Let's get serious about global warming

[Don Corleone]

Okay,okay, you've all convinced me. Consider me on the bandwagon. I haven't seen the hard scientific evidence the globe is headed for a cataclysmic end within the next 50 years, or that mankind's efforts have had a demonstrable affect on the planet's innate warming/cooling trends. But I'm sure it's coming! I mean, the man responsible for providing most of the evidence invented the internet!!! How far off can reliable data be?

So, in light of that, I want to issue a challenge to each and every one of you Orgahs out there. I want you all to help me save the planet. Using my engineering education, I applied knowledge to the problem, I crammed my tongue as far up into my cheek as I can, and I've identified some things each and every one of us can do to help save the planet.

1) Outlaw console games. The X-box 360 consumes 180Watts (steady-state, not power-on surge) during normal game play activity. The Playstation 3 consumes 192 Watts! Now, you might argue that PC's have value other than entertainment, but console games have to go. As people have correctly said about automobiles, you don't need a console game to survive, and lets face it folks, that extra night you spent playing Madden or Bioshock just might melt a glacier. :skull:

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C. We need a new, green defintion of what 'room temperature' is. Instead of having this crazy obession with a static 70F/25C, let's just let it drift to where nature takes it. Don't like it being 95F/35C indoors in the summer? Too bad. Feeling a bit chilly at 60F/15.5C in the winter? Again, too bad. Nobody 'needs' air conditioning or heat above the levels I've specified. We'll all survive. If you're chilly, buy another sweater (just make certain it's not manmade fibers, wool, cotton, angora, silk, cashmere or hemp... explanations as to why each of these fibers will be banned available upon request).

3) No more meat. No more field cultivated vegetable matter. From now on, everything we eat will be grown in hydroponics, with protein supplemental tablets to fill in the gaps. Animal husbandry is an economic disaster. The methane cows and sheep generate is turning our planet into Venus. As for agriculture, sorry, that has to go as well. We need more forests. So we're going for 'reverse slash-and-burn' techniques. From now on, we're going to burn cropland and let the natural ecosystem take back over. When we get the planet back to 85% natural habitat, then we'll talk about a soybean patch or two, but don't get your hopes up.

4) No more cooking. As per the above, we're all going to be vegetarians anyway (except for some essential Omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil tablets that will be administered in suppository form). Vegetables are more healthy when consumed raw, as their vitamin content remains intact (all cooking processes break down advanced vitamin molecules, even steaming; the question is how much). With a higher vitamin and caloric intake, your overall food consumption can be reduced. Maybe one lb (1/2 kg) of brocoli a day is all you need to sustain you. Maybe it's 1/2 lb (0.25kg). My point is, all the rock concerts in the world where we all sing kumbaya and feel really, really bad about global warming can't make up for the planetary holocaust we've unleashed with what I call the '4 appliances of the apocalypse', the range/oven combo (1700W), the microwave (1450W), the refrigerator (990W) and the dishwasher (1200W). If we all eat our food in minimal doses, raw, just think of how many snowflakes in Antartica we'll save? Then we can really brag about our greenness with Leo DiCaprio.

5) No more bathing. No more washing with hot water unless you're in a hospital. We now have Purelle, Dial, and about 5 other anti-bacterial 'hand sanitizer' products on the market. From now on, we will all be issued a container for carrying it. To make certain we don't fill the landfills with misplaced bottles, the bottle will be made of titanium. It will be attached to a spring-coiled tether, the other end of which will be surgically implanted into your forearm. That way, one human, one bottle, for all our lives. Any time we sense a hygiene issue, instead of the planet killing hot water treatment, you simply break out your personal supply of anti-bacterial agent and apply as necessary. Why? The single greatest threat to the planet, despite what Al Gore says, is not the combustion engine. I've looked into this. The real terror is in the home, not the garage. That's right, the hot water hearter, at a Disastrous 3300W (average use = 3KW-hours/year). Folks, even if you get a bacterial infection, you'll probably live. You don't need hot water, you just selfishly consume it because you have a small penis, or some other personality disorder.

