View Full Version : Creative Assembly cannons, are they the new muskies...
TenkiSoratoti
09-10-2002, 03:36
i could have said super ashis but cannons and muskies go together http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
hmmm they lower morale they shoot from miles away they basically destroy half ur army before you get there, hmm annoying.
your views on the killer cannon ???
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"The good fighters of the old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an oppurtunity to defeat the enemy."
MagyarKhans Cham
09-10-2002, 03:49
i know my Khan uses cannons for the fun in multi games but he aint convinced they are decisive. certainly not like the muskets were.
perhaps u can show him what u mean in a game
Dionysus9
09-10-2002, 04:12
I was worried that cannons would be too powerful before the game came out, but now I can see that they have many weaknesses.
You can charge under their fire, if you are too close they cant hit you, they can friendly-fire against their own troops, many of them have restricted turn radius, they run out of ammo, cavalry can tear up their crews, etc. etc.
I don't think they will become a standard unit like Musks did...they have their uses:
can be used to force a charge on small maps,
wreak havoc on slower troops, etc.
yes i think i lose half my men to own cannon fire on my first use... ouch!
IMO:
Cannons are not accurate against moving troops.
Cannons are less effective at close range compare to ballista/catapult.
Cannons causes fear to the troops being shot at but doesn't seem to have much effect on higher valour/morale troops.
guys wich use cannons or other siege weapons have mostly lost before the game starts.
they have some units wich kill in the beginning of the game some mens of u, but if i see it i jsut march forward and kill him easy, coz u have more fightng units and if ur close he cant se this units or kill more of his own.
no, cannon and this stuff is just for castle games, in normal field battles they near useless and just weak urself!
imo, we have a system wich reminds me on stw times, the power is by the h2h units.
koc
Agree with Kocmoc.
Cannons against Units are too weak.
Against Castles they are fine.
I like the inaccuracy as it's not to deadly'but would like to see their effectivness against units increased in the Patches to come to justify their expense.
On the other hand i sometimes use just 1 cannon in MP depending on the Map as a decision maker.
It's good for when your opponent is standing doing nothing.
Some Artillery shells usually commit him to a course of action.
Hach
Not when you're AMP and XxAMPxX http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif His ten catapult of two armies did much damage to the enemies. Maybe its the terrain, or the players. But I find catapults in MP very fun.
*KaaBoooom* http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Well i don't know about mp, but on the campaign, if you build an army of 8 cannon, 4 musks, 2 swiss pike, 2 lancers (or any other heavy infantery) you could beat almost ANY AI army. At least on normal, didn't try expert yet. I use the above army to hunt kill kings/heirs (that is if you can keep the ai from running away). Also very good army to get some nice V&V's (like skilled attacker, bonus against beeing outnumbered etc).
If the AI is on defence for sure you will win, if he's attacking, just make sure you start cannon fire immidiatly and he will go into defence. then it's just shoot till they drop. If he does charge (very rare) the musks will scare him back to defence if done right.
So they might want to improve the AI that it more easy charges if faced with so many shooters. I'm only having trouble with the pope with his full stack of heavy cavalery (but then i just use another setup).
Medieval artillery was used almost exclusively in sieges. They were not advanced enough to be used as field artillery yet. This is reflected in the game.
GAH!
In one game, Vanya sent forth a brave newbie general to fight in His name. He marched on the 2nd of a 3-line formation.
The first rock hurled from a catapult landed on his noggin and flattenned it to the point it was not good for even doup for the dogs. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
FIRST SHOT! General is dead.
GAH!
ShadesWolf
09-11-2002, 03:22
Wow - I love those cannons
Not very accurate, but they look great.
Especially with pike and shot
Meh... never hit bugger all under me, they do take out entire files when they DO occasionally hit somthing - in my campaign i always have a bombard/seige cannon in an army, and i have a couple of very special seige armies - 6 Bombards/Seige Cannons and Swiss Halberdiers - cost a lot but you can almost raze even the bigger forts http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35
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Alba Gu Bragh
[This message has been edited by Stu35 (edited 09-10-2002).]
