View Full Version : Best (Affordable) Wine
Boyar Son
11-17-2007, 23:55
Thanksgiving is coming up now, and being American I dont know crap about wine :p
So tell me wine entusiasts, what good (affordable) wine can you recommend (and probably sells in MIA).
oh and the wine I bought is "Gato Negro"... is this a good one or is it cheap peasant drink?
Afonso I of Portugal
11-18-2007, 00:36
Thanksgiving is coming up now, and being American I dont know crap about wine :p
So tell me wine entusiasts, what good (affordable) wine can you recommend (and probably sells in MIA).
oh and the wine I bought is "Gato Negro"... is this a good one or is it cheap peasant drink?
Never heard before about this brand "Gato Negro", but in Spanish and Portuguese it means "Black Cat"! :laugh4:
For Portuguese wines try search this brands:
- Borba;
- Monsaraz;
- Alabastro;
- Porta da Ravessa;
- Convento da Vila;
- Esporão;
- Reguengos;
- Aveleda;
- Vidigueira;
- Terras de Xisto;
- Terras D'El Rei;
- Lagoa;
- Afonso III;
- Cartaxo;
- Dão;
- Adega de Pegões;
(after dinner)
- Oporto;
- Mateus Rosé;
King Henry V
11-18-2007, 00:39
Chateau Lafite, 1899. :toff:
I've just finished a south african wine called 'Altyd Somer', it was quite agreeable.:yes:
Kekvit Irae
11-18-2007, 02:31
Raspberry Serenade, from Shenandoah Vineyards in Virginia. :loveg:
Proletariat
11-18-2007, 02:43
Anything Boone's Farm.
Louis VI the Fat
11-18-2007, 03:23
Boone's FarmHey, interesting, never heard of...
*checks the internet*
'Boone's Farm is currently available in a variety of flavors including: apple blossom, blue Hawaiian, fuzzy navel, mango grove, melon ball, orange hurricane, snow creek berry, strawberry daiquiri, strawberry margarita, sangria, strawberry hill, wild island, and watermelon. Boone's farm beverages are often located in the cold box area of convenient stores'.
:inquisitive:
~:confused:
:beam:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
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Vladimir
11-18-2007, 03:56
Ahh, the French. :shame:
:laugh4:
I must admit though I was tingling with anticipation when I saw who posted after the Boone's Farm recommendation. Check out the beer thread and stick it to the Frenchmen good!
IrishArmenian
11-18-2007, 04:50
The cheapest!
In all seriousness, I am no wine afficionado, but I'll have whatever the Kartlians make! Those Georgians know how to do it!
I'm not very expensive and I can wine a whole evening for you. :stupido2:
Kekvit Irae
11-18-2007, 06:20
Anything Boone's Farm.
Good old Boone's Farm. I dared my roommate to a drinking contest. One large bottle of apple wine for each of us, and the objective was to guzzle it as fast as we could.
Within about 15 seconds, I finished off the bottle whereas my roommate barely started on hers. I was the victor, and man was I paying for it. 15 minutes later, I was unconscious on the floor. Good times.
:loveg:
Gato Negro is excellent, won quite few awards. It's a south american wine so it's a bit heavy, not a very good dining wine imho. When eating get something more light, like a shiraz. Can't go wrong with ausi wine.
Ser Clegane
11-18-2007, 10:30
Gato Negro is excellent, won quite few awards. It's a south american wine so it's a bit heavy, not a very good dining wine imho. When eating get something more light, like a shiraz. Can't go wrong with ausi wine.
What he said - Gato Negro seems to be a good solid Chilean (http://www.globalwinespirits.com/wx/de-SANPEDRO/PORTAL.INDEX) .
Would not necessarily say that it will be to heavy for diner - depends what you are going to have for diner (I certainly would not say that Australian is much lighter - even the Shiraz).
I'd expect that European wines might be a bit expensive in the US (especially given the current exchange rates) - but IMO you cannot really do anything wrong with a wine from Antinori (http://www.antinori.it/eng/vini/corpo_vini.php#) (e.g. the "Villa Antinori") which should probably be available in the US.
If you look for a US wine - Robert Mondavi (http://www.mondavi.com/landing.htm?month=9&day=18&year=1970) is usually a decent choice (definitely among those that should be easily available in shops). Perhaps try a Pinot Noir instead of the more common Carbernet or Merlot (assuming you are going for a red)
Of course what you get will largely depend on your budget ~;) but at least Mondavi covers quite a range there.