Note: This satire is not intended to belittle environmental conciousness. Quite the contrary, I think we could all do a little more to help the planet out a bit, and as a naturalist (I'm an eagle scout, remember?) I'm all about doing my part and encouraging others to do the same. But I see a lot of hypocricy and sanctimonious preaching when it comes to enviromentalism. People appear to use it as a means to ban items they don't like to begin with. The argument frequently given is that we don't need items that are proposed for banning. Fair enough. I've done my best Robert Swift impersonation and offered 5 examples of things we don't need that we could ban and would help the planet. And understand that as silly or pushy as you find some of my above suggestions to be, your own demands may be every bit as well-received, and perhaps by intelligent, rational people that simply see things differently than you do.

[Fragony]

Read somewhere that if the eco-nostra would just stop breathing it would have a bigger effect on the enviroment then banning cars when it comes to co2 reduction. Safe the planet, jump.

[Ronin]

1- the problem isn´t the X-box....the problem is the X-box working at the same time than the computer, the radio, all the lights in the house, etc, etc, etc.
turn off the stuff you are not really using....and you can keep the x-box

2- fine by me....I don´t use air-conditioning.....

3- again....no one said we should get rid of everything.....what about getting rid of Macdonalds and Burger king for starters?....I don´t think anyone would really miss them.....and we could all use with eating a little less junk food.

4 & 5 - Solar energy for starters.....I have solar panels in my house and they work very well so I´ll keep my hot showers thank you :laugh4:
if you don´t I´m happy you´re available to take this one for the team....just make sure to stay up-wind from me. :book:

yes....we all know Al Gore is a buffon.....even if he is now a buffon with a good message......just don´t assume we all are.

[Don Corleone]

1- the problem isn´t the X-box....the problem is the X-box working at the same time than the computer, the radio, all the lights in the house, etc, etc, etc.
turn off the stuff you are not really using....and you can keep the x-box

2- fine by me....I don´t use air-conditioning.....

3- again....no one said we should get rid of everything.....what about getting rid of Macdonalds and Burger king for starters?....I don´t think anyone would really miss them.....and we could all use with eating a little less junk food.

4 & 5 - Solar energy for starters.....I have solar panels in my house and they work very well so I´ll keep my hot showers thank you :laugh4:
if you don´t I´m happy you´re available to take this one for the team....just make sure to stay up-wind from me. :book:

Will your solar panels still be able to power your hot water heater, and all your electrical demands when we cut you off the grid? See, if you keep that X-box, no more juice for you. Good luck playing on your X-box at 2AM... I hear solar has a couple of design flaws... :yes:

[Don Corleone]

yes....we all know Al Gore is a buffon.....even if he is now a buffon with a good message......just don´t assume we all are.

I don't. As I said, I think the message is a worthy one. But just flip over to the SUV thread, and you'll see the stock message I'm railing against "You don't need it and I don't like it....". It's this mentality, not environmentalism, that I mock.

[drone]

The problem is not energy consumption, it's inefficient energy consumption. If Ronin were to hook his XBox into a heat exchanger to his hot water tank, he could have his games and his hot showers with little extra cost. :tongue2:

[Ronin]

Will your solar panels still be able to power your hot water heater, and all your electrical demands when we cut you off the grid? See, if you keep that X-box, no more juice for you. Good luck playing on your X-box at 2AM... I hear solar has a couple of design flaws... :yes:

I didn´t say I´m cut off from the grid...I´m not a fundamentalist........but I´m not sticking my head in the sand and saying that nothing´s wrong either.




I don't. As I said, I think the message is a worthy one. But just flip over to the SUV thread, and you'll see the stock message I'm railing against "You don't need it and I don't like it....". It's this mentality, not environmentalism, that I'm railing against.

