About racism, discrimination and intolerance of intolerance.

[Emperor Burakuku]

I just got back from school today and by chance, I got to see some neonazi and fascinst demonstrations on youtube. It really got me thinking. How come that in 2007, in EU, footbal players of different ethnicity or skin colour are insulted on stadions through appelatives like "monkey" or "banana eater". How come people are abused, swear at or beaten in the streets just because they are of different ethnicity or of different sexual orientation? Why are women still discriminated in some parts of the Globe? I'm not asking you for exact answers to these questions or definitions. I would like you to discuss the subject and to see what you guys think about racism and discrimination in general. And please be polite. Thanks.

I have to say I strongly agree with this guy here. Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Dbg7JQ_ww&feature=related

[Geoffrey S]

Might be better suited to the Backroom, this.

[Danest]

To put a period historical spin on it: I hear that the Romans didn't necessarily hate someone automatically just for having a darker skin color, even though they might still have believed that Romans were, of course, the mightiest culture. And I have read that Celts were often quite egalitarian (at least for their time and especially compared to the Greeks) in their treatment of women.

[geala]

It is a very interesting theme but do you really want to start it here? The answer has a lot to do with biological basics of the humans and even more with social, ideological, religious and historical fundamentals and developments. This is no easy stuff and could lead to many disaccords. The political correctness may prohibit to point to some reasons, some communities, some persons.

To give a very crude and basic answer from my point of view: Many people have problems with their own personality and need someone to segregate to feel better. The same is true for societies, religious communities and states. Sometimes special interests of special groups (e. g. the males, the rich, the poor, the leaders, the army, the traders, the believers, the teachers, the priests, the x-people, ...) are better supported by oppressing others.

[Emperor Burakuku]

To put a period historical spin on it: I hear that the Romans didn't necessarily hate someone automatically just for having a darker skin color.

I hear differently. Well I don't think that "hate" is the right word though. I'm thinking more of the Romans considering themselves as being superior to all others in most of human aspects (Romans were better soldiers, smarter because of their inventios, had superior culture to barbarians and easterners, etc) and this are indeed premises for racism and hate. The matter is very complicated still. Like I said, in 2007 we still have this social problem in an era in which information is accessed much easier and in wich we're supposed to have learned something from our past mistakes.

As for the Celts, as far as I know they had some discrepancies in their customs. See making libatio cups from enemies skulls versus taking care of old people and considering women equal to men (or almost). But I don't think that the Celts we're considering the Romans their equals. I don't think they liked them that much.

[Emperor Burakuku]

To give a very crude and basic answer from my point of view: Many people have problems with their own personality and need someone to segregate to feel better. The same is true for societies, religious communities and states.

I agree with you 100%. Plus that in many cases racism is learned at young ages. But what I am saying is that isn't that hard in 2007 to realise that what makes us different is not the coulour of our skin or the sexual preferences, etc. We're different because we're all humans. And being human means being different from all other humans. I would say that we're all the same because we're all different. Does it make any sense?

As for the disaccords I still belive that we can be polite and rational about it. I will try my best not to offend anyone, even people with more extreme/extremist beliefs. I just hope that we can learn something from each other.

[Treverer]

... if Eve hadn't eaten from the apple ...

Well, this sentence explains it all:

- a seductor, tempting Eve to
- break the rule and
- eat from forbidden fruit.

Meaning, IMHO there is always someone who prevents humanity to live in a kinda "Utopia". Take a look at the Communist Experiment in Russia et. al.

Yours,
Treverer

[Dayve]

In short, it's human nature and it'll never disappear. People are wary of those who are different from them. Doesn't matter what the difference is, can be culture, skin colour, nationality. I try not to be, but i myself am culturally intolerant you know, i do not like cultures that differ from our 'western culture'. I'm not racist by any means, just culturally intolerant.

That's why with these type of games i always feel most at home playing western cultures. I try to play as eastern factions but it's just not me... I feel as though i am betraying 'my people' if i conquer or defeat western nations such as Greece or Rome.

Funny really. :laugh4:

[Emperor Burakuku]

I was born in a comunist country so I know some stuff on the subject, but this is not about political doctrines. It's about racism and discrimination. I started this discution because it pissed me off that some people hate others but what pissed me off the most is the fact that I am pissed off. I am pissed off because I am intolerant to intolerance and this does not make me better. Maybe I am better than a racist lad who has fun beating up people of different nature just because they're different but still I am not at peace with myself. The more abuses I see out there the more angry I get and it seems that slowly this anger transform into hate. And I see myself becoming the monster in order to defeat the monster. And this is just wrong.

About the tread itself I don't understand why people are so afraid of discussing this subject. "Maybe you should take care with this sbject", "do you really want to bring this into discution?". Yes I do. This is reality, it happends here in EU and both in US (and allover the world). They're our friends that make racist remarks and we laugh but we don't realise that through this attitude we don't help anyone. So yes, I would like to discuss this subject because being silent doesn't make anything better over night. Some people would say "I am no racist, I don't have anything against black people or jews or no matter who". I am not saying we're all racist, don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that our silent attitude only makes thing worse and we don't realise it. We lack insight and tend to forget very soon. One of History's main purposes is to remind us of our mistakes and to help us prevent them. And trust me, when I see all this hate around me, it really gets me thinking. Is really the human race that primitive? Have we not learned anything all this time?

[Treverer]

Is really the human race that primitive?
AFAIK, yes.

Have we not learned anything all this time?
IMO, no.

[Emperor Burakuku]

In short, it's human nature and it'll never disappear. People are wary of those who are different from them. Doesn't matter what the difference is, can be culture, skin colour, nationality. I try not to be, but i myself am culturally intolerant you know, i do not like cultures that differ from our 'western culture'. I'm not racist by any means, just culturally intolerant.

That's why with these type of games i always feel most at home playing western cultures. I try to play as eastern factions but it's just not me... I feel as though i am betraying 'my people' if i conquer or defeat western nations such as Greece or Rome.

Funny really. :laugh4:

I feel exactly the same and this pisses me off because I realise it's all wrong. Persian culture for example is so vast and so beautiful, but yes, I still play as Rome or Makedonia unfortunately. Also the far east (China, Japan and Koreea) have such rich and incredible cultures! So many inventions were born there. But still Romans are my ancestors and therefore they are the best, right? It's just wrong mate.

[Horst Nordfink]

Because sometimes people are just scumbags.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with EB even remotely. It's an interesting discussion, but not for the EB subforum here (other subfora on this site are much more appropriate guys).