Mapping in MTW?

[Roman_Man#3]

Hello,

So, I'm looking at creating a new map for MTW, but I can't find the link for a proper tool to do it. Seems nothings going well, so can somebody please link to a complete tutorial and the tools to do it?

Thanks,
RM3

[macsen rufus]

I assume you mean a campaign map, as all you need for battlemaps is included in the game's own map editor.

Here's the best place to start: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=13155

The tools you will need include:

BIFReader
Mithel ImageConverter
LMM
A good graphics package (eg Photoshop - you need to be able to operate in both indexed and RGB modes, handle colour palettes, draw things pixel-by-pixel in some cases, define colours precisely etc etc)

... and an endless supply of patience ~D

Map making will tie into virtually every part of the game, so new maps need their own startpos files, probably their own unit_prod file, new region and faction_specific files and heroes.txt file, new names.txt file, minimap and mini_lukup and front-end lukup maps too. A LOT of different htings need to be right for a new map to work, and when something is wrong, you have very little indication of the error - only a CTD. Debugging is a nightmare, due to the complexity and lack of information.

Seriously, put aside about two months where you expect to do nothing else with your spare time. Once you get over that hump, and get used to the tools and have everything set up and running, you should be able to spit out new campaign maps.

Good luck, and if you have any specific problems, just holler :2thumbsup:

[Roman_Man#3]

Thanks for the reply. I have seen that thread, and new of a couple of the necessary tools, but I cannot seem to find any links for them. I've been thinking as well. Because the Europe map covers the areas I need, do I sitll need the tools to edit which provinces are which and where their boundaries and such are?

Thanks,
RM3

[macsen rufus]

It becomes a lot less complex if you are just making changes to the existing map. All that actually changes on the "map" part is the boundaries. These can be redrawn quite easily. If you want to change names, change terrain type etc, that is all done in the txt files. So if you wanted Wales to be called Cymru (which would be perfectly reasonable) then you'd simply edit the "region_specific.txt" and startpos files.

In each startpos file find the SetRegionAttribute:: line for ID_WALES, change the name where it says "Wales", to "Cymru" and "Wales_castle_xzy" to "Cymru_castle_xzy", then make matching changes in your region_specific.txt file. Everywhere you find Wales, replace it with Cymru and your province will now have its new name. If you want to change the terrain, simply edit the SetBorderInfo:: lines in the startpos files.

If you want to change the BORDERS of Wales, so they get the Marches back, for instance, but keep everything else the same, then that is a simple graphics job.

The really functional bit is the LUKUP.LBM map in the textures/campmap folder. (The original MTW has four copies, two large, two small - you only need TWO copies - one large, one small - compare with the textures/campmap/Viking folder)

First off you need to convert this to another format to work on. Either UltimatePaint or Mithel ImageConverter are needed here (there are others but I'll stick with the easier ones). UP can convert it to BMP format (IIRC), which is best, Mithel outputs in either JPG, PNG or LBM. It's best to get the LUKUP into BMP 256 colour format, with the correct palette. Open this in Photoshop or whatever, and then simply redraw the area of Wales using the correct colour - each province has two colours - a body colour and an outline colour. When you're happy with the re-absorbed Herefordshire, say, then save to 256 BMP, then double the size and save again as LUKUP2. Convert these two back into LBM format using Mithel (this is simply the best tool for this job), copy back into your textures folder and give it a go...

If you really want to go to town you can also grab BIFReader and change the borders on the minilukup and fe_minilukup maps, but something so small is probably not worth the bother ... :2thumbsup:

[caravel]

Personally I use only Ultimate Paint, Mithel Image Converter and Paint Shop Pro XI for map editing.

The first thing to do is open the lukupmap2 in Mithel and export the pallette. Then open it in UP and copy and paste the whole image as a new image into PSP, work on the image using PSP then paste it back into the same UP image and save it - that is click "save" and not save as or anything else. The image is never saved in PSP, as PSP will mess it up permanently. I use PSP to do the editing as it is much more user friendly and faster to use which is important considering the laborious manual editing involved. The next part is to open the saved image in Mithel, import the pallette and save it again. This gives you a working Lukupmap with the correct pallette. It takes a bit of practice, and I have struggled with this for a long time. Mithel is the key to the problem as without it, it's a massive struggle.

