View Full Version : Creative Assembly Hi there, Eat Cold Steel!
Great game! Decent Content!
But I have to question your intelligence.
RE-EMERGING FACTIONS. You can defend the mechanics all you want, explain to us until our crotches bulge, shimmy and quiver in that fantasy night club of yours, give a quasi-historical account and explanation...
and still overlook one point: IT ISN'T FUN.
It's not good gameplay. No matter how you defend the cleverness of your construct, ITS_NOT_FUN.
ITS_NOT_FUN. Geddit? No point explaining things to us, and not even to say your explanation is convincing.
Get with the program. People want better civil wars, not mass-spawning, unattackable invisible heirs brewing elite armies in their backyard. LOL. At least spys should be able to catch heirs once in a while.
LOL.
Idiot! You know this is the kind of post that causes developers to never show up on boards. You can disagree with someone without stuping to being insulting - at least most people can. Are you totally braindead or what? CA guys are spending time here, answering questions about the game, helping with modding questions, etc. and you have to shoot your damn mouth off like some immature pimply faced wannabe!
You got a problem - tell them - they can and have taken criticism. But don't be a jerkoff about it. If they stop showing up to answer questions, I guess we'll all know who to blame, won't we?
Grifman
any post attempting to get the attention of developers directly and/or mentioning their names should be deleted.
this community is here as a resource to the developers, and Im sure they can benefit from the views expressed here as well as player difficulty with bugs etc.
however, if everyone thinks that they come here to be your personal technical support, and so you constantly direct posts at them, it will only show them that posting any more than a minimal amount is a bad idea.
considering Ive been seeing alot of posts directed at the devs lately, maybe the mods need to nip this in the butt.
i guess the guy is new to proper games and is stuck at the begining of a campaign, and doesnt get much time to play b4 he has to go to school http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
the developers have done a good job and they cant go to see and help every player that cant control the game.
hhooowwwwwlllllllllll
Oh dear. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Well, you are certainly the minority... personally i love the re-emerging factions feature, i just wish they were tougher when they re-emerged. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Rude posts like this are a waste of time.
No, please not tougher...
They are good as they are, I'm still afraid the French will come back. Last time all they had was Feudal Foot Knights, Fuedal Knights and Royals. About 1200 of them, that scared me as I had nothing to stop them.
Now I have Longbows so I can kill them faster but still.
But this does not mean I don't like it, I love it! It forces you keep an eye on the old French provinces (very easy with the Danes, just keep a good army in Denmark, sadly).
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You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Arkatreides
09-12-2002, 16:13
Hey, it makes the game more interesting, last longer, and challenging in the late stages ... isn't that great???
Let me address the bevy and parade of buffons, sycophants and freaks who have replied to my post.
Dear Grifman, stop jaw jaw and paw paw yourself. While I have colourful language, I have pointed out a very real concern. I dont mind you calling me idiot, but at least address my reasoning. And are developers little fairy, fragile creatures to be tissue wrapped and stored in porcelain? LOL. Take your retard medicine.
Kalt, I direct mail to developers so that they can save time and take note of gameplay questions, which is why they are here innit? Or are they here for you to gently and softly stroke their egos?
macajor, if your idea of controlling the game is to have to do things a certain way all the time, more power to you. And I will be sending my old bottles and newspapers to you too.
DOC, not really sure I am the minority mate. And even if it doesn't suck after the first time, it looks to be a convenient shortcut. Even VGA games had better ways to handle revolt, LOL.
Just imagine, as Cold Steel says, the invisible heirs will ensure they have invisible heirs! Then I wish the developers would introduce a new faction, the Obdurate Bayang-Sayan. All bombard crews. Invisible. LOL.
spmetla and Kraxis, good on you.
Gregoshi
09-12-2002, 19:04
TheWay:
Questionable point! Lousy presentation!
And I have to question your intelligence.
RE-EMERGING FACTIONS. You can defend your reasoning all you want, explain to us until our crotches bulge, shimmy and quiver in that fantasy night club of yours, give a quasi-rational account and explanation...
and still overlook one point: the developers will leave because IT ISN'T FUN anymore. They don't have to be here at all.
It's not good etiquette. No matter how you defend the cleverness of your construct, ITS_NOT_FUN for the developers to read your post.
ITS_NOT_FUN. Geddit? No point explaining things to us, and not even to say your explanation is convincing.