I´m against SUV´s because they are a fashion statement for 90% of the people that drive them...all you have to do is look at the SUVs them selfs....most modern SUVs are such city "domesticated" cars that they would fall apart if you really tried to go off-road with them...they are simply ego boosts for people who´s parents didn´t hold them enough or something.

so I get a bit peeved when I´m stuck in huge lines of traffic and can´t find a place to park because these big people toys take up almost twice the space of a normal car (normal by European standards at least)

and yes...I am aware the there are those 10% of people that actually have a real need for their SUVs...they are easily identifiable by were they live, were they work...and most of the time they don´t buy the "wussy" SUVs that the other 90% buy.

you will notice in the other topic that I never asked for banning SUVs........I might have the occasional urge to beat the SUV moron in from of me in traffic to death....but I just put on a music cd and try to relax.

[The_Mark]

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C. We need a new, green defintion of what 'room temperature' is. Instead of having this crazy obession with a static 70F/25C, let's just let it drift to where nature takes it. Don't like it being 95F/35C indoors in the summer? Too bad. Feeling a bit chilly at 60F/15.5C in the winter? Again, too bad. Nobody 'needs' air conditioning or heat above the levels I've specified.
Bah. One winter, I slept with a window open through the Finnish winter, and I didn't have a heater.


The methane cows and sheep generate is turning our planet into Venus.
Preventable. The methane evaporates from the manure of the animals, which can be collected with its methane fit for fuel.

[Fragony]

HA talking of global warming

Water, lots of it. Seems like we will be under siege tonight, barriers closing for the first 24th time in history. Our epic struggle continues.

http://www.neeltjejans.nl/img/183.jpg

God did I just survive the fire now I drown :wall:

[Xiahou]

Don, just to balance your global warming hysteria, I'll post this (http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/comments_about_global_warming/) article by the Weather Channel founder, John Coleman. ~;p
It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minute documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

Edit: I think the real shame of global warming hysteria is that it's distracting attention and resources away from more serious and more immediate environmental problems. But, hey, at least it made Al Gore into a multi-millionaire. :rolleyes:

[Husar]

Rush Limbaugh said global warming is a scare tactic, so there's no need to debate it anymore. ~:)

[Papewaio]

I'd say global warming is happening.

What I'm not sure is if the human factor is a significant component and/or enough to tip it out of an equilibrium. However given that by past mass extinction events our rise is equivalent to one, it is indeed possible that our mass extermination could be a cause in changing the environment. We are very apt at destroying mega-fauna and larger species through primary intervention (hunting). More Howevers... most of the biomass is a) Tiny organism, b) a large chunk in the ocean. Also these smaller organisms are the ones that play a larger role in regulating the local/global environment... they are also more susceptible to pollution... so we are probably killing more of this indirectly then compared with mega fauna. Anyhow the main gist is are we changing the rate of global warming?

Then even if global warming is occurring purely because of human intervention... do we want to stop it? Surely in the time of the dinosaurs the earth supported a plethora of life... could a more hotter, humid, wetter earth supply more food and hence support more humans? So is global warming necessarily a bad thing?

Well certainly if we greenhouse ourselves too much we will end up like Venus. Venus is twice the distance from the sun then Mercury. So it receives a quarter the energy per unit of surface area then that of Mercury. But it is hotter then Mercury because of the greenhouse effect. Venus's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide and is so thick it's like standing a kilometer underwater... thats a lot of pressure. And the temperature is hot enough to melt lead on the surface of Venus. The clouds are made of sulphuric acid.

I'm pretty sure the mixture of acids, temperature and pressure would if it presided on earth wipe out any traces of us.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Interesting ideas Don. I am glad you gave this topic some thought and are starting to see the error of your ways. I do, however, still think that the best way to combat Global Warming is by disciplining Americans. :smash:

Note: satire below. This satire is not intended to belittle Americans, only to prove to them the superioty of Europeans.

1) Outlaw console games.

