Please help me pick a civilization!

[gurakshun]

I just recently gave up my pontus campaign in disgust in roughly 230 BC because of the nonstop ptolemy and seleucid spam (and the unalluring prospect of having to go trek through the desert and totally eliminate the ptolemies, seleucids, and those damn HA factions then to greet me at the end! UGH)

...also, as i kept playing, i realized pontus' unit lineup is totally inconsistent with my tastes.

Ive been trying to read through the unit lists but i just cannot decide with the huge variety of units here (thank you EB for the huge list!) Please help me choose a people to lead to greatness based on the below

1) I love infantry, but i HATE HATE HATE phalanxes. I prefer SUPERIOR line infantry that possess high flexibility, above average strength and decent speed.

2) I dont really care for cavalry, but i do like skirmishing cav that packs at least a average punch with the melee attack. elite javcavs, i guess.

3) I love to micromanage economics and cities - i've actually developed a technique to get the faction's profitability as high as possible as quick as possible. SO economically challenged factions are OK by me

thanks for your help in advance!

[johhny-turbo]

1) Any barbarian faction, especially Sweboz tend to be infantry based. KH is also very infantry based and is more inclined to hold lines.
2)Both barbarians and KH have access to skirmisher cav
3)In this part I would say KH have the edge. In the beginning the three cities that make up your faction are almost like their independent factions that use a common treasury.

[EdwardL]

I just recently gave up my pontus campaign in disgust in roughly 230 BC because of the nonstop ptolemy and seleucid spam (and the unalluring prospect of having to go trek through the desert and totally eliminate the ptolemies, seleucids, and those damn HA factions then to greet me at the end! UGH)

...also, as i kept playing, i realized pontus' unit lineup is totally inconsistent with my tastes.

Ive been trying to read through the unit lists but i just cannot decide with the huge variety of units here (thank you EB for the huge list!) Please help me choose a people to lead to greatness based on the below

1) I love infantry, but i HATE HATE HATE phalanxes. I prefer SUPERIOR line infantry that possess high flexibility, above average strength and decent speed.

2) I dont really care for cavalry, but i do like skirmishing cav that packs at least a average punch with the melee attack. elite javcavs, i guess.

3) I love to micromanage economics and cities - i've actually developed a technique to get the faction's profitability as high as possible as quick as possible. SO economically challenged factions are OK by me

thanks for your help in advance!

Your selection to encompass all those options will be Carthage, or Kart-Hadast as it is referred. Sacred Band was formally a phalanx unit, but has since been moved to a heavy spear unit rivaling Hypaspit. On top of that you have fine cost efficient line troopers to progress through with liby spearmen. For your sword melee units you have elite african infantry. For your skirmisher cavalry needs you have the numidians for the light end, then progress to numidian nobles for heavy skirmisher cavalry.

Carthage really has one of the easiest start positions in the game. Secure Sicily and leave a garrison at the land bridge between sicily and italy to stop the romans. Once you have that in place, move to finalise your conquest of africa. Afterwards you can move your focus to conquest in italy or spain.

[The Internet]

The Romans seems like a faction for you.

[Beefy187]

Try Casse

Swords masters, champions and Casse Chariot!! (Cough Useless cough...)

Getai is also nice:2thumbsup:

[Aranor]

I would have to second the Casse nomination along with the Getai. The Getai have some brilliant shock troops along with access to excellent regional troops. Great cavalry, and some light phalanx troops, however they are just as good out of phalanx formation.

[NightStar]

I just started up as Casse and damn do they have a tough beginning, took me 5 years to get rid of 2 rebel stacks and now I can start to whittle down the rebels in neighbouring towns...

I'm aiming for attrition warfare to finally get them as I don't have the economy to raise a big enough army to take a town in one go

[Jaywalker-Jack]

Carthage is a great bet, as youve heard already its got a strong (and interesting) geographical position, plus one of the most varied unit rosters in the game. Both Spain and North Africa have excellent infantry, cavalry and skirmishers. If you go into Italy you can use Samnites and Hoplites.
Carthage also has the option of using a very good phalanx unit IF YOU WANT. There's plenty of non-phalanx heavy infantry to use instead (African elites, Samnites, Iberian assault infantry, and according to one of the above posts the sacred band - I didnt know that but anyway).

When you described what you were looking for the first thing that came to mind was the Greeks. Unlike the Vanilla faction (which was all phalanxes), KH use mainly close combat infantry, even for generals units. Cavalry is light but you have access to heavy Thessalians if you change your mind.
Just to restate whats already been said, barbarian factions in general and the Sweboz in particular would also fit the bill for you.

Finally, Lusotanna are a great faction. Some very cool looking units, particulary well suited to ambushes, so theyre an interesting faction if you like to use strategy rather than just brute force. Nice spot on the map too. Go invade Ireland!

[Thaatu]

Aedui and Arverni are probably your thing.