Good luck ~:)
Best dining wine is a beaujolais nouveau, easy to drink and it doesn't get in the way of your dinner, light on alcohol, perfect. It isn't for everyone, it's a very young wine and you have to get used to the taste, and it's restricted to the season.
Ser Clegane
11-18-2007, 15:14
Best dining wine is a beaujolais nouveau,
Noooo...
:drama2:
(j/k)
Well I have to agree it doesn't really work with eisbein ~;)
(dinner)wine shouldn't be too intrusive imho.
edyzmedieval
11-18-2007, 17:24
Chateau Lafite, 1899. :toff:
You call that affordable?
Reverend Joe
11-18-2007, 21:15
Hmm...
Could anyone recommend a good, affordable Bordeaux wine? Preferably red, with a pretty neutral flavor.
Adrian II
11-18-2007, 22:13
Perhaps try a Pinot Noir instead of the more common Carbernet or Merlot (assuming you are going for a red).Speaking of Pinot Noir, why not stick to Burgundy? It doesn't have to be a Grand Cru, and I suppose the village variety is affordable in the U.S. just as well. Couple it with a slice of Fourme D'Ambert (the cheese Louis always uses to buy my vote in forum polls) and let the bon temps rouler.
Pinot noir is a grape not a area, they use them it in the us as well.
Adrian II
11-18-2007, 22:23
Pinot noir is a grape not a area, they use them it in the us as well.Thank you, I knew that. Pinot Noir is the Burgundy grape par excellence though.
Ser Clegane
11-18-2007, 22:46
Speaking of Pinot Noir, why not stick to Burgundy? It doesn't have to be a Grand Cru, and I suppose the village variety is affordable in the U.S. just as well. Couple it with a slice of Fourme D'Ambert (the cheese Louis always uses to buy my vote in forum polls) and let the bon temps rouler.
And the Burgundy/Pinot Noir will go pretty well with the Thanksgiving turkey :2thumbsup:
Louis VI the Fat
11-18-2007, 22:57
And the Burgundy/Pinot Noir will go pretty well with the Thanksgiving turkey But does it go with the ketchup? I'd stick with the Orange Hurricane. Yummie with icecubes. :2thumbsup:
Ser Clegane
11-18-2007, 23:00
But does it go with the ketchup?
Ahh ... don't underestimate a nicely prepared Thanksgiving turkey in the US :yes:
Buy some argentinian wine.
Papewaio
11-19-2007, 00:31
Wines, cheeses, coffee, chocolates... all have many flavours and combinations.
So the best way in the long term is try, try, try. Nothing beats experience.
Now for some local promotion... go New Zealand wine from the Marlborough region or Australian from Western Australia (Margaret river) or from South Australia (produces about 40% of Australia's wine so it will have quite a range).
KukriKhan
11-19-2007, 14:26
Lotsa folks think: turkey = white meat, = white wine. But they forget all the other foods often served. If you're having the traditional
stuffing
cranberry sauce
sweet potato/yam
giblet gravy
brussel sprouts,
think: red. You want something with sufficient body (alcoholic strength) to stand up to that variety of tastes, while not strong enough to vanquish them. You want a partnership, not a duel. Not too fruity or sweet (which will make your veggies taste bitter), with enough acid to cut through turkey fat (turning the yukky "fat" taste in your mouth to "mmm, juice" taste instead).
In Miami, for 'cheap' look for 1998 Borsao, Campo de Borja, at about $5 a bottle. Consumed on its own without food, it's kinda dry-ish (not a bad thing); however, it comes to life with the kind of "heavy" foods you're probably planning, taking on a sort of strawberry-ish tone, finishing up with a tiny hint of cedar. I think you'd like it.
If you're still undecided after all our advice, go for almost any supermarket-brand Chianti, the all-purpose foot-soldier of wine for American cuisine.
If you're still undecided after all our advice, go for almost any supermarket-brand Chianti, the all-purpose foot-soldier of wine for American cuisine.
I second that. An excellent Italian wine.
If you have the extra money look for Chianti Classico Reserva. It's around a $20 bottle wine where I live.
Papewaio
11-19-2007, 23:21
Chianti is very good in stews.
Here is a list of most of the bottles I have had this year. I would paste it into the post, but it's really long and I don't have time to edit it down. The ones with (DA) next to them are my bottles. A few of those were not that great, but the vast majority were entirely decent and a good drink. In addition, the list may be useful to you because probably 80% cost between $10 and $15 dollars.
http://dpbwiki.digitalfreaks.org/index.php/52-Wine
Personally, for a typical American Thanksgiving meal, I would recommend a Malbec or a Pinot. Perhaps a Syrah or a Bordeaux if you are feeling more adventurous. Of course, you can also never go wrong with a good champagne. Gloria Ferrer (Sonoma) makes some very drinkable 'sparkling wines' for under $20.