Get with the program. Developers want better constructive interaction with the people, not mass-flaming, unattackable virtual whiners brewing elitist opinions how they could make the game better. LOL.
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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon
eat cold steel
09-12-2002, 19:17
Alright I will put in a "lite" mode for people who don't like rebellions. Just don't complain about the game being too easy, after finishing it on turn 50.
fair play to you ECs, i might have been tempted to ignore the whiners...
Still, maybe they get their kicks from thrashing the Ai in 50 turns time and time and time and time again... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
While we're on this topic though, is it possible to get a "crazymentalserioustoughnutter" mode as well for us crazy foos who lurve a challenge? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Ta
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=MizuDoc Otomo=
DarknScaly
09-12-2002, 19:46
Quote Originally posted by eat cold steel:
Alright I will put in a "lite" mode for people who don't like rebellions. Just don't complain about the game being too easy, after finishing it on turn 50.[/QUOTE]
dont be daft Steel - of course someone will complain.
eat cold steel
09-12-2002, 20:39
I certainly do not enjoy having people questioning my intelligence, but I do try to keep as many people happy as possible. I think I'll put it in as a cheat along the lines of .isuckandcannotfacerebels.
I explained the machanics so that you have an understanding of how it works and learn to avoid said rebellions. If you handle things right you wouldn't have any rebellions.
> Or are they here for you to gently and softly stroke their egos?
Well that's one of the reason I am here. In the CA are legends post MagyarKhans Cham forgot about my statue...
> crazymentalserioustoughnutter mode?
The only thing that can be done quickly is to give the AI bonus cash, and make them gang up on you earlier. Will that do?
Quote > crazymentalserioustoughnutter mode?
The only thing that can be done quickly is to give the AI bonus cash, and make them gang up on you earlier. Will that do?
[/QUOTE]
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Hehe yeah ya could do, having options are always favourable and if it doesn't take up time better spent elsewhere then by all means go for it. Like i say though, it isn't vital and i wouldn't whine if you didn't. Some of the better campaign players might enjoy a serious "headbanger" of a game mode! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I would just ignore some of the forum patrons' belligerent, immature attacks, suffice to say they couldn't have created what you have in the first place!
Ta
DOC
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=MizuDoc Otomo=
[This message has been edited by +DOC+ (edited 09-12-2002).]
DarknScaly
09-12-2002, 20:48
nah - better to just change the rate of building destruction to zero.
That way the AI provinces will keep building better units even where they change hands often... which, imo, is what makes the game too easy as you end up facing lower-tech troops too often.
With zero building destruction the challenge should be tougher.
NagatsukaShumi
09-12-2002, 20:58
This post shouldn't even be allowed.
These people work their butts off most of the week to make you games to play and all you do is bitch about a feature that makes sense. I mean, Total War is based on historic fact, no rebellions would pretty much kick that line in the nuts.
Creative Assembly are extremely kind to come on these boards and help out gamers, they don't have to come here at all, and if they didn't we wouldn't have a right to complain. CA come here and help us out, in return we should be nice to them.
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Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk
I don't know Akech, can't trust Mithrandir with the newbies, he may try and create a Miny Mith.-NagatsukaShumi
Arkatreides
09-12-2002, 20:59
One thing I find though is that it is absolutely impossible to get a ceasefire from the respawning nations. I wouldn't mind a bit of peaceful coexistence, but since they usually spawn in my own provinces we are immediately at war. (even if I leave them unguarded)
Could we have an option that asks us whether we want to abandon the attacked province peacefully ... or at least allow us to sign a ceasefire?
Quote Originally posted by DarknScaly:
nah - better to just change the rate of building destruction to zero.
That way the AI provinces will keep building better units even where they change hands often... which, imo, is what makes the game too easy as you end up facing lower-tech troops too often.
With zero building destruction the challenge should be tougher.[/QUOTE]
That's what i mentioned in another thread DD! ECS has already confirmed for the patch:
1. Siege times will be lengthened
2. 3 x support cost for besieging units
3. Attacker no longer gains income from besieged province
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
He did mention that building destruction could be put back to when the castle is taken instead of just the province, but that would probably not come with this patch.... he'd have to confirm that though?
As far a building destruction as a whole being removed he didn't mention anything on that. I do believe that some still should be damaged but certainly on a less frequent basis than it is now and only upon occupation of the entire province. To help the AI, castles and general troop producers could be made to be more resilient than other buildings.