1.) No phalangites (except for Alpine phalangites), complete with infantry that possess high flexibility, above average strength and decent speed.

2.) Excellent light cavalry, equipped as skirmishers.

3.) Very challenging economics. Initial budget something like -8000. If you don't rush it's very intense, but I managed to pull it off.

It's just a matter of preference. An elected leader or a king?

[Hooahguy]

i would recommend Baktria, since at first you have to fight in one style of warfare, but then switch to a completely different one (from fighting nomads to the grey death), which makes things interesting.... but you dont want phalanxes (they dont use many until you get to the AS- and believe me, i dont like phalanxes much either- but its a challenge, and i like it), so i have nothing to offer, but to say that Kart-Hadast would be good for you.....

[Lysander13]

I love infantry, but i HATE HATE HATE phalanxes. I prefer SUPERIOR line infantry that possess high flexibility, above average strength and decent speed.
Hmm....this statement and description reminds me of a faction that would fit these needs exactly. What's that faction in Italy called again? :clown:

[Hooahguy]

hmmmmm..... i dont know..... hint maybe????? :shrug:
lol

[different_13]

I'll second (third?) the Carthage recommendations, the unit roster's immense. You face Ptolemies (we've traded Lepki over half a dozen times at least), Lusotanians, at least one Gaulish faction, the Romans, quite often the Greeks (they aways get Massilia or Empirion), possibly the Epirotes..

And that's just your likely enemies: the Sweboz, Macedonians, Saba and AS could come into contact with you too depending on where you expand.

[Thaatu]

Hmm....this statement and description reminds me of a faction that would fit these needs exactly. What's that faction in Italy called again? :clown:
I don't think he wants to fight against phalangites...

[QwertyMIDX]

Either of the Gallic factions are ideal for those requirements.

[Leão magno]

Romani, Sweboz or Saba

[different_13]

I don't think he wants to fight against phalangites...


Almost everyone faces phalangites.
Even if you discount the Sweboz pikemen and the alpine pikemen, either Macedonia, Epirus or the Getai tend to move north, so that's the Sweboz and Sauromatae facing pikemen.

The Lusotanians face Carthage - I know the elite Africans aren't built until level 4 or 5 MIC, but still.. (then there's mercenaries too).

Rome faces prettymuch everyone..

The Saba face Ptolemy and the AS.

Saka/Pahlava face Baktria.

The Casse would be your only safe bet (though I don't know their victory conditions).

Go Carthage, it's worth it.

[gran_guitarra]

the Celtic factions have to fave each other, the Romans, and the Sweboz.

Carthage has to face down the Romans, Gauls, Lusitanians, and occasionally skirmish with the Egyptians.

Rome has to fight everybody.

The Seleukids have to fight everyone east of Greece, and the Greek factions.

The Greek factions have to fight the other Greeks, the Romans, possibly the Gauls or Carthaginains, and the Seleukdis/Ptolemaioi.

The Easternmost factions must fight each other and the Seleukids

Lusotana has to face down Rome, Carthage, and the Gauls.

Saba has to face the Ptolemaioi and the Seleukids.




I recommend either a Celtic faction, the Romani, the Carthaginians, or the KH. None of them use phalanxes, though the Romani and the KH have to face them down. They all require decent micro of cities, and have decent skirmisher/elite cavalry (possibly except the KH, whos nobles are kind of mediocre, but still very good).

[Hooahguy]

the KH have phalanxes, just ones with short spears. u dont have to use phalanxes- most greek factions have very good spear units (called thorakitai or s/t)

[Landwalker]

Or you could always refer to the official faction unit list and decide which non-phalanx faction best suits your tastes. Based on your pro-infantry, anti-phalangite, pro-missile-cavalry position, I would probably recommend one of the Gallic factions. After them, perhaps the Casse--they're very weak in the cavalry department, but their generals are at least ranged (granted, they're also more fragile than balsa wood, but they're ranged charioteers), and they have excellent non-phalangite infantry. I'm not so familiar with the Carthaginian and Lusotannan lineups.

Cheers.

[roman]

I just recently gave up my pontus campaign in disgust in roughly 230 BC because of the nonstop ptolemy and seleucid spam (and the unalluring prospect of having to go trek through the desert and totally eliminate the ptolemies, seleucids, and those damn HA factions then to greet me at the end! UGH)

...also, as i kept playing, i realized pontus' unit lineup is totally inconsistent with my tastes.

Ive been trying to read through the unit lists but i just cannot decide with the huge variety of units here (thank you EB for the huge list!) Please help me choose a people to lead to greatness based on the below

1) I love infantry, but i HATE HATE HATE phalanxes. I prefer SUPERIOR line infantry that possess high flexibility, above average strength and decent speed.

2) I dont really care for cavalry, but i do like skirmishing cav that packs at least a average punch with the melee attack. elite javcavs, i guess.