Boyar Son
11-21-2007, 04:01
awesome keep 'em coming
Thanks guys! any specific place in miami beach that sells 20-40 $$ wine?
or any good stuff at all?
Don Corleone
11-21-2007, 04:14
There's a Chilean red, called "Two brothers" Tattoo something that's readlly good. I like Yellowtail too. Their Shiraz and Chardonay are really good.
awesome keep 'em coming
Thanks guys! any specific place in miami beach that sells 20-40 $$ wine?
or any good stuff at all?
In that pricerange? A good wine should cost about 7 a 8 dollar, a really good one 15. The difference in quality between those and the ones that go for 40 is minimal.
Ser Clegane
11-21-2007, 13:34
The difference in quality between those and the ones that go for 40 is minimal.
I beg to differ - while you certainly cannot generalize that a 40$ wine will automatically be better than a 15$ wine (you can expect some disappointments in the former category and some very pleasant surprises in the latter), on average you will IMHO often see quite a difference between the two segments - and there are certain types of wines you simply will not get for 15$
Don't get me wrong - the large majority of the wines Mrs. Clegane and myself consume at home falls into the 7-15 EUR category and you will find lots of good stuff in this range, but for a nice diner or for guests we sometimes also go into the 25-40 EUR range, and usually there is a significant difference (whether you feel that this difference is worth the additional money is of course another question that each person can only answer individually)
Well of course there is a difference, but the difference is bigger the other way around, you have to consider the bottling process and transport costs. Personally, I think it is quite hard to find a really bad wine, even among the extremily cheap, a bottle costing 4 euro will get you good wine. Go below that and the difference is much more dramatic but it isn't terrible in any way. Very good quality costs a lot, but to the layman it doesn't mean that much, it's for restaurants that have a good wine that goes well with a particular dish, have to be pretty knowledgable about the whole palet to cash in on that quality.
Ser Clegane
11-21-2007, 14:01
Very good quality costs a lot, but to the layman it doesn't mean that much,
I agree with that (Hoping that it does not come across as snobby ~;))
Getting to wines in the 25-40 EUR range was a slow process for us (a process that spoiled us for the <4EUR category I have to admit - usually I then prefer a decent beer) and if you you rarely drink wine I would not necessarily recommend a 30 EUR wine.
but the difference is bigger the other way around
True - going from 3-5EUR to 15EUR usually means really a huge difference in quality
Adrian II
11-21-2007, 14:21
Chianti is very good in stews.It depends on the Chianti, and the difference is not as gratuitous as it seems. The entire region around Florence has been awarded the highest quality DOCG certificate, but this applies to the good old Classico that goes well with most any food as well as to supermarket chiantis that aren't worth the stew you pour them into. I don't know how this works out in te U.S. but in Italy the difference is marked. I once rented a villa in the hills outside Florence. Whilst there I bought some bottles of Chianti Classico off a wine castle in the neighbourhood and it turned out to be the Chianti to end all Chiantis. You don't know what's happening to your taste buds when you drink the stuff after having beed used, like yours truly, to the supermarket variety.
Oh and Ser, I agree that $25 wines really pay off on the first few bottles only, but after that, ehm.. let me put it this way, as a student I have drank Algerian landwine straight from the oil tanker in which it had been transported to Europe and it hurt me none... :dizzy2: :laugh4:
and if you you rarely drink wine I would not necessarily recommend a 30 EUR wine.
Well I drink 2 a 3 glasses of wine a day so 4 euro sounds about fine to me. Could go for the 2 euro bottles that are actually pretty decent but I rather pay a bit more for something better.
Ser Clegane
11-21-2007, 14:57
Well I drink 2 a 3 glasses of wine a day so 4 euro sounds about fine to me. Could go for the 2 euro bottles that are actually pretty decent but I rather pay a bit more for something better.
OK - with my comment I rather wanted to express that it probably makes more sense (and is more enjoyable) to go to the 30EUR segment after you tried and enjoyed the not so expensive wines instead of skipping these and going straight to the expensive ones (unless you have a fat wallet of course :laugh4: ).
I just was not sure how to make this point without sounding patronizing...
For 2-3 glasses/day I personally would not go to the 10-15EUR range either (that would hurt my budget a bit too much ~;)) - usually I am more the beer during the week and 1-2 bottles of nice wine for the weekend type.