Quote Originally posted by Arkatreides:
One thing I find though is that it is absolutely impossible to get a ceasefire from the respawning nations. I wouldn't mind a bit of peaceful coexistence, but since they usually spawn in my own provinces we are immediately at war. (even if I leave them unguarded)
Could we have an option that asks us whether we want to abandon the attacked province peacefully ... or at least allow us to sign a ceasefire?[/QUOTE]
That's quite a good idea!
Although from an economic point of view because they arrive with such huge stacks, unless they attack and pillage they'll probably have no/little finances for expanding, building tech, etc?! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
DarknScaly
09-12-2002, 21:08
Personally i think this is the biggest flaw in MTW. The rate of building destruction is too variable and too high overall.
I've conquered provinces and seen 6-9 buildings destroyed often, and even where the enemy have retreated without a fight... and as the AI simply cannot handle taxation properly in its own provinces, the number of repeat internal revolts it succumbs to means they sometimes dont crawl out of the dark ages.
The changes to the seige environment are nice - though i'd also like to see castle capacities raised also but my main concern ahs always been building destruction, not "when" it occurs (which in the bigger scope of things is largely irrelevant) but the degree of it.
I hate fighting through to palestine frm Mercia to find it nothing more than a Goat-Herders shed and a couple of cripples with pointy sticks defending it.
(Im aware theres the underlying issue of how the AI doesnt handle tax very well which can lead to all the internal strife, but they can avoid trying to fix that now by alleviating the effects of it)
Just a thought
[This message has been edited by DarknScaly (edited 09-12-2002).]
YEs, increased castle capacity is another thing that would be nice, however, if they don't adjust capacity, it is actually one thing we can do ourselves in the building_prod file.
You also have to alter the events.txt file too though otherwise it'll still state the same capacities. Unfortunately, when i tried this the siege times weren't affected and therefore increasing capacity at the moment simply serves as a bigger prison for the AI units (if you starve them out). I would like the siege times to be made un-hardcoded, but at least in the meantime ECS's changes should help.
By putting building destruction back to when the castle falls would help the AI out slightly since it would give the AI time to react to the loss of it's troop producing province. As it stands, as soon as the AI loses a province, whether he remain in the castle or not, the buildings are destroyed.
But yes, lowering the chances of building destruction would be most desirable from the Ai's perspective, especially the time and money involved in building some of the later techs and the rate and frequency the Ai succumbs to internal revolts thereby destroying them...!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by +DOC+ (edited 09-12-2002).]
Well what started out as the Worst Thread Ever, actually contains two cool ideas from ColdSteel - a super-tough mode where the AI gets cash and they gang up on you, and a super-easy mode without rebellions and assassins.
ECS...
You had me laughing for about 5 minutes with that cheat... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif And I seriously think you should include it. It would force the 'complainers' to face their own limitations. I simply love it!!!!
And super tough, go ahead! I won't play it I suppose, but others will. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
DD, I agree, less pillaging please.
I exploited that fact to my own gain in my current campaign (and the one before that).
I had a bustling trade going and nobody else had ships out in the Baltic (coming from England). So I checked the German coast and found it garrisoned with Peasants. I quickly gathered a rather light raiding force, some 500 troops of good quality so I could face any internal force the Germans had.
I went pillaging (didn't burn buildings though) the HRE for about 7 years avoiding all armies sent for me, until I broke out and rejoined my main armies.
The HRE fell apart only two turns after my leaving, completely shattered by Civil Wars and rebellions. I on the other hand had pillaged for about 12000 florins.
Though the HRE survived it could only produce Spearmen as their most advanced units.
It was fun playing Stehpen the Black Prince (I actually had Prince Stephen intimidating Edward hehe), but the result was shattering to the game.
When there is no contest, no force opposing or the enemy retreats out of the province (not castle), there should be no pillaging at all. All other situations should be perhaps 50% less pillaging.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
First, thanks a gain ECS for coming here and talking to us despite the peurile comments of some forum members.
Second, where is this explanation ECS gave of rebellion chances? I'd like to see it.
Finally, I think the whole rebellion thing is a GREAT design feature. EVERY other conquer-the-world type game I've played had a point-of-no-loss, after you've conquered about half the world you are just unstoppable and the rest of the game is a boring denoument. I think the main reason people criticize the system is that, let's face it, we're all sore losers. I, too, get REALLY mad when a big rebellion happens right when I think I'm doing so well.