:bow:

[axel]

hi all
i dont understand this, if i wanted to make or practice to make a campain map
wot program do i exact need and where cane i find them ? i have been looking at the link and cant find the tools, isnt there a step to step post how to make campain maps sommewhere?
i got photoshop CS2 and i got Gimp are those good for it?
sry mates i am new in this but i want to try and do somme helping by making maps :yes:

[macsen rufus]

You can find most of the tools here:

http://www.atomicgamer.com/directory.php?id=1173

And this bit wasn't a joke: 'Seriously, put aside about two months where you expect to do nothing else with your spare time.'

As with all things it's best to start small and build up as you crack each level.


Mithel is the key to the problem as without it, it's a massive struggle.

:yes: :yes: :yes: I cannot stress enough that Mithel is THE KEY to mapmaking - and it is available from the link above.

It also has LMM up there for when you're ready to do a complete new map - however, to use it you will also need to download a DLL from here (http://www.chestysoft.com/imagefile/default.asp). This is a free trial version, but you can keep downloading new copies each month, don't worry about having to finish your map in 30 days etc.

I don't think there is a complete step-by-step guide, just lots of useful bits of information scattered around the Org and the "readme" files of the tools. Really, the LMM thread is the closest you'll get, but even that will assume you already know most of it.

[caravel]

hi all
i dont understand this, if i wanted to make or practice to make a campain map
wot program do i exact need and where cane i find them ? i have been looking at the link and cant find the tools, isnt there a step to step post how to make campain maps sommewhere?
i got photoshop CS2 and i got Gimp are those good for it?
sry mates i am new in this but i want to try and do somme helping by making maps :yes:
Photoshop or the gimp can fulfil the role of Paint Shop Pro, but you won't be able to load or save images with it. To clarify:

1) Open Mithel Image Converter, open the vanilla lukupmap2.lbm and save the pallette file from the image and then close the image. This creates your true pallette from the virgin lukupmap2.lbm file. This is the palette you will use from now on for all maps.

2) Open lukupmap2.lbm in Ultimate Paint

3) copy the entire image to the clipboard, as in edit -> copy or CTRL+C if you prefer. Leave Ultimate Paint open and running in the background, do not save the image, do nothing more with Ultimate Paint yet.

4) Open Paint Shop Pro/the gimp/Photoshop/Photopaint, paste the image as a new image, as in edit -> paste or file new from clipboard or in Photoshop create a new image and paste it in.

5) Edit the image in Paint Shop Pro/the gimp/Photoshop/Photopaint and when you're done copy the entire image to the clipboard, as in edit -> copy or CTRL+C if you prefer.

6) Now go back to Ultimate Paint and simply go to edit -> paste or CTRL+V if you prefer that.

7) Go to file -> save, not "save as".

8) Back to Mithel Image Converter and load your newly edited image again.

9) Load the palette.

10) Save the image.

I think Mithel calls it lupmap2new.lbm so you'll need to rename the original as a .bak and then rename lupmap2new.lbm to lupmap2.lbm in order to test it.

Mithel also allows you to view the pallette. You will get to know if you have the correct pallete loaded just by viewing it as it's pretty obvious.

Basically Mithel is your pallette converter, which is vital.

Ultimate paint saves your lbms which is also vital.

Any other paint packages are just used for convenience as UP has a pretty horrible interface.

[axel]

thx mate s ill give it a try:2thumbsup:

[axel]

hi a fue questions please where do i find the ultimate paint???
and i got mithel i unzipt it and got 3 files witch one do i use ??
image converter and wot dose the ms dos image converter do ?? :dizzy2: :dizzy2:

[caravel]

hi a fue questions please where do i find the ultimate paint???
http://www.mizus.com/files/files/Tools/Ultimate_Paint_2.8_lbm-editor.zip



and i got mithel i unzipt it and got 3 files witch one do i use ??
image converter and wot dose the ms dos image converter do ?? :dizzy2: :dizzy2:
Unzip the file "Mithel_ImageConverter110.zip" to a folder called Mithel.

