I liked shogun better

[Mithrandir]

I liked shogun better http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif.
MTW just lacks the feeling of STW,too many options to balance your armies,characters,castles&buildings, too many (simulair) units (without clearity how they work best), it gave me an AOE2 feeling.

This is not a commercial for the upcoming mod, but I truly think it will be better than the original game because there will be less, but much more diverse units....

Maybe I jsut need to adjust, but the stratmap ,and even the battles have kind of a chaotic feeling.( dont say "it was chaotic in the medieval times").

Not sure if I consider my 50 euro's http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif wasted or not...

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Check out the Fantasy Total War mod! (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000587.html)
Think about it :
"There is no alternative for death"-J van Baars,Book of lore.

[Kraxis]

I had to adjust myself too, and I agree the feeling is not the same.
But the game is still great! It has its own feeling.
This is what it should be, not just Shogun 2, in Europe.

Give it time, and I'm sure you will like it too.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[Mithrandir]

wait, my post didn't sound right.
I think it's a fun game, but it's pretty damn hard, and that while I'm probably the most hardcore STW campaigner here, I played countless campaigns with STW, all difficulties, all clans and each time triumphed (some times took me longer than others) but this game....it's so hard to make choices, in STW it was easy, the building descriptions and the unit decriptions were also clearer about what they did, which they enabled, and what they required. In STW, there'd be added a new unit ,3 max with each new building. Now you just start of with 4 and each building increases it with at least 2 (mostly).

The AOE2 feeling must come from the peasant,townsguard,spearman techtree, which often renders the last unit useless when a newer one comes along, which was certainly not the case in STW.

but I'll just have to play it a lot more, and learn about all the units...

ps: a question, how do you place troops in a boat for an invasion ?

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Check out the Fantasy Total War mod! (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000587.html)
Think about it :
"There is no alternative for death"-J van Baars,Book of lore.

[ToranagaSama]

Just play more Everything gets easier the more you play; and yes still room for losts of improvements.

"ps: a question, how do you place troops in a boat for an invasion ?"

You don't!

Simply create an uninterrupted chain of ships from your province with a dock to the province you wish to go to. Then just drag and drop from one province to the other.

Be careful if that province does not have a dock already built then you will not be able to move troops back/out of that province until you build a dock.

Do a search there's lots of post on this subject.

[Yoko Kono]

personally i disliked its complexities compared to shogun but now find the game a worthy successor
my only gripe is that the game feels easier even on hard, especially the battles, the computer just never seem to attack en masse instead preffering to seend units grouped in twos and threes

[JRock]

It's not the same game. It's not warlords feuding over a single country and all sharing the same units.

Besides, if you like Shogun better, or can't handle the complexity of MTW (which is one of the things I like best about it - just so many unit choices and ways to shape your army), feel free to stick with STW. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Forward Observer]

I can just hear the developers now:

"Jeeze, what do these people want? They bitch and moan that the strategic elements of the game are weak, so we give them a new game that tries to address this complaint. Now they bitch that the strategic side is too hard and complicated."


Well, everybody has their likes and dislikes. I personally always liked the tactical side of the Total War games much better than the strategic side, and that is probably the reason that I don't play pure RTS games like Age of Emptiness or Warcrap. I am also sure that Mircosoft and Blizzard are crying their eyes out, all the way to the bank.

The irony in whining about all of the new strategic options is that if you could go back a year or so ago, and tally up all of the dislikes about Shogun that were voiced on this very board, you would probably find that the single most common complaint was that the strategic, diplomatic, and resource building side of the single player game was just too simple and unsophisticated.


The developers obviously listened, and gave us a game that tries to address those complaints by including the very complex strategic turn based facit that everyone wanted. I have even heard some players say that they would like even more. At the same time they gave us options, so that if we just want to concentrate on the military activities, we can let the A. I. handle even more of this stuff than it did in STW.

I actually find myself getting more interested in the strategic side now, just because of the increased diversity,


I wasn't sure I was going to stick with Shogun when I first played it, I thought it was way too hard, and the Hojo horde always ruined the end game. But as I improved, it got easier. Eventually, I was finishing every campaign in less than 25 years, even on expert. The horde never had time to even form up. It got so easy that I had the first 5 or 6 turns completely mapped out for each clan. I had to challenge myself by trying to win with only archers and spearmen. Even the battles in Shoggy began to get a bit repetitive after about the 10th campaign or so.

Now we have a wonderful new game that appears to have most of the very improvements that were asked for with no major bugs . Also, with almost double the playable factions, 3 starting points covering 400 years, tons of diverse provinces with several maps each, and over 100 troop types, we have a more complex, richer game that can give the single player countless hours of playing enjoyment while exploring it's intricacies.

Give the game a chance, it will grow on you.


I, for one, am pleased as punch.

Kudos to the guys as Creative Assembly


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Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.



[This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 09-13-2002).]

[PSYCHO]

JRock, Forward Observer I agree completely.

Like it..love it...want some more of it!!!!!

Well done CA, thanks for listening.

Cheers

[Kocmoc]

mithrandir,

yes its pretty hard to come used to all the units, but ifu know them its very nice!

this so genial, coz u have many antiunits and can counter near every army, just with the use of the rigth units!

in mp, its a bit hard, u need to know the most units so u can say...this is possible, good....bad.... so u change untis and so on...

but i realy like it, in stw u had jsut a few possible ways, here u can use more tactics, look jsut at all this special units, its fun and very well done http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

in the beginning i compared much with stw, and thougth back at this times but its complet different and need to see it from a new point..


,,,plz forgive me my english...


koc

[Major Robert Dump]

Oh come on Mith, you've only had the game for a bit. Give it time.

My first campaign actually ran out of time (i started on early!) because i was so careful to micromanage every little detail that I wasnt focusing enough on expansion. Now I'm giving it another go as same country and I've done more in 100 years than my whole last game.

good luck.

[andrewt]

I agree about the too many units are similar thing. I'm playing the Egyptians right now and Mamluk, Ghulam and Armenian Heavy Cavalry have virtually the same stats. There is really no reason to tech to Ghulam Cavalry unless you are taking advantage of Lesser Armenia's bonus. With the English, Hobilars, Mounted Sergeants and Lithuanian Cavalry have around the same stats.

[Draksen]

Hi all!

I understand the : "STW/MI was better"

I almost feel the same. Although MTW has better options, paramaters to adjust, game possibilities,... it seems too complexe.

I think that with time I will learn how to play better, but for now it is difficult.

There is another aspect, expecially important for me : STW was Feudal Japan, MTW is not.

I am a Samurai Era Fan, and I musta admit that the "Japan" dimension of STW was my biggest motivation when playing TotalWar game(s).

Of course, this is 100%personal, and I understand that this is not very important for many players.
I miss my samurais ... snif snif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."

[MagyarKhans Cham]

perhaps u could copy the unit sprites of the japanese over the medieval ones.

[spmetla]

Actually you are still playing with Samuris. I noticed that in the unit stats sheet the parameter for and elite unit is not Elite Yes/No but Samuri Yes/No. Theres a lot Samuri Yes.

[Draksen]

Do you mean that the game (at least the battle part of the game) is "the same" ?

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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."

[Zawath]

Shogun had just too few units. Medieval has plenty. I never liked Japanse warfare, medieval European warfare its the best there is.

[Mithrandir]

I jsut find it very hard to seethe difference between all the infantry, the only thing I know is that pikes&spears are supposed to be good vs cavelry, though it's not as obvious as in STW anymore...all the other infantry, I'm at a complete loss as what to use versus what since in all my battles I didn;t see much difference between the abedisian guards, town militia, abedisian warriors or whatever else infantry there is http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif.

To the people who said I was whining, read my 2nd post and show some respect.

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Check out the Fantasy Total War mod! (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000587.html)
Think about it :
"There is no alternative for death"-J van Baars,Book of lore.

As Koc said there are many units which have their natural counters, in STW the list was short, but this time it is extremely long...time and practice will make your swords more sharp.

Don't give up before you even start exploring.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Draksen]

Just for fun, I will, this week-end, re-install ShogunMI... and see the difference... I will start a campaign...

As far as I remember, the strat map is very different (1 is Japan, the other Europe ... lol ....)but the battle parts are very similar...

more units, of course, but the basics are the same.
I will see http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."

[Lethal DRB]

I have to be honoust myself:
I very much liked STW but when MTW came and I played it for 6 months I wanted to go back to the time of STW.
But now this Came I wasnt sure I would like it or not,But now im playing this game is a Way nicer game more choices for armys nicr graphics... and ofcourse the feeling I feel tottaly with it when im playing.
This is the nicest game ever till now!

DRB