ToranagaSama
09-13-2002, 00:30
ECS, in an attempt to make something constructive out of the insulting impertinence of "The Way", certain questions must be asked:
1) What is at the root of all the Rebellion/Respawning/Civil War whinning that The Way, suprisingly many experienced Shogun players, and long time Dojo members are engaged in?
2) Why is it, DESPITE the REPEATED explanations, descriptions, outlines from other more succesful forum members along with cold hard unequivocal info provided by none other than YOURSELF, the whinning persists and will persist (and I'm afraid ever after your patch)?
My thoughts are thus:
1) Documentation: It must be obvious to you and others at CA that the "manual" provided with the game only "begins" to cover the complexity and NUANCES of MTW. For example, the information you deemed to provide in a very recent previous thread is explained none to well in the manual. While it may not be necessary to be quite as specific "numerically" (120%, etc.) in the manual, the mechanics could have been spelled out succintly.
While we, Americans, especially appreciate the present manual, in light of the "pamphlet" we received with Shogun, one must consider the complexity of the strategic map. Now, consider that the present manual is the equal to the Shogun manual provided to everyone excepting us Americans, but that the complexity of the Strat Map, in comparison to Shogun, has been increased by a couple of hundred degrees. Yet, the manual HAS NOT, correspondingly, appreciated in instruction. I believe CA must come to the realization, that you may have (and continue to) created your Frankenstein (you are victims of your own success):
The Strat Map is now a game unto itself.
Consequently, Full, if not Complete, documentation aimed directly at this portion of the Total War package is needed. Figure, that quite a number of Total War players "auto-resolve" the battles; and this percentage may continue to grow as the Strategic "Game" is further improved (for TW3). In other words, if you create a Strategic "Game" near the equal of Civilization 2/3 and/or EU, logic dictates documention to be commensurate. Compare the Civ 2 manual (which is what I have) to MTW's manual---the word pamphlet comes to mind again. One could also consider for comparison EU. EU's manual, in size, may dwarf MTW's manual, though I'd be loathed to actually considered it to be a manual at all. More akin to a fantasy novel (snipe at EU). I've not seen EU2's manual.
This can be corrected to large extent by, subsequently, providing Full (if not complete) documentation ONLINE! CA may have to dig into your own pockets for this, but its the correct thing to do; AND an investment in Good Will. Remember negative experiences, turn into negative talk, negative talk turns into negative sales!
2) Demo/Tutorial: Again, it is MORE than obvious that neither addresses in any way the complexities and nuances of MTW, by MTW I'm speaking of the "Strategic" Game and will focus solely upon the Strategic for the remainder of this exercise.
Some of the shock and static concerning Rebellions\Respawning\Civil War [R\R\CW] may have been lessened with a Tutorial Exercise directly related to RRCW. Something along the lines of, this is how to prevent R\R\CW, try it this way. The basic "skill" in dealing with RRCWs may have been attained prior to engaging in a full compaign.
It may be a good idea to create this tutorial, patch it into the game so at the very least, new players who purchase the game may install, patch, and then start with the Tutorial. Something to be considered.
3) Marketing: One outstanding behaviour observation to be gleaned from this forum, is that MANY experienced Shogun players (myself included initially) began play with MTW at the "Expert" difficulty. (Is this something that CA expected? I presume not.) What does this say? a) The best, most experienced and knowlegeable Shogun players were EXPECTING gameplay to VERY much be a Shogun experience (with a new face). They did not expect such a challenging experience AND did not expect to be challenged in the particular manner(s) that MTW does in relation to Shogun. This is obviously, a communication/Marketing issue. What MTW was all about didn't get communicated to those MOST interested in MTW. [Somebody call a meeting!] The reason that so many people thought starting at Expert needs to be examined.
One other thing re marketing which is really an important aside. In the weeks and days prior to the release of MTW, in my American experience and I noted similar experiences posted to this forum (one of which I recall was French in origin), I spoke to a few different employees at Game software stores, Electronic Boutique and Software Etc. I specifically recall) and NONE, I do mean NONE of them had heard of MTW, had a clue of what it was, nor any idea when it was to be released. This was over a period of 6 weeks to 24 hours prior to the American release. If this were my business I wouldn't find this acceptable. [Somebody call Activision and set up a meeting!] I digress.
