had a dozen guys receive it by now, but I haven't had one. I've had many generals with the "Veteran" or "Seen the Elephant" trait and who have never lost a battle.

Something else must be going on here. I'd like to see what's been happening to other people playing as Romani.

[mighty_rome]

Faction Type Seleucid?


Faction type seleucid is used for the Romani in EB.

[Bellum]

I don't know the syntax properly, but (and this is assuming battle points is the number of battles fought) it doesn't look to me like having 5 battle points would make any more difference than having 3. After every battle, you'd have a 1/100th chance of getting the trait.

[JeffBag]

Affects Imperator 1 Chance 100
doesn't mean 1/100 chance of getting it, should be 100% chance of getting Imperator 1 (as opposed to Imperator 0)

[Bellum]

Ah, ok...

Wait, how does having large stacks have any effect? Looking at the script, imperetor should be awarded rather often. I haven't played Romani in 1.0 yet (very odd of me) but in .8, I know I only got in the first or second 'stage' of the traits, and never got myself a triumph. I usually had the advantage in numbers (at M difficulty, some of Carthage's cities were only marginally defended).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Affects Imperator 1 Chance 100
doesn't mean 1/100 chance of getting it, should be 100% chance of getting Imperator 1 (as opposed to Imperator 0)
It means you will get Imperator, level 1, with a 100% chance.

[skuzzy]

Marcus, was that a correction or an affirmation because you repeated what JeffBag just said? :)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Marcus, was that a correction or an affirmation because you repeated what JeffBag just said? :)
It means I didn't read it thuroughly and though he asked a question. I'm too tired right now and should stop posting. :wall:

[Fearless Samnite]

in v.81 i pulled all my generals out of their cities and stacked them all together and in battle put them all in the same hex...and regrouped them...

and crushed a path all around the world with this heavy calvary

why not im paying for them, im going to put them to work!
it was pointless to enslave with no governors so i just massacred thousands

i never got Imperator.....ever
i played on vh/m ALWAYS with huge unit settings


i did get the other requirement though
never had a chance to finish the campaign... v.1 was released


so i tried this again with the old starting faction leader....he lived a long time i got lucky i finally got it before he died.....

only +3 influence IIRC .....i thought i was going to get the imperial reforms lol...haha


started another campaign with a different plan....with lots of heroic battles

IIRC 1 or 2 years or even the second turn i got imperator lol it was funny....somehow i felt shafted all my hard effort before made it easily available now

all i know was it was one heroic battle and what i do is take a small force and besige and they sally and attack me instantly....of course i'll win, i have spys to see what they have against me before i just run off to fight

so IIRC second turn, defender heroic battle

the code jargon says its random with an increased probability

[mighty_rome]

So does anyone have any ideas why I wouldn't be getting the Imperator trait?

After examining the script, and going by what Zak said about his generals, it seems to me that theres a bug in here somewhere. Winning 30+ battles in a row should give enough battlepoints, and once you have enough battlepoints its a 100% chance to get Imperator. That's how I understand it anyhow.

I could have missed something else in the script, so if I am wrong please let me know. I really do want to understand what's happening here.

[mighty_rome]

in v.81 ... i never got Imperator.....ever

I think it wasn't working right in 0.81, but it's supposed to be now (and apparently it is for everyone but me). And no, I don't have any mods. It's a clean RTW 1.5+EB 1.0 install.

[JeffBag]

I've been glancing through the traits file and it seems that it should be rather easy to get Imperator infact, but somehow that doesn't seem to work out ingame.

[bovi]

BattlePoints are reset for each battle, not cumulated.

You need to score at least 15 BattlePoints in a given battle to gain Imperator. BattlePoints awarded are:

Narrow victory = 6
Average victory = 7
Clear victory = 8
Crushing victory = 9

Even odds = 4
Hard odds = 8
Extreme odds = 12

Large battle (many guys participating on your side) = 1

As you can see, it's impossible to gain Imperator with even odds.

[JeffBag]

Question:
Ah this clears things up; but what constitutes as hard or extreme odds though?

[bovi]

0.75 and 0.2 chance, respectively

[JeffBag]

Question:
Does that mean 3:4 and 1:5 odds respectively?

[stefan25]

winning a heroic battle also has to do with heavy versus light troops . While playing saba you get heroic victories al the times because you're fighting phalanx ( heavy ) against light spearmen all the time ( the only real heavy troops you got are your generals - take like four of them in your battle line and you can kick ass ) . Even when you got like a thousand more troops you can win a heroic victory because they are light troops . You get lot's of command stars like that although they are not very important instead of traits .

[Sir-S-Of-TURBO]

Would it be possible to change the amount of battlepoints required for a triumph?

If so, where do I change it and what do I change? (A segment of the text I would be required to change aswell as the name of the .txt file involved would be lovely)

[bovi]

You could do it in the Imperator triggers, the BattlePoints trait thresholds or the triggers that award BattlePoints. Keep in mind that if you do anything about the two latter it will affect enormous amounts of other triggers.

[Sir-S-Of-TURBO]

You could do it in the Imperator triggers, the BattlePoints trait thresholds or the triggers that award BattlePoints. Keep in mind that if you do anything about the two latter it will affect enormous amounts of other triggers.

I was thinking of changeing something in the imperator triggers, but
;------------------------------------------
;Trigger: Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Attacker
; o <Imperator> 1 Chance 100
; o <Triumphator> 1 Chance 100

Trigger Imperator_granted_PostBattle_Attacker
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and WasAttacker
and FactionType seleucid
and Trait BattlePoints > 3
and Trait Imperator < 1

Affects Imperator 1 Chance 100
Affects Triumphator 1 Chance 100
;-------------------------------------------

What do I change? I know it's not 3 battlepoints you need to gain Imperator.. :dizzy2:

[Tellos Athenaios]

You'd be lowering the BattlePoints conditional if you wanted to make things easier; or raising it to make it even more difficult.
So in the first case you can lower it to two; in the latter you can raise it to 4.

[bovi]

Actually, the 3 mean 15, because the threshold for level three of BattlePoints is 15. Yes, it's confusing, I've made mistakes about it several times. Note that level two is way lower than 3.

[Sir-S-Of-TURBO]

Actually, the 3 mean 15, because the threshold for level three of BattlePoints is 15. Yes, it's confusing, I've made mistakes about it several times. Note that level two is way lower than 3.

Ah okay.

I really think it should be less than 15 by default since the kind of victory a 15 would take is comparable to the germanic victory at Teutoberg forest (dunno if that's correctly spelled). And judging from the historical events every year either the romans had a fuckload of victories like that or the requirements were abit less extreme.

Anyone who can explain this to me? :book:

[bovi]

the kind of victory a 15 would take is comparable to the germanic victory at Teutoberg forest
Um, no. Check the spoiler.

[mighty_rome]

Thanks for clearing this up bovi. I didn't realize they were reset for every battle, I thought they only reset for a draw or defeat. Now it makes sense.

I almost never have a battle that is "hard odds", so that's another reason why I never got it. I don't avoid them, I just rarely encounter an AI army with more than 5 or 6 units in it. Even Carthage itself was only garrisoned by 2 units, and 3 were in Atiqa. They do have some massive stacks but all of them are in Iberia.

Anyway, thanks for all your help everyone, now that I know what it takes maybe I can finally get that trait.