Fair enough. I'll swap my tiny Xbox for your enormous SUV.

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C.

Deal! Hey, we West-Europeans live in a very temperate sea-climate. Temperatures don't really vary a lot. I can live with your rules.
The majority of Americans on the other hand face a harsh land climate. Minus twenty in winter, snow blizzards and all, and 35C / 95F for six months in summer.

God loves Europeans.


3) No more meat. No more field cultivated vegetable matter.

Nah, a limited intake of food will suffice. Let's say, oh, European sized meals. This also reduces excess body fat, reducing the need of airconditioning at all times to prevent overheating.


4) No more cooking. we've unleashed what I call the '4 appliances of the apocalypse', the range/oven combo (1700W), the microwave (1450W), the refrigerator (990W) and the dishwasher (1200W). If we all eat our food in minimal doses, raw, just think of how many snowflakes in Antartica we'll save?

Great idea! Let's not nuke food anymore. Instead, let's cultivate slow food, regional products, respect for what's on your plate, and scorn pre-processed foods as much as possible.
Hmm, I wonder if all the above can possibly be combined with a fantastically delicious cuisine too? That would seriously rule, but where on earth could we find a culture that embraces all this?


5) No more bathing.

Brilliant idea! Let's not have regular showers anymore! In fact, again we French already set an example to the world and....errr...wait, no comment on this one.

[Papewaio]

God loves Europeans.


[SFTS mode]Actually God only gives out what we can handle... So God thinks Europeans are wussy Pinko's too. :laugh4: [/SFTS mode]

[LittleGrizzly]

Okay,okay, you've all convinced me. Consider me on the bandwagon. I haven't seen the hard scientific evidence the globe is headed for a cataclysmic end within the next 50 years, or that mankind's efforts have had a demonstrable affect on the planet's innate warming/cooling trends. But I'm sure it's coming! I mean, the man responsible for providing most of the evidence invented the internet!!! How far off can reliable data be?


1) Outlaw console games.

haven't had a console since playstation 1

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C.

well extremely cold weather can be combatted with better insulation, dont seem to have any problems with it being to hot only that its rare...
3) No more meat. No more field cultivated vegetable matter.

vegtables are only good for making chips, seen as we cant cook anyway im ok with that. I do like meat but could make do without.

4) No more cooking.

Grizz doesn't eat much anyway....

5) No more bathing. No more washing with hot water unless you're in a hospital.

I'd say 10 minute showers would be acceptable, (grizz spends a good 20 mins) better water recycling facilities would be appropriate


Grizz doesn't have a problem with SUV's, i think most people just see it as a symbol of waste, there are cars like ferraris pj mentioned as well.

Theres alot of energy waste all over the place and i think the only way it'll get solved is by a mix of technolgy and goverement as without new technologys i think it would be too much of an impact on the worlds economys..

[woad&fangs]

1) Outlaw console games.
Haven't played a console in several months and I don't feel the need to.

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C.
I put on a coat once last year and that was for deer hunting where I had to sit still in tempuratures below freezing for several hours straight.

3) No more (farmed) meat.
I am mighty hunter, Here me ROAR!!! However, as the official ambassador of Wisconsin to the .Org I must inform you that any attemps to disrupt are dairy empire will be considered an act of war.

4) No more cooking(with appliances).
Real men cook with Thermite anyways.

5) No more bathing.
Would you guys think that I'm messed up in the head if I said that two of my favorite smells are gunpowder and freshly gutted deer carcass? As long as I smell like that I don't see a reason to take a shower.

[Viking]

I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States.

Strange no one believes someone that has convincing arguments, such as:


I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change.

I'm sure we must be blind to ignore the logical fallacy that the global warming obviously is. :laugh4:

[Mikeus Caesar]

I gave up trying to save the world long ago. Ultimately, you can't stop global warming. Whining about how we should all recycle our sandals will never stop big evil corporations from wanting to make a profit, irregardless of the cost to the environment.

You stop using your xbox, China opens another coal power plant to keep it's industrial polluting machine going. What's the point? Even if all civilians were to make a few sacrifices, it wouldn't make a difference in the face of the expanding global economy.

And you also have to contest with human stubborness. As much as people like to say they want to help 'mother earth', humans are really just lying, self-interested jackasses who would sell their own grandmothers if it wasn't for fear of being looked down upon by society. No one's going to give up their big comfy SUV in exchange for a piddly euro-car, are they?

And all that fossil fuel is going to be burned up eventually. Why prolong the inevitable? I say bring on the warm, humid apocalypse.

Also, same goes to recycling - what's the point? Ultimately, the huge mark humans have left on the world outdoes any mass-recycling attempt. And by throwing your plastic fast-food wrappers out the car window, you're contributing to the preservation of human history through the ages - after all, in the end, all that will be left of us is a thin layer of broken plastic, crushed in between the mud and eons of shale.

[macsen rufus]

:gah:


Will your solar panels still be able to power your hot water heater, and all your electrical demands when we cut you off the grid?

An ENGINEER, you said?

[Duke John]

The goal is to consume less, not to consume not at all. There is no need to get polarised over everything.

As an engineer I would have expected you would have come with sensible solutions that are already being used instead of ridiculing your opposition. We are getting close to have houses/clusters of houses that use no energy from the net. How about forming an opinion about those kind of developments?

[Prodigal]

There should not be standby buttons, things are on or they're off. What is really freakin scary is that many appliances consume the same amount of electricity, (or only marginally less), when they off as when they're on, htf that works is a bit beyond me, but plugs that actually CUT power flow automatically when an appliance is not in use would be handy.

Lots & lots of other things which I cannot be bothered to write now.

Anyway, its easy to throw up your hands in despair & do the whole "woe is me" bit, & sure china & co. are causing problems, but so is the US, the UK & everywhere bloody else, so get a grip & do whatever tf YOU can, ok on a global scale it won't mean dick, but maybe it'll save you some money...So where's the harm?

[JR-]

you want to put a brake on global warming?

easy, just get the US and Russia to nuke China and India.

it will:
remove over a third of the worlds population
it will remove two of the worlds biggest CO2 polluters
it will remove two of the worlds biggest toxic polluters
remove mass produced cheap consumables
it will cause a nuclear winter that will cool the world by way more than kyoto will ever achieve

not a bad start, eh?

[Husar]

You forgot Pakistan in your target list, can't remove India and forget about Pakistan.

[Ironside]

Then even if global warming is occurring purely because of human intervention... do we want to stop it? Surely in the time of the dinosaurs the earth supported a plethora of life... could a more hotter, humid, wetter earth supply more food and hence support more humans? So is global warming necessarily a bad thing?


It's not the warming, it's the speed that it occur that's the problem. Adaptation can only go so fast.

[Fragony]

Hmmmm, doomsday storm turned out to be a huge dissapointment. Rotterdam still exists. Beach is pwned though.

http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/zandvoort468.jpg

[Prodigal]

you want to put a brake on global warming?

easy, just get the US and Russia to nuke China and India.

it will:
remove over a third of the worlds population
it will remove two of the worlds biggest CO2 polluters
it will remove two of the worlds biggest toxic polluters
remove mass produced cheap consumables
it will cause a nuclear winter that will cool the world by way more than kyoto will ever achieve

not a bad start, eh?
radiation isn't really going to help the whole clean planet thing I suspect, easier to wait and see if ma nature can brew up a nice tasty global epidemic that mutates realllly fast.

[JR-]

it will be localised, and can hardly be worse than the toxic mess that is china's water-table.

[JR-]

You forgot Pakistan in your target list, can't remove India and forget about Pakistan.
yeah, but there are only 170m of them, and the sum total of Pakistans industry is some bearded ex-mujahadeen scraping a living in the mountains making cheap knock-off AK47's.

I think their industrial CO2 emissions are probably outweighed by the annual camel market in Wazirastan.

[Duke John]

I think their industrial CO2 emissions are probably outweighed by the annual camel market in Waziratsan.
Comment of the day! :medievalcheers:

[Louis VI the Fat]

As an engineer I would have expected you would have come with sensible solutions that are already being used instead of ridiculing your opposition. Don is merely ridiculing hypocrisy about environmentalism, and SUVs, in this thread.

Seeing as how Euro and American humour don't always mix well I'll give Don the serious reply this time:
Yes, you are right, fair enough. There is an element of hypocracy and sanctimonious preaching when it comes to enviromentalism.

[Sigurd]

Anyone interested in debating this?

Global warming is a hoax vs. Global warming is happening

[Husar]

yeah, but there are only 170m of them, and the sum total of Pakistans industry is some bearded ex-mujahadeen scraping a living in the mountains making cheap knock-off AK47's.

I think their industrial CO2 emissions are probably outweighed by the annual camel market in Wazirastan.
You obviously didn't read the most recent Pakistan thread or else you would know that Musharraf is anh evil dictator and the Taliban are going to take over the country anyway. :skull:

[RoadKill]

Hmmm.....

I could either stop playing Madden 08 on my PS3 and save the world from turning into a living hell. Or since I'm already 14 and global warming isn't suppose to start in 50 years, I can just play Madden on my PS3 for another 64 years.

I think I'll go for the second option.

[Don Corleone]

Don is merely ridiculing hypocrisy about environmentalism, and SUVs, in this thread.

Seeing as how Euro and American humour don't always mix well I'll give Don the serious reply this time:
Yes, you are right, fair enough. There is an element of hypocracy and sanctimonious preaching when it comes to enviromentalism.

Actually, there's been several times recently when you had me cracking up, especially the political cartoon. I just couldn't think of anything witty enough to be worthy of continuing.

[Don Corleone]

Anyone interested in debating this?

Global warming is a hoax vs. Global warming is happening

Is that really what you think I was thinking when I opened this thread? :strawman3:

[Sigurd]

Is that really what you think I was thinking when I opened this thread? :strawman3:
Not really...
But since members seemed to be a little interested in this topic, I thought; why not ask? I am trying to get a few formal debates going.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Okay,okay, you've all convinced me. Consider me on the bandwagon. I haven't seen the hard scientific evidence the globe is headed for a cataclysmic end within the next 50 years, or that mankind's efforts have had a demonstrable affect on the planet's innate warming/cooling trends. But I'm sure it's coming! I mean, the man responsible for providing most of the evidence invented the internet!!! How far off can reliable data be?

So, in light of that, I want to issue a challenge to each and every one of you Orgahs out there. I want you all to help me save the planet. Using my engineering education, I applied knowledge to the problem, I crammed my tongue as far up into my cheek as I can, and I've identified some things each and every one of us can do to help save the planet.

1) Outlaw console games. The X-box 360 consumes 180Watts (steady-state, not power-on surge) during normal game play activity. The Playstation 3 consumes 192 Watts! Now, you might argue that PC's have value other than entertainment, but console games have to go. As people have correctly said about automobiles, you don't need a console game to survive, and lets face it folks, that extra night you spent playing Madden or Bioshock just might melt a glacier. :skull:

2) No more internal airconditioning, outside of grocery stores, and no more heating indoor spaces above 60F, 15.5C. We need a new, green defintion of what 'room temperature' is. Instead of having this crazy obession with a static 70F/25C, let's just let it drift to where nature takes it. Don't like it being 95F/35C indoors in the summer? Too bad. Feeling a bit chilly at 60F/15.5C in the winter? Again, too bad. Nobody 'needs' air conditioning or heat above the levels I've specified. We'll all survive. If you're chilly, buy another sweater (just make certain it's not manmade fibers, wool, cotton, angora, silk, cashmere or hemp... explanations as to why each of these fibers will be banned available upon request).

3) No more meat. No more field cultivated vegetable matter. From now on, everything we eat will be grown in hydroponics, with protein supplemental tablets to fill in the gaps. Animal husbandry is an economic disaster. The methane cows and sheep generate is turning our planet into Venus. As for agriculture, sorry, that has to go as well. We need more forests. So we're going for 'reverse slash-and-burn' techniques. From now on, we're going to burn cropland and let the natural ecosystem take back over. When we get the planet back to 85% natural habitat, then we'll talk about a soybean patch or two, but don't get your hopes up.

4) No more cooking. As per the above, we're all going to be vegetarians anyway (except for some essential Omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil tablets that will be administered in suppository form). Vegetables are more healthy when consumed raw, as their vitamin content remains intact (all cooking processes break down advanced vitamin molecules, even steaming; the question is how much). With a higher vitamin and caloric intake, your overall food consumption can be reduced. Maybe one lb (1/2 kg) of brocoli a day is all you need to sustain you. Maybe it's 1/2 lb (0.25kg). My point is, all the rock concerts in the world where we all sing kumbaya and feel really, really bad about global warming can't make up for the planetary holocaust we've unleashed with what I call the '4 appliances of the apocalypse', the range/oven combo (1700W), the microwave (1450W), the refrigerator (990W) and the dishwasher (1200W). If we all eat our food in minimal doses, raw, just think of how many snowflakes in Antartica we'll save? Then we can really brag about our greenness with Leo DiCaprio.

5) No more bathing. No more washing with hot water unless you're in a hospital. We now have Purelle, Dial, and about 5 other anti-bacterial 'hand sanitizer' products on the market. From now on, we will all be issued a container for carrying it. To make certain we don't fill the landfills with misplaced bottles, the bottle will be made of titanium. It will be attached to a spring-coiled tether, the other end of which will be surgically implanted into your forearm. That way, one human, one bottle, for all our lives. Any time we sense a hygiene issue, instead of the planet killing hot water treatment, you simply break out your personal supply of anti-bacterial agent and apply as necessary. Why? The single greatest threat to the planet, despite what Al Gore says, is not the combustion engine. I've looked into this. The real terror is in the home, not the garage. That's right, the hot water hearter, at a Disastrous 3300W (average use = 3KW-hours/year). Folks, even if you get a bacterial infection, you'll probably live. You don't need hot water, you just selfishly consume it because you have a small penis, or some other personality disorder.

Note: This satire is not intended to belittle environmental conciousness. Quite the contrary, I think we could all do a little more to help the planet out a bit, and as a naturalist (I'm an eagle scout, remember?) I'm all about doing my part and encouraging others to do the same. But I see a lot of hypocricy and sanctimonious preaching when it comes to enviromentalism. People appear to use it as a means to ban items they don't like to begin with. The argument frequently given is that we don't need items that are proposed for banning. Fair enough. I've done my best Robert Swift impersonation and offered 5 examples of things we don't need that we could ban and would help the planet. And understand that as silly or pushy as you find some of my above suggestions to be, your own demands may be every bit as well-received, and perhaps by intelligent, rational people that simply see things differently than you do.

Good post, I'm also quite tired of all the environment-hypocrisy. What is needed is a better coordination and summary of the facts and less of scare productions such as Al Gore's movie, which only worsen the problems.