NinjaKilla
09-11-2002, 03:31
I played around with cannon earlier today. Firing one of them long range ones accross the map resulted in two enemy kills... I havent tried them as a point blank weapon, but I doubt they're gonnna be too powerful.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Jo_Beare
09-11-2002, 05:24
How come they don't explode? I thought that this was fairly common with the early cannon. That goes for those bastard naptha throwers also. I would like to them fry themselves every so often.
I think the cannon are quite useful in river crossings on the offensive or on the defensive.
JoBeare
Stephen Hummell
09-11-2002, 05:25
I don't like cannons. They're too innacurate.
GilJaysmith
09-11-2002, 05:56
Quote Originally posted by Jo_Beare:
How come they don't explode? I thought that this was fairly common with the early cannon. That goes for those bastard naptha throwers also. I would like to them fry themselves every so often.
[/QUOTE]
The bombards and siege cannon have a reasonable chance of self-destructing after they've fired a few shots.
Nappy throwers, sadly, have no chance of accidental self-immolation. But it would be a amusing thing to add. Especially if anyone was careless enough to pick them for their general's unit.
Gil ~ CA
Bullethead
09-11-2002, 08:12
IMHO, it depends on the type of cannon. Most of them are siege artillery, truly useful only against defenses and replacing catapults and trebuchets, etc. They suck vs. troops due to low accuracy and low ROF.
However, the Serpentine is a dedicated anti-personnel weapon and it ROCKS http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif. High ROF, very good accuracy even vs. moving troops, high MV so the balls get downrange quickly and then bounce multiple times, and long range (they can shoot nearly the width of the map and with bouncing, can cover the whole map).
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-Bullethead
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria
1dread1lahll
09-11-2002, 10:47
Except as a "fun" unit their use is the mark of a "newbie", Someone who lacks the skill or confidence to march their army in an attack, But who would rather "camp" and shoot behind a wall of pikes in the cornner of the map.... The low valor cannon are a poor use of florins in the open field, however high florin cannon dont miss like their "unskilled" commrads....Making the corner camping shooter newbie a thing to detract form the game... People can still say 'NO ASHI' to cannons though... and I wont miss them. My final thought; They reduce the level of skill required to be an effective player in the game...
ShadesWolf
09-11-2002, 17:28
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I must admit I last night had loads of fun in my battle using field canon.
watching the enemy running from one side of the map to the other, to avoid them. I would be interested to understand the morale effect. If there was any on the enemy?
Major Robert Dump
09-11-2002, 19:31
I think some of you are missing the idea of cannons as an offensive weapon. It's not just a newbie or a camper thing. If I am playing a 4v4 and I am center attacker or deployed as the number 4 man I will bring at least on serpentine and deploy it as far up as I can along with the rest of my army.
At medium range a decent cannon can inflict several kills before your army makes it to the enemy.
Yes, they are a pain to protect and each cannon is one less melee unit for you, but it also gives the enemy defender something to think about as he now have a cannon in his face and will likely try to find a way to kill it.
Killing the enemy general early game is very common for me when I am in the number 4 spot attacking.
TenkiSoratoti
09-12-2002, 02:53
cannons seriously hinder my men they fall like ducks in a dog kennel, because of cannons i have to march my men at a run to avoid the cannon but this still doesnt avoid them so by the time my men have run to the enemy they are very tired thus rendered usless to the fresh enemy troops ahead.
comon guys or vets that use cannons you know better than that leave the cannons get out of your defensive hubs and fight like men.
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"The good fighters of the old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an oppurtunity to defeat the enemy."
Centurion VII
09-12-2002, 03:00
I have long been waiting on cannons to be in the TW series, I only wish they made a louder bang! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
One cannon by itself is useless on the battlefield, but two or three at most will wipe a quarter of the opposing army out before he reaches your lines. I'm not a big fan of using cannons in non-seige games, but they are very usefull if you are defending a hill or otherwise elevated area.
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GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 03:14
Cannon are deliberately somewhat inaccurate. Don't wait around; march forward in wide formations with some space inbetween, and cannonballs will often bounce right overhead.
The exception is indeed the serpentine, dangerous by design.
If you really don't like cannon, avoid games in the Late period. But remember the dreaded King-seeking ballista is available in all eras ;-)
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Gil ~ CA
quote:
MagyarKhans Cham:
jeeez what brilliant mind programmed that?
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