I just was not sure how to make this point without sounding patronizing...
Oh don't worry you weren't, of course an expensive wine is better. I come from a rather picky family when it comes down to that kind of stuff, I know the difference between good and exquisite all too well. But I can't exactly keep up with the spending patern of my mom, and it is indeed how you experience what you get back for the extra cash. Personally I don't think it's worth it but I like the occasional splash of decadence myselve, but with me that translates into single-malt whisky.
Stalin's Tears - cheapest polish fruit wine. Its taste if loved by all junkies :)
Price 0,75 Euro
OK, so I'm not exactly a wino^H^H^H^H snob^H^H^H^H^H^H I mean afficionado, but...
If you've never heard of "Two buck chuck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Shaw_wine)", I wholeheartedly recommend you give it a shot. It's available through Trader Joe's, if there's one near you. It's nothing spectacular, but it is very good (the merlot was excellent) for being a 2/3/4$ bottle of wine. We literally bought 4 cases of it about 3 years ago when we heard about it, and it was only about $140 for the lot and it lasted us good while. Some people thumb their noses at it, I say their loss, it's an exellent value, drinks like a 30-40$ bottle (in my experience), and you cannot beat the price with a stick.
Cheers and happy eat-ourselves-stupid day!
:balloon2:
I beg to differ - while you certainly cannot generalize that a 40$ wine will automatically be better than a 15$ wine (you can expect some disappointments in the former category and some very pleasant surprises in the latter), on average you will IMHO often see quite a difference between the two segments - and there are certain types of wines you simply will not get for 15$
I agree, there is a significant difference. $40 bottles of wine are pretty much guaranteed to be good. The price is a reflection of the fact that they come from well-established winemakers who have gained a reputation for producing consistently good bottles. Pretty much the only time you will get a 'bad' $40 bottle is if it is corked or otherwise physically spoiled, or it just doesn't suit your palette (which is not really the fault of the wine).
In contrast, bottles under $20 are far less certain. They tend to come from newer winemakers or vineyards that have not yet proven themselves. They produce a mix of various qualities and as a result no one can really predict whether their new vintages are going to be any good at all. As a result, you are far more likely to stumble across poor quality wines in this price range. That does NOT mean that there are not many, many excellent wines at that price range. Instead, it means that you have to do your homework to make sure you're not getting plonk. The cheaper you get, particularly under $15 and $10, the smaller the percentage of good quality wines amongst the masses, and thus the greater likelihood that you will get a bad bottle if you do not know what you are buying.
Price is also influenced by the amount of time the wine has to be laid down before it is put up for sale. Some wines, especially 'heavies' like Cabernet, need several years to mature before they become truly drinkable. If you drink them too early, they won't taste very good. Thus, wineries and wholesalers will store them for several years before releasing them to the market. This drives up the price, simply due to the cost of storing thousands of gallons of liquid in a climate controlled environment for multiple years. Thus, it is much harder to find a truly good Cabernet for under $20 than it is to find a truly good Sauvignon.
When in doubt, just ask someone, be it an employee in a wine store or a sommelier. They exist to make your life easier, so don't be shy about asking. I have never received a rude response when I have done so, and sommeliers in particular are delightful to talk to. It takes a lot of time and money to be able to be able to know enough labels to pick out a good wine in any store and off of any menu you come across. We all have to start somewhere and that place is by learning from others who already know.
Ser Clegane
11-21-2007, 17:52
It takes a lot of time and money to be able to be able to know enough labels to pick out a good wine in any store and off of any menu you come across. We all have to start somewhere and that place is by learning from others who already know.
The good thing is that this process is actually quite some fun :2thumbsup: :barrel:
Despite my earlier comment that was meant to show my complete lack of knowledge(drank wine two, maybe three time in my life), it actually got me quite interested, so much that I broke my iron "no alcohol in Husi's place"-rule today and bought a bottle of Californian wine at the supermarket. Well, at least it says California on it, it cost only around 3EUR and it was apparently the Supermarket's recommendation.
Only problem was, they had four different styles so I had to choose one. :dizzy2:
"Cabernet Sauvignon" sounded quite...french (=good) so I went with that one. :2thumbsup:
Well, that one's for today, tomorrow I can try another one and so on. :sweatdrop:
Just kidding, hope it will last for a while but not too long either. :beam:
Louis VI the Fat
11-21-2007, 19:55
Okay. Best affordable wine. That's not the same as best wine, or even best value for money. I would say - below €7,5 / $10 ?