Then when we know more exactly in which interval the limits of what we can and can't do lie, we should ask ourselves, when we eventually hit the tradeoff between world population size and life quality, do we wish to constantly keep removing more and more of our technology and life quality to be able to have the world feed more and more people without total environment desutrction (i.e. should we choose quantity over quality when it comes to human life), or should we realize that we also have the option of living well with only one restriction, namely birth control laws? Should all people become malnutritioned vegetarians living like this: http://www.martincevic.hr/images/peradarstvo.jpg, or should we have meat and fresh fruit in abundance? Should we concentrate more about trying to cutting emissions per produced item by some lousy, insignificant percentage that makes very little difference to our impact on the environment, while having huge consequences to our life quality, or should we concentrate on taking responsibility and be mature and courageous enough to realize that earth can't feed more than a finite number of human beings and that not prohibiting massive reproduction over that finite limit, is to ask for wars and other nasty atrocities? In the long run, we have only three choices:
1. high living standards, survival, environment healthy enough to go by, but birth control laws
2. high living standards for a short while, then massive destruction and wars with little chances of survival of our species, but at least we get the doubtful pleasure of reproducing without restrictions (well apart from the restrictions imposed by various the wars and other atrocities that will occur)
3. low living standards for everyone, environment may survive (hopefully), plenty of wars, but at least we get the doubtful pleasure of reproducing without restrictions (well apart from the restrictions imposed by various the wars and other atrocities that will occur)

1. corresponds to adding birth control laws but otherwise continuing almost as before, except with the goal of at least not increasing emissions more than their current level.
2. corresponds to no restriction of anything at all, the laissez-faire policy advocated by deniers
3. corresponds to listening to the environmentalist-extremists

[JR-]

You obviously didn't read the most recent Pakistan thread or else you would know that Musharraf is anh evil dictator and the Taliban are going to take over the country anyway. :skull:
ah, so pakistan is going to become even more backward, good, that means even less emissions, and the possibility that they will take care of India for us.*

Does that mean that we (the western world) should be issued with carbon offset credits for creating instability in poorer parts of the world, a bit like planting trees in Brasil?





* see my original post

[Caius]

When the last tree is gone
When the last animal is killed
When the last river is gone
Then we will know that we made such a big mistake, and that will happen in 50 years. Its happening, and its a flaw that we dont want to see.
We can't change at all, in this world the two sides of a coin will exist forever. Don Corleone, you have made such a excelent and interesting post about Global Warm(n)ing. But, you saw that a lot of people dont want to change their lifes. They don't care one each other. In fact, everyone "brings water for her mill".

A lot of changes are need. Apply for the Kyoto Protocol first, then we can talk.

[Whacker]

Meh, from what I've read on the subject, my beliefs are in line with what Papester said earlier. I think global warming is real (as are climate cycles), but the impact we humans are having is negligible at best.

That said, I fully support humanity trying to reduce our impact on the environment. Recycling, better energy consumption and production, waste management, better utilization of space, etc etc etc etc are all Good Things©.

[Lord Winter]

Global warming dosn't exactly mean N.Y., LA and all the other costal cities going under water. Just a few degrees can wreck alot of Biodiversity. Does the earth go in cycles? Yes are we speeding up the cycles? Yes. Do we need to cut everything back? No.

Oh and Xhiou the website that artical's on isn't exactly nutral. Or for that matter I don't see much more in the article then the Weather channel guy saying that its utter BS and we should blindly take his word. Support with evidece atleast.

[Duke John]

Don is merely ridiculing hypocrisy about environmentalism, and SUVs, in this thread.
I know, but the same ridiculing could be applied to the other extreme and neither is getting us anywhere. That some people are hypocrite should be noticeable by most people and in good discussions the posts in question should be ignored as it will only tend to derail the thread from the original subject if you point them out. Hypocrites are not reasoning, they are believing.

Since Don pointed out that he is an engineer I would have much rather seen a post (based on technologies, innovations and resources) about wether consuming more (in general and not just SUVs) is defendable against your grand children who may or may not have the same standard of luxury based on how quickly we are using up our resources. Or are we living in a world where we should start consuming less to avoid a Planet of the Apes.

Or the hypocricy of fighting global warming by promoting biological fuel that leads to rainforests being cut down and rising food prices.

Or the stupidity of putting all the eggs in the global warming basket with the risk of people getting so tired of it that other environmental issues are too swept from the table once the global warming movement has lost momentum or been proven wrong.