New Screenshots

[Dark Phoenix]

There are some new shots at gamespot UK here is the link http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/screenindex/0,2160,2056380,00.html

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon

[Anssi Hakkinen]

http://images.gamespot.co.uk/images/pc/2001/stwmi/gal_stwmi_2_screen013.jpg

The Drill Dojo?

http://images.gamespot.co.uk/images/pc/2001/stwmi/gal_stwmi_2_screen038.jpg

Would this be the general academy, then?

http://images.gamespot.co.uk/images/pc/2001/stwmi/gal_stwmi_2_screen033.jpg

It seems that there will be "Mongol custom battles" (and MP battles) and "Normal custom battles" (and MP battles). In the former, the sides to choose from are "Mongol" and "Japanese", and the latter is just like the current one. Hmm, it seems we won't be seeing mixed armies then...

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"1. Gi: the right decision, taken with equanimity, the right attitude, the truth. When we must die, we must die. Rectitude."

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 04-21-2001).]

[Magyar Khan]

and still they dont reveal to me if the mongols could shoot backwards....

[Yoshitsune]

In Erado's Q&A recently they said Mongol archers would be just the same in the game as Japanese - they won't be able to fire backwards or on the move. However they also said at the time that you couldn't customize armour, weapon etc but they seem to have changed their minds. Well done guys!

But we need to to be able to customize more like 'discipline' and exclude certain units as an option. Things like this disturb me a little:
http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/screens/0,2160,2056380-42,00.html

In several screenshots of Mongol Cavalry like this they are shown as 'Impetuous'. MONGOL CAVALRY WAS NEVER IMPETUOUS! They had far more 'discipline' than 13th Century samurai. They were frequently ordered to feign retreat in the midst of a charge - a standard Mongol tactic.

[Puzz3D]

Anssi,

That second building is the Medical School. It heals wounded men so they can return to their unit. Check this picture that CatlineClair posted: http://members.aol.com/carlineclair/cutdown.jpg

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Thanks, Puzz3D-san - didn't recognize it at first. That could mean that the Med School (and with it unit regeneration!) will be implemented, or that they're recycling old 3D renderings... We'll see.

Yoshitsune-san, they never said they wouldn't include the option to adjust armor and weapon quality. In fact, they said (a lot earlier, around January or something) that they were going to implement it. So, they haven't changed their minds about this, and there's no indication they would do so about unit exclusion options, either.

Plus, I doubt that high discipline was a common Mongol trait just because some units in Ukraine were disciplined, but it's a small feature either way.

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"1. Gi: the right decision, taken with equanimity, the right attitude, the truth. When we must die, we must die. Rectitude."

[EasyCo]

Im so glad you have more than 11 (Hotomata?The Bodyguard)Look>> http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/screens/0,2160,2056380-57,00.html

Hes got like 32 men Oda. Seems there was more .This I like alot.

[This message has been edited by EasyCo (edited 04-22-2001).]

[Catiline]

It's probably just be Oda Nobunaga as an heir, the unit he came of age in being Heavy Cav.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[EasyCo]

Bummer!! thats right...sh#t!!

[Alastair]

Maybe I'm just not up to date, but I didn't know there was going to be an "Order of Battle" screen at the beginning of the battle. Is this new, or is it already in MP games?

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Press F1 and there it is - in any battle.

This is another undocumented feature.

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"2. Yu: bravery tinged with heroism."

[Obake]

Haven't had a chance to check out the full set of pics yet (stuck behind a filtered firewall you know) but I'm very pleased to see the customize army screen!

I have no problem whatsoever with keeping the Mongol and Japanese armies separate. Add to that the Weapons and Armor modifiers and the online play landscape is going to change dramatically! My only question would be which Japanese army will be available against the Mongols? Will it be the current troop types supplemented by the new units, or will there be two sets of Japanese units dependant on whether or not you are fighting the Mongols?

BTW, is it just me, or does the Mongol troop selection seem to be short a unit or two?

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[LordTed]

do we just put the add on with our old shogun just like a half life mod?

[Magyar Khan]

why u need more troop types when u have horsearchers and musketfodder?

[celtiberoijontychi]

the nobunaga in the screenot has rank 0, so he must be part of a historical battle.
The "order of battle"-screen is inaccurate. How does it come that h3 units have no attack bonus but armor bonus?
It either belongs to 1.12 or the bug has not been fixed

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Long live Celtiberos
Glory and Honour to Clan Celtiberos

[Puzz3D]

Obake,

There is one picture there that shows all 14 Japanese unit types on one Customize Army screen. This is for a Japanese vs Japanese custom battle because you can see that the opponent is Shimazu.

Celtiberoijontychi,

I hope that the status screen is fixed. How hard can it be to fix that?

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan takiyama ~~~

[celtiberoijontychi]

among the 14 units there isn't the ashigaru crossbowman, and i think the icon for Naginata has changed

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Long live Celtiberos
Glory and Honour to Clan Celtiberos

[candidgamera]

Puzz3D:

Hello, again. Still need to post my map ideas. How's this med school work - depleted unit goes in say at 43 men in an 80 default unit world and comes out later at 80?
Or are we just being teased here?

[celtiberoijontychi]

i think it is simpler, but more complicated at once.

U need just one med school, the school sends invisible "doctors" who automatically heal wounded troops in your whole territory.
The complication is, the AI must calculate how many wounded troops u (and all other clans) have, and how it affects every single unit in combat.

If u have a unit of 80, maybe 20 are killed and 15 wounded, so you have a fighting strength of 45 men. After healing the other 15, the unit grows to 60.