4) Linear Progression (or whatever the proper term): Linear Progression may needed to be employed in future versions of the Total War series. As noted above, despite what one's ego may dictate, as long as CA does it's job so superbly, its not a good idea to have folks, despite whatever prior game experience, starting at EXPERT!!!! Perhaps starting at Normal s/b a default setting with the capability to notch down to Easy for complete newbies. Something to be considered; as what are the worst consequences?? Folks saying that Normal is too easy, and I want to progress faster. Not exactly a negative experience and Hard and Harder is right around the corner (or is that the next turn). This would preclude folks from the negative experience of starting at a difficulty they are not ready for and coming back and whinning that, in essence, the game isn't playing the way they expected, is full of bugs, and the devs must be looney for doing this or that. The true fact is that these are lousy MTW players playing at a level that is way beyond them, BUT how do you prove this????? [See below]
The intensify of the whinning would have been lessend if everyone had started at Normal.
5) [I]Multiplay Campaigns: Last, but not least, and my particular whine! Again lets look to the root of an issue. In every game, question arises regarding what technique, strategy and/or tactic is best. How is this hashed out? How do the best strats/tactis rise to the top and the bogus fall away? How are the true players determined and the fakers exposed? There's only one way and that way is on the field of battle. There's about 10 of us who really get the Strat Map play. ECS has provided the real information to prove our theories, but the majority of the community refuses to take their medicine and one has resorted to verbablly assaulting ECS!!!
CA dudes, the Sht's laying in your laps, give us MP Campaigns (however simplistic) and I, personally, will whip their asses for you!!! These whinners think RRCWs are bogus, these same whinners wouldn't last 50 turns against me and a few others (it would appear). CA dudes, you've left your Genius exposed to idiots!! to those who would be the weakest of Strategic players.
Dudes, I implore you, no I begging you, crap I'm on my knees ready to....ahhh....ahhh....maybe not that!!!!, back to begging, PLEASE give us MP Campaigns. Its the ONLY way to determine, for example, if RRCW are properly implemented or not. Listening to whinners who insult your genius is not the way.
In MP one either adapts and/or innovates or dies a quiet death. His whinning to be heard no more. There just isn't any argument in losing and the proof is in the winning.
I believe that caving on this RRCW issue examples how lack of MP Campaigns is/will directly inhibit the present/future development of the Total War series. Your best work will be subject to ridiculous whinning; your best people will become discontented; the whinning public will promote their negative experiences (that game sucks!); negative experiences will translate to lost sales; hmmmmm.....this sounds just like a game of MTW....empires are collasping....more spies...more spies.... [Directive from on High...Get this done before we're all out on the street!]
Quote Originally posted by eat cold steel:
[B]I certainly do not enjoy having people questioning my intelligence, but I do try to keep as many people happy as possible.
[/QUOTE]
Make meeee happy won't you.
Quote
I think I'll put it in as a cheat along the lines of .isuckandcannotfacerebels.
[/QUOTE]
Good one! Touche.
Quote
I explained the machanics so that you have an understanding of how it works and learn to avoid said rebellions. If you handle things right you wouldn't have any rebellions.
[/QUOTE]
Ahem....once more....only a MP Campaign will solve this with finality.
Quote
> Or are they here for you to gently and softly stroke their egos?
[/QUOTE]
Gimme MP Campaigns, and I know a beautiful blond who I'm certain I can convince to stroke more than your egos!
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If you can't controle your Rebels then you just plain Suck.
ToranagaSama
09-13-2002, 00:39
Here's the thread where ECS informs the world in a single paragraph how Rebellions and Respawning works. Even touches upon Civil Wars.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001520.html
maybe he should play online a find a challenge http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
there are some here that are tougher than the computer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Gregoshi
09-13-2002, 01:32
Good point about documentation ToranagaSama. However, I also wonder how many of us Shoggy vets just kinda skimmed the manual before playing? I did a "light" read before playing and have just recently gone back for a closer study. Hmmm, seems I missed some things, like piety and generals. From now on I'll be looking at more than acumen before I give a title to a general. Other things in the documentation were clear after some game experience, but not so clear on the first reading.
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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon
[This message has been edited by Gregoshi (edited 09-12-2002).]
sassbarman
09-13-2002, 01:46
I thought the returning heir thing was great when I first saw it in STW:MI and I still like it now. I however do agree with the idea that a spy in a province where a returning heir shows up should give you some sort of heads up first, maybe a year or two in advance depending on his valour.
ToranagaSama
09-13-2002, 02:14
Quote Originally posted by macajor:
maybe he should play online a find a challenge http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
there are some here that are tougher than the computer http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif[/QUOTE]
What exactly are you trying to say? That they've implemented Multiplay Campaigns and I've missed it??