In that price range, I would try out Southern Hemisphere wines. Great wine regions, but what they really excell in, is in making surprisingly good affordable wines. The quality never ceases to amaze me. I've had some fantastic wines at absolute bargain prices. With Chile and South Africa having a clear edge over Australia and Argentina.
The best wine tip ever must be: ask. Just ask your waiter, or the shop assistant, to help you in your choice. Well obviously not at a supermarket or an Argentinian steak restaurant, but in any decent place.
I would avoid supermarkets for bargain hunting. You may hit the jackpot, but more commonly you won't. Supermarkets are good if you already know which wine you are looking for. Else, go to a specialised shop, and simply ask for recommendations about what you are looking for. 'Hello. I am having Turkey and I am looking for a wine to go with it in the $10 price range' You'll end up paying, what, two euros extra a bottle compared to a supermarket. But you are assured of a good wine.
The Gato Negro from the opening post sounds like an excellent choice. There are also, surprise, great Bordeaux in this price bracket. You can get a fine Mouton Cadet below €10.
DemonArchangel
11-22-2007, 02:40
Chateau Lafite, 1899. :toff:
Sometimes, wines that old turn into vinegar in the bottle. :tongue2:
I was doing some searching for expensive wine and found this:
Bordeaux Red 1784 Lafite Rothschild 75cl Bottle £61,725.00
Bordeaux Red 1799 Lafite Rothschild 75cl Bottle £36,836.00
Bordeaux Red 1800 Lafite Rothschild 75cl Bottle £34,845.00
62 thousand pounds for a bottle of wine? ~:eek:
http://www.antique-wine.com/lafite.php?order=ASC&sort=format
Papewaio
11-22-2007, 06:39
Status symbol... just like having some badges on the front of a car adds $5... $10... $20,000.
Boyar Son
11-23-2007, 02:45
thanks guys.
I have a good amount of alcohol now. i look forward to buy more wine.
Another question:
Is european wine some of the best in the world? or do they have competition from chile?
answering that will affect future wine that i choose.
thanks!:sweatdrop:
Speaking of wine, my parents had a $70 bottle of wine today. Tasted a bit like olives and was strong. Not a bad wine.
To be completely honest,though, I like the usual $15-20 stuff we drink better.
Just goes to show, price isn't everyone.
Adrian II
11-23-2007, 09:18
thanks guys.
I have a good amount of alcohol now. i look forward to buy more wine.
Another question:
Is european wine some of the best in the world? or do they have competition from chile?
answering that will affect future wine that i choose.
thanks!:sweatdrop:Both Chile and South Africa produce excellent affordable wines. I remember drinking $10 Caberbets Sauvignons in Cape Town that could hold a candle to any $100 stuff I drank (on other people's expense, thank God during high-brow dinners etcetera) elsewhere. It may have been Stellenbosch or Mulderbosch, can't remember.
I think it is nonsense that any man should be an expert on wine rather than on anything else from music to literature to politics to history to sports. Chacun son truc (to each his own) as they say in France.
If money is an issue or if you are an 'easy drinker', just try the Cato Negro mentioned above or try a SA wine straight from the barrel as they are often surprisingly good and cheap. If one of those suits you, look no further.
Is european wine some of the best in the world? or do they have competition from chile?
Spanish rioja is pretty close to chili wine when it comes to taste. But why not stick with the californians? First watch 'Sideways' to get into the right mood.
Adrian II
11-23-2007, 09:56
Spanish rioja is pretty close to chili wine when it comes to taste. But why not stick with the californians? First watch 'Sideways' to get into the right mood.Nah, just come to The Neds and watch the 'Stellenbosch' soap. Entirely convincing. :yes:
:wall:
Is european wine some of the best in the world? or do they have competition from chile?
It depends on the wine, but if I understand the gist of what you're asking, the answer is no. Many, many parts of the world produce wine that is as good as, if not superior to, many European wines. These include California and Washington in the US (with some other states starting to produce some high quality vintages as well - I recently had a surprisingly good one from Colorado), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile and Argentina. Those are most of the 'major' wine producing nations now, but that does NOT mean that other countries do not produce good wine as well. The volume of high quality wine from other markets may be lower, but you can still get very nice bottles from unexpected places like Lebanon. At the same time, Europe produces plenty of cheap, low quality bottles. If I had to pick blindly, I would certainly choose a French wine over, say, a Greek one, but there are also some good Greek wines and some crappy French wines. When in doubt, ask the local expert for advice.
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