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Long live Celtiberos
Glory and Honour to Clan Celtiberos

[Puzz3D]

celtiberoijontych,

Omitting the crossbow would seem resonable. I looked through all the pictures I could find, but I can't positively identify that icon between the archer and the no-dachi. That is where the naginata is located.

candidgamera,

If that graphic is the medical school and not being used for something else, it could be a very simple implementation. Such as, understrength units have a small number of men added to them each season until reaching maximum strength. I don't know. I just try to think of the simplest way of doing something, and then, if it happens to be more involved than that, it's a pleasant surprise.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Obake]

Puzz,

Thanks for the info, but I still seem to recall there being more than 7 mongol units, regardless of Magy's confidence. Guess I'll have to check when I get home tonight. Apparantly they're going to leave us in the dark regarding what Japanese units will be available in online Japanese v. Mongol battles. Will we still have monks to use against Magyar, or will we be even more handicapped?

As far as the med school goes, I think that celtiberoijontychi is absolutely right in how it was intended to be implemented.

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[Magyar Khan]

i forgot to look but will the mongols have those silly flags on their bag? i hope not

[Tone]

Magyar: yes

[Anssi Hakkinen]

I believe Magy-sama is referring to the little sashimono carried in the back of each individual soldier. If so...

http://images.gamespot.co.uk/images/pc/2001/stwmi/gal_stwmi_2_screen007.jpg

See? No sashimono. I don't see any (on Mongols) in any other screen, either. I guess the devs are counting on the guys themselves to be distinctive enough. The unit flag is Japanese style, though, but that's minor - and keep in mind that the screenshots are probably not from a "final" version of the game, there could still be changes.

Obake-sama, I too was puzzled at first, but it seems there really are only six Mongol units. MHC, MLC, KSk, KSp, KG, TB - what else is there to have? This will probably limit Mongol tactics in proportion to the abundance of choice available with the, what, 20+ Japanese unit types, but remember that many of the Mongol units are doing double duty. (MLC function as both YC and CA, etc.)

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"2. Yu: bravery tinged with heroism."

[Tone]

Sorry I thought you meant the mons, which are the same. I was hoping they would be more authentic not Japanese ones.

[BanzaiZAP]

Obake and Annsi:
I think the confusion is that there were more units listed, and some people weren't sure which army gets to use them. Naginata Cavalry, for example, is listed, but didn't appear in the Mongol screen. NC would therefore be a japanese unit. I wonder if this means that in the XP, when playing the Mongol Campaign, the Japanese side does not get some of the other advanced units, instead of just gunpowder? No 13th century Cavalry Archers, for example? A balancing issue?

-- B)

[Obake]

Anssi and Banzai,

Not a problem, I just seemed to remember that there were more than 6 Mongol units from the "New Unit Show" over at .com

Obviously I was wrong, one of the downsides to getting old http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

It'll be interesting to see just how much choice the Japanese will get when it comes to the Mongol campaign. Online may be a whole different story though.

As to balancing efforts, I think it is far more likely that they will take out the HC than the CA's. I'm guessing that the Japanese will also lose the monks (although they were historically more involved at that time than in the Sengoku) and Ashi. There is of course also the consensus that the guns will also go bye bye.

Just my addled brain opinion!

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[Ii Naomasa]

I would agree with Obake-san with his conclusions. Although never in the large formations presented in Shogun, Cavalry Archers are more at home in 13th century Japan than 16th, as are warrior monks.

In my own personal opinion, the Naginata Cavalry should replace both the Heavy and Yari Cavalry (as the latter is more a product of at least a century of warfare later). If you take both of them out, you give the Mongol cavalry a better chance of survival. I would personally remove both yari groundpounders, as large cohesive units of spearmen were mostly unheard of at the time. This further makes Mongol horsemen more fearsome. It would also make Warrior Monks and Naginata units more a necessity than abusive.

But that's just the humble opinion of one who believes that one can both balance the sides and bring some historical realism (as best as one can, that is) with one stroke...

Also btw...the text is in english not in american http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

muahahahahahha

honour not honor
armour not armor

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif


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Honour to Clan No Fear.

Visit my resource centre at: http://terazawa.totalwar.org

[Magyar Khan]

pfhhh i am happy to see that. now they have to hange the banners to mongol ones, that makes -a bit- up for lacking the ability to run and shoot for the mongols.

[Obake]

I know that this post belongs more appropriately in the editing forum, but it is Mongol related and Magy MAY be pleased.

What no-one has mentioned yet is the map-editor screen shot. It specifically indicates 3 different map sizes that can be created. We can now all speculate on which of the 3 is representative of the current map size. My guess (hope) is that it represents the mid-sized map so that we can have those larger maps available once Tosa, Kraellin and the rest get their hands on it!

I am truly looking forward to multi-player battles where there is some TRUE room to maneuver. It just may be that there will even be room to move in a Mickesan style game! lol

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[TosaInu]

Magyar,

The game is called Shogun Totalwar not Mongol Totalwar.

[Puzz3D]

Obake,

I'm certain that one of the previews or interviews states that the maps can be up to 50% wider. That's a good size increase, and in the right direction for 4v4 play. I can't find the reference right now. I wouldn't be surprised if what we have now represents the smallest map size.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Obake]

We can always hope Puzz...we can always hope.

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[Magyar Khan]

I am sure that the developers choose Japan first some reasons like:
- marketing, Japan is big and all habe a pc
- great war period
- appealing units like samurais and ninjas (turtles)
- the boardgame gave them the idea

The Mongols are inspiring and give a nice cliffhanger to asian and europeans units.

i hope we have a big database in some years with about 100 unittypes from several timeperiods and massive 16 against 16 battles....


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http://home-4.worldonline.nl/%7Et543201/web-mongol/mongol-images/mongolsmiley.gif Quote Although the enemy moves fast, a mongol arrow will kill him at last[/QUOTE]