Seriously, I don't find the RT Tactical aspect, by itself, very compelling w/o the context of the Strategic Map.
Frankly, the online experience is more based upon discovering the "quirks" among the tactical units and exploiting said quirks---VERY CHALLENGING!---than upon developing and implementing tactics.
Armies consisting of 50% archers and monks and whatnot. How realistic is thattt?
For goodness sakes you MPers call it camping when someone on defense sits atop a hill and waits to be attacked!!!
I don't believe I've heard the term "camping" in relation to any other RTS game. Sorta belies the mentality to me---just 1st Person Shooting in another guise. Thanks but no thanks.
Soapyfrog
09-13-2002, 02:21
He's got a point, the tactical battles, while interesting, are slightly lacking wiithout the larger context of a campaign.
How you fight the tactical battle would change dramatically if their are strategic consequences depending upon your performance.
MP campaign!! Even the most rudimentary implementation would be SO WELCOME!!!
Quote Originally posted by ToranagaSama:
I don't believe I've heard the term "camping" in relation to any other RTS game. Sorta belies the mentality to me---[/QUOTE]
No, you are right there is no camping in other RTS's but there are Turtles, which is basically the same thing, give or take training units and that.
Quote Originally posted by sassbarman:
I however do agree with the idea that a spy in a province where a returning heir shows up should give you some sort of heads up first, maybe a year or two in advance depending on his valour.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed it would be nice to know as often the forces one can gather, even one year in advance are simply not enough, when faced with the crazy and powerful armies that comes with the new king.
A single year is ok if you have a spy there who has been there for some time.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
ToranagaSama
09-13-2002, 03:28
OK, gotta ask, what O what is a Turtle??
Someone slow to attack?
One interesting thing re STW and MTW and RTS games, I think for the first time with the Total War games a "defensive" player finally has a chance, because TW doesn't have a way to Rush; but like I said you'll call him a Camper.
[This message has been edited by ToranagaSama (edited 09-12-2002).]
Soapyfrog
09-13-2002, 03:43
Turtling is fatal in most RTS's.
In TW, being on the defence is an ADVANTAGE.
The reason for this is resources. In TW, the attackr should always have a florin advantage, otherwise, all things being equal he will suffere defeat.
Hi! What do you think of “Main menu”->Options->Game->”Realistic” check box? Will it solve the Huge and unrealistic rebellions and 5 full stacks of genetically engineered enemy troops?
It comes down to:
1. The troops (including rebels) who appear in a province must be able to be produced in the rebel province.
2. Historically rebellions ware started by existing armies, which ware not payed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif and/or rebellious generals. E.g. Your own armies shall rebel + a bit of locals. The peasants ware generally mowed down by the knights.
3. The troops in any province should be fed from the farm (or farm + trade) income in THIS province. The army logistics was invented after the Creamalin war 1851 and the armies suffered higher losses from hunger and disease than from combat. E.g. Napoleon in Russia. If your invade a province army is bigger than can be supported it will fight the battle, BUT next year you will loose all troops you cannot feed.
I think that a ”Realistic” check box will make me and a lot of realistic guys happy, while keeping the crack players happy as well.
Ah, ToranagaSama, you seek my wisdom. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Well, a Turtle is a player that quickly builds a lot of defensive structures (remember how other RTS's work http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif) and then either hoard a lot of troops to roll over the enemy, or tech like a madman to get better troops fast.
But luckily in the Total Wars even outclassed armies can actually win, even when not outnumbering the enemy.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
I think the best point made in this thread is that the campaign map is now a game unto itself. It is no longer a checkers board used to move your armies into battle with other armies like in STW. It is much more a chess board and contains many complexities not found in STW.
I, too, sometimes grow weary of the micromanagement and complexities, but I'd rather they be there for the days I feel like micromanaging and conquering the Medieval world since the other days I can just play Custom Battle or multiplayer.
[This message has been edited by JRock (edited 09-12-2002).]
Perec_Dojo
09-13-2002, 05:50
The problem people seem to have with the respawning factions is their justifiable incredulity at seeing super stacks of soldiers accompanying the upstart heir. Where did they get these troops, you wonder, and how did they mass in one of my own territories without my knowledge?
For my own part, while I like the respawning factions feature, it offends my sense of proportion and logic of events. So how about this: Instead of having the factions soldiers appear, they are drawn (and in smaller numbers) from your own generals and troops in the surrounding provinces. You could balance this effect so as not to make it entirely crippling, but a good challenge nonetheless. Then there would be a definite place for the troops to have come from. The Prince trying to reclaim his ancestral home convinced the people and soldiers surrounding to support his claim.
Perec_Dojo,
That seems like a very good idea to me to draw the rebel army from the loyal units, and the crusades already work that way so the programming to do it is already there.
KukriKhan
09-13-2002, 07:50
Quote Originally posted by JRock:
I think the best point made in this thread is that the campaign map is now a game unto itself. It is no longer a checkers board used to move your armies into battle with other armies like in STW. It is much more a chess board and contains many complexities not found in STW.
[This message has been edited by JRock (edited 09-12-2002).][/QUOTE]
A-MEN! Brother Rock. For me STW Campaigns were merely a way to get to the battles, where the real meat lay, with some sense of continuity.
In MTW, it's the other way 'round: I fight battles to get back to the consequences (of that battle) in the Campaign. For this old gamer, a MUCH more pleasureable SP experience.
Can't hardly wait 'til they figure out how to deploy Campaign MP in TWIII or IV (I know it's a lost cause now, but I bet they're listening) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.
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https://jimcee.homestead.com/files/bowman2_k_5.gif
Quote Originally posted by TheWay:
Let me address the bevy and parade of buffons, sycophants and freaks who have replied to my post.[/QUOTE]
The only buffoon here is the original poster.
Quote Dear Grifman, stop jaw jaw and paw paw yourself. While I have colourful language, I have pointed out a very real concern.[/QUOTE]
Your language isn't "colorful", it's insulting. From your posts, you seem consistently unable to express yourself in a mature adult manner.
Quote I dont mind you calling me idiot, but at least address my reasoning.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I suspect you're pretty used to it on a regular basis in your life. And I will respond to concerns expressed in a mature manner - not expressed those expressed as a whiny child. Grow up some, learn to express yourself as an adult and we can talk.
Quote And are developers little fairy, fragile creatures to be tissue wrapped and stored in porcelain? LOL. Take your retard medicine.[/QUOTE]
No, but they are due respect just like any other human being. You also fail to understand - yours is one post - but what if a dozen people acted as immaturely as you do. As a developer, I would get tired of it pretty quickly and not respond. Your post is a perfect example of the reason many developers don't post regularly on game boards. They don't care to be insulted or mocked on a regular basis. As for my "retard medicine", I'll take mine if you get take the pacifier out of your mouth, take the diapers off and put some adult clothing on, and act like your not a child. Deal?
Grifman
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-13-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-13-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-13-2002).]
Turtle is somebody who builds way too many defenses. In games like Warcraft3 that are more team-oriented, having one for a teammate will cause you to bang your head against your desk especially since defenses are harder to destroy compared to Starcraft. Turtling is not a very bad strategy in MTW as there are no resources to be gathered in tactical mode.
Further to Grif’s comments http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Quote Originally posted by TheWay:
"..until our crotches bulge, shimmy and quiver in that fantasy night club of yours"[/QUOTE] Crotches..night clubs.. WTF!!
Quote TheWay:
"... bevy and parade of buffons, sycophants and freaks"[/QUOTE] Ooooww...now you have definitely clinched the debate with that piece of Ad Hominem! Quote "Take your retard medicine."[/QUOTE]!!
Confucius once say "A closed mouth gather no feet" May I suggest you heed these words. I would hasitaguess that you will more readily find the "buffoon", "sycophanta" and "freak" in the mirror than at any other locale.
Quote TheWay:
"I don’t mind you calling me idiot but at least address my reasoning"[/QUOTE]
I can only see unsubstantiated opinion and slander..your post is bereft of this so-called "reasoning"...idiot! Quote "Get with the program"!![/QUOTE]
Quote TheWay:
"No matter how you defend the cleverness of your construct"[/QUOTE]
Quote "You can defend ...your intelligence...all you want"[/QUOTE] all I see is circumlocutory crap. This forum is for constructive discussion not for malcontent venting.
Quote "Geddit?"[/QUOTE] !!?
Belligerent bastard
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
[This message has been edited by PSYCHO (edited 09-13-2002).]
LOL, this post has gone in a full circle... started off poor, with mindless juvenile disparaging comments then prospered with some very interesting posts and ideas in the middle and unfortunately ended with a barrage of insults (albeit well-deserved)!
I just hope Eat Cold Steel has the patience to wade through the drivel and extract the useful!
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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=MizuDoc Otomo=
It has been just like the Roman Empire. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Hello, I see its you again Grifman. World class dunce.
>>No, but they are due respect just like any other human being. You also fail to understand - yours is one post - but what if a dozen people acted as immaturely as you do.
Of course. I did praise the game as great didn't I? What I found highly annoying was the way Eat Cold Steel countered a highly verifiable fact with a mental construct.
As an aside, I think computer game programming is a great job, although programming in general should be reserved for groping ninnies. Like you. *SMILES*
>>As for my "retard medicine", I'll take mine
You don't read computer magazines do you?
And don't get out much? What's under your bed, Grifman?
Plus this thread had a real good effect didnt it. Its much more readable *anyway* than the hand-holding *puke* going on in the other threads.
Tell me Psycho, does anybody find you entertaining, besides your mother? Capering buffon.
>>I see is circumlocutory crap. This forum is for constructive discussion not for malcontent venting.
You're for handholding and censorship, that's for sure.
>>Belligerent bastard
Not halfway like your face mate. Did someone throw in a monkey wrench at your birth?
>>Questionable point! Lousy presentation!
And I have to question your intelligence.
Gregoshi,
where did you learn to tie developers' shoelaces with your teeth?
GilJaysmith
09-13-2002, 18:46
TheWay,
While you did have an issue with gameplay, please understand that the way you initially phrased it came across as insulting. ECS was describing the gameplay mechanic as he implemented it. The design and the implementation are two different things; insulting him personally for the design was unjustified, let alone uncalled-for.
If you want to reiterate your point, without questioning anyone's intelligence, please start a new thread or join in one of the other many threads about this topic - some of which have raised ways to address rebellions or even avoid them.
And please keep it polite. This isn't because developers are porcelain, precious, or special: it's because rudeness gets in the way of people understanding or caring about your point, irrespective of its legitimacy. If you can't or won't do this, I'm sure we're all capable of ignoring you from this point on.
I can't see the point in this particular thread continuing.
Gil ~ CA
ToranagaSama
09-13-2002, 19:42
Brilliant, simply brilliant idea!!
NagatsukaShumi
09-13-2002, 20:23
See, CA are the real Emissaries, their skills in peace keeping and all....
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Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk
I don't know Akech, can't trust Mithrandir with the newbies, he may try and create a Miny Mith.-NagatsukaShumi
Quote Originally posted by TheWay:
[B]
Hello, I see its you again Grifman. World class dunce.[/QUOTE]
Ah, the child speaks once again . . .
Quote Of course. I did praise the game as great didn't I? What I found highly annoying was the way Eat Cold Steel countered a highly verifiable fact with a mental construct.[/QUOTE]
So you praised the game - and insulted one of the programmers. Does that make you even? Disagree if you wish with his response - childish insults were not called for.
Quote As an aside, I think computer game programming is a great job, although programming in general should be reserved for groping ninnies. Like you. *SMILES*[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but the only one groping here is you. Trying to grope like acting as adult. Do your parents know you are on the computer, son?
Quote You don't read computer magazines do you? And don't get out much? What's under your bed, Grifman?[/QUOTE]
Ah, this makes sense now. Since your parents probably don't let you leave your room due to your immaturity, the only way you can communicate in via the Internet. And as you indicate above, like most children, you have a fixation with monsters and other such creatures under you bed. Don't worry, little Way, it will be all right - nothing's gonna get you from under your bed . . .
Quote Plus this thread had a real good effect didnt it. Its much more readable *anyway* than the hand-holding *puke* going on in the other threads.[/QUOTE]
Yes, again the allusions to childish activities. Way is incapable of digesting normal adult conversation, hence his need to puke when the vocabulary levels exceed his grasp - which from the content of his posts, is a regular event.
I suggest getting your sippy cup, filling it with apple juice and sitting quietly in the corner while adults discuss adult things. We'll wake you when your nap time is over.
Grifman
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-14-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-14-2002).]
TheWay...pffff...was that a repsonse!? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Quote Originally posted by TheWay:
...your mother? ...Capering buffon..not halfway like your face ... Did someone throw in a monkey wrench at your birth?[/QUOTE]
Grif, I feel any attempt at dialogue is a waste of effort here.
I think someone has being teaching an empty headed parot some abuse and left their new voice recognition unit on for kicks! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
...the joke is on us my friend :lol
Cheers
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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO
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