3) I love to micromanage economics and cities - i've actually developed a technique to get the faction's profitability as high as possible as quick as possible. SO economically challenged factions are OK by me

thanks for your help in advance!
Greeks where the first faction that popped in my mind after i read your post.

But the more i think about it the more i recommend Getai. Their cavalry is so overpriced you will be forced to use light horsemen (Scithian Archers are superb for almost any role). Their infantry is outstanding any way you look at it. Fast TOTALY LETHAL and can hold their own vs "civilized" factions with no problems. Plus you have breathing rooms and can choose to expand in any direction you like.

[Hooahguy]

ya- my next campaign will be as them......
they look really cool! :charge:

[johhny-turbo]

Hmm....this statement and description reminds me of a faction that would fit these needs exactly. What's that faction in Italy called again? :clown:
But Epirus has a Hellenistic army and thus uses a lot phalanxes

[KuKulzA]

But Epirus has a Hellenistic army and thus uses a lot phalanxes

Illyrians my friend... and if you take all of Greece early on... and stay friendly with the dude in Africa and Asia... well all you got is barbarians and Romans to contend with....

[gurakshun]

UPDATE: i'm going to redo my pontus campaign. lol i was reading the previous replies and they were all over the map - rome, carthage, gauls, baktria, casse, KH, etc. hahaha

ultimately i've decided to redo my pontus campaign after looking everything over. truthfully, i love pontus' starting position (the biggest factor as to why i've chosen it) - far away from the roman/"barbarian" juggernaut, in the trade rich and resource rich asia minor.

my new armies will be ultimately 3-4 unit of chalkaspides supported by a large amount of pontic thorakitai (imitation legionnaries! i've found the answer to my demands above! I think, with all the building exp/armor/weapon upgrades, they will be one of a hell match for the romans), and galatian heavy spearman and wildmen (truly gods with all of the blacksmith/experience upgrades given!!). supplanted by bosphoran heavy archers, and using skythian/gaul heavy cavalry. this is why i truly love pontus.

my current campaign strategy will now be to consolidate ALL asia minor as quick as possible. byzantium will be taken to provide a sort of choke point, as well as stealing all the trade from the black sea. that will be the limit to my westward expansion for now.

after completely securing asia minor beyond threat of invasion, i'm gonna push the ptolemies back to the suez canal (what is the name of this strait)? over and beyond the victory objectives, i know, but i really really hate the egyptians. i would conquer the whole of egypt if it wasnt so tedious.

so far, i've captured ancyra and sinope in the first turn. nikaia and byzantion area also mine, and mazaka was recently taken after seleucid treachery. off to a good start but far from rolling in money!

[EdwardL]

grab Trapezous and Chersoneous for their mines. You can grab Pantikapaion in addition to Chersoneous to meet your Bosphoran Archer needs, at which point you can redirect to consolidating control of Asia Minor. Sarmatians dont really ever involve themselves with those 2 cities. Just make sure you wipe out the 2 rebel half-stacks in each of those provinces before departing.

[gurakshun]

grab Trapezous and Chersoneous for their mines. You can grab Pantikapaion in addition to Chersoneous to meet your Bosphoran Archer needs, at which point you can redirect to consolidating control of Asia Minor. Sarmatians dont really ever involve themselves with those 2 cities. Just make sure you wipe out the 2 rebel half-stacks in each of those provinces before departing.

Thanks for the tip!

I find that you have to get lucky to hope for mines in other provinces though, sometimes the eleutheuroi build them and sometimes they don't. i guess pantikapaion and chersoneous are the two cities on that peninsula? are they difficult to defend? Thanks

[EdwardL]

Thanks for the tip!

I find that you have to get lucky to hope for mines in other provinces though, sometimes the eleutheuroi build them and sometimes they don't. i guess pantikapaion and chersoneous are the two cities on that peninsula? are they difficult to defend? Thanks

No they arent hard to defend. As i mentioned, you just need to make sure to kill the 2 half stacks of rebels in each of those provinces. After that there really isnt much AI involvement. Load up on 1-2 akontistai as garrisons for each one and you should be good to go after that. Chersoneous and Trapezous seem to come with mines by default. You can always make the best use of spies to determine which settlements have mines already establish. Prebuilt mines are a serious factor for determining invasion routes for my campaigns.

[delablake]

The Romans seems like a faction for you.

I'd instinctively said Roma, too...

[antisocialmunky]

If you want the best infantry in the game and some of the best cavalry West of the Getai, go with the Lusti....uh....- Iberian Faction.

[different_13]

Yeah, they're awesome. That mailed cavalry is amazing (as are the similar-looking infantry).

Which is why I love Carthage - I get phalanxes, heavy spearmen AND Iberians :D

[Leão magno]

So, what civ did you chosse after all?

[Thaatu]

I still think that Aedui & Arverni were a perfect match... You should try them at some point.