You should have three files in the folder:

ImageConverter.jar
ImageConverter.bat
readme.txt

The file that you use to run the program is the .bat file. If you read the readme.txt file this will explain all. You will need to download and install the J2RE, as explained in the readme.txt as the program won't work otherwise.

http://www.java.com/en/download/index.jsp

[axel]

Hi Caravel thanks for your quick reaction cane you tell me please wot dose the ultimate paint do wots it for :beam:

[axel]

Hi if i open the image converter ill get a grey window where you cane search in your documents, is this correct ?? and wots the pallette file where do i find this ???:2thumbsup:

[axel]

hi again i got jave 5.0:yes:

[caravel]

axel, everything is explained in the above posts. Please re-read my last post where both the purpose of Ultimate Paint and how to get the correct pallette is explained.

:bow:

[macsen rufus]

Hi Axel - Although you can run Mithel from the JAR or the BAT, I always use the batch file - this allocates a LOT of memory for the application and ensures it can handle the large map files easily (ie the LUKUPMAP2.LBM). When you first use Mithel, you will need to save a colourtable for future use. The best way to do this is by taking one from a pre-existing map:

a) run the BAT
b) this will open a dos window and your dialog box
c) browse to Mediaeval/textures/campmap
d) open either LUKUPMAP or LUKUPMAP2.LBM - this is the "overlay" map that tells the game where the provinces and borders are (use one from a VI install for an up to date index)
e) then SAVE the colour table (from the top left drop-down menu) - this creates a file called "colortable.ct" and is the only one Mithel will look for. If for any reason you need to make LBMs with a different colour table (like unit icons or pre-battle map images), you will need to manually remove/rename this file, replace it with the one you want, and change it back when you're finished. A small limitation, but one you need to know about!
f) now that you have your colour table saved, you can make your new map, load it into Mithel, then use the LOAD COLOUR TABLE command to ensure your new map has the correct LBM colours indexed. There is also a feature to check the colour table, and also to display the colour table as Caravel mentioned.

I can't really help you with UltimatePaint as I don't actually use it, except to browse LBM images. Personally I am a Photoshop fan, so that's what I use :2thumbsup:

The overall method is slightly different, depending on whether you are editing an existing LUKUP or making a new one from scratch. Either way I work in Photoshop on a 256 colour BMP file. As this is an indexed format you can also save colourtables, but would need to set one up first (either item-by-item, editting each colour by RGB values, or I can send you one :2thumbsup: as you REALLY don't want to enter 256 different sets of RGB values...)

Although PS preserves the colourtable in BMPs, Mithel doesn't load it, so you still need to load the Mithel colourtable once you've opened the file. The down side is that Mithel cannot SAVE to BMP format - so if you want to make a BMP to edit, you'd first need to save it to PNG (not JPG - too lossy), then open this with Photoshop, change mode to indexed and load the correct colour table - this should snap all the colours to the right RGB values. At this point save it as a 256 BMP, and keep it as your reference/working copy. Once you have a BMP of the map as you want it to be, save it and use Mithel to convert to LBM format. You'll need to do some name changes, moving around etc afterwards, but that's basically it.

If you are making a totally new map from LMM then this will output a BMP file for you, so just use that (good as LMM is you will almost certainly need to make some "fine-detail" edits). This will be properly indexed already, so long as you have the VI version of the colourtable for LMM to use..... (again I can let you have one if you go that route). If you are drawing one from scratch, then obviously you create and save it as a BMP.

One further point to confuse you with, as me and Caravel have the exact opposite practices - for my part I always work on the LUKUP (ie smaller version) map, and use this to generate the double sized LUKUP2 version. The reason being that every single pixel blown up becomes four new identical ones - but going the opposite way you risk the graphics prog trying to divide a single pixel into two - this can result in it either removing features (if your image is tightly indexed) or creating new colours (if your image is in RGB mode) unless and I guess this is how Caravel works (but correct me if I'm wrong) you ensure that your minimum line width and pen size is 2 pixels. Again it's just a matter of deciding your method and sticking with it.

:bow:


If you do want to make your Photoshop colour table the hard way, here's an extract from the file I used for LMM:

// **** NEW MAP ****
// Just a palette table, defining -
//
// a) a palette number (0-255)
// b) 3 values (RGB) for the colour associated with the palette number
//
// This palette of RGB colours is used in association with the table
// "LookupTable.txt". The numbers 000 to 255 relate directly to the
// Land/Border colours and the Sea colours defined in "LookupTable.txt".
//
// Note: the values in this table have been extracted from the palette
// contained in the MTW file 'LukMap2.lbm'.
// 001 143,63,63

000 255,0,255
001 0,255,255
002 147,67,67
003 155,71,71
004 163,79,79
005 171,83,83
006 179,91,91
007 187,99,99
008 195,103,103
009 199,111,111
010 207,119,119
011 215,123,123
012 223,131,131
013 231,139,139
014 239,147,147
015 247,155,155
016 123,111,91
017 127,115,95
018 135,123,103
019 143,131,111
020 151,139,119
021 159,143,123
022 167,151,131
023 175,159,139
024 183,167,147
025 187,171,155
026 195,179,163
027 203,183,167
028 211,195,179
029 219,203,187
030 227,211,195
031 235,219,203
032 51,115,23
033 55,119,27
034 63,127,27
035 71,135,35
036 79,143,39
037 87,151,43
038 95,155,47
039 103,163,55
040 115,171,59
041 123,179,67
042 131,187,71
043 143,191,79
044 151,199,83
045 163,207,91
046 171,215,99
047 183,223,107
048 131,0,0
049 139,0,0
050 147,0,0
051 155,0,0
052 163,0,0
053 171,0,0
054 179,0,0
055 187,0,0
056 195,0,0
057 203,0,0
058 211,0,0
059 219,0,0
060 227,0,0
061 235,0,0
062 247,0,0
063 255,0,0
064 27,27,115
065 31,31,123
066 35,35,131
067 43,43,143
068 51,47,151
069 59,55,159
070 67,63,171
071 75,71,179
072 83,79,187
073 91,87,199
074 99,99,207
075 111,107,215
076 119,115,227
077 131,127,235
078 143,139,243
079 155,151,255
080 131,131,35
081 139,139,35
082 147,147,39
083 155,155,39
084 163,163,43
085 171,171,43
086 179,179,47
087 187,187,47
088 195,195,51
089 203,203,55
090 211,211,55
091 219,219,59
092 227,227,59
093 235,235,59
094 247,247,63
095 255,255,67
096 83,67,115
097 91,71,123
098 99,79,131
099 107,87,143
100 115,95,151
101 123,99,159
102 131,107,171
103 139,115,179
104 147,123,187
105 155,131,199
106 163,139,207
107 175,147,215
108 183,155,227
109 191,163,235
110 199,175,243
111 211,183,255
112 135,99,51
113 143,103,55
114 151,111,59
115 159,119,63
116 167,127,67
117 175,135,71
118 183,147,75
119 191,155,79
120 199,163,83
121 207,171,87
122 215,179,91
123 223,187,99
124 231,199,103
125 239,207,107
126 247,215,111
127 255,227,119
128 63,107,63
129 67,111,67
130 75,119,75
131 83,123,83
132 87,131,87
133 95,139,95
134 103,143,103
135 111,151,111
136 119,155,119
137 127,163,127
138 139,171,139
139 147,175,147
140 155,183,155
141 167,187,167
142 175,195,175
143 187,203,187
144 119,67,67
145 123,71,71
146 131,79,79
147 135,83,83
148 143,91,91
149 147,99,99
150 155,107,107
151 159,115,115
152 167,123,123
153 171,131,131
154 179,139,139
155 183,147,147
156 191,159,159
157 199,167,167
158 203,175,175
159 211,187,187
160 107,63,107
161 111,67,111
162 119,75,119
163 127,83,127
164 131,87,131
165 139,95,139
166 147,103,147
167 151,111,151
168 159,119,159
169 167,127,167
170 171,139,171
171 179,147,179
172 187,155,187
173 191,167,191
174 199,175,199
175 207,187,207
176 63,107,107
177 67,111,111
178 75,119,119
179 83,123,123
180 87,131,131
181 95,139,139
182 103,143,143
183 111,151,151
184 119,155,155
185 127,163,163
186 139,171,171
187 147,175,175
188 155,183,183
189 167,187,187
190 175,195,195
191 187,203,203
192 67,67,111
193 71,71,115
194 79,79,123
195 83,83,127
196 91,91,135
197 99,99,139
198 107,107,147
199 115,115,151
200 123,123,159
201 131,131,163
202 139,139,171
203 147,147,175
204 159,159,183
205 167,167,191
206 175,175,195
207 187,187,203
208 171,91,19
209 175,95,23
210 179,99,31
211 187,107,35
212 191,111,43
213 199,119,51
214 203,127,59
215 207,146,67
216 215,139,75
217 219,147,83
218 227,155,91
219 231,163,103
220 235,171,111
221 243,179,119
222 247,183,131
223 255,195,143
224 119,71,51
225 127,75,55
226 135,87,63
227 143,95,71
228 155,103,79
229 163,111,87
230 171,119,95
231 179,131,103
232 191,139,115
233 199,151,123
234 207,159,135
235 219,171,143
236 227,179,155
237 235,191,167
238 243,203,179
239 255,215,191
240 107,107,107
241 115,115,115
242 123,123,123
243 131,131,131
244 139,139,139
245 151,151,151
246 159,159,159
247 167,167,167
248 175,175,175
249 183,183,183
250 195,195,195
251 0,255,255
252 0,255,255
253 0,255,255
254 0,255,255
255 239,239,239

[caravel]

macsen rufus you know much more about this than I do, but I had assumed that the lukupmap.lbm and maptex.tga were used for low res such as 800*600 and lukupmap2.lbm and maptex2.tga for high res of 1024*768? Because of this I've never bothered generating lukupmap.lbm.

Also are you saying that I can use a .bmp file, import the pallet and save it as a working .lbm from mithel? If that's the case I can cut Ultimate Paint out which would be great as it has a limited trial license and I end up having to do a registry restore and reinstall it. :dizzy2:

Also in the campaign selection screens I wonder do you know which image I have to edit to for the campaign maps there -and slso the satellite map in campaign?

Many Thanks.

Edit: if you want a program for simply viewing lbms then paint shop pro can but it can't save them. A better alternative as a viewer only is irfanview but I think you need the iff/lbm plug in.

:bow:

[macsen rufus]

@Caravel - yes, the LUKUP and MapTex are in two sizes - I'd always assumed they were both needed to cover the "zoomed in" and "zoomed out" extremes as well as resolution settings. Anyway, I've always done both as I never know which setting mod players will be using... :beam: However, I never did work out why there were two copies of each size of LUKUPMAP, under different names.

And yes, Mithel will open BMP images, but you still need to load the Mithel colourtable - I notice that when I load up a BMP into Mithel and then go to "Display palette" it just gives 256 black entries. So I guess you can do without UP after all, and I'm sure your registry will start looking a lot less nervous :laugh4:

The faction selection screen and mini-satellite map are both BIFs, also in the textures/campmap folder (or textures/my_mod/campmap, if you have a mod textures sub-folder). For the faction-selection screen it is FE_MINILUKUP.bif, for the satellite map it is minilukup.bif. The background maps for these are FE_minimap.bif and minimap.bif - these last two don't need changing, just the lukup versions. They work on the same basic principle - indexed colours to represent the different provinces (sea regions don't show here and are just transparent - ie BIF "green" 008000 - same for "dead" regions like Sahara or water on land) THE PALETTE IS DIFFERENT - again best bet is to save an existing one from the basic (VI) game first*. I did this by opening one of the minilukups with BIFReader, exporting to BMP, then saving the colour table from Photoshop. Note that the indexing is such that colour index = province number x2 (ie Scotland = province one, colour two, Northumbria is province two, colour four etc etc -- much easier to remember if you use the VI terminology of ID_LANDREG_01 etc etc :2thumbsup: )

The sizes are a little odd, and although they look like they are scaled copies of each other like the main maps, they are not. Due to their size it is quite easy to edit them in BIFReader, a pixel at a time - that way you can be 100% sure on the indexing of the colours.

The game really doesn't care if these maps bear any resemblance to the actual campaign map, by the way, or even if all the colours are present... after much fiddling I decided this bit was the least likely to be the cause of that "new map CTD" :2thumbsup:

EDIT: * actually, the BEST BET is really to do this with the XL map, as it has colours for all the available land regions, or *cough* the Ancient main map *cough*, as it also has colours for all the possible sea regions as well.

[axel]

thx mates ill give it a go
one more question please if i open the lukupmap i get a map of europe with all different colors is this the palete or the color table you both talking about ??? and if so how cane you change the normal campain map (the one wich is on the game)??
i will learn this it will take somme time but i will help making maps :